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The fact of the matter is MSP is not a world city. We've said the cities that have a chance to host the games and MSP is far from it. It may not belong in the same category as Tulsa, Columbus, and Disney World, but it probably belongs in the category with cities like Detroit, San Diego, St. Louis

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if everyone in this thread just agrees to agree with you will you please stop? i'm not sure how many more pages of you posting the exact same post on the damn bus drivers getting lost we can take. i

Why do you like to repeat yourself multiple times? Its very annoying.

In sum....

It's a clean, boring city...like Toronto. I mean it couldn't even beat Atlanta in 1989 to be the official US candidate (for 1996). So really, how exciting and strategic a city is it??

Have you been to Toronto to judge its boringness? I don't think so.

And to the theatre point San Francisco is the second largest in the USA after New York

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The point I am trying to make is people seem to emphasise why they can't rather than look positively why they can?

If Chicago and New York can't win despite being well known, maybe the USA is a distinct host where a different approach needs to be taken especially because unlike many countries, they can offer a multitude of different cities and it is the sense of the unknown which becomes the positive attractive element to be emphasised?.

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I think the IOC wants KNOWN quantities -- particularly when it comes to the US.

If the feedback from 2012 and 2016 had been "NYC and Chicago are too big, too famous and too glamorous. We want you to surprise us with something smaller and undiscovered" -- then you would have a point. But no one in the IOC has ever suggested such a thing.

Is Minneapolis capable of staging Olympics? Yes. Are they electable by the IOC? No.

The US lost 2012 and 2016 for a variety of reasons. None of those reasons included NYC or Chicago being too well-known. Recent voting trends show the IOC wants world capitals -- not Leipzigs. Minneapolis is an American Leipzig in the IOC's book.

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The point I am trying to make is people seem to emphasise why they can't rather than look positively why they can?

If Chicago and New York can't win despite being well known, maybe the USA is a distinct host where a different approach needs to be taken especially because unlike many countries, they can offer a multitude of different cities and it is the sense of the unknown which becomes the positive attractive element to be emphasised?.

I'm calling BS on that one. You can't look at the last 3 bids and think it that the bids themselves would trump timing and circumstance. Think of it this way.. I know this is a hypothetical, but take Atlanta 1996, NYC 2012, and Chicago 2016 and throw them all in a competition against each other, especially knowing you'd be going up against other well-known international cities afterwards. Would Atlanta have come out on top in that one? I sincerely doubt it. Drop NYC or Chicago into the 1996 bid and they probably win as well. Drop Atlanta into 2012 or 2016 and you know they don't stand a chance in hell.

It's still a competition though, both domestically and internationally. Maybe a city like Minneapolis can come up with some sort of X factor, but they need to be that much better than all of the cities that are bigger and more grand than they are. I can't see the IOC being impressed that Minneapolis is the third biggest theater market in the US or that they have Mall of America or that they're the home of Scandinavian culture in the U.S or that they're the largest city between Seattle and Chicago. Those are all good qualities, but good luck selling that to a International voters deciding the location of a quadrennial event. Like Athens said, Minneapolis is capable of hosting a legitimate Olympics. But will the circumstances position them to win over the majority of 100 voters, most of whom are not from the United States? Let alone the USOC thinking they're the best of their options in the first place? I don't see them being able to make their case.

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I don't think they're Olympic material either, but they are the 3rd largest theater market in the US.

That's hogwash. In what fantasy world is that claim made?

In terms of opera and ballet alone,

- the San Francisco Opera is the 2nd largest and most prestigous in the country after NYC's the MET (I believe Chicago and LA come in a sort of 3rd place tie);

- the San Francisco Ballet is 3rd behind the New York City and American Theatre Ballet companies, both based in New York.

I've never heard any self-respecting theatrical impresario exclaim: We will open in Minneapolis! That's about as ludicrous a claim as Tulsa is touting itself as a serious Olympic contender.

- Further, the SF Bay Area alone has two of the largest, most prolific repertory theatre companies in the country...ACT and the Berkeley Repertory Theatre companies.

- SF-based commercial theatre impressario Carole Shorenstein has first crack at Broadway and London-tested productions with her connections to the Nederlanders.

- SF is home to 42nd Street Moon, one of the 4 major repertory companies devoted to the staging of 'lost' and rarely revived musicals. New York has 2 and Los Angeles has the other.

- Until it ran into money troubles, SF had the Performing Arts Library & Museum, the 2nd major museum in the country after NYC, devoted to theatrical (a lot of ballet and opera) archives and design.

What does MSP have besides the Walker/Tyrone Guthrie Theatre? Video clips of The Mary Tyler Moore Show. That's all. :wacko:

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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That's hogwash. In what fantasy world is that claim made?

In terms of opera and ballet alone,

- the San Francisco Opera is the 2nd largest and most prestigous in the country after NYC's the MET (I believe Chicago and LA come in a sort of 3rd place tie);

- the San Francisco Ballet is 3rd behind the New York City and American Theatre Ballet companies, both based in New York.

I've never heard any self-respecting theatrical impresario exclaim: We will open in Minneapolis! That's about as ludicrous a claim as Tulsa is touting itself as a serious Olympic contender.

- Further, the SF Bay Area alone has two of the largest, most prolific repertory theatre companies in the country...ACT and the Berkeley Repertory Theatre companies.

- SF-based commercial theatre impressario Carole Shorenstein has first crack at Broadway and London-tested productions with her connections to the Nederlanders.

- SF is home to 42nd Street Moon, one of the 4 major repertory companies devoted to the staging of 'lost' and rarely revived musicals. New York has 2 and Los Angeles has the other.

- Until it ran into money troubles, SF had the Performing Arts Library & Museum, the 2nd major museum in the country after NYC, devoted to theatrical (a lot of ballet and opera) archives and design.

What does MSP have besides the Walker/Tyrone Guthrie Theatre? Video clips of The Mary Tyler Moore Show. That's all. :wacko:

"The region is second only to New York City in live theater per capita[77] and is the third-largest theater market in the U.S. after New York and Chicago, supporting the Illusion, Jungle, Mixed Blood, Penumbra, Mu Performing Arts, Bedlam Theatre, the Brave New Workshop, the Minnesota Dance Theatre, Red Eye, Skewed Visions, Theater Latté Da, In the Heart of the Beast Puppet and Mask Theatre, Lundstrum Center for the Performing Arts, and the Children's Theatre Company.[78]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minneapolis

"The Walker. The Weisman. The Minneapolis Institute of Arts. The stunning new Guthrie Theatre. Orchestra Hall. MacPhail Center for Music. The Orpheum. The State. Pantages. We’re a city that lives the arts. Only New York has more theatre seats per capita. We’re the third largest theatre market in the nation, and the third largest dance market. Whether you want to see a Broadway musical or classical works of art, Minneapolis is the ticket."

http://www.downtownmpls.com/

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"The region is second only to New York City in live theater per capita[77] and is the third-largest theater market in the U.S. after New York and Chicago, supporting the Illusion, Jungle, Mixed Blood, Penumbra, Mu Performing Arts, Bedlam Theatre, the Brave New Workshop, the Minnesota Dance Theatre, Red Eye, Skewed Visions, Theater Latté Da, In the Heart of the Beast Puppet and Mask Theatre, Lundstrum Center for the Performing Arts, and the Children's Theatre Company.[78]"

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Minneapolis

"The Walker. The Weisman. The Minneapolis Institute of Arts. The stunning new Guthrie Theatre. Orchestra Hall. MacPhail Center for Music. The Orpheum. The State. Pantages. We’re a city that lives the arts. Only New York has more theatre seats per capita. We’re the third largest theatre market in the nation, and the third largest dance market. Whether you want to see a Broadway musical or classical works of art, Minneapolis is the ticket."

http://www.downtownmpls.com/

If you want to see a Broadway musical or classical works of art, I'm pretty sure New York is the ticket.

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"The region is second only to New York City in live theater per capita[77] and is the third-largest theater market in the U.S. after New York and Chicago, supporting the Illusion, Jungle, Mixed Blood, Penumbra, Mu Performing Arts, Bedlam Theatre, the Brave New Workshop, the Minnesota Dance Theatre, Red Eye, Skewed Visions, Theater Latté Da, In the Heart of the Beast Puppet and Mask Theatre, Lundstrum Center for the Performing Arts, and the Children's Theatre Company.[78]"

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Minneapolis

:lol: Anybody can throw in stats in wikipedia. Even IMDB has stricter controls. :lol:

"The Walker. The Weisman. The Minneapolis Institute of Arts. The stunning new Guthrie Theatre. Orchestra Hall. MacPhail Center for Music. The Orpheum. The State. Pantages. We’re a city that lives the arts. Only New York has more theatre seats per capita. We’re the third largest theatre market in the nation, and the third largest dance market. Whether you want to see a Broadway musical or classical works of art, Minneapolis is the ticket."

http://www.downtownmpls.com/

Please, don't make me laugh again. How can the #16 metropolitan statistical area have a 'larger' theatrical market than #11 (the SF Bay area)?

The San Francisco Theatre Scene

Just about any time of the year you can scour the theater listings in the San Francisco Bay Area and find well over 100 productions available for viewing. These shows range from plays to musicals to cabarets and everything else in between.

The hardest part for theater goers in San Francisco isn’t finding a show but narrowing down their options. To assist in that chore we’ve listed several of San Francisco’s top theaters.

While the following list is far from comprehensive it is a great place to start. It contains large and small theaters as well as venues that cater to both mainstream Broadway hits and smaller scale experimental productions.

Any discussion of the San Francisco theater scene must start with the American Conservatory Theatre. Also known by its acronym, A.C.T. is nationally renowned and generally considered the city’s flagship theater. Newly restored and seating 1000, theater goers can find the American Conservatory Theatre at 415 Geary Street (415-729-2ACT).

This fall A.C.T. will launch the U.S. premiere of Noel’s Coward Brief Encounter and the west coast premiere of David Mamet’s November. A Christmas Carol walks the board this December.

While you’re bound to see a quality show at A.C.T. the chances are low you’ll find a place to park. Take a cab or give yourself plenty of time to park your car otherwise you might miss the overture.

The American Conservatory Theatre is located in area between the Union Square shopping district and the Tenderloin district. This area is called the Theater District although the term is fairly exclusive to real estate agents, hotels and restaurants. Still, quite a few theaters reside in this part of town.

For example, next store to the A.C.T. is the Curran Theatre, 445 Geary Street.

The Curran Theatre has a long history of hosting top Broadway shows, The Jersey Boys, Spring Awakening and Les Misérables have all played there. Even the theater’s architecture reminds patrons of Broadway making the Curran a little slice of the Great Way White in the city by the bay.

Sitting at 156 Eddy Street is the Exit Theatre For more than 25 years the Exit has brought experimental and bohemian productions to San Francisco. This September the theater hosts the 2009 Fringe Festival.

Moving away from the so-called Theater District, another of the city’s great venue for plays is the Eureka Theater situated at 215 Jackson Street . This refurbished theater focuses on intense and innovated dramas

The Eureka has introduced San Francisco audiences to Angles in America as well as the works of David Mamet and Anna Deavers Smith. At the end of this year the Eureka Theater is scheduled to produce a slew of great plays, Call Me Madam, Destry Rides Again and Jubliee. In spring of 2010, look for Lady, Be Good! and Very Warm For May.

The Orpheum Theatre is an official historical landmark in the city of San Francisco. Located at 1192 Market Street, the stunning 70-plus year-old theater has hosted a plethora of great Broadway musicals throughout the years including Phantom of Opera, The Color Purple, and Mamma Mia! Currently, the Orpheum is hosting the worldwide phenomenon Wicked.

Even if you don’t like the people expressing themselves through song, you’ll love the beautiful Orpheum. The lobby resembles a 12th century Spanish palace while inside the auditorium large lions decorate the ornate walls.

Fortunately they turn off the house lights during the show or you’d spend all night staring at the Orpheum’s intricate carvings instead of paying attention to the world class performance occurring on its stage.

[/font]

While the Orpheum dazzles with its Spanish architecture, the Golden Gate Theatre captures the imagination with its art deco. Opened in 1922, the Golden Gate Theatre has welcomed the likes of the Marx Brothers and Frank Sinatra to its stage. Now the spectacular theater welcomes shows like Hairspray, Chicago and Movin’ Out. The Rodgers and Hammerstein classic, South Pacific, visits the Golden Gate in the fall.

You’ll find the Gold Gate Theatre on 1 Taylor Street at the corner of Taylor and Market at 6th Street.

etc., etc. See link: http://www.sanfranci...heaterScene.asp

Have Enrico Caruso, Renata Tebaldi, the late Luciano Pavarotti and Beverly Sills, Placido Domingo, Lauren Bacall, etc., to name a few theatrical luminaries of the last 100 years or so, performed in Minneapolis at all?

:blink: [/font]

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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The city doesn't even have its own-named opera company or symphony orchestra. They're both called the Minnesota Opera and the Minnesota Opera!!

And neither is there a Minneapolis Ballet, but a Metropolitan Ballet (Minneapolis / St. Paul) -- trying to pass itself off as the Metropoitan Ballet of New York City!!

How can a 21st century city be truly international or even claim to be the "3rd largest per capita" :rolleyes: in the nation if it doesn't even have its own symphony, opera and ballet companies??

At least there are the Tulsa Ballet, Tulsa Opera and Tulsa Symphony companies!!

:lol::lol: I rest my case.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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:lol: Anybody can throw in stats in wikipedia. Even IMDB has stricter controls. :lol:

Please, don't make me laugh again. How can the #16 metropolitan statistical area have a 'larger' theatrical market than #11 (the SF Bay area)?

The San Francisco Theatre Scene

Just about any time of the year you can scour the theater listings in the San Francisco Bay Area and find well over 100 productions available for viewing. These shows range from plays to musicals to cabarets and everything else in between.

The hardest part for theater goers in San Francisco isn’t finding a show but narrowing down their options. To assist in that chore we’ve listed several of San Francisco’s top theaters.

While the following list is far from comprehensive it is a great place to start. It contains large and small theaters as well as venues that cater to both mainstream Broadway hits and smaller scale experimental productions.

Any discussion of the San Francisco theater scene must start with the American Conservatory Theatre. Also known by its acronym, A.C.T. is nationally renowned and generally considered the city’s flagship theater. Newly restored and seating 1000, theater goers can find the American Conservatory Theatre at 415 Geary Street (415-729-2ACT).

This fall A.C.T. will launch the U.S. premiere of Noel’s Coward Brief Encounter and the west coast premiere of David Mamet’s November. A Christmas Carol walks the board this December.

While you’re bound to see a quality show at A.C.T. the chances are low you’ll find a place to park. Take a cab or give yourself plenty of time to park your car otherwise you might miss the overture.

The American Conservatory Theatre is located in area between the Union Square shopping district and the Tenderloin district. This area is called the Theater District although the term is fairly exclusive to real estate agents, hotels and restaurants. Still, quite a few theaters reside in this part of town.

For example, next store to the A.C.T. is the Curran Theatre, 445 Geary Street.

The Curran Theatre has a long history of hosting top Broadway shows, The Jersey Boys, Spring Awakening and Les Misérables have all played there. Even the theater’s architecture reminds patrons of Broadway making the Curran a little slice of the Great Way White in the city by the bay.

Sitting at 156 Eddy Street is the Exit Theatre For more than 25 years the Exit has brought experimental and bohemian productions to San Francisco. This September the theater hosts the 2009 Fringe Festival.

Moving away from the so-called Theater District, another of the city’s great venue for plays is the Eureka Theater situated at 215 Jackson Street . This refurbished theater focuses on intense and innovated dramas

The Eureka has introduced San Francisco audiences to Angles in America as well as the works of David Mamet and Anna Deavers Smith. At the end of this year the Eureka Theater is scheduled to produce a slew of great plays, Call Me Madam, Destry Rides Again and Jubliee. In spring of 2010, look for Lady, Be Good! and Very Warm For May.

The Orpheum Theatre is an official historical landmark in the city of San Francisco. Located at 1192 Market Street, the stunning 70-plus year-old theater has hosted a plethora of great Broadway musicals throughout the years including Phantom of Opera, The Color Purple, and Mamma Mia! Currently, the Orpheum is hosting the worldwide phenomenon Wicked.

Even if you don’t like the people expressing themselves through song, you’ll love the beautiful Orpheum. The lobby resembles a 12th century Spanish palace while inside the auditorium large lions decorate the ornate walls.

Fortunately they turn off the house lights during the show or you’d spend all night staring at the Orpheum’s intricate carvings instead of paying attention to the world class performance occurring on its stage.

[/font]

While the Orpheum dazzles with its Spanish architecture, the Golden Gate Theatre captures the imagination with its art deco. Opened in 1922, the Golden Gate Theatre has welcomed the likes of the Marx Brothers and Frank Sinatra to its stage. Now the spectacular theater welcomes shows like Hairspray, Chicago and Movin’ Out. The Rodgers and Hammerstein classic, South Pacific, visits the Golden Gate in the fall.

You’ll find the Gold Gate Theatre on 1 Taylor Street at the corner of Taylor and Market at 6th Street.

The Herbst Theatre ( chrome-extension://lifbcibllhkdhoafpjfnlhfpfgnpldfl/numbers_button_skype_logo.png415-621-6600) is lodged in the War Memorial Veterans Building in downtown San Francisco. Its physical address is 401 Van Ness Avenue. This gorgeous theater plays host to events like The 2009 Bay Area Rhythm Exchange, Carol Channing & Friends, and Lucy Lawless in Concert: Come To Mama.

Inside the Herbst you’ll find eight large, brilliantly-colored beaux-arts murals as well as five glorious chandeliers. Perhaps not the first destination for musicals or plays, the intimacy of the Herbst is perfect for classical music performances, recitals, dance, lectures, and films.

Other theaters in San Francisco include the 4 Star Theatre (2200 Clement Street chrome-extension://lifbcibllhkdhoafpjfnlhfpfgnpldfl/numbers_button_skype_logo.png415-666-3488) with their on-running Saturday Live Comedy show; the Royce Gallery (2901 Marposa Street) is a great venue for one acts and performance art; and the Phoenix Theatre (414 Mason Street) is currently hosting a production of A View From the Bridge.

In nearby Berkeley, you’ll find the Aurora Theatre and the Berkeley Repertory Theatre. The award winning Aurora Theatre, 2081 Addison Street ( chrome-extension://lifbcibllhkdhoafpjfnlhfpfgnpldfl/numbers_button_skype_logo.png510-843-4822), performs five plays a year. This esteem theatre company aims to produce work that’s "about something important; ideas mediated by language and people, which are assisted by other elements like sets, lights and costumes."

Right now at the Aurora you can catch the Depression-era drama Awake And Sing! Later this year look for productions of Fat Pig and The Coverlettes Cover Christmas.

Since 1968, the Berkeley Repertory Theatre has been entertaining Bay Area audiences with productions of dynamic dramas and seldom performed classics. Later this year the Tony Award-winning theatre will showcase two plays, American Idiot and Tiny Kushner.

Once the calendar turns, theater goers will have the opportunity to attend performances of Coming Home and Girlfriend.

Turning our attention back to the city, the quintessential San Francisco theater experience has to be the one and only Beach Blanket Bingo. This fun and energetic revue spoofs pop culture with extravagant customs and outrageous wigs.

A part of the city for more 35 years, Beach Blanket Bingo has made history as the longest running revue in musical theatre history. You can catch this thoroughly entertaining San Francisco institution at Club Fugazi located on 678 Beach Blanket Babylon Boulevard.

With its sheer number of theaters and high volume of quality productions, many of which originate in the area, the San Francisco theatre scene is arguably one of the best in the nation.

Have Enrico Caruso, Renata Tebaldi, the late Luciano Pavarotti and Beverly Sills, Placido Domingo, Lauren Bacall, etc., to name a few theatrical luminaries of the last 100 years or so, performed in Minneapolis at all?

:blink:

So you replace a claim from Downtown MSP with a claim from SanFrancisco?

Here is the comment from the independent TravelMuse

"The arts are big here: The region is second only to New York City in live theater per capita and is the third-largest theater market in the United States. The Minneapolis Institute of the Arts and the Walker Art Center are well worth visits." -- TravelMuse

"Minneapolis is also the third largest theater market in the country" The Boston Consulting Group

http://www.bcg.com/about_bcg/offices/minneapolis.aspx

Are they liars too?

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What does MSP have besides the Walker/Tyrone Guthrie Theatre? Video clips of The Mary Tyler Moore Show. That's all. :wacko:

It's the U.S. home of Scandinavian culture, & is the largest city from Wisconsin to the Pacific Northwest. N don't forget Camp Snoopy in the Mall of America! :lol:

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It isn't even called Minneapolis Opera but Minnesota Opera!! :lol::lol:

I rest my case.

What case ... most people even from overseas are aware that many businesses/services in Minneapolis or St Paul's are called Minnesota to avoid the twin city rivalries - that's why its the MinnesotaVikings, Twins, Wild, Timberwolves, Thunder, Lynx, Swarm etc etc etc

If that is your case, then god help you

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The US lost 2012 and 2016 for a variety of reasons. None of those reasons included NYC or Chicago being too well-known. Recent voting trends show the IOC wants world capitals -- not Leipzigs. Minneapolis is an American Leipzig in the IOC's book.

Exactly.

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What case ... most people even from overseas are aware that many businesses/services in Minneapolis or St Paul's are called Minnesota to avoid the twin city rivalries - that's why its the MinnesotaVikings, Twins, Wild, Timberwolves, Thunder, Lynx, Swarm etc etc etc

If that is your case, then god help you

Most people from overseas have never heard of Minneapolis.

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