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USA 2024


Athensfan
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What I find ironic is that by posting my opinions and challenging the opinions of others I have merited this sort of antagonism. If people want to behave like that, then I will discuss different opinions with others and those who are blocked will remain so.

Good, then everyone's happy.

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Good, then everyone's happy.

Yes. If everyone I've blocked so far can block me, then we won't have to read each other opinions and feel the need to comment on them.

And if those people I have blocked can avoid commenting on any new thread I create in future, because it won't be of any interest to them and they will only want to offer a negative opinion, then it will be much appreciated and everyone will be happy.

So that's yourself, Quaker2001, Athensfan, FYI and Potatochips.

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Yes. If everyone I've blocked so far can block me, then we won't have to read each other opinions and feel the need to comment on them.

And if those people I have blocked can avoid commenting on any new thread I create in future, because it won't be of any interest to them and they will only want to offer a negative opinion, then it will be much appreciated and everyone will be happy.

So that's yourself, Quaker2001, Athensfan, FYI and Potatochips.

Oh no, I don't block anyone - unless they've been pestering me with whining PMs like BS and kernowboy did. In which case I just blocked their PMs to me. I'd still like to comment on, and refute if I think it merits it, any opinions posted here. That's why people post, isn't it? To get feedback? If people don't want to read reactions to their posts and opinions, that's fine. I guess some people think they need to talk to themselves to get agreement or have an intelligent conversation.

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It was said Minneapolis is not well known. I pointed out that they've had regular flights to both Europe AND Asia for decades and airlines don't waste money like that unless people want to make those journeys (incidentally neither Boston or Philadelphia have Asian flights). And the result? My response was ignored. I was then told Minneapolis didn't have enough big companies. According to Forbes it has the 5th highest concentration of Fortune500 companies in the US ahead of Chicago, LA, Philadephia, SF and Boston. And the result? My response was ignored. You claim my sole response is 'How can you be so dismissive ...?" ... that is simply not true.

Yet people continue to support SF because it looks nice.

Well, let's be fair for a sec about the flights. That isn't about Minneapolis so much as it was about Northwest having it as a hub city (and in spite of the name, I believe for a long time that Minneapolis was their hub closest to Asia and that they didn't actually a have in the Northwest). It's the hub-and-spoke model where they're just funneling people through MSP onto other cities just like with Delta, the entire airline seems to go through Atlanta even though that's not an initial or final destination for most of those folks. Especially now that Northwest has been merged into Delta, I don't know how many flights to Asia still originate from MSP.

The companies.. yes, there is a business presence there. But again, this is the city that once lost out to Atlanta (and Coca-Cola) in a competition that didn't include the bigger U.S. cities we had in the 2012 and 2016 races. Most people before and certainly after 1996 could probably name Atlanta as the head of Coca-Cola. I'm not sure off-hand what the major corporations are in Minneapolis other than Target. Again, I'm not sure how strong the international cachet is there that they have.

And as for San Francisco.. forget for a sec whatever the IOC might have been said about them. They are a much larger market than Minneapolis. I have to imagine they're more well-known internationally. And they've been involved in the last couple of Olympic bids. I can't speak as an outsider since I live in the United States and don't have that differing viewpoint, but in terms of name recognition, they're going to have a big edge.

Not to belabor the point, but this is a competition. Put San Francisco up against Minneapolis and, all things being equal, SF wins that one hands down because of the size and scope of the city compared to Minneapolis. Perception and timing often trump everything else with the IOC. If San Francisco is in a battle with some of the world's more prominent cities (and/or new frontier types like Istanbul or South Africa), they have a shot. There's a pretty big Asian base there that can justify it as an international city. I just don't think Minneapolis has the type of name brand recognition. To throw some stats in here..

http://sanfrancisco.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

http://minneapolis.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

More than 30% of San Francisco is Asian. Contrast that with Minneapolis which doesn't have the same type of diversity. There are elements that would make Minneapolis attractive as an Olympics host, but in terms of the whole package, there are at least a half dozen cities that would get picked over Minneapolis every time out.

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Actually that is wrong.

It was said Minneapolis is not well known. I pointed out that they've had regular flights to both Europe AND Asia for decades and airlines don't waste money like that unless people want to make those journeys (incidentally neither Boston or Philadelphia have Asian flights). And the result? My response was ignored. I was then told Minneapolis didn't have enough big companies. According to Forbes it has the 5th highest concentration of Fortune500 companies in the US ahead of Chicago, LA, Philadephia, SF and Boston. And the result? My response was ignored. You claim my sole response is 'How can you be so dismissive ...?" ... that is simply not true.

Yet people continue to support SF because it looks nice.

For someone that enjoys to criticize others for not using a simple search engine to research things before they comment, you sure need to practice what you preach!

I would hardly call ONE flight to Tokyo from there as "regular flights to Asia". A simple look at Delta.com's website will tell you this. Hardly an aspect that makes MSP Olympic "worthy".

And like Quaker pointed out, that's merely a connection point & not a particular place that's a "final destination" for the majority of the people that pass through there.

And Baron made another interesting point. Frankfurt is Germany's financial & business capital. But even the Germans here say that Berlin & Hamburg would be much better options. So who the frick cares if Minneapolis has "more" Fortune 500 companies than many large U.S. cities.

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For someone that enjoys to criticize others for not using a simple search engine to research things before they comment, you sure need to practice what you preach!

I would hardly call ONE flight to Tokyo from there as "regular flights to Asia". A simple look at Delta.com's website will tell you this. Hardly an aspect that makes MSP Olympic "worthy".

And like Quaker pointed out, that's merely a connection point & not a particular place that's a "final destination" for the majority of the people that pass through there.

And Baron made another interesting point. Frankfurt is Germany's financial & business capital. But even the Germans here say that Berlin & Hamburg would be much better options. So who the frick cares if Minneapolis has "more" Fortune 500 companies than many large U.S. cities.

Now.

Northwest flew out of Minneapolis to Tokyo where they have fifth freedom rights allowing flights from Tokyo to the rest of East Asia for 50years odd.

As for Frankfurt and the comparison, Frankfurt has no real sporting culture - it has a football team that is usually fighting relegation, a DEL team which went bust and an average basketball team. One of the 12 US cities that has representation in the Big4 sports is a good start.

But you comment about the Fortune500 companies says it all about the expert posters on this site. A number of them make a big deal about low important local economics is to supporting a privately funded bid. The moment you provide evidence of this it all of a sudden becomes unimportant.

Who is this Crusader character, and why is everyone giving audience to their insignificant thoughts?

They remind me of Blacksheep (whatever happened to that oddball, anyway?)

Well you might being blocked then.

I would recommend you block me back so you won't need to give audience to my insignificant thoughts either.

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Northwest flew out of Minneapolis to Tokyo where they have fifth freedom rights allowing flights from Tokyo to the rest of East Asia for 50years odd.

As for Frankfurt and the comparison, Frankfurt has no real sporting culture - it has a football team that is usually fighting relegation, a DEL team which went bust and an average basketball team. One of the 12 US cities that has representation in the Big4 sports is a good start.

Code share flights are hardly what I would use to try & further your argument. They're not non-stop flights. You still have to make connections, & you could use this logic with many other U.S. cities that aren't high-profile cities. And like it's already been pointed out by others, it's not like MSP is most of these travelers "final destination". It's simly bcuz Northwest had/Delta has now, a hub there for the connecting flights. Yet an international city, like San Francisco, with TRUE "regular flights to Asia", you frown upon.

And if "sporting culture" is also your criteria, then there's still other U.S. cities that have much more of it than MSP. Including SFO, which again you frown upon. IDK, what your love is with Minneapolis, but usually the minority of people that come on here fighting tooth & nail over it, is merely bcuz of bias reasons.

I'd be willing to agree with you half-way, that perhaps while Minneapolis does grow a bit more, it "could" be in potential discussions in the future. But not this next time that the U.S might get a Games, but perhaps the time after that, in another 50 years or so, But by then, who knows what other U.S. cities might leap forward as well. Like Houston, for example, which is projected to become the nations 3rd largest city within the next 25 years.

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Code share flights are hardly what I would use to try & further your argument. They're not non-stop flights. You still have to make connections, & you could use this logic with many other U.S. cities that aren't high-profile cities. And like it's already been pointed out by others, it's not like MSP is most of these travelers "final destination". It's simly bcuz Northwest had/Delta has now, a hub there for the connecting flights. Yet an international city, like San Francisco, with TRUE "regular flights to Asia", you frown upon.

What code share? - Northwest Airlines were a pioneer on the Great Circle route via Anchorage to Japan and established a hub at Haneba, later Narita and flew this from 1946 until 2010. As Wings and later Skyteam does not have a Japanese member there were only Northwest aircraft flying on their routes.

'Fifth freedom rights' does not mean codeshare. It means an overseas airline has the traffic rights to collect new passengers from a second country and transport them to a third. For example, Northwest could fly to Japan, pick up Japanese passengers in Tokyo and then take those extra passengers to South Korea, China, Okinawa etc. And their two major US connecting cities for about 50years were Minneapolis and Detroit.

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I could've seen the olympic in Detroit when the automobile industry was doing well, but since the economy is doing so bad it's become a depressing ghost town. MSP maybe a nice area to live in, but until it signifies itself as a major international city like London, New York, Sydney, and Tokyo, I don't see it getting close to hosting the olympics.

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'Fifth freedom rights' does not mean codeshare. It means an overseas airline has the traffic rights to collect new passengers from a second country and transport them to a third. For example, Northwest could fly to Japan, pick up Japanese passengers in Tokyo and then take those extra passengers to South Korea, China, Okinawa etc. And their two major US connecting cities for about 50years were Minneapolis and Detroit.

I still don't see how this is a major selling point for Minneapolis. Plus, you're speaking in past tense anyway. So this has no bearing now since Northwest doesn't exist anymore.

Besides, look how well that little aspect played out for Detroit's 7 failed Olympic bids. It didn't. And Detroit was a booming town back then.

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I still don't see how this is a major selling point for Minneapolis. Plus, you're speaking in past tense anyway. So this has no bearing now since Northwest doesn't exist anymore.

Besides, look how well that little aspect played out for Detroit's 7 failed Olympic bids. It didn't. And Detroit was a booming town back then.

Agreed.

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One thing I've been wondering about is San Francisco. The IOC may like the city, but could it host the games? All the venues, hotels, olympic village. Could it handle it? where would they put it? what would become of the venues after the games?

See my post #23 here: http://www.gamesbids.com/forums/topic/22031-usoc-forms-committee-to-study-possible-olympic-bid/page__st__20

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Now that the USOC has officially closed the door on 2020, 2024 offers the next opportunity for American Summer Games.

Clearly, the greatest threat to American Summer Games would be yet another edition of the Winter Games. As I have argued in many other threads, Summer Games would reinvigorate the Olympic movement in the United States far more than Winter Games. The Summer Games draw larger audiences, American athletes perform better at Summer Games, Summer Games have the potential to yield more revenue than Winter Games and Summer Games generate more enthusiasm than Winter Games.

If the US were to host Winter Games in either 2022 or 2026, it is probable that the next North American Summer Games would be held in Canada -- potentially forcing the United States to wait until the 40s or 50s for Summer Games on home soil. In this age of ever-shrinking attention spans and an ever-broadening buffet of entertainment options, I question whether American appetites for the Olympics could survive a 50-year gap between domestic Summer Games.

It is also worth considering the fact that the last American Olympics were Winter Games (Salt Lake 2002). Not only that, apart from North America, no continent in the history of the Olympic Games has hosted back to back Winter Games without an intervening Summer Games (Salt Lake City 2002, Vancouver 2010). (The only possible exception to this would be Sarajevo 1984 - Albertville 1992. It hardly seems a fair comparison considering that Barcelona was selected as the 1992 Summer host at the same IOC session during which Albertville was chosen as the Winter host.)

If the US were to host another Winter Games in 2022 or 2026 that would make three Winter Games on a single continent without an intervening Summer Games -- an occurrence that would be totally unprecedented in Olympic history.

There is no guarantee that a 2024 bid would find an easy path and certainly no guarantee that it would be victorious, but if the US settles for Winter Games yet again, the wait for Summer Games could feel interminable and damage could be done to the Olympic movement -- not only in the United States, but globally.

Perhaps the greatest external challenge to an American bid for the 2024 Games would come from a South African challenger. As the 2016 race showed, the IOC is committed to exploring new frontiers -- and rightly so. And yet, as the world's great democratic experiment, as a nation founded not on ethnicity, but on the founding principle of freedom for all, the United States still has a great deal to offer the Olympic movement.

The United States of the last decade is not representative of who we really are. The next American Summer Games will be an opportunity to redefine ourselves as the country that is committed to equality and freedom for all. It is my hope that we will continue to grow as a nation and that the IOC will be eager to return to the United States of America -- not just because we are a nation blessed with incredible wealth and diversity -- but because the key ingredients of the Olympic movement are embedded deeply in the DNA of our country.

I just stumbled across the following musings about a possible Chicago bid for the 2024 Games:

http://featuresblogs...-chance-fo.html

1. You forgot that USA is the only country to have organized olympic games in 8 years (1984,1996) (an occurrence that would be totally unprecedented in Olympic history.)

2. There are countries that havent organized summer olympics for much more years than USA (1996). For example Toronto(1976) from Canada, Paris (1924) from France, Moscow (1980) from Russia, Rome (1960) from Italy, Munich (1972) from Germany, Tokyo (1964) if they dont be selected for 2020. Even if take account only bids for americas, Toronto has priority. Personally i think that logic says Europe in 2024, because 2016 will be in america continent, and 2020 propably in Tokyo, Asia

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1. You forgot that USA is the only country to have organized olympic games in 8 years (1984,1996) (an occurrence that would be totally unprecedented in Olympic history.)

2. There are countries that havent organized summer olympics for much more years than USA (1996). For example Toronto(1976) from Canada, Paris (1924) from France, Moscow (1980) from Russia, Rome (1960) from Italy, Munich (1972) from Germany, Tokyo (1964) if they dont be selected for 2020. Even if take account only bids for americas, Toronto has priority. Personally i think that logic says Europe in 2024, because 2016 will be in america continent, and 2020 propably in Tokyo, Asia

I am aware of those statistic regarding the US and other previous hosts.

My primary argument is aimed at the USOC -- not the IOC. It is important for the USOC to pursue and land Summer Games first rather than Winter ones. Their chances at succeeding in 2024 are FAR better than their chances were for 2012 or 2016. The odds only improve as time passes. The IOC can certainly choose to go elsewhere if they prefer.

Although other countries have certainly waited longer for the Games, one can argue (as I have) that because of the United States' economic and sporting power, because of the amount of money and interest the US generates for the IOC (which far surpasses other nations), it will help the Olympic movement if the US hosts the Games periodically.

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I am aware of those statistic regarding the US and other previous hosts.

My primary argument is aimed at the USOC -- not the IOC. It is important for the USOC to pursue and land Summer Games first rather than Winter ones. Their chances at succeeding in 2024 are FAR better than their chances were for 2012 or 2016. The odds only improve as time passes. The IOC can certainly choose to go elsewhere if they prefer.

Although other countries have certainly waited longer for the Games, one can argue (as I have) that because of the United States' economic and sporting power, because of the amount of money and interest the US generates for the IOC (which far surpasses other nations), it will help the Olympic movement if the US hosts the Games periodically.

the reasons you mentinoned for a US bid could be the same for a lot of national olympic committes. France has not host a summer olympics since 1924!! they complete 100 years in 2024!!

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the reasons you mentinoned for a US bid could be the same for a lot of national olympic committes. France has not host a summer olympics since 1924!! they complete 100 years in 2024!!

I agree with you. France has a great argument and Paris will be a favorite whenever they next choose to bid.

I am not saying the USA has a better claim than anyone else. I am just saying the US has a strong case and that it is important for the USOC to land Summer Games first before bidding for more Winter Games.

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the reasons you mentinoned for a US bid could be the same for a lot of national olympic committes. France has not host a summer olympics since 1924!! they complete 100 years in 2024!!

If 2020 games go to Europe (Istanbul or Madrid) then 2024 is not going to Paris, or any European city for that matter. Since 2022 is a given for Europe, I doubt the IOC will award the games to Europe a third time in a row.

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