Blacksheep 42 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Why does the stadium have to be in Manhattan again? I think it should be Queens and by 2024, the NY Jets will be close to being able to exercise their release clause in New Jersey Link to post Share on other sites
stryker 62 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 How many cities have a use for a 20,000 mixed use facility in the USA? Unless a city is getting an MLS team, not many. As big as high school football is, it wouldn't be a problem. Link to post Share on other sites
PotatoChips 11 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 ^^ It might be expensive, but will leave a proper lasting legacy (and bring the main stadium back to Manhattan). My idea for a NYC 2024 plan: Manhattan venues: Olympic Stadium - Athletics/Ceremonies - NEW Olympic Beach Volleyball Center- Beach Volleyball - TEMPORARY Olympic Rowing/Canoeing course - Rowing/Canoeing - TEMPORARY Olympic Village - NEW Javits Convention Center - Main Media Center - EXISTING/NEW Javits Convention Center - Wrestling, Judo, Tae-Kwon Do, Weightlifting, Table Tennis, Badminton, Rythmic Gymnstics - EXISTING Madison Square Garden - Basketball Finals, Gymnastics - EXISTING Central Park - Triathlon - EXISTING 69th Regiment Armory - Fencing - EXISTING Bronx: 369th Regiment Armory - Boxing - EXISTING Baker Field at Columbia University - Field Hockey (the existing field hockey and soccer pitch will be temporarily removed to have a temporary secondary Field Hockey venue) - EXISTING/TEMPORARY Pelham Bay Shooting, Slalom and Pentathlon Center - Shooting, Modern Pentathlon, Canoe/Kayak Slalom - TEMPORARY Olympic BMX Center - BMX - TEMPORARY Olympic Velodrome - Cycling - NEW Split Rock Golf Course - Golf - EXISTING Queens: USTA Billie Jean King National Tennis Center - Tennis - EXISTING Olympic Aquatics Center - Swimming, Diving, Waterpolo -EXISTING/NEW Archery Stadium at the Unisphere - Archery - TEMPORARY Brooklyn: Barclays Center - Volleyball - EXISTING Breezy Point Marina - Sailing, Marathon Start - EXISTING Staten Island: Greenbelt Equestrian Center - Equestrian - TEMPORARY Fresh Kills Park - Mountain Biking - TEMPORARY Fort Wadsworth - Road Cycling - TEMPORARY New Jersey: Prudential Center - Handball - EXISTING New Meadowlands Stadium - Football Finals - EXISTING Louis Brown Athletic Center - Basketball Preliminaries - EXISTING Rutgers Stadium - Football Preliminaries - EXISTING Red Bull Arena - Rugby 7's - EXISTING Elsewhere in the US: Buffalo - Ralph Wilson Stadium - Football Preliminaries - EXISTING Washington DC - FedEx Field - Football Preliminaries - EXISTING Philadelphia - Lincoln Financial Field - Football Preliminaries - EXISTING Boston - Foxborough Stadium - Football Preliminaries - EXISTING What do you think? This plan is of course based on the idea of the IZOD center and Nassau Coliseum being non-existent by 2024. 20 Existing venues 3 New Venues 11 Temporary Venues 34 venues overall. Put the olympic stadium in Staten Island and the olympic village on Governers Island. Link to post Share on other sites
NY20?? 98 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Please. No damn islands, no building artificial land on the Hudson, no Manhattan stadiums. The best model is the London model - regeneration of worn out urban space in an outer-borough. Link to post Share on other sites
Blacksheep 42 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Please. No damn islands, no building artificial land on the Hudson, no Manhattan stadiums. The best model is the London model - regeneration of worn out urban space in an outer-borough. Agreed - but Stratford is not really an outer borough in London. Somewhere on the Queens/Brooklyn border might be best? Link to post Share on other sites
zekekelso 794 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 I'm convinced the important question for a US 2024 bid isn't how or where, but why. Any of the major cities can come up with a list of venues... build them, reuse them, whatever. We are good at that. The tough question is why. Why does NYC (or Chicago, Dallas, whatever) want to host? It can't just be, "We are a great city and will host a great games." Will the games transform a city? Inspire a generation? Open new frontiers? Being about world peace? Link to post Share on other sites
PyroKinesis 61 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Oh please, you know none of those things are on the voters minds when they select a city. Link to post Share on other sites
goldstandard 4 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Oh please, you know none of those things are on the voters minds when they select a city. Of course they are; you just don't realize that. Besides, you probably aren't a member of the IOC anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
nykfan845 51 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Of course they are; you just don't realize that. Besides, you probably aren't a member of the IOC anyway. You're not one either, so how can you say "of course"? Each IOC member votes for different reasons, but we can only guess why. Link to post Share on other sites
BABYLON 14 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Please. No damn islands, no building artificial land on the Hudson, no Manhattan stadiums. The best model is the London model - regeneration of worn out urban space in an outer-borough. Yes! No white elephants. Link to post Share on other sites
PotatoChips 11 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 NYC should be the only city on the East Coast to bid for the olympics. Boston and Philly could host great games however... Philly is 2 hours away from NYC. Why would Philly want to invest in building more arenas and stadiums in the area that would never be used again when NYC has plenty already built. Boston is a great city, but There are only 2 main venues that are already constructed...and Fenway Park is not an olympic class venue no matter how historic it is. Why would it make sense to build a whole olympic complex when NYC already has over half of the venues needed. Link to post Share on other sites
NY20?? 98 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 Oh please, you know none of those things are on the voters minds when they select a city. "Inspire a generation" and "transform [part of] a city" seemed to have tipped it for London. Link to post Share on other sites
PotatoChips 11 Posted August 18, 2012 Report Share Posted August 18, 2012 ^^ It might be expensive, but will leave a proper lasting legacy (and bring the main stadium back to Manhattan). My idea for a NYC 2024 plan: Manhattan venues: Olympic Stadium - Athletics/Ceremonies - NEW Olympic Beach Volleyball Center- Beach Volleyball - TEMPORARY Olympic Rowing/Canoeing course - Rowing/Canoeing - TEMPORARY Olympic Village - NEW Javits Convention Center - Main Media Center - EXISTING/NEW Javits Convention Center - Wrestling, Judo, Tae-Kwon Do, Weightlifting, Table Tennis, Badminton, Rythmic Gymnstics - EXISTING Madison Square Garden - Basketball Finals, Gymnastics - EXISTING Central Park - Triathlon - EXISTING 69th Regiment Armory - Fencing - EXISTING Bronx: 369th Regiment Armory - Boxing - EXISTING Baker Field at Columbia University - Field Hockey (the existing field hockey and soccer pitch will be temporarily removed to have a temporary secondary Field Hockey venue) - EXISTING/TEMPORARY Pelham Bay Shooting, Slalom and Pentathlon Center - Shooting, Modern Pentathlon, Canoe/Kayak Slalom - TEMPORARY Olympic BMX Center - BMX - TEMPORARY Olympic Velodrome - Cycling - NEW Split Rock Golf Course - Golf - EXISTING Queens: USTA Billie Jean King National Tennis Center - Tennis - EXISTING Olympic Aquatics Center - Swimming, Diving, Waterpolo -EXISTING/NEW Archery Stadium at the Unisphere - Archery - TEMPORARY Brooklyn: Barclays Center - Volleyball - EXISTING Breezy Point Marina - Sailing, Marathon Start - EXISTING Staten Island: Greenbelt Equestrian Center - Equestrian - TEMPORARY Fresh Kills Park - Mountain Biking - TEMPORARY Fort Wadsworth - Road Cycling - TEMPORARY New Jersey: Prudential Center - Handball - EXISTING New Meadowlands Stadium - Football Finals - EXISTING Louis Brown Athletic Center - Basketball Preliminaries - EXISTING Rutgers Stadium - Football Preliminaries - EXISTING Red Bull Arena - Rugby 7's - EXISTING Elsewhere in the US: Buffalo - Ralph Wilson Stadium - Football Preliminaries - EXISTING Washington DC - FedEx Field - Football Preliminaries - EXISTING Philadelphia - Lincoln Financial Field - Football Preliminaries - EXISTING Boston - Foxborough Stadium - Football Preliminaries - EXISTING What do you think? This plan is of course based on the idea of the IZOD center and Nassau Coliseum being non-existent by 2024. 20 Existing venues 3 New Venues 11 Temporary Venues 34 venues overall. This is way to much like the 2012 bid. Link to post Share on other sites
Lord David 225 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Actually it's a good mix of 2012, what's been built since the bid failed and brings the main stadium back to Manhattan. I wouldn't necessarily call it "way too much" like the 2012 bid, as we all know they had to settle for the backup Queens option for the main stadium at the end. Link to post Share on other sites
Lord David 225 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Why does the stadium have to be in Manhattan again? It doesn't. But it does bring the main site and focus on downtown (which was the core plus of the 2012 bid, the Queens location was not). And buy ensuring the stadium is mostly temporary, you have no problems with potential white elephants. It would simply be considered a public use facility post Olympics. I wouldn't be surprised if down the line this does happen (land reclamation) after all, there's some initial signs of it in that area and once you run out of proper land and can't or aren't willing to rejuvenate anymore (obviously you don't want to use any available green), then it makes sense to build on water (even if it is costly). Link to post Share on other sites
PotatoChips 11 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Possible NYC2024 Olympic venues Manhattan: Boxing-Radio City Music Hall- Cap. 5,000 Basketball-Madison Square Garden- Cap. 19,000 Field Hockey-Lawrence A. Wien Stadium- Cap. 17,000 Fencing, Judo, Table Tennis, Taekwondo, Weightlifting, Wrestling-Jacob Javits Center- Cap.3,000 Olympic Village-Roosevelt Island Bronx: Equestrian- Cap. 7,000 Modern Pentathlon Golf-Van Courtland Park Badminton-Rose Hill Gymnasium- Cap. 3,500 Queens: Athletics/Ceremonies-Olympic Stadium- Cap.80,000 Tennis- National Tennis Center-Main Stadium Cap. 23,000 Sailing- The Rockaways Canoeing- Meadow Lake Staten Island: BMX-BMX stadium- Cap. 5,000 Cycling-Velodrome- Cap. 6,000 Archery-Richmond County Bank Ballpark- Cap. 7,000 Modern Pentatholon Brooklyn: Aquatics Center- Cap.15,000 Waterpolo- Cap. 5,000 Gymnastics-Barclays Center- Cap. 15,000 Beach Volleyball-MCU Park- Cap. 7,000 New Jersey: Indoor Volleyball-Louis Brown Athletic Center- Cap. 7,000 Rugby: Red Bull Arena- Cap. 25,000 Soccer/Football-Metlife Stadium, Citi Field, High Point Solutions Stadium, Yankee Stadium Link to post Share on other sites
Lord David 225 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 (edited) Capacities are far too low for a US Olympics, well below IOC guidelines. Sailing at Breezy Point was a perfect location, open sea, no obstructions. Meadow Lake is possibly far to small for rowing/canoeing. Either revitalize your 2012 concept, or if the downtown Olympic Plan happens, why not use that? You got more than 2km of frontage right there, just build temporary bridges and stands on the opposite side. There's plenty of indoor venues of high capacity you are forgetting. I'd use the Louis Brown Athletic Center (upgraded to 12,000) for Basketball Preliminaries. You're also forgetting quite a number of sports. Basketball Finals and Gymnastics could be grouped together, assuming you don't want to follow the 2012 plan of having Boxing Finals at MSG. I'm sure there's plenty of other flaws in your plan, perhaps I'll let others point it out. Edited August 19, 2012 by Lord David Link to post Share on other sites
Blacksheep 42 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 I don't think the USA will bid for 2024 but will focus on 2026 Rio in 2016 would lead to arguments that a games has been held in the same timezone. If Paris or a South African city enter the fray both will be incredibly difficult to beat and if the latter is Durban, neither would have any issues with the main stadium whilst any US city bar maybe LA would need to be incredibly creative. Personally an excellent 2026 games would be a great lauch pad for 2032 which incidentally would be the centenial LA games. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lord David 225 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Why should the US go for the lesser Winter Olympics when what's being offered is Reno, Denver (the IOC will surely remember their backing out of hosting 1976) and your proposal of Burlington? Go for the Summer games I tells ya, then perhaps if that fails try a Winter games consolation prize. Link to post Share on other sites
Blacksheep 42 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Why should the US go for the lesser Winter Olympics when what's being offered is Reno, Denver (the IOC will surely remember their backing out of hosting 1976) and your proposal of Burlington? Go for the Summer games I tells ya, then perhaps if that fails try a Winter games consolation prize. Spend $30m going up against some massive big guns - can the US afford another 2012 and 2016 style defeat? or less when under continental rotation it is the turn of North America to host 2026? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Lord David 225 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 There's no official continental rotation, if that were the case, then the US should bid for 2024, given a great opportunity to win. How about spending 30 million on a Winter bid for 2022, going against Euro bidders then failing? The US should not go to what's considered the consolation games, go for the real deal, the Summer Olympics. You had some Winter glory in 2002. Link to post Share on other sites
nykfan845 51 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 The US is not passing up 2024 for 2026. It just doesn't make sense. Link to post Share on other sites
Blacksheep 42 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 There's no official continental rotation, if that were the case, then the US should bid for 2024, given a great opportunity to win. How about spending 30 million on a Winter bid for 2022, going against Euro bidders then failing? The US should not go to what's considered the consolation games, go for the real deal, the Summer Olympics. You had some Winter glory in 2002. because after (west) Europe in 2006 , North America in 2010, (east) Europe in 2014 and Asia in 2018, the next in the loop would likely be in Western Europe. I cannot think of a US city that could beat Paris if Paris goes for it in 2024 ... forget the centenery ... Paris has all of the facilities as well as the desired legacy. Only if Madrid win in 2020 will things change, in my opinion Link to post Share on other sites
Athensfan 1081 Posted August 19, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Personally an excellent 2026 games would be a great lauch pad for 2032 which incidentally would be the centenial LA games. There's no question that the Winter Games are much less competitive and easier to land, however the payoff is nowhere near as big. Less risk, less reward. The most recent two North American Games (including the last US Games) were winter. Why should North America host three WOGs without an intervening SOG? That has never happened on any other continent and would be unprecedented. In fact, no continent other than North America has even hosted TWO WOGs without an intervening SOG (unless you count Sarajevo 84 and Albertville 92 -- which I don't because Europe also had Barcelona 92). As for the US following 2026 with a 2032 bid -- that's wishful thinking. The IOC is clearly much more intent on moving the Games around the globe than they once were. There is no possible way they will award the US the 2032 Summer Games in 2025 -- one year before they host in 2026. Those days are over. Perhaps the window would be shorter if the US hosted Summer Games first and then bid for Winter. The IOC has fewer Winter options and night need to relax their preferences. This will not work in reverse though. Think of the countries that recently abandoned Summer bids and were rewarded with winter Games: Canada and Russia. Neither is going to get Summer Games soon. There's no way either one would get two Games in 6 years. Would the IOC have given any consideration to Toronto 2016 following Vancouver 2010? Or Moscow 2020 following Sochi 2014? Sure SLC followed Atlanta, but that was a totally different time AND -- most importantly -- the SUMMER EDITION CAME FIRST. If the USOC lands Winter Games in 2026, the US won't host Summer Games until the 40s -- 50 years after Atlanta. Link to post Share on other sites
zekekelso 794 Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Rio in 2016 would lead to arguments that a games has been held in the same timezone. Rio isn't in the same time zone as any US city. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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