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How much can a Doha 2020 Bid weaken an Istanbul 2020 Bid?


fatixxx

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I thought that Ghuangzhou 2011 were the best asian games.. :blink:

Guangzhou?? Really....?? Mmmm well, Doha's games were an inspiration for the arab world more than Guangzhou for china, that's my point ;)

Uhmmmm...best how? :blink: Having many events at night? or in December? Who really watched those? Do you have stats to bolster your contention that they were "the best"? :rolleyes:

In that point you're right... But they were really motivational for the arab world, more than others for their country. So I mean the "best" in inspiration and education sense

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MrCatra, what is this strategy exactly? What do you understand by it. :unsure: Normally seen in my opinion though, the strategy of the Qatari sheik is to establish personal contacts with members of the IOC as he did with the FIFA-members.

If this is what you meaning than we can't compete with it as Emre said a few messages above. Meanwhil Turkey is giving financial support to countries in need, the Qatari's and UAE sheiks are building big/large water canals in the shape of their names. So much mony spoiled in the last deccade. I think this is not the behaviour to get an Olympic Games on Qatari soil.

LoL, BRIBES $$$.

That aside there are many factors that our Qataris have managed to succeed in... MAJOR PR networks, EXTENSIVE Marketing strategies, MANIPULATING Rules and Guidelines to their favor (proven in 2022 bid), GOVERNMENT to Government relations of countries that have a voice in the IOC (also seen extensively with state visits of the Emir), BRIBES to ioc officials not directly but through the government of the ioc member thus not leaving a suspicious trail.

TRUST ME we seem to play this bidding wars very well, MAYBE if it wasn't for the weather issue in 2016 bid Doha might have actually won...

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The Qatar 2022 World Cup is going to kill the Doha 2020 Olympic bid. It is too much for such a small country. Even if Qatar is filthy rich, it will be seen as too much focus in too short of a time on a tiny nation.

But the real question is how does it weaken Istanbul? Well, that is more serious. As has been mentioned in another thread by an other poster (a theory I agree with), Doha will steal votes from Istanbul on the critical first ballot. A few days ago I saw this as an Istanbul-Rome race, but I think Doha could threaten Istanbul's first ballot chances. I don't see Doha making it far, but it could be a real benefit to Tokyo or Madrid.

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From the point of view of this board I think it's terribly sad that a country with no Olympic tradition, little appeal outside its own circle, with a tainted World Cup victory already behind it etc. is going to dominate discussion for the next two years when I'd rather be talking about Istanbul, Rome, Madrid and Tokyo.

The discussion around this race is going to be seen almost entirely through the prism of 2022, can Doha do it again? Can this tiny state beat infintely more appealing bids from countries with sporting tradition and history again? As much as I think I know the IOC aren't like FIFA, the elephant in the room will always be there now Doha has entered. Namely, will the quality of the bids, history, broad public opinion matter? If there's even a small chance the IOC thinks like FIFA, then they won't, and any discussion here will be pointless.

Rio, of course, beat technically slicker bids, but Brazil's sex appeal to the IOC was obvious and those who've watched a few of these races accept the IOC has to look beyond technical factors when deciding. Of course, London was only middle-ranked technically with Madrid and Paris ahead of it too. It would be tempting, certainly from Doha supporters, to see a Doha victory in a similar light should they win out. A technically compromised bid (because of the heat, the size of the city, the questions of home crowds etc) wins out over slicker bids, they'll says, hasn't this happened before? Yes, of course, but what would the intangibles be in Doha's case i.e. the reasons for the victory, the appeal beyond the technical? In Brazil's case it was the amazing appeal of Rio as a city, the nations enormous love of sport as well as the fact a huge continent hadn't seen the Games before. In London's case it was the appeal of London as a World City and the promise of an Olympic Park at the heart of it as well as the sell-out crowds. In Doha's case what would it be, ESPECIALLY since Istanbul is in the race alongside it? What is Doha's USP? When it's hard to see one, and there's a big pile of $$$ shouting "it's me you fool!", should we ignore our cynical intuitions screaming at us and try to give Doha a fair shot, or should we call a spade a spade?

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IMO as u mention, Doha is not a capable city and a country due to many terms, lack of athletes, heat, size of the city, no olympic history... etc.

but to give their rights back. its a hub at the region, invest lots of infrastructure to sports and arts, sure they can built village park arenas, can organize the games fine but its st that buying mona lisa just for its expensive. do they really know the meaning of the games and what they can add to olympics? or another playground to the qatari realm to play.? while still having clouds on their 2022 victory its not logical to me that qatar try to bite much more than they can chew.

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I think the main impact of a Doha bid is in the first round of voting. And I don't see Doha going that far. Provided that the Qatari are shortlisted, I bet they will probably get out after the first round giving the vast majority of its votes to Istanbul.

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I can't see Doha not being short-listed this time. Especially after the last race when Doha scored higher in the preliminary evaluation than the eventual winner, Rio.

And now that the IOC has "approved" Doha's October dates, what other possible reason, beyond political, could the IOC have to say "no" this time. I think that they've opened up a Pandora's box & they'll simply have to ride-the-tide that they've now created.

And of course the IOC also simply did this due to the fact of the low number of applicants. Another imperative reason Y I don't see Doha being booted early on.

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The IOC simply let Doha in because not to do so would be outright favoritism and discrimination. Yes, they can bid but the IOC ExeCommittee does NOT guarantee victory. They are going in, hopefully, with that frame of mind -- and they cannot say that they were summarily excluded on a mere technicality.

They're really foolhardy if they think they can make any headway; and of course this rankles the Turks, Dubai and their allies. Tokyo could not have wished for a better scenario.

Actually, I am wrong...Vegas and Doha will split all the desert votes! :lol::lol:

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I can't see Doha not being short-listed this time. Especially after the last race when Doha scored higher in the preliminary evaluation than the eventual winner, Rio.

And now that the IOC has "approved" Doha's October dates, what other possible reason, beyond political, could the IOC have to say "no" this time. I think that they've opened up a Pandora's box & they'll simply have to ride-the-tide that they've now created.

And of course the IOC also simply did this due to the fact of the low number of applicants. Another imperative reason Y I don't see Doha being booted early on.

Totally agree. It's all political. They'll be included in the race but they won't win. That's the only reason the IOC okayed the dates.

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And now that the IOC has "approved" Doha's October dates, what other possible reason, beyond political, could the IOC have to say "no" this time. I think that they've opened up a Pandora's box & they'll simply have to ride-the-tide that they've now created.

What Pandora's Box? They may not be likely to win, for whatever reasons in IOC members' minds, but it's a valid and likely viable bid, any city has a right to bid if they want and a right to expect to be approved by the IOC if feasible, and they did the right thing by going to the IOC for approval of the dates. And good on 'em for doing that - if the likes of Buenos Aires, Capetown or even Melbourne or Sydney again, are ever to host, the IOC will have to be similarly flexible over dates. I'm glad that issue's been dealt with and answered satisfactorily.

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What Pandora's Box? They may not be likely to win, for whatever reasons in IOC members' minds, but it's a valid and likely viable bid, any city has a right to bid if they want and a right to expect to be approved by the IOC if feasible, and they did the right thing by going to the IOC for approval of the dates. And good on 'em for doing that - if the likes of Buenos Aires, Capetown or even Melbourne or Sydney again, are ever to host, the IOC will have to be similarly flexible over dates. I'm glad that issue's been dealt with and answered satisfactorily.

but there the hemisphere difference is the reason.

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but there the hemisphere difference is the reason.

If they're from the southern hemisphere or not, they still have to comply by the IOC' acceptable dates - something I was a bit concerned about because, frankly, a rigid July-August timing would be a problem for so many of the likely southern hemisphere contenders.

So, IOC confirmation that there was some flexibility in the dates is definitely welcome news, both for northerners who have heat issues in July-Aug, like Doha, or southerners with cold issues in July-Aug - like most of Oz, Capetown or BA.

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Capetown

I thought about this.

Unless CapeTown is prepared to spend another $500 million for a new T&F stadium...which I don't think they will, then I believe RSA will be on track to put forth Durban in 2024 since it is the only one of the Big 3 RSA cities that built a T&F stadium...plus, I believe both Pretoria and the Durban city fathers had the foresight to think that by sticking with Durban they can also play within the desirable July-August window that the IOC and the networks prefer. Even if the window seems more flexible again now (and could change again), I really can't see RSA doubling back to Cape Town or Jo'burg. They have primed Durban to play with the North's preferred calendar.

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I thought about this.

Unless CapeTown is prepared to spend another $500 million for a new T&F stadium...which I don't think they will, then I believe RSA will be on track to put forth Durban in 2024 since it is the only one of the Big 3 RSA cities that built a T&F stadium...plus, I believe both Pretoria and the Durban city fathers had the foresight to think that by sticking with Durban they can also play within the desirable July-August window that the IOC and the networks prefer. Even if the window seems more flexible again now (and could change again), I really can't see RSA doubling back to Cape Town or Jo'burg. They have primed Durban to play with the North's preferred calendar.

I agree. I'd be surprised if they don't stick with Durban, specially if Durban's going to be their candidate/likely winner for the 2022 CWGs bid. Between the better climate, and their already existing facilities, they're surely at the front of the queue at the very least.

But, hey, there's still a large group who haven't given up on Capetown.

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Bakus's bid can make harm a lot Doha's

Absolutely. I predict maybe Baku - 5; Doha - 6 votes in the Opening round.

Baku's entry is actually better for Istanbul because it pushes Istanbul farther away from an early elimination round; and I am sure the Baku and Doha votes will fall behind Istanbul...thus will give Istanbul a lot of momentum.

Baku's entry is the best thing for the Istanbul bid and the worst for that spoiler, Doha. So maybe:

Baku - 5

Doha - 6

Istanbul - 22

Madrid - 24

Rome - 26

Tokyo - 18

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Absolutely. I predict Baku - 4; Doha - 6 votes in the Opening round.

Baku's entry is actually better for Istanbul because it pushed Istanbul farther away from an early elimination round; and I am sure the Baku and Doha votes will fall

behind Istanbul...thus will give Istanbul a lot of momentum.

Baku's entry is the best thing for the Istanbul bid and the worst for that spoiler, Doha.

Of course it benefits Istanbul! (:D). Actually I think they have a lot of chance of not being shortlisted! HAHA! But if they do they will kill Doha's (few) possibilties

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