Jump to content

2020 Evaluation


Olympic Fan Darcy

Recommended Posts

Here we go again...second-guessing 2020. Jeez...shudda-cudda!!

#1 - No alpha US city wanted to run for 2020.

#2 - Tokyo and Madrid still bettered Chicago in the last round. So how could the USA do better for 2020?? :blink:

Further, #3 - they will never award consecutive SOGs to South and North America.

U're such a whiner, Athens.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 86
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Here we go again...second-guessing 2020. Jeez...shudda-cudda!!

#1 - No alpha US city wanted to run for 2020.

#2 - Tokyo and Madrid still bettered Chicago in the last round. So how could the USA do better for 2020?? :blink:

Further, #3 - they will never award consecutive SOGs to South and North America.

U're such a whiner, Athens.

He does make a valid point

there were some american cities that wanted it although not massive.

in 2016 tokyo and madrid were better but now spain is in a poor economic state and japan is still reeling from the earthquake/tsunami/nucleur explosion etc. tokyo might have a chance as might istanbul but madrid and rome are in very poor economic states and arent a good pick. If there was an american bid it would have been up there with the others unlike chicago was with 2016.

And seriously picking on his personality calling him a whiner, dont pick on someone just argue no need to be rude to someone

Link to post
Share on other sites

there were some american cities that wanted it although not massive.

Ummmm, yeah. Tulsa & Vegas. Woopie! NONE of the U.S. ALPHA cities wanted to bid, though. And R some of you guys already forgetting that there's still NO revenue deal! So how do all these things add up to "all 'signs' were pointing to USA 2020, no doubt about it".

At this point in time 4 years ago in the 2016 race, "all signs" were pointing to USA 2016, but look how that one turned out. It's EASY to say that now about 2020, but there certainly wouldn't have been any guarantees. What's happening right now in these 2020 bidding countries & cities (& South Africa opting out is neither here nor there) could be an all different picture come September 2013 when the 2020 vote takes place. And Tokyo & Japan are already bouncing back from their earthquake/tsumani from earlier in the year.

And I don't see how London 2012 weakens Europe's chances. That still didn't stop Madrid from being in the final 2016 round with Rio. That still didn't stop London snagging 2012 despite Athens 2004, & the IOC overwhelming chose PyeongChang 2018 to try & clear the way for Europe 2020. They certainly didn't do that with the U.S. in mind. Plus, as has been mentioned many times here before, 2 consecutive Summer Olympic Games in the Americas' were highly unlikely to be given by the Eurocentric IOC.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And seriously picking on his personality calling him a whiner, dont pick on someone just argue no need to be rude to someone

I can't stand namby-pamby, indecisive POVs and I am so tired of his tunnel vision, wanting the 'summer only' for the US. Truly NOT viable.

Of course, if everything is NOT certain, then why bother posting here at all...if all you will post is...in effect..."maybe", "possibly," "not sure"?? What does it really add to the discussion? :blink:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ummmm, yeah. Tulsa & Vegas. Woopie! NONE of the U.S. ALPHA cities wanted to bid, though. And R some of you guys already forgetting that there's still NO revenue deal! So how do all these things add up to "all 'signs' were pointing to USA 2020, no doubt about it".

At this point in time 4 years ago in the 2016 race, "all signs" were pointing to USA 2016, but look how that one turned out. It's EASY to say that now about 2020, but there certainly wouldn't have been any guarantees. What's happening right now in these 2020 bidding countries & cities (& South Africa opting out is neither here nor there) could be an all different picture come September 2013 when the 2020 vote takes place. And Tokyo & Japan are already bouncing back from their earthquake/tsumani from earlier in the year.

And I don't see how London 2012 weakens Europe's chances. That still didn't stop Madrid from being in the final 2016 round with Rio. That still didn't stop London snagging 2012 despite Athens 2004, & the IOC overwhelming chose PyeongChang 2018 to try & clear the way for Europe 2020. They certainly didn't do that with the U.S. in mind. Plus, as has been mentioned many times here before, 2 consecutive Summer Olympic Games in the Americas' were highly unlikely to be given by the Eurocentric IOC.

I did say they werent massive but still a bid nonetheless, and if were talking of ridiculous bid cities not alpha, lille 2004, leipzeg 2012, kuala lumpur and seville in 2008. There are MANY incapable past city bids that are worse then some of the potential US cities.

And i didnt say USA would win (if i did i apologize my mistake) i say they wouldve had A CHANCE! they wouldnt have been knocked out first round they would've been a good bid but probably not won i understand that

And we are saying IF they were too bid. Not saying they would've just sayign if they did.

Yes tokyo might come back by 2013.

I wasnt saying London bid affects any european chances, i said that Madrid and Rome are in poor economic countries and THAT will affect there bid.

I can't stand namby-pamby, indecisive POVs and I am so tired of his tunnel vision, wanting the 'summer only' for the US. Truly NOT viable.

Of course, if everything is NOT certain, then why bother posting here at all...if all you will post is...in effect..."maybe", "possibly," "not sure"?? What does it really add to the discussion? :blink:

And i guess posting rude comments towards people adds to this discussion?

It reflects on the bidding and what could've happened, i myself find it interesting, however i dont find rude comments towards people interesting at all

Link to post
Share on other sites

I did say they werent massive but still a bid nonetheless, and if were talking of ridiculous bid cities not alpha, lille 2004, leipzeg 2012, kuala lumpur and seville in 2008. There are MANY incapable past city bids that are worse then some of the potential US cities.

And i didnt say USA would win (if i did i apologize my mistake) i say they wouldve had A CHANCE! they wouldnt have been knocked out first round they would've been a good bid but probably not won i understand that

And we are saying IF they were too bid. Not saying they would've just sayign if they did.

Yes tokyo might come back by 2013.

I wasnt saying London bid affects any european chances, i said that Madrid and Rome are in poor economic countries and THAT will affect there bid.

They weren't even "bids". Again, look at who they were from. Tulsa & Las Vegas? Please, Tulsa was/is a complete joke. And Las Vegas really was NOT an "official" bid from the city but from a local, unprofessional group. These so-called bids did not have "potential". The USOC really didn't have anything substantial to bo by. Not to mention that they're still trying to work out a new revenue deal with the IOC. So the USOC acted the only way the could, & that was not being able to bid.

And I know that you didn't say that London 2012 hinders 2020 European chances. That was for someone else who said it in the thread.

And so who is the premium as$wipe to give me a negative point before. What did I say that wasn't true or wrong. Instead of hiding behind your "marks", Y don't you come out & put your 2 cents in if you disagree, instead of being downright petty. It's probably memorabilia. I know he likes to play that petty game with many, & he's probably the one that did all week to my account. :-P

Link to post
Share on other sites

He does make a valid point

there were some american cities that wanted it although not massive.

in 2016 tokyo and madrid were better but now spain is in a poor economic state and japan is still reeling from the earthquake/tsunami/nucleur explosion etc. tokyo might have a chance as might istanbul but madrid and rome are in very poor economic states and arent a good pick. If there was an american bid it would have been up there with the others unlike chicago was with 2016.

And seriously picking on his personality calling him a whiner, dont pick on someone just argue no need to be rude to someone

Thank for the defense, Darcy, but it's not necessary. I have Baron on ignore and don't see his posts unless someone quotes him. He's just being his usual provocative self. I actually said many times that I didn't think the US should bid for 2020. Now I'm thinking I was wrong. I find it interesting the way the race is now shaping up. No lament, much less whining. Just intrigue.

Link to post
Share on other sites

They weren't even "bids". Again, look at who they were from. Tulsa & Las Vegas? Please, Tulsa was/is a complete joke. And Las Vegas really was NOT an "official" bid from the city but from a local, unprofessional group. These so-called bids did not have "potential". The USOC really didn't have anything substantial to bo by. Not to mention that they're still trying to work out a new revenue deal with the IOC. So the USOC acted the only way the could, & that was not being able to bid.

And I know that you didn't say that London 2012 hinders 2020 European chances. That was for someone else who said it in the thread.

And so who is the premium as$wipe to give me a negative point before. What did I say that wasn't true or wrong. Instead of hiding behind your "marks", Y don't you come out & put your 2 cents in if you disagree, instead of being downright petty. It's probably memorabilia. I know he likes to play that petty game with many, & he's probably the one that did all week to my account. :-P

If they did bid they would've had potential, they would have been kind of succesful.

im confused about the and so who is the premium as$wipe to give me a negative point?

Thank for the defense, Darcy, but it's not necessary. I have Baron on ignore and don't see his posts unless someone quotes him. He's just being his usual provocative self. I actually said many times that I didn't think the US should bid for 2020. Now I'm thinking I was wrong. I find it interesting the way the race is now shaping up. No lament, much less whining. Just intrigue.

Yes it is interesting how its panning out

Im rather new to this forum but from a few threads ive seen, some people on here are racist, mean and target on others.

hope you ignore him

you dont seem as a whiner to me anyway :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

NONE of the U.S. ALPHA cities wanted to bid, though. And R some of you guys already forgetting that there's still NO revenue deal! So how do all these things add up to "all 'signs' were pointing to USA 2020, no doubt about it".

First, there's no proof that Tulsa and Vegas were the only interested cities. That's supposition -- not fact.

The revenue deal is a legitimate problem and one I continue to reference frequently.

I do not think all signs were ever pointing to USA 2020.

Had the US resolved the revenue deal, had they presented a respectable bid --even from LA or Texas, I believe they could've been a major player in the 2020 race. I did not believe this to be true at the time of the bid deadline, but recent economic news has changed the picture considerably.

Link to post
Share on other sites

First, there's no proof that Tulsa and Vegas were the only interested cities. That's supposition -- not fact.

The revenue deal is a legitimate problem and one I continue to reference frequently.

I do not think all signs were ever pointing to USA 2020.

Had the US resolved the revenue deal, had they presented a respectable bid --even from LA or Texas, I believe they could've been a major player in the 2020 race. I did not believe this to be true at the time of the bid deadline, but recent economic news has changed the picture considerably.

Agreed they could've had a succesful bid, but the deal didnt work out, if it did the race would've been much mroe interesting but it already is anyway

Link to post
Share on other sites

First, there's no proof that Tulsa and Vegas were the only interested cities. That's supposition -- not fact.

The revenue deal is a legitimate problem and one I continue to reference frequently.

I do not think all signs were ever pointing to USA 2020.

Had the US resolved the revenue deal, had they presented a respectable bid --even from LA or Texas, I believe they could've been a major player in the 2020 race. I did not believe this to be true at the time of the bid deadline, but recent economic news has changed the picture considerably.

The 'fact' that no one else, besides Tulsa & unofficially Dallas N Vegas, raised their hand is proof enough. We've all been through this (you, me, Quaker, baron, etc) multiple times already. You were holding on to hope, while the rest of us were merely looking at things at face value.

I do agree, though, that a good bid from L.A. could've been a major player, since they were the more likely of the Alphas to have given a shot despite everything else but they didn't. And I know that you didn't think that all signs were pointing to USA 2020. That was someone else who said that in the thread.

And just as recent economic news has changed the picture considerably since the 2020 bid deadline just merely over 2 months ago, who's to say 2 years from now what the picture will be like when the 2020 vote takes place. The campaign ride has barely begun & like with virtually every other Olympic bid race, its going to be a roller coaster of a ride, & particularly this race, 'til voting day.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It reflects on the bidding and what could've happened, i myself find it interesting, however i dont find rude comments towards people interesting at all

Hey, anything happens here. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. It does get very passionate here--in case you haven't noticed.

Yeah, I know Athens has me on IGNORE...but I don't have him on IGNORE. That way, I can rebut his points w/o him coming back!! Too bad, he's missing a lot of good stuff! :P

Link to post
Share on other sites
I do agree, though, that a good bid from L.A. could've been a major player, since they were the more likely of the Alphas to have given a shot despite everything else but they didn't.
No offense FYI but you need to get you fact straight. LA was interested and told the USOC that they were ready incase they wanted to do a last minute bid. there was even an article on Gamesbids about it.

on another note the USA wasn't a lock prior to the bidding process for 2020 but they had a better shot for 2020 than they did for 2012 and 2016. I don't understand why people cant see that how bad the NYC bid was compared to Paris Madrid and London for 2012 and how much of an impact an argument such as "This continent has never hosted the games" can be. With an argument like that it really doesn't matter how good your bid is because the reality is that only says you can host the games whenever we need a safe city (Like now for instance). I really think the USOC and North America in General should wait for the 2032 Games to bid for another Summer. 2024 and 2024 are almost a lock for South Africa and Europe given that an Asian or Middle Eastern country is definitely going to win 2020.

Link to post
Share on other sites

No offense FYI but you need to get you fact straight. LA was interested and told the USOC that they were ready incase they wanted to do a last minute bid. there was even an article on Gamesbids about it.

on another note the USA wasn't a lock prior to the bidding process for 2020 but they had a better shot for 2020 than they did for 2012 and 2016. I don't understand why people cant see that how bad the NYC bid was compared to Paris Madrid and London for 2012 and how much of an impact an argument such as "This continent has never hosted the games" can be. With an argument like that it really doesn't matter how good your bid is because the reality is that only says you can host the games whenever we need a safe city (Like now for instance). I really think the USOC and North America in General should wait for the 2032 Games to bid for another Summer. 2024 and 2024 are almost a lock for South Africa and Europe given that an Asian or Middle Eastern country is definitely going to win 2020.

I quite agree with you. Even tho I think 2020 is really up in the air until the last minute when it'll come down to Tokyo, Rome or Istanbul. It's really where the Madrid and Doha votes switch to in Round 3, that will decide 2020.

And unless RSA/Durban stumbles or recuses again, I think they have their X-hairs set on 2024. How can they not? They have no excuse then. They have a whole virgin continent behind them. How can the IOC ignore that?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never said that Los Angeles wasn't interested. In fact, they most always are interested. I've always said that outta the Alpha cities they would be the ones to come to first base & play. Whether or not the USOC felt compelled enough to move forward with them is another story.

The real thing here is, that some liked to have hoped that Chicago & New York were going to come out full swing & play Olympic footsy again when it really wasn't in the cards. New York wouldn't have been able to come up with a viable bid & Chicago was just too shunned to try again so soon.

And yes, eveyone knew that New York's 2012 bid (particularly at the crucial end of the campaign, when the West-side stadium plan literally imploded) wasn't going to stack up against it's European rivals. The IOC was hell-bent on Europe for 2012 & that's what they got.

For 2016, however, Chicago was a sound & credible bid. And continental rotation was in it's favor. Early on in the race Rio was almost a non-starter. Afterall, the IOC didn't even short-list the Brazilians for 2012 nor for 2004. Not to mention, some viewed Brazil as already having their plate full with the 2014 World Cup to handle yet another mega event merely 2 years later.

Plus, the IOC doesn't just award the Games on the premise of "this continent has never hosted the Games before". Yes, it's an elment of leverage but an argument like that does not "solely" get you an Olympics. You at least need to have a credible & viable bid, & that didn't become evident of Rio until the Final Evaluation Board made it's visits & Rio then started to get the momentum & viewed that they could deliver on their promises.

Link to post
Share on other sites

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, I SAID OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN THAT I THOUGHT THE US SHOULD'VE SAT OUT 2020. I WAS NOT HOLDING OUT HOPE. I SIMPLY THOUGHT THERE WASN'T ENOUGH EVIDENCE TO DECLARE THE MATTER CLOSED A MONTH BEFORE THE DEADLINE. KEEP INVENTING FACTS TO SUIT YOUR POSITION, BUT QUIT MISREPRESENTING MINE.

LAY OFF.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What facts am I "inventing". Besides, you're the one who keeps brining it up. You say there wasn't enough "evidence" to declare the matter closed. I say there wasn't enough to declare that something worthwhile was going to appear out of thin air in such a short timeframe.

It was delusional for anyone to think that something "respectable" (which is the word you used) was going to come out a MONTH before the 2020 deadline considering all the other tangible circumstances. I've always been an agreement that had something was coming to fruition at such extremely short notice that it would've came from Los Angeles. So that's not inventing or mispresenting anything anymore than you do with other posters.

And really. If you can't be civil, then go shove it. "My 'ego' does not need or desire" your provocative crap.

Link to post
Share on other sites

At the moment i have one city that i want to win 2020.

BUT, i am going to treat the 2020 race like i am a member of the IOC and over time i will assess all the bids and see whether come vote time i have stayed with my original choice or have been persuaded by another city.

Link to post
Share on other sites

At the moment i have one city that i want to win 2020.

BUT, i am going to treat the 2020 race like i am a member of the IOC and over time i will assess all the bids and see whether come vote time i have stayed with my original choice or have been persuaded by another city.

Oh, very sensible. Is your current favourite Rome by any chance? Or are you not going to tell and instead remain a little tease? lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

What facts am I "inventing". Besides, you're the one who keeps brining it up. You say there wasn't enough "evidence" to declare the matter closed. I say there wasn't enough to declare that something worthwhile was going to appear out of thin air in such a short timeframe.

It was delusional for anyone to think that something "respectable" (which is the word you used) was going to come out a MONTH before the 2020 deadline considering all the other tangible circumstances. I've always been an agreement that had something was coming to fruition at such extremely short notice that it would've came from Los Angeles. So that's not inventing or mispresenting anything anymore than you do with other posters.

And really. If you can't be civil, then go shove it. "My 'ego' does not need or desire" your provocative crap.

What was so uncivil? The caps? Accusing you of inventing facts? You are. You continue to say no qualified cities wanted 2020 -- and you simply do not know that for a fact. Furthermore you accuse me of "holding out hope" for Games I didn't think the US should even bid for. Then you say I was "declaring" that a bid would materialize out of thin air when I never said any such thing. So who is being uncivil and provocative? I'm simply defending myself. You were the one who decided to bring up the old conversation.

My sole point was that if the US had bid for 2020 they might've actually had a chance-- something I wouldn't have believed prior to the deadline. As it stands now, I think Tokyo's sitting pretty...

Link to post
Share on other sites

What facts am I "inventing". Besides, you're the one who keeps brining it up. You say there wasn't enough "evidence" to declare the matter closed. I say there wasn't enough to declare that something worthwhile was going to appear out of thin air in such a short timeframe.

It was delusional for anyone to think that something "respectable" (which is the word you used) was going to come out a MONTH before the 2020 deadline considering all the other tangible circumstances. I've always been an agreement that had something was coming to fruition at such extremely short notice that it would've came from Los Angeles. So that's not inventing or mispresenting anything anymore than you do with other posters.

And really. If you can't be civil, then go shove it. "My 'ego' does not need or desire" your provocative crap.

Baku and Doha came out less then a month before the dates.

Baku in fact was 1 day before, although it may not be the most respectable bids it still happened less then a month

Oh and from what ive seen its not him thats not being civil, its you.

I don't understand how Rome is a possibility anymore.

Although they are claiming to be safe i highly doubt that the IOC will be trusting , Tokyo or makybe even doha (3rd place)

What was so uncivil? The caps? Accusing you of inventing facts? You are. You continue to say no qualified cities wanted 2020 -- and you simply do not know that for a fact. Furthermore you accuse me of "holding out hope" for Games I didn't think the US should even bid for. Then you say I was "declaring" that a bid would materialize out of thin air when I never said any such thing. So who is being uncivil and provocative? I'm simply defending myself. You were the one who decided to bring up the old conversation.

My sole point was that if the US had bid for 2020 they might've actually had a chance-- something I wouldn't have believed prior to the deadline. As it stands now, I think Tokyo's sitting pretty...

Agreed with you there! Tokyo is a high favourite with Istanbul 2nd. Only reason istanbul is second in my opinion is the euro crisis whereas Tokyo is sort of away from that

Link to post
Share on other sites

Baku and Doha came out less then a month before the dates.

Baku in fact was 1 day before, although it may not be the most respectable bids it still happened less then a month

Oh and from what ive seen its not him thats not being civil, its you.

For staters, Baku & Doha are in countries where they are the ONLY realistic cities in their countries for a bid. Whereas their NOC's wouldn't have to spend a lot of time with a domestic bid process to try & find a suitable city like in countries like the United States, where there are potentially at least half a dozen cities that the USOC could choose from for a bid. There was NO way the USOC would've been able to perform such a time consuming process in less than a month. It took the USOC over a YEAR in their 2016 campaign to finally come out with Chicago as their 2016 candidate.

Not to mention Baku & Doha are also in less than democratric countries where they can push through such grandeur things like Olympic bids with more ease. In the United States, things have to go through due process. You can't just throw something together at a whim simply because a small few would desire to. Doesn't work like that here. Look at Italy, too. It took CONI a whole year to finally declare Rome as their 2020 candidate & forward them to the IOC. You're comparing apples & oranges here.

And seriously. I'm the one not being civil?! :huh: Please enlighten me! Because I told him to shove it? If someone is yelling & having a fit it's only natural to say something. Especially when it's not the first time that he's done it to me. I at least didn't have a fit about it. So I find your accusation completely absurd & quite offensive! You should just mind your own business & stick to the thread.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...