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If you look at history, having both SOG and WOG in the same country in close time frames is common. If you look at "recent voting history" you'll see Salt Lake and Atlanta. If the IOC is so fickle that you are going to argue that everything has changed since 2002, then everything could change again tomorrow.

First, if two Games happen for the same country in a narrow window, they will follow the Atlanta/SLC order. Summer first -- THEN Winter -- not the other way around. There's a simple reason for this: there are more Summer options than Winter ones. Host Winter Games first and the IOC will say "you've had your moment and there's nothing compelling us to come back so soon." Host Summer Games first and the IOC COULD say "well, they just hosted Symmer Games, but they're clearly the best of our three Winter options this cycle and we like them. After this they'll have to take a long breather though."

I think the IOCs attitude towards the US has changed dramatically since the 80's and 90's. Atlanta was not as wonderful as they hoped. The SLC bribery scandal made matters worse. Then came war with Iraq and an internationally offensive president-- not to mention a troublesome USOC with notoriously unstable leadership. The IOCs attitude towards the US has changed dramatically from the time they were willing to awards so many Games close together. And realistically, the only type of country that was ever going to host so frequently is an economic and sporting superpower -- which Canada is not.

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if everyone in this thread just agrees to agree with you will you please stop? i'm not sure how many more pages of you posting the exact same post on the damn bus drivers getting lost we can take. i

Why do you like to repeat yourself multiple times? Its very annoying.

In sum....

Snubbed? There is always a condescending arrogance and presumption that NY and Chicago offered the best bid and therefore there was some sense of residual anti-Americanism which was the dominant deciding factor in the decision. Sorry for raining on your parade but neither bid was the best in either bid cycle so there was no snubbing. If they were the best bid, this would be true but they simply were not.

1) With the exception of the sailing, London was at least if not more compact than NY, Paris and Madrid.

2) The last multi sport events the US has organised occured in 1996 and 2002. Canada has hosted multi sport events in 2010 and 2015 (Pan Ams)

3) Huh? If you link the two then countries capable of hosting both - USA, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Canada, Japan, China etc - tsimply won't bid for the WOG keeping their powder dry for SOG bids especially if they are going to be penalised for doing so. This will damage the WOG for the IOC and they simply are not going to do that.

4) So what? Brazil is hardly an Olympic giant. There is no reason why a country cannot turn around its performance in medals in 5 years let alone 12. And one of the issues between the IOC and USOC was that the large slice of money the US got meant their athletes had much better funding, creating an artificial playing field. So awarding the game to a city in a nation which has underperformed leading to investment is likely to level that particular playing field.

What does the size of America's population have to do with? Will all of them travel to support the games? the award goes to a city of sufficient size to effectively host. Canada is a G8 member currently like the USA and Canada's economy is in better shape. Where is all this private money to host a US games going to come from considering the current state of the US economy

And if Toronto bid against a US city who offered a mediocre plan with limited legacy and simply expect to get the games, and the IOC think that Canada offers the best bid, then there is no reason why Toronto should not be selected to host the 2024 Olympiad

Fine. "Rejected" if you prefer. 2012 and 2016 were both too soon for the US anyway. NYC deserved to lose because of the stadium. I never said it was a compact bid for NYC. Chicago had a great bid, but it was too soon and there were too many problems with the USOC. Chicago did NOT deserve to be eliminated first. THAT is what prompted the word "snub." either way the IOC has shot down two of the US top three cities and can't expect to do it until the 40s without souring the relationship.

1.) The 2012 bidders were all more or less on a par in terms of compactness (apart from Moscow). Again, if memory serves, Madrid was the most compact by a small margin. My point holds though because London was not selected for its compactness.

2.) Are you seriously going to challenge the US' sports hosting credentials? Olympics, World Cup, host of world championships and various other tournaments. That doesnt even include the fact that we've got the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and MLS -- a professional sports network that far outpaces any other country. Part of why that pro-sports network is possible is the NCAA -- a vast collegiate sports machine full of athletes, venues, coaches and a massive spectator base. So what if we haven't staged a major multi-sport event recently? We obviously can do so and have many times before. There's a reason for our athletic success. There's a reason so much of the world trains in the US. It's because we have great sports organization.

3.) Of course strong nations (and potential Summer hosts) will continue to bid for Winter Games. They just won't expect to turn around and immediately host Sumner Games as well -- especially if they have invested little in summer sports. Even if they do adopt those expectations, the IOC won't fulfill them.

4.) Brazil won because it is in South America and had never hosted. Canada can make no such claim. Your argument that the US paid for its medals with IOC money is offensive and dismissive of American athletes and sporting tradition. As for the revenue deal, formerly the US cut was proportional to the amount of capital the IOC got from the US. Under the new deal it is lopsided in the IOC's favor. Unlike other countries, US athletes get no federal funding. No matter what our athletic programs will be funded somehow because we are a nation that cares about sport. When you speak of "leveling the playing field" what you mean is knocking off the top dog.

A bigger population means more money, a bigger pool of athletes to draw on and a bigger spectator base -- all of which must be appealing. I find it HYSTERICAL that a CANADIAN would ask the US how they will pay for Summer Games. If that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is. The economy isn't booming, but it's sure not on it's knees either. There is plenty of corporate capital to stage the Olympics many times over. You don't see NBC, Coke, McDonalds, P&G, Dow, GE, and Visa pulling out do you? We now have a global economy anyway and everyone is affected regardless.

Finally, if you want to tilt at windmills and extol the merits of Toronto -- do it in a Toronto thread. This thread is labeled USA 2024.

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2.) Are you seriously going to challenge the US' sports hosting credentials? Olympics, World Cup, host of world championships and various other tournaments. That doesnt even include the fact that we've got the NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, and MLS -- a professional sports network that far outpaces any other country. Part of why that pro-sports network is possible is the NCAA -- a vast collegiate sports machine full of athletes, venues, coaches and a massive spectator base. So what if we haven't staged a major multi-sport event recently? We obviously can do so and have many times before. There's a reason for our athletic success. There's a reason so much of the world trains in the US. It's because we have great sports organization.

4.) Brazil won because it is in South America and had never hosted. Canada can make no such claim. Your argument that the US paid for its medals with IOC money is offensive and dismissive of American athletes and sporting tradition. As for the revenue deal, formerly the US cut was proportional to the amount of capital the IOC got from the US. Under the new deal it is lopsided in the IOC's favor. Unlike other countries, US athletes get no federal funding. No matter what our athletic programs will be funded somehow because we are a nation that cares about sport. When you speak of "leveling the playing field" what you mean is knocking off the top dog.

A bigger population means more money, a bigger pool of athletes to draw on and a bigger spectator base -- all of which must be appealing. I find it HYSTERICAL that a CANADIAN would ask the US how they will pay for Summer Games. If that's not the pot calling the kettle black I don't know what is. The economy isn't booming, but it's sure not on it's knees either. There is plenty of corporate capital to stage the Olympics many times over. You don't see NBC, Coke, McDonalds, P&G, Dow, GE, and Visa pulling out do you? We now have a global economy anyway and everyone is affected regardless.

Finally, if you want to tilt at windmills and extol the merits of Toronto -- do it in a Toronto thread. This thread is labeled USA 2024.

Experience in all of those are great and no doubt help the country, but say "comfortably" pass Canada is a wrong word use. Canada has hosted 4 commonwealth and 3 pan ams (as of 2015) + Olympics and WC in sports too. The USA might be ahead in experience (I don't know how to judge this?) but not comfortably.

I don't think Crusader was saying USA bought medals. Leave that to Qatar and Azerbaijan.

I don't think its hysterical at all :lol: USA can stage the games tomorrow if it wanted too.

And we are all guilty of it :lol:

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Experience in all of those are great and no doubt help the country, but say "comfortably" pass Canada is a wrong word use. Canada has hosted 4 commonwealth and 3 pan ams (as of 2015) + Olympics and WC in sports too. The USA might be ahead in experience (I don't know how to judge this?) but not comfortably.

And we are all guilty of it :lol:

The US is COMFORTABLY ahead of Canada in terms of sports organization. The NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL and MLS alone give it that qualification. And remind me when Canada host the WC....

And no. We are not all guilty of peddling our pet bids in every thread under the sun. I don't outline the details of hypothetical US bids in South Africa threads or Paris threads. Why must you guys go in and on about Toronto in an American thread?

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3) Huh? If you link the two then countries capable of hosting both - USA, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Canada, Japan, China etc - tsimply won't bid for the WOG keeping their powder dry for SOG bids especially if they are going to be penalised for doing so. This will damage the WOG for the IOC and they simply are not going to do that.

Crusader, keep this in mind... Forget Vancouver 2010.. what about Montreal 1976? Forget the circumstances of those Olympics because that's not the point here. It makes Canada a more recent SUMMER host than Italy, than Japan, certainly than France, and by default, South Africa if they choose to jump into the race. Pile on top of that having hosted a Winter Olympics more recently than any of their competition, and yes, past hostings will be a hinderance for Toronto no matter how good their bid is. Here's the question they (and pretty much any other bid from any other country) has to ask themselves.. how do they stack up against the competition? Because that's all that matters when it comes down to it.

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The US is COMFORTABLY ahead of Canada in terms of sports organization. The NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL and MLS alone give it that qualification. And remind me when Canada host the WC....

And no. We are not all guilty of peddling our pet bids in every thread under the sun. I don't outline the details of hypothetical US bids in South Africa threads or Paris threads. Why must you guys go in and on about Toronto in an American thread?

With the latter four have franchises in Canada. THe most successful franchises in the NHL are in Canada not the USA, along with Toronto FC in the MLS which even without a playoff appearance, continues to get crowds of 19.000+. THE USA is not COMFORTABLY ahead. It is not at all. I only bring it up when its brought up someone else. Off topic is in every thread here. It is the nature of the forums.

Crusader, keep this in mind... Forget Vancouver 2010.. what about Montreal 1976? Forget the circumstances of those Olympics because that's not the point here. It makes Canada a more recent SUMMER host than Italy, than Japan, certainly than France, and by default, South Africa if they choose to jump into the race. Pile on top of that having hosted a Winter Olympics more recently than any of their competition, and yes, past hostings will be a hinderance for Toronto no matter how good their bid is. Here's the question they (and pretty much any other bid from any other country) has to ask themselves.. how do they stack up against the competition? Because that's all that matters when it comes down to it.

Off course, but is Canada in Asia or Europe? In continental rotation Canada is blessed to be in NA with just two viable hosts. Otherwise if it was in Asia or Europe there are other options to go to and Canada off course would be overlooked.

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But Rio did had all venues in Rio Proper. + New transportation links will reduce time. Off course not but the compact plan helps. Toronto is going to have to propose something very compact or there won't be a chance of winning.

So you're admitting then, that a "compact" plan is what it's gonna take to win? Doesn't sound very compelling at all. N yeah, Rio has all the events within it's city proper, but it's still a spread out, 4-cluster concept that'll take time to get to even with the new transportation links. And as AF already pointed out, even if Rio's bid was the most compact, which it wasn't, that's NOT what won them the 2016 Games.

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Economic powerhouse - $10.6 trillion in debt, and continuing to pile it on, slow economic growth. It has been snubbed twice- due to its cockiness and unwillingness to agree to a fair deal

Even a weak U.S. economy is still stronger than a strong Canadian one. Heck, NBC still managed to pay the IOC $4.4 BILLION that the IOC was more than happy to gobble up, regardless of debt. N Canadians can be just as 'cocky N unwillingly' to agree to a fair deal. It's not a unique American trait.

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With the latter four have franchises in Canada. THe most successful franchises in the NHL are in Canada not the USA, along with Toronto FC in the MLS which even without a playoff appearance, continues to get crowds of 19.000+.

4 franchises out of how many? And please research the attendance of pro-sports in the US. It's light years beyond Canada.

Finally, this isn't just topic drift. This is Canadians plugging Toronto in an American thread when there are PLENTY of Toronto threads to accommodate you.

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To be frank, the IOC knows both Canada and the US are well-experienced at hosting a variety of sports. It's a given for both bids as far as I'm concerned. There are countries where this is not the case (which is why the IOC wanted to see the Rio PanAms before awarding them the Olympics) but neither the US nor Canada fall into this category.

Crusader, keep this in mind... Forget Vancouver 2010.. what about Montreal 1976? Forget the circumstances of those Olympics because that's not the point here. It makes Canada a more recent SUMMER host than Italy, than Japan, certainly than France, and by default, South Africa if they choose to jump into the race. Pile on top of that having hosted a Winter Olympics more recently than any of their competition, and yes, past hostings will be a hinderance for Toronto no matter how good their bid is. Here's the question they (and pretty much any other bid from any other country) has to ask themselves.. how do they stack up against the competition? Because that's all that matters when it comes down to it.

THAT'S the point I think. Canada needs to compare itself with France, the UK, Germany, Italy, South Africa etc. and ask why its country should be asking for a fourth Games in 50 years. None of these countries would expect that and some are a fair amount bigger in terms of population and more successful in the Summer Games.

The US is an exception, we all recognise that, it's going to have more Games because of its sporting domination and economic might. Why do some Canadians keep trying to compare their country to this Olympic and World superpower in terms of when it deserves to host? As far as I can tell, the only reason is that it happens to be on the same continent, because people from Canadian-sized (in terms of power) European countries wouldn't elevate themselves to this level.

Don't get me wrong, Toronto could beat-out any of these countries and could beat the US with a good enough bid. But I think we have to recognise Canada as sporting power, but not a sporting superpower. It, like my country, will be hosting a lot less often than the US, it's just the way of things. Just because North America has two capable hosts, doesn't mean they're equals. And Canada does very well out of the Olympic movement with the Winter editions - and indeed, that's where most of its efforts in developing athletes seem to be anyway, so who can blame us for considering Vancouver 2010 to probably be "enough" for Canada for now?

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Snubbed? There is always a condescending arrogance and presumption that NY and Chicago offered the best bid and therefore there was some sense of residual anti-Americanism which was the dominant deciding factor in the decision. Sorry for raining on your parade but neither bid was the best in either bid cycle so there was no snubbing. If they were the best bid, this would be true but they simply were not.

Neither was Rio, though. Technically, they were even lower than Doha, but yet Doha was tossed to the wayside & given a smokescreen excuse of not ideal dates.

N yes, "snubbed". I remember last summer here, when the 2018 vote took place & how certain people were just outraged that Munich got "snubbed" for the 2018 Winter Games. Even a couple of German athletes came out & denouncing the IOC. So yet again on these boards with the bias American rants, being 'condescending & arrogant' is also not strictly just American traits. It's quite clear that many other nationalities have it, too.

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So what? Brazil is hardly an Olympic giant.

What does the size of America's population have to do with? Will all of them travel to support the games? the award goes to a city of sufficient size to effectively host.

Canada is not Brazil. South America never hosted the Games before. Canada has plain N simple.

And if population doesn't have anything to do with it, & "the award goes to a city of sufficient size to effectively host", then Y did China make the big stink of being "the most populated country on earth that hasn't hosted the Games", & the IOC just ate it up. All of China's 1.3 billion didn't travel to Beijing 2008 to support the Games. So I don't know why you're even coming up with this.

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4 franchises out of how many? And please research the attendance of pro-sports in the US. It's light years beyond Canada.

Finally, this isn't just topic drift. This is Canadians plugging Toronto in an American thread when there are PLENTY of Toronto threads to accommodate you.

Not 4 franchises teams in those leagues + games hosted from the NFL. It is not like its light years beyond, it might be ahead but not light years (which would entail almost no experience).

I wasn't the one to bring it in at all. If an American goes and lists opinions off course I am going to defend the city. Above I tried to move along the discussion by asking what the timelines for an American bid would be but people including yourself continued to ramble on about something else.

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The US is COMFORTABLY ahead of Canada in terms of sports organization. The NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL and MLS alone give it that qualification. And remind me when Canada host the WC....

And no. We are not all guilty of peddling our pet bids in every thread under the sun. I don't outline the details of hypothetical US bids in South Africa threads or Paris threads. Why must you guys go in and on about Toronto in an American thread?

That would be in Sports that most of the world does not participate in ...... and you are talking about events held over an entire season. The MLS is a minor sport in the USA

I am talking of focused multi sport events held within a 2 week period involving a range of different discipline.

And I hardly think experience of holding certain events which by 2024 will be over 28years in the past is the same as holding a multisport athletic/swimming/rowing etc etc etc event within the last 10years

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Does anyone think a bid for Columbus, Ohio would do any good? Nice location, already have a massive stadium (The Horseshoe), etc.

Not to sound harsh here, but.. you're not actually serious, are you? Columbus, Ohio hosting the world's biggest sporting event? Need more than a big stadium and a couple of big arenas for that. Please don't ask us to take this question seriously or else you're going to get laughed out of these forums. I'm sorry, but it would be a joke for Columbus to throw their hat into the ring as anything other than a support city for Cleveland or Cincinnati.

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Please don't ask us to take this question seriously or else you're going to get laughed out of these forums.

It's going to take a lot more than that to get me to leave the forums

And yes, I was being serious. How can you possibly say Cleveland and Cincinnati would be better choices than the capital of Ohio? I love Cleveland, but jesus.

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It's going to take a lot more than that to get me to leave the forums

And yes, I was being serious. How can you possibly say Cleveland and Cincinnati would be better choices than the capital of Ohio? I love Cleveland, but jesus.

Who's behind me for an entrance exam before posting on GB?

What are you smoking?

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Do you think the IOC really wants to test that theory? Do you really think that a favorable relationship with the USOC is worthless to them? Do you really think there would be ZERO financial/PR repercussions for them? Everything would go on as usual while the USOC sulked in the corner?

I think the IOC is just as likely to take some unspoken glee out of snubbing the USOC. Why they heck would the IOC case of the USOC folks got their feelings hurt?

THe most successful franchises in the NHL are in Canada not the USA,

Nah, not going to touch that with a Leafs fan.

Who's behind me for an entrance exam before posting on GB?

I'll take his post over a great many made by people with 1,000+ posts.

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It's going to take a lot more than that to get me to leave the forums

And yes, I was being serious. How can you possibly say Cleveland and Cincinnati would be better choices than the capital of Ohio? I love Cleveland, but jesus.

Not at all. I understand people love throwing their favorite cities into the mix, but think before you post. Do you think Columbus could actually compete with American cities like NYC, LA, and SanFran to host the olympics, and if they somehow got past that stage compete with cities like Tokyo or Paris?

Who's behind me for an entrance exam before posting on GB?

What are you smoking?

lol. I am :D

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Columbus is far from my favorite city.

I still don't understand how my suggestion of Cleveland is more acceptable than Columbus though. I'm still waiting for that response.

:blink: Where have you been? After 184 pages, you haven't yet figured out that THE ONLY US cities competitive and capable enough to mount, big, stage AND compete for a Summer Olympics are those with the size, clout, cache of LA, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco (and possibly Philadelphia), and you throw in middling mid-Western cities like the 3 Ohio "C"s with a straight face??

Even Indianapolis might have a better chance than any of the 3 "C"s. At least they've hosted a PanAm Games, a SuperBowl and and US Swim trials. Why do u think any Tulsa talk is the laughing stock of these boards?? <_<

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Columbus is far from my favorite city.

I still don't understand how my suggestion of Cleveland is more acceptable than Columbus though. I'm still waiting for that response.

Cleveland is a far more internationally recognised city, with its 3 major league sports teams and such cultural icons as the Music Hall of Fame. It also has an large international airport which serves as a hub of one of the Big3 airlines. It also probably as greater hotel room capacity in line with IOC requirements

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Cleveland is a far more internationally recognised city, with its 3 major league sports teams and such cultural icons as the Music Hall of Fame. It also has an large international airport which serves as a hub of one of the Big3 airlines. It also probably as greater hotel room capacity in line with IOC requirements

That's not saying much considering Cleveland isn't internationally recognized that much either.

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And yes, I was being serious. How can you possibly say Cleveland and Cincinnati would be better choices than the capital of Ohio? I love Cleveland, but jesus.

Actually, none of Ohio's cities would qualify for the size N stature of the Olympic Games of today. The only Midwestern city that could seriously be considered is Chicago. That's of course if they R interested.

Cincinnati tired for 2012 N the USOC was quick to send them back home, along with Tampa, & for good reasons, too. I don't know Y Q01 said that, maybe he was joking, or at least I hope that he was.

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