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Athensfan

USA 2024

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I would see a 2026 Winter Olympics games and then a 2032 Summer Games as they'd even have the centenary card to play and hopefully a 2026 games with no problems would enhance a US bid.

I don't think the 6 years gap only would be a problem - there are only so many places a games can be held.

A WOG could also be seen as a warm up for a SOG

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Delude yourself if you like but Samaranch said Well Done Atlanta because the games simply did not meet the standards of the IOC

Don't selectively quote. Samaranch called Atlanta "most exceptional"

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So there were massive problems with Atlanta, but the only two you can actually mention we're that the logo was arrogant, and there were some glitches with the software when people checked in? How the hell is a logo arrogant?

What is it about an Olympic posting board that brings out the negative badgers??

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Don't selectively quote. Samaranch called Atlanta "most exceptional"

I could say the same

"Juan Antonio Samaranch has a different view. Not only did the president of the International Olympic Committee insist on calling Atlanta's Games ``most exceptional'' instead of the ``best ever'' - ensuring he'll never be invited back for a Coke and Varsity chili dog - he seems intent on keeping the memory of them as the ``Glitch Games.'' alive.

Samaranch advised organizers of the 2002 Winter Games in Salt Lake City a few months ago to make sure out-of-town bus drivers are adequately trained. ``If not, they get lost, like it happened in former games,'' he said."

http://juneauempire.com/stories/071197/olympics.html

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``Commercialism in and of itself is not an evil - only when it becomes vulgar, bizarre and gross,'' Lucas said. ``That's what happened in Atlanta.''

(John Lucas, who has done extensive research on the history of the Olympic movement, Professor at Penn St)

"Nevertheless, the memory of Atlanta could be a negative when the next U.S. city bids for the Olympics, especially when powerful IOC officials such as vice president Richard Pound say Atlanta had a chance to show ``it was a world-class city, and it failed to do it.''

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I think if we're going to criticise Atlanta, it should be criticised on its own terms not on some wishy-washy notion that it stole the Centenery Games from Athens. That's completely unfair on Atlanta.

Athens was barely ready for 2004, so the IOC were completely right to ignore them for 1996. And as I understand it their bid was as arrogant as they come - believing essentially all they had to do was turn up to the vote and mention it was 100 years since 1896 and that they were the birthplace of the Games.

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``Commercialism in and of itself is not an evil - only when it becomes vulgar, bizarre and gross,'' Lucas said. ``That's what happened in Atlanta.''

Another person saying Atlanta was over-commercial, but can't say why. I'm sure you can google up more if you try. Heck, I'm sure you can google up people saying unkind things about every Olympics.

If you really have a buring desire to bash Atlanta, let's hear some specifics of why you didn't like the games... not detailless quotes from random people on the internet.

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I think if we're going to criticise Atlanta, it should be criticised on its own terms not on some wishy-washy notion that it stole the Centenery Games from Athens. That's completely unfair on Atlanta.

Athens was barely ready for 2004, so the IOC were completely right to ignore them for 1996. And as I understand it their bid was as arrogant as they come - believing essentially all they had to do was turn up to the vote and mention it was 100 years since 1896 and that they were the birthplace of the Games.

The IOC members had reasonable fears about Athens but after what they had experienced in Atlanta, most of them thought that even a badly prepared Athens would have done it much better (i still remember journalists and fans wearing " Don't blame me- i voted for Athens" t-shirts) . As for Melbourne or Toronto, they had no doubt about this. Atlanta had its qualities (great audience and good atmosphere) but let's face it: it was a logistical nightmare...

Having said that, i think that it's totally unfair to correlate any possible US bid with the memory of Atlanta. I still believe that if Chigago had won the 2016 bid we would experience a completely different games than those of 96... A US city can deliver great games and i definately think they should bid if Paris doesn't.

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The IOC members had reasonable fears about Athens but after what they had experienced in Atlanta, most of them thought that even a badly prepared Athens would have done it much better

1) What did they experience in Atlanta that was so horrible?

2) How are you privy to the thoughts of most IOC members?

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There are several U.S. cities that can put together very strong bids. I really hope that any future U.S. bid will focus more on the legacy aspect of hosting the Games. The pictures of abandoned stadiums and arenas in cities that recently hosted the Olympics are haunting. It’s almost importable to believe that the energy, fun and excitement we all saw on TV during the Games in these facilities are now replaced by ghostly emptiness. Locating future tenants for the venues should be on the top of the tasks list for any U.S. city trying to host the Games and that’s why Washington’s Mayor is trying not to rush into making a big decision in that regard.

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Another person saying Atlanta was over-commercial, but can't say why. I'm sure you can google up more if you try. Heck, I'm sure you can google up people saying unkind things about every Olympics.

If you really have a buring desire to bash Atlanta, let's hear some specifics of why you didn't like the games... not detailless quotes from random people on the internet.

Did you read the actual link? It goes into detail about why this guy said what he did and he provides examples of this.

1) What did they experience in Atlanta that was so horrible?

2) How are you privy to the thoughts of most IOC members?

Again, a number of IOC members have gone on record including the respected Dick Pound, former VP of the IOC who went on to become President of WADA.

These people have gone on record as to illuminate specifics of why they were unimpressed, Pound stating that Atlanta had failed to present itself as a World Class city despite being presented the opportunity.

People at this level and with this sort of experience DO NOT make these comments lightly or without due consideration.

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There are several U.S. cities that can put together very strong bids. I really hope that any future U.S. bid will focus more on the legacy aspect of hosting the Games. The pictures of abandoned stadiums and arenas in cities that recently hosted the Olympics are haunting. It’s almost importable to believe that the energy, fun and excitement we all saw on TV during the Games in these facilities are now replaced by ghostly emptiness. Locating future tenants for the venues should be on the top of the tasks list for any U.S. city trying to host the Games and that’s why Washington’s Mayor is trying not to rush into making a big decision in that regard.

This is exactly correct and despite much mocking from other members, I have always said any bidding city needs a team to take over the stadium post games.

With all of the stadia architectural experience in the USA it should be possible to build an athletics stadium and convert it into a football stadium. The Redskins desire to move back into the DC area should be of interest to Washington. The Hurricanes may want a stadium closer to their stadium in Miami. The Temple Owls may want their own downsized stadium in Philadelphia. A new MLS stadium could use a NY stadium OR the Jets could find themselves in a position to move out of the Metlife in accordance to their lease. But with San Francisco and Chicago you do wonder who might use the stadium post games.

In Europe it is different because there is that concept of a national stadium and London despite having Wembley and Twickenham, was very poorly served for a city of its size compared to other European cities in Athletics, something now addressed.

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Did you read the actual link?

There was no link.

Again, a number of IOC members have gone on record including the respected Dick Pound, former VP of the IOC who went on to become President of WADA.

Site please of IOC members saying that even a badly prepared Athens would have been much better than Atlanta.

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Another person saying Atlanta was over-commercial, but can't say why. I'm sure you can google up more if you try. Heck, I'm sure you can google up people saying unkind things about every Olympics.

If you really have a buring desire to bash Atlanta, let's hear some specifics of why you didn't like the games... not detailless quotes from random people on the internet.

Just for you:

Transportation for IOC officials and the media was described as an unmitigated mess. Samaranch even took the unprecedented step of telling SLC to make sure that their bus drivers were adequately trained. "If not they get lost as happened at a former games" ... they also had shoddy quality transportation.

There were so many technological breakdowns, the games became reminiscent of a Third World Country.

Street vendors were not controlled at all, and downtown was transformed into a tacky flea market.

This was because Atlanta found they had a shortfall in budget.

"From the IOC's point of view, most of Atlanta's problems can be traced to the reliance on private funding, which kept the organizers scrambling for money right up to the July 19 opening ceremony in order to meet a $1.7 billion budget."

"The IOC has made it clear it will never bring the Olympics to another city without assurances of significant public funding."

Finally there was a lack of cooperation between the Atlanta 96 organizers, the city government, the USOC and the IOC.

There was no link.

Site please of IOC members saying that even a badly prepared Athens would have been much better than Atlanta.

YES there was

http://juneauempire.com/stories/071197/olympics.html

I never said that IOC members said a badly prepared Athens would have been better. You cannot tell. But Atlanta got the gig and failed to deliver as they should have.

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Did you read the actual link? It goes into detail about why this guy said what he did and he provides examples of this.

Again, a number of IOC members have gone on record including the respected Dick Pound, former VP of the IOC who went on to become President of WADA.

These people have gone on record as to illuminate specifics of why they were unimpressed, Pound stating that Atlanta had failed to present itself as a World Class city despite being presented the opportunity.

People at this level and with this sort of experience DO NOT make these comments lightly or without due consideration.

Actually there really weren't many specific examples. The most specfic things mentioned were technological breakdowns (not specific - like what technological breakdowns?), under-trained drivers and shoddy buses (not specific - what made them undertrained? what do you mean by shoddy? ). You can't have a temporary event with temporary facilities and not expect some types of problems to arise with all that is involved.

I attended the games in Atlanta and anyone who says the games there were bad, obviously did not go to Atlanta for the games. The vendors I don't even really remember while walking down the streets of Atlanta. But you can't tell me there aren't street vendors in London or any other city that has hosted the games or could such as New York. The commercialism wasn't that bad. I mean in Olympic Park there was BudWorld which was actually pretty cool as did Swatch, GM and some others and Coca-Cola had their special area across the street from Centennial Olympic Park, but again, the commercialism didn't seem to gawdy. After all, that's what happens when private companies spend money on events like this. Taxpayers should not have to flip the bill for the Olympics especially when there are plenty of private ventures out there. Remember, the most profitable games every (1984 Los Angeles) was done solely with private money.

As for my transportation experience at Atlanta, I thought it was great. You parked at a lot outside the perimeter, paid $20 to park on the lot and then the bus ride downtown was free if you had tickets to the events. There was only one day, after a baseball game at Fulton County Stadium, where it seemed we had to wait a long time to catch the bus back to the lot. But you can't expect everything to be perfectly on time with such a major undertaking.

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Actually there really weren't many specific examples. The most specfic things mentioned were technological breakdowns (not specific - like what technological breakdowns?), under-trained drivers and shoddy buses (not specific - what made them undertrained? what do you mean by shoddy? ). You can't have a temporary event with temporary facilities and not expect some types of problems to arise with all that is involved.

I attended the games in Atlanta and anyone who says the games there were bad, obviously did not go to Atlanta for the games. The vendors I don't even really remember while walking down the streets of Atlanta. But you can't tell me there aren't street vendors in London or any other city that has hosted the games or could such as New York. The commercialism wasn't that bad. I mean in Olympic Park there was BudWorld which was actually pretty cool as did Swatch, GM and some others and Coca-Cola had their special area across the street from Centennial Olympic Park, but again, the commercialism didn't seem to gawdy. After all, that's what happens when private companies spend money on events like this. Taxpayers should not have to flip the bill for the Olympics especially when there are plenty of private ventures out there. Remember, the most profitable games every (1984 Los Angeles) was done solely with private money.

As for my transportation experience at Atlanta, I thought it was great. You parked at a lot outside the perimeter, paid $20 to park on the lot and then the bus ride downtown was free if you had tickets to the events. There was only one day, after a baseball game at Fulton County Stadium, where it seemed we had to wait a long time to catch the bus back to the lot. But you can't expect everything to be perfectly on time with such a major undertaking.

It is not my opinion. It is that of the IOC. The VP of the IOC does not go on public record without there being an issue.

London cracked down heavily on all non-improved commercial activities

And the directive regarding public funding comes directly from the IOC. Since 1996 bids for both the Summer and Winter Games have been rejected outright if this has not been forthcoming.

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I have no problem acknowledging that Atlanta fell short. I wasnt at those Games, but it was clear from the media there were problems. However, it absolutely was not a disaster.

This is not the place to spend pages and pages shredding/defending Atlanta. This is the place to look forward.

Atlanta was an anomalous choice on the part of the IOC. The conditions that enabled them to win are unlikely to exist ever again (following LA, centennial Games, weak bidding field). If anything, it seemed Atlanta took success a bit too much for granted and did not sufficiently prepare. That will not happen again.

We have now had a sizable gap between American Games. Nobody will take them for granted. We've also seen the strength of Sydney, the elegance of Athens, the grandeur of Beijing and the enthusiasm of London -- not to mention Rio and (probably) Tokyo yet to come. No one is going to want to offer anything less than the very best for American Olympics. I believe the IOC will understand that.

For this reason, regardless of one's opinion on Atlanta, it's time to move on and look to the future.

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It is not my opinion. It is that of the IOC. The VP of the IOC does not go on public record without there being an issue.

London cracked down heavily on all non-improved commercial activities

And the directive regarding public funding comes directly from the IOC. Since 1996 bids for both the Summer and Winter Games have been rejected outright if this has not been forthcoming.

I believe the issue of public funding has to do with a governmental body being responsible for any shortfalls. There is nothing I have seen in writing that says X-amount has to come from public sources.

And by the way, the Atlanta games made $11 million, so there was no deficit.

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I believe the issue of public funding has to do with a governmental body being responsible for any shortfalls. There is nothing I have seen in writing that says X-amount has to come from public sources.

And by the way, the Atlanta games made $11 million, so there was no deficit.

Agree but if the government does not make that guarantee then forget it.

Atlanta might have made a small profit, BUT it is the international perception which they failed to address.

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Transportation for IOC officials and the media was described as an unmitigated mess.

Described by who? Did they give example? Was transportation an "unmitigated mess"?

Samaranch even took the unprecedented step of telling SLC to make sure that their bus drivers were adequately trained. "If not they get lost as happened at a former games" ...

A few lost bus drivers? That's what you've got? Kinda like the bus drivers who got lost in London. Sheesh.

There were so many technological breakdowns, the games became reminiscent of a Third World Country.

Really? A third world country? Do tell.. please give examples of this third world state of technology.

Street vendors were not controlled at all,

They are supposed to be... what, thrown in jail? I've been to a bunch of Olympics.... all host cities still have street vendors.

and downtown was transformed into a tacky flea market.

Really... a flea market? And even if folks were sellling their junk in downtown Atlanta, who cares? How does that make the Atlanta games such a disaster?

I never said that IOC members said a badly prepared Athens would have been better.

You just agreed with somebody who did.

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Described by who? Did they give example? Was transportation an "unmitigated mess"?

A few lost bus drivers? That's what you've got? Kinda like the bus drivers who got lost in London. Sheesh.

Really? A third world country? Do tell.. please give examples of this third world state of technology.

They are supposed to be... what, thrown in jail? I've been to a bunch of Olympics.... all host cities still have street vendors.

Really... a flea market? And even if folks were sellling their junk in downtown Atlanta, who cares? How does that make the Atlanta games such a disaster?

You just agreed with somebody who did.

I am reporting to you the general comments made by the IOC and by American experts who have studied the history of the Olympic games and of the Atlanta games. When things are so bad that the President of the IOC tells the next American hosts to avoid such mistakes then it is spectacularly bad.

If you don't want to agree with them then fine.

But the majority of them do, including those who will be voting for future hosts. They regard the Atlanta games as over commercialised and trashy to such an extent, that they have insisted that every subsequent summer games since 1996 have the support of government to cover any funding shortfalls rather than trying to scrape the money together at the last moment.

In London there were problem with 2 buses on the first day ... unlike Atlanta where it continued to be a problem throughtout the games.

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When things are so bad that the President of the IOC tells the next American hosts to avoid such mistakes then it is spectacularly bad.

Good grief. You have one (1!) crack from the president about bus drivers getting lost. That's it! Why do you have a psychological need to turn that into "spectacularly bad"? Ridiculous.

The IOC president didn't say the Atlanta games were spectacularly bad. He said they were well done and exceptional.

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Described by who? Did they give example? Was transportation an "unmitigated mess"?

A few lost bus drivers? That's what you've got? Kinda like the bus drivers who got lost in London. Sheesh.

Really? A third world country? Do tell.. please give examples of this third world state of technology.

They are supposed to be... what, thrown in jail? I've been to a bunch of Olympics.... all host cities still have street vendors.

Really... a flea market? And even if folks were sellling their junk in downtown Atlanta, who cares? How does that make the Atlanta games such a disaster?

You just agreed with somebody who did.

Transportation

"These are as bad a first few days as I've seen," said one high-ranking IOC member.

The Olympic transportation system, which has separate components for athletes, journalists and spectators, has been denounced across the board for late arrivals and drivers who get lost.

At a daily meeting with the Atlanta Committee for the Olympic Games, IOC officials insisted on immediate action. "It was the toughest meeting ACOG has had to sit through," said one IOC official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

"Nobody ever believes it will be as difficult as it is. Now they believe it," said Dick Pound, a vice president of the International Olympic Committee.

Technology

The highly touted Olympic information system, which delivers scores and other results to news organizations, was suffering frequent failures. Glitches in the ACOG-IBM computer caused delays in getting results to news organizations throughout the weekend, and there were no results at all from some sports. While they tried to fix the problems, officials resorted to a system of distributing results manually--that is, having a messenger deliver the results by hand to news agencies, which then keyboarded the information. The IOC summoned IBM Chairman Louis Gerstner to an emergency meeting in Atlanta. A spokesman for IBM did not return a telephone call Sunday. The Associated Press, which distributes Olympic results to 1,500 newspapers across the nation, was unable to provide complete statistics because of the problems.

"It is disappointing to know that what was billed as a state-of-the-art results service can't even produce bare scores in some cases," said Terry Taylor, AP sports editor. "The Olympics are the single most important event in sports," she said. "ACOG's inability to provide full results from these events is a disservice to our members and to their readers."

An unmitigated disaster

The Associated Press reports on the efforts of Olympics organizers and transportation officials in London, where next year's games will be held:

"No one wants another Atlanta. The 1996 Games provided a cautionary tale of Olympic travel woes — with bus drivers getting lost, athletes arriving moments before their events and overloaded trains that couldn’t get residents home. It prompted the International Olympic Committee to lay out demands to make sure it didn’t happen again." “Atlanta was an unmitigated transport disaster,”

rail expert Christian Wolmar said. “All the other Olympics — Beijing and Sydney — have learned their lessons.”

Journalist Ronald DuPont recalling his transport experiences:

"On my first night at the Olympics, the bus driver taking me and about 35 other people back to our cars got lost. Our half-hour trip took 1 1/2 hours, and we joked that we got the "scenic route."

"On my second night, another bus driver prepared to get on the wrong highway until a chorus of Atlanta natives on the bus yelled in unison, directing him to the correct road."

"Last night, on my way to the Olympics, our bus took the sideview mirror off a merging Jeep. (We pulled over to the side of the road and sat for a half-hour while police filled out their reports.) Then, when we got on the bus to head back, an Olympics representative got on the bus and publicly asked if there was anyone who could give our driver directions on how to get to the drop-off point. On the same night, a bus driver pulled to the side of the highway and promptly quit, saying the job was too dangerous. The lines to get on the busses are often thousands of people deep, and I've waited as long as an hour in the sun to board a bus."

There is masses more

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I could say the same

"Juan Antonio Samaranch has a different view. Not only did the president of the International Olympic Committee insist on calling Atlanta's Games ``most exceptional'' instead of the ``best ever'' - ensuring he'll never be invited back for a Coke and Varsity chili dog - he seems intent on keeping the memory of them as the ``Glitch Games.'' alive.

Samaranch advised organizers of the 2002 Winter Games in Salt Lake City a few months ago to make sure out-of-town bus drivers are adequately trained. ``If not, they get lost, like it happened in former games,'' he said."

http://juneauempire....7/olympics.html

Doesn't sound like a quote. The above sounds like you just copied from an editorial. Your statement was that Atlanta was a car crash, then toned down as "unexceptional", and then you selectively quoted from the closing ceremony. At the end of the day, Samaranch said "well done Atlanta... a most exceptional games".

Let's close this out - there is simply zero evidence for your assertions of Atlanta being a "car crash".

I could say the same

"Juan Antonio Samaranch has a different view. Not only did the president of the International Olympic Committee insist on calling Atlanta's Games ``most exceptional'' instead of the ``best ever'' - ensuring he'll never be invited back for a Coke and Varsity chili dog - he seems intent on keeping the memory of them as the ``Glitch Games.'' alive.

Samaranch advised organizers of the 2002 Winter Games in Salt Lake City a few months ago to make sure out-of-town bus drivers are adequately trained. ``If not, they get lost, like it happened in former games,'' he said."

http://juneauempire....7/olympics.html

Doesn't sound like a quote. The above sounds like you just copied from an editorial. Your statement was that Atlanta was a car crash, then toned down as "unexceptional", and then you selectively quoted from the closing ceremony. At the end of the day, Samaranch said "well done Atlanta... a most exceptional games".

Let's close this out - there is simply zero evidence for your assertions of Atlanta being a "car crash".

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