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Wow did not see that coming. Does this foreshadow a Madrid win (ie. third place wins).

Or it could show, yet again, that the IOC prefers a bid with some regenerative potential that they can take some credit for. In which case Madrid is doooomed!

I understand from some quick reading on the subject that BA's plan is centred around a more run-down district of the city, whilst Glasgow's bid was all about legacy use for CWG venues in already regenerated areas.

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Ok, I'm new to this forum and reading this thread I'm "greeted" by the comments of this "hermano" Dannyel, who has been posting at will more-than-unrespectful propaganda against my country. I'm upset not to say infuriated by how everyone has let this person do as he pleases here.

Some hilarious comments he has done though, speaking about the mini-Falklands 2012 conflict like it was a big issue for us :lol: the King of Spain not coming here(who cares??!!), or Argentina "being isolated" internationally (hahaha) Also, he speaks like Cristina will stay forever when it's 100% sure she and all her crew is out in 2015 and her statistics, currency problems and what not, now you're happy with that, "hermano"?

And I'm not even gonna comment about his complete ignorance about our political history...

PS: I could start a posting war about many brazilian internal problems (who are many, though obviously not as much as ours), but other, more respectful brazilians don't deserve that at all. Also, I would be lowering to this subject's level by doing that.

PS2: Cheers to any other Brazilian brother here, I'm sure you will pull an extraordinary games in 2016 which I hope anyone enjoys (I'll be attending too).

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Just a bunch of replies to this "person":

-I find laughable all your comments about the Falklands: 1) it's not something Cristina made out of her mind. The argentine constitution (which Cristina didn't make) states that sovereignty over them is an inalienable claim, so she's just abiding to the law. 2) war or any kind of armed measure is out of discussion, only diplomatic way is being and will be pursued on this matter. 3) No one is blocking british ships, not at all. Only those with the falklands flag can't dock. 4) Argentinians don't give too much care about that to be sincere, and neither the government is obsessed with that. Only international media and anti-government media of argentina wanted to make it seem like it was a big deal (because they obviously want to make Cristina look like she's crazy) 5) yeah, the islands themselves are useless, but the water sorrounding them isn't. And the british government are trying to play smartasses by silently expanding their water territory in the zone. It's in truth a dispute for resources, genius duh

-Don't know why is so important about the King of Spain not coming here, on the other hand... Hillary Clinton paid a visit (OUTSIDE her Agenda while visiting other southamerican countries) in 2010. I don't know your opinion, but I think the US secretary of state is a more relevant visit than a decorative political figure like the King. But yeah, we're out of the world...

-He says BA is "falling apart, literally", where, when, how? yeah, because in Brazil there aren't any rundonwn places, right? that concept is alien to you.

-I don't know if it was on this thread or another, but he complained that when he visited BA there were a lot of strikers. I really don't see that as a "negative aspect", it's the people's right to protest as much as it is in Brazil.

-Still waiting those expulsions from IMF and G-20 ;)

-You told the chilean user "why are you defending your worst enemies?", worst enemies? according to who? only to you and Pinochet it seems...

-The media law is by far the best (and probably only "completely right") thing Cristina has done. If you criticise that, then it is evident how you low moral quality is. Media monopoly is the bane of every democracy and has had terrible consecuences throughout argentine history.

-I would take all day to tell you about political history of my country, but I fear your philistine mind is way too small to take that much information in such a little amount of time. So I will only tell you that Néstor Kirchner's government (2003-2007) was hands down the best of all argentine history in every possible aspect (not that it was something too hard to achieve given our record but still remarkable). His wife clearly hasn't been up to his standard (you can see how many people that was at his side deflected to Sergio Massa's side nowadays). So, peronism/justicialism hasn't been the problem of the country at all, the problem are always individuals.

Much more things to answer to this Danny dude, but I'm a bit tired for now.

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-On the Fragata Libertad incident: I find rather sweet how you just call "creditors" the NML Capital group with venue in Cayman Islands. More like vicious international loan sharks to me! Our government has being conducting themselves like idiots at U.S. courts, I accept that. But still, you're on the side of international loan sharks who feast on distressed debt from developing countries?

-Subway: New stations have been opened and will continue to be opened. New trains were bought and are operating now in Linea A. Still other 5 lines to go, but don't worry, by 2018 I think you'll be able to sit your ass on a comfy padded seat with perfume on the air in all the lines.

-Can someone tell me what's the so called "terrible disaster" you saw at Copa America 2011?, I really wanna know. River was the only stadium that wasn't remodeled, but my guess is that it was for political reasons. As you may know, the national and the city government aren't on the same boat politically speaking, so the national government is not likely to provide funding for things in Buenos Aires. These days is much more common to see sport facilities being built outside Buenos Aires. But, still then, they managed to put aside differences for the YOG bid and will work together for this project (which is much more relevant than a petty copa america). At least until 2015, when both governments will change.

-I ask you, seriously, why you think IOC awarded YOG and the IOC session to Buenos Aires if we are in ruins, don't have money, everything is done badly, etc? If it were for pure organizational skills then Glasgow should have won this easily, yet they were axed the first. If it were for the same reason then Rio should have been axed the first when facing Chicago, Tokyo, Madrid, yet they weren't, and won. Could you explain to me all this weird phenomena?

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^^ Some supporters literally destroyed part of the final match stadium because a soccer loss of the host team few weeks before the Cup (and in the final match day, the stadium was not entirely rebuilt).

Photographers had cameras stoled INSIDE the field.

La Plata new stadium (the only new stadium) had more sand than grass, and was called a "Beach Soccer Stadium".

Big deals for a country aiming to host major international events.

Here genius, tell me what problem you have with the grass on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOOgOhPMeYM and compare with the Maracana pitch the day of the confed cup final: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CJ1e7L6s2A

Do you notice any difference? I don't. So stop whining about non existent issues.

See how the ball bounces and runs, completely normal, and as you can see it didn't have anything to do with the Brazil team not being able to win. Also, it was mid winter during that tournament and La Plata is really cold on that season. You cannot expect the pitch to be in 100% perfect conditions.

About the robberies, it was said at the time that it was an international band with accreditations that steals at many sport events like this, not only in Argentina.

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Ok, now we have ag Argentine around... This will start to get funny...

Here genius, tell me what problem you have with the grass on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOOgOhPMeYM and compare with the Maracana pitch the day of the confed cup final: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CJ1e7L6s2A

http://esporte.ig.com.br/futebol/exclusivo+veja+o+buraco+onde+o+brasil+caiu+na+copa+america/n1597087212367.html
Sand painted of green in La Plata Stadium, complains from Brazil and Paraguay teams.



Do you notice any difference? I don't. So stop whining about non existent issues.

I'm not whining about "non existent issues"...
Take a look:

From El Pais Uruguay, in Spanish, to make my point very clear, "hermanito"
http://historico.ovaciondigital.com.uy/110719/copamerica-580925/copaamerica/llenaron-la-cancha-de-arena-por-los-pozos/http://www.estadao.com.br/noticias/esportes,vila-da-eliminacao-do-brasil-marca-do-penalti-passa-por-reparos-em-la-plata,747073,0.htm
"The criticism over the sandy pitch of Estadio Unico does not stop"
"Two-hundred roles in the grass were covered with sand and painted green" (!!!)

A image worths more than a thousand words:
Picture from EL MUNDO - SPAIN
1311097728_0.jpg
http://www.elmundo.es/america/2011/07/19/deportes/1311097728.html
"quedó claro que no está en buenas condiciones, hay muchos agujeros, la hierba se desprende con facilidad y aparece demasiada arena"
Not only Brazilians complaining since we, thankfully, don't speak Spanish.

Also, it was mid winter during that tournament and La Plata is really cold on that season. You cannot expect the pitch to be in 100% perfect conditions.

I'm not used to La Plata weather, Argentines must be used to it and should prepare the stadium for it.
In fact, winter weather places provides better grass, ask Europe. They know how to keep perfect grass with winter conditions.

About the robberies, it was said at the time that it was an international band with accreditations that steals at many sport events like this, not only in Argentina.

Whatever the reason, the robberies happened and it was considered a shame, even by the Argentine media:
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1392449-los-robos-a-periodistas-el-otro-record-de-la-copa-america

Meanwhile not a single camera was stole during the Confederations Cup, nor in the stands nor inside the field. What happened in Copa America is unacceptable even if it was only one case. But the fact, it were SEVERAL CASES.

So, we have facts:

The Estadio Unico in La Plata were not in ideal conditions for a tournament like Copa America.

Cameras were stolen inside the field. Security and organization failed miserably.

Edited by DannyelBrazil
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-On the Fragata Libertad incident: I find rather sweet how you just call "creditors" the NML Capital group with venue in Cayman Islands. More like vicious international loan sharks to me! Our government has being conducting themselves like idiots at U.S. courts, I accept that. But still, you're on the side of international loan sharks who feast on distressed debt from developing countries?

Simple like that: why make business with this people? You get the money from them, you must pay. If you don't pay, you get in problems.

The same with the Club of Paris or other Argentine creditors...

It's not me who puts the risk-Argentina index in the heights, it's your government.

This is not of my concern. You guys should be aware about what your government do with your money.

-Subway: New stations have been opened and will continue to be opened. New trains were bought and are operating now in Linea A. Still other 5 lines to go, but don't worry, by 2018 I think you'll be able to sit your ass on a comfy padded seat with perfume on the air in all the lines.

The subway of Buenos Aires still stinks. All trains of BA have "opened windows"!!! This is dangerous, for God sake!

And what about wagons with doors that are open manually by the passanger (makes me laugh)???

I saw at least 3 stations in Downtown with big infiltation problems. They are so humid that they are falling in parts. I have pictures from my last visit do Buenos Aires. I don't think I need to post it here.

The newer subway wagon you guys have are Alstoms made in Sao Paulo in the 90s... In Sao Paulo they are the older wagons and been replaced already.

Not to mention part of buses fleet of Buenos Aires that looks like something from "That 70's Show".

01colectivo.jpgba-bus-scooter-traffic.jpg

I must confess, I like the style, but it can't be serious these 30-year old buses are in major lines of Buenos Aires transit...

Did I say any lie?

-Can someone tell me what's the so called "terrible disaster" you saw at Copa America 2011?, (...) At least until 2015, when both governments will change.

Copa America was a disaster. Check the media inside your country, outside your country. We watched it in TV.

"The government will change". The world hopes for this since first Perón election in the ancient times...

-I ask you, seriously, why you think IOC awarded YOG and the IOC session to Buenos Aires if we are in ruins, don't have money, everything is done badly, etc? If it were for pure organizational skills then Glasgow should have won this easily, yet they were axed the first. If it were for the same reason then Rio should have been axed the first when facing Chicago, Tokyo, Madrid, yet they weren't, and won. Could you explain to me all this weird phenomena?

First, Buenos Aires must thank Rio for opening the South American frontier to IOC. For IOC and South America relations, there is a Before-Rio election and After-Rio election.

Rio won for several reasons: timing, achievable project, economic moment of Brazil, geopolitics (curiously, Buenos Aires would fail in every single topic of this list, but otherwise, you won!)

Honestly, I still can not understand why in the hell IOC gave Buenos Aires the YOGs. Maybe if they are considering YOG as some "second tier" event, we can reach some light for the questioning...

About IOC Congress, any big city in the planet with a Hilton hotel could host a congress like this. Not a milestone for me.

Edited by DannyelBrazil
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Hey everyone, cool down! :) Brazilians & Argentines can get on, look at how Neymar & Messi link up at Barcelona :P There is no doubt at all that Brazil is better prepared for an Olympics than Argentina, but that's part of what the YOG is all about. It gives countries that may not otherwise have had a chance to prove that they are capable of hosting Olympic competition, & if 2018 goes well, why shouldn't BA bid for the main event? And here's an idea: Danny, why not try to visit Buenos Aires in 2018? You never know, you might be surprised at what you see. Same for LDOG, you might be surprised by Brazil if you visit. You could even meet up & make peace. Now that would be the Olympic ideal in action. :)

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La Plata pitch was bad in the latter stage of the tournament, yes, and fortunately it wasn't used in the final, but it was still only one of the many stadiums, most of which were in good conditions to play. I don't know why La Plata was that bad, maybe due to lack of sunlight or a more humid climate because it's near the coast. South Africa also had a couple of bad pitches in 2010 in the rain affected cities at the coast.

In terms of Buenos Aires infrastructure, I can't compare to Brazil, but I can say that Santiago's metro is like another world compared to Buenos Aires' Subte. Buenos Aires transport system is much cheaper for the user though because of government subsidies. There have been also some improvements, like modern Chinese wagons in the line A, that don't have opening windows unlike Danny says. The stations are decrepit and lacking in elevators and stuff like that, there isn't enough capacity and delays are frequent, thus making journeys in rush hour very uncomfortable. I have seen some improvements also like new stations and extensions, unified tickets (at last!) so Danny has some point with his critique but he seems to exaggerate a bit.

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La Plata pitch was bad in the latter stage of the tournament, yes, and fortunately it wasn't used in the final, but it was still only one of the many stadiums, most of which were in good conditions to play. I don't know why La Plata was that bad, maybe due to lack of sunlight or a more humid climate because it's near the coast. South Africa also had a couple of bad pitches in 2010 in the rain affected cities at the coast.

In terms of Buenos Aires infrastructure, I can't compare to Brazil, but I can say that Santiago's metro is like another world compared to Buenos Aires' Subte. Buenos Aires transport system is much cheaper for the user though because of government subsidies. There have been also some improvements, like modern Chinese wagons in the line A, that don't have opening windows unlike Danny says. The stations are decrepit and lacking in elevators and stuff like that, there isn't enough capacity and delays are frequent, thus making journeys in rush hour very uncomfortable. I have seen some improvements also like new stations and extensions, unified tickets (at last!) so Danny has some point with his critique but he seems to exaggerate a bit.

Reindeer, where are you from? you seem to have your fair share of travel across America.

Yes, of course he exaggerates everything, as the ultra-nationalistic bordering-xenophobic he is (because yes, it's xenophobia, the point he's trying to prove is that argentinians in general are idiots and can't do anything right). Notice how he also says "thanks god we don't speak spanish" (what is he implying???)

And lol he says we bought 90's chinese train models, who cares if we don't have the latest? the thing is they are fully functional, secure, keep a good temperature and are fast enough.

New trains to be bought for 2014: http://www.infonews.com/2013/09/23/sociedad-99232-en-2014-la-linea-sarmiento-tendra-25-trenes-nuevos-hechos-en-china.php

BTW I loved how he picked the worst lines for the buses pics :rolleyes:

About the creditors again: this shady group claims rights over distressed debt took in 2001 (when the country was really falling apart), is not that the current government ever wanted to have to deal with them. The government has been trying to argue why these people shouldn't be payed on U.S. courts, but failed because of stupidity + probably political influences behind of judge Thomas Griesa.

And lol, you can't compare them with the Club de Paris or IMF, it's a whole other level of negotiation with those.

Don't be mistaken, I'm not stupid, I know the country has a lot of problems. The statistics issue is completely true, the government is lying (well, to be more precise, they use methods of calculation that they know will give them the results they want to show). The currency problem is also a big issue (though even then 220.000 argentinians have asked for World Cup tickets, second only to brazilians themselves, so it's not like we cannot go outside the country).

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Heck, I can't even think of why he visited BA twice if the place is so disgusting for him. Maybe next time he should try nature tourism in the south or something.

What a mysterious world we live in, a bid backed by the world's worst country according to Danny wins over bids backed by the best ever olympics organizers and the second largest economy of south america (also according to him). Too mysterious indeed.

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Αrgentina is a great country with wonderful people and deserves such a competition. I hope to see Argentina to reach Spain as sports power soon...

Well, I think that's too far away yet :P but never before has sport got so much support in my country as nowadays.

More support and scolarships for athletes than ever and national training centers are improving their infraestructure. It's hard, because we come from decades of 0 support for everything but step by step everything is improving in sport. We can't go from 0 to the highest place in the world in just 5-10 years, of course.

For example, see the new zealand all blacks paying a visit to the CENARD gym (that is, the state's sport centre gym) during their trip to BA last month: http://deportes.gov.ar/ar/site/noticias/notafull.php?id=2169

“El CENARD es un lugar muy cómodo, de elite", resaltó MacCaw. Enseguida, su compañero Wyatt Crockett, agregó: “Esta es una infraestructura de calidad, con un equipamiento muy bueno”.

The All Blacks, the pinnacle of a sport in which gym training is almost everything said this. So we are far from "being in ruins" in sport related infraestructure.

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Yes, of course he exaggerates everything, as the ultra-nationalistic bordering-xenophobic he is (because yes, it's xenophobia, the point he's trying to prove is that argentinians in general are idiots and can't do anything right). Notice how he also says "thanks god we don't speak spanish" (what is he implying???)

I'm so ultra-nationalistic that I spent my money twice visiting Argentina and yes, having a nice time there.

But the facts are: infra structure of Buenos Aires is aging and the governemnt sucks. That's a fact, LDOG.

As I said, there are nice things about Buenos Aires, and in my opinion (and since this is a forum, I can cast them), the city is not ready to host anything, and is in a worst condition compared to Rio, for example to host a worldwide event.

And lol he says we bought 90's chinese train models, who cares if we don't have the latest? the thing is they are fully functional, secure, keep a good temperature and are fast enough.

New trains to be bought for 2014: http://www.infonews.com/2013/09/23/sociedad-99232-en-2014-la-linea-sarmiento-tendra-25-trenes-nuevos-hechos-en-china.php

Buenos Aires has having a big trouble with train crashes in the last years... A couple of months ago, we got huge coverage in Brazilian media about a huge crash near Buenos Aires. How many hundreds of people died in the accidents? It's sad. You guys should not live this moment.

It was not in the subte, I know, but my point is fair again: the infra-structure of the city is aging, which is sad, Buenos Aires is a beautiful city <<<- can you read this?

BTW I loved how he picked the worst lines for the buses pics :rolleyes:

I said:

part of buses fleet of Buenos Aires that looks like something from "That 70's Show".

I didn't say ALL buses in Buenos Aires are old. It's not true. But a considerable part are. You know that.

And I also said I like the style of them and I think you guys must preserve some not-major lines with these colored-old buses. It's part of the vibrant culture of the city.

And the subte is really old, it stinks and it's good to see some will be replaced... (I traveled in 4 lines of BA subte, the newer wagon I entered looked like old Sao Paulo wagons that are not in use anymore)

But it's already late. Some wagons in Buenos Aires subte are ridiculously old.

About the creditors again: this shady group claims rights over distressed debt took in 2001 (when the country was really falling apart), is not that the current government ever wanted to have to deal with them. The government has been trying to argue why these people shouldn't be payed on U.S. courts, but failed because of stupidity + probably political influences behind of judge Thomas Griesa.

And lol, you can't compare them with the Club de Paris or IMF, it's a whole other level of negotiation with those.

No matter who, Argentina have a lot of creditors, some good, some bad, and many of them are pissed off with the government of your country.

Brazil had a lot of bad creditors too. We got rid of them a long ago by paying our debts. That's how capitalism works.

As I said, the risk-Argentina index is there to you to check. I'm not lying about anything or creating facts.

Don't be mistaken, I'm not stupid, I know the country has a lot of problems. The statistics issue is completely true, the government is lying (well, to be more precise, they use methods of calculation that they know will give them the results they want to show). The currency problem is also a big issue (though even then 220.000 argentinians have asked for World Cup tickets, second only to brazilians themselves, so it's not like we cannot go outside the country).

Brazil have a lot of problems too, even Switzerland have its own. My point is: Argentina, will all potential it has (You guys know what I'm talking) could be in a very better situation right now.

You guys have an amazing land for croping, a reasonable well educate people, but all we feel about Argentina when we go there is the country stopped in the 60s or 70s. That's sad, it's not a reason for my joy. (Forget football rivalry. In this I really hate Argentina).

I have a couple of Argentine friends and I appreciate them very much.

I'm not xenophobic nor ultra-nationalistic. More than that, for most of my life, Argentina was a better country than Brazil in everything but football. It was an example for us. What happened to you guys?

Edited by DannyelBrazil
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