Jump to content

USA 2024


Athensfan
 Share

Recommended Posts

Do you think the IOC would shower North America with all this love with a 2022 WOG and 2024 SOG. Hmmmm, I'm not saying its impossible but I'm starting to think if the cards are dealt right and everything falls into place properly it is definitely a possibility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bidding is bidding. Two times and the next bid being the third.

Disagree. Bidding is bidding if it's recent. If the Toronto 2024 bid bears little to no resemblance to the 1996 bid, why does that count for anything? That's like saying Cape Town 2004 means much of anything for South Africa. Or that Paris 1992 comes into play for their 2024 bid. If you want to put a number on Toronto's bid attempts, go right ahead. Personally, I don't think it makes a difference unless it's evolved from the same bid. Even Paris probably would have trouble making that claim having sat out 2 cycles.

I think the best way to deal with this Canada USA issue is this who was the last host for both Summer and Winter Games it was the USA that hosted the last 2 Summer Olympics in North America Los Angeles 1984 and Atlanta 1996 and by 2024 it will have been 48 years since Canada last hosted it only Summer Olympics Games Montreal 1976 so really it's Canada turn to host the next Games and who was the last winter Olympic host in North America it was Vancouver Canada 2010 and before that it was Salt Lake City 2002 and before that it was Calgary Canada 1988 so it's USA turn to host the next Winter Olympics.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. I've never been a believer in the whole "turns" concept or that you can predict Olympic rotation. Besides, do you really think from 2022 to 2034, a total of 7 cycles, North America is going to land 4 of those? Not a chance! Again, the IOC has no need to even out hosting duties between the United States and Canada. Canada got the last Olympics, so shouldn't the United States get the next one if you're thinking along those lines? I know you're trying to separate Winter and Summer, but obviously 1 does affect the other. There's no issue between Canada and the United States. Canada has had 3 Olympics in the past 40 years. There's exactly 2 other countries to have hosted multiple Olympics in that span.. obviously the United States is one, South Korea is the other. You have to stretch back into the 1960s to find another country that has hosted both a Winter and the Summer. And yet we're supposed to treat Canada as if they haven't hosted enough, in part because of their neighbors to the south? Forget comparisons to the United States.. put them up against Tokyo or Rome or Paris if they wind up in the 2024 race against Toronto and talk about who's been waiting longer.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Disagree. Bidding is bidding if it's recent. If the Toronto 2024 bid bears little to no resemblance to the 1996 bid, why does that count for anything? That's like saying Cape Town 2004 means much of anything for South Africa. Or that Paris 1992 comes into play for their 2024 bid. If you want to put a number on Toronto's bid attempts, go right ahead. Personally, I don't think it makes a difference unless it's evolved from the same bid. Even Paris probably would have trouble making that claim having sat out 2 cycles.

2008 was an improvement over 1996 and 2024 likely will be an improvement over 2008. It would be dumb of them not to mention their two previous bids. Sochi bid for 2002 returned in 2014 and won. That's a recent example of something that contradicts your point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Even though the US and the IOC came to a revenue sharing agreement which is totally great, I can still see a lot of resentment within the IOC and its members. Just because a deal was agreed upon doesn't mean it has instantly healed all the relationships that were negatively affected. Just my two cents! I still think a Winter Olympics can be won by the USA within the next 1-2 cycles. It's due to come back to North America. How many hosting options are there for the WOG, not many. The USA and Canada will be counted on to host every 20 years.

Except the IOC CLEARLY got a sweetheart deal. The USOC is settling for a whopping 50% cut in future revenue AND paying the IOC's administrative expenses (something NO other country would be asked to do). If all that doesn't curry favor then nothing will and I'm inclined to think the US should just pack up and go home. There is nothing more they can do to demonstrate a desire to play ball. If the IOC is still prickly they're not in touch with reality.

Do you think the IOC would shower North America with all this love with a 2022 WOG and 2024 SOG. Hmmmm, I'm not saying its impossible but I'm starting to think if the cards are dealt right and everything falls into place properly it is definitely a possibility.

I do think that is HIGHLY unlikely. I won't say impossible because nothing is impossible, but this is close.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except the IOC CLEARLY got a sweetheart deal. The USOC is settling for a whopping 50% cut in future revenue AND paying the IOC's administrative expenses (something NO other country would be asked to do).

Precisely! So what in the world could the IOC still hold "resentment" over when they obviously strong-armed the USOC into this lack-luster revenue deal. Obivously, someone that's totally bias over some bid & has no clue about the revenue deal details would say such a thing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Precisely! So what in the world could the IOC still hold "resentment" over when they obviously strong-armed the USOC into this lack-luster revenue deal. Obivously, someone that's totally bias over some bid & has no clue about the revenue deal details would say such a thing.

It seems like your taking it personally saying I have no clue. I was saying there could be members that may hold some kind of resentment against the USA. Is that really hard to believe? Anyways, your post was quite rude.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2008 was an improvement over 1996 and 2024 likely will be an improvement over 2008. It would be dumb of them not to mention their two previous bids. Sochi bid for 2002 returned in 2014 and won. That's a recent example of something that contradicts your point.

No, that doesn't contradict his point. In 1995, when that 2002 Sochi bid took place, Putin wasn't really in the picture pledging Billions of Rubles for the Winter Games, & the "new" Russia was still a relatively new country that was in quite a bit of disaray. If you're going to "compare" things, at least make sure that they're comparable things TBW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems like your taking it personally saying I have no clue. I was saying there could be members that may hold some kind of resentment against the USA. Is that really hard to believe? Anyways, your post was quite rude.

I'm not taking anything more personally, or being "rude" than any of you other guys on here. What would be their "resentment", though? The IOC got a very lucrative deal outta the whole deal.

N like Athensfan mentioned, if after the USOC still bending over backwards to make the IOC happy is still not good enough for them, then they can go & stuff it already & we need to start focusing that money on R athletes, instead of a bunch of stubborn, royal-wannabes.

N I'm sure many members could hold resentment towards any other nations as well. I don't see that as a unique attribute directed solely at the United States for whatever reasons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not taking anything more personally, or being "rude" than any of you other guys on here. What would be their "resentment", though? The IOC got a very lucrative deal outta the whole deal.

N like Athensfan mentioned, if after the USOC still bending over backwards to make the IOC happy is still not good enough for them, then they can go & stuff it already & we need to start focusing that money on R athletes, instead of a bunch of stubborn, royal-wannabes.

N I'm sure many members could hold resentment towards any other nations as well. I don't see that as a unique attribute directed solely at the United States for whatever reasons.

Well the deal is all fresh. I didn't take into account that by the time a potential bid would take place that years would have gone by already. If were talking about now, then yeah I wouldn't be surprised if there is some kind of resentment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, resentment over what, though. That's not being clear, other than you just making a generalization. If the IOC wasn't happy at all about the deal, then they wouldn't have agreed to it in the first place. If anyone should be/would be/or whatever, holding any 'resentment', it should be the USOC. Cuz they really got screwed up the rear-end on this one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, resentment over what, though. That's not being clear, other than you just making a generalization. If the IOC wasn't happy at all about the deal, then they wouldn't have agreed to it in the first place. If anyone should be/would be/or whatever, holding any 'resentment', it should be the USOC. Cuz they really got screwed up the rear-end on this one.

I'm with you on this, FYI. The only resentment I can imagine is general anti-American sentiment that isn't specifically Olympic-related. Issues with foreign policy, capitalism, perceived arrogance, etc. Lets face it, certain IOC members will never vote for the US because they just dislike the country.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again, resentment over what, though. That's not being clear, other than you just making a generalization. If the IOC wasn't happy at all about the deal, then they wouldn't have agreed to it in the first place. If anyone should be/would be/or whatever, holding any 'resentment', it should be the USOC. Cuz they really got screwed up the rear-end on this one.

Except that the agreement has been voted by the executive board... and not the session.... And from what i heard from some NOCs, there is still a lot of 'resentment' against USA around...

And if they are following this thread (& some other on that forum) here... with all this arrogance from US members, it would not help !

USOC has still a lot of work to do if they want to get the SOG (could be a little bi easier for the WOG) !

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except that the agreement has been voted by the executive board... and not the session.... And from what i heard from some NOCs, there is still a lot of 'resentment' against USA around...

And if they are following this thread (& some other on that forum) here... with all this arrogance from US members, it would not help !

USOC has still a lot of work to do if they want to get the SOG (could be a little bi easier for the WOG) !

Please explain what you see as American arrogance. That is a sincere request.

Do you really think the general membership is unaware of the revenue deal?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except that the agreement has been voted by the executive board... and not the session.... And from what i heard from some NOCs, there is still a lot of 'resentment' against USA around...

And if they are following this thread (& some other on that forum) here... with all this arrogance from US members, it would not help !

USOC has still a lot of work to do if they want to get the SOG (could be a little bi easier for the WOG) !

THank you! America is on the decline!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2008 was an improvement over 1996 and 2024 likely will be an improvement over 2008. It would be dumb of them not to mention their two previous bids. Sochi bid for 2002 returned in 2014 and won. That's a recent example of something that contradicts your point.

They can mention it and I'm sure they will. I'm just saying there's a difference between, say, Madrid bidding for the 3rd CONSECUTIVE time in 2020 or PC bidding 3 straight times from 2010-2018 versus if Toronto bids for the 3rd time in 2024 with 12 year and 16 year gaps between the other bids. Those strike me more as 3 separate entities, not a continuation of the same bid. It certainly doesn't work against Toronto but I'd compare them more to your Sochi example where a lot of people didn't necessarily connect the 2002 bid with the 2014 bid, especially that the former didn't make the shortlist.

And if they are following this thread (& some other on that forum) here... with all this arrogance from US members, it would not help !

I think we've long since established that what gets talked about on these forums is in no way indicative of what's going on out in the real world. This forum represents the opinions of the people that view this forum, not necessarily the IOC population at large.

As for American arrogance/resentment (and maybe it's going to be perceived as arrogance that we even have to ask), what does that have to do with anything? I get that the United States isn't viewed that favorably in certain parts of the world, but let's not forget.. the vote for 2024 doesn't occur for another 5 years. So whatever feelings/attitudes towards this country now can change. The revenue deal will be a distant memory by the time the 2017 comes around.

THank you! America is on the decline!

Yea, America is declining so much that NBComcast offered the IOC $4.38 billion for the next 4 Olympics. That's not bad for a country in decline!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are two inescapable points here:

1. An America in decline is still a superpower and a huge contributor to the IOC

2. Canada has hosted three Games since the mid-70s. Four in 50 years is pushing it as far as I'm concerned. So has the USA of cours, but I think a country of that size can be expected to host more often (though not as often as they used to perhaps).

It's arguable that the USA could struggle if faced with a viable African bid or Paris. It's also arguable that despite the revenue deal US relations with the IOC still may need some time to fully heal at a more personal level. But I still think the USA offers more to the IOC than another Canada hosting.

Just as I thought USA 2022 too soon for another US World Cup, so I thin Toronto 2024 too soon for another Canadian Olympics (if there are viable alternatives, obviously).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The success of an US bid will be driven IMO by one key factor.

The attitude of the bid team.

If they go in with what many assume has been the previous attitude of putting together a strong technical bid and some how deserve to reach the final two simply because the USA have bid, then I fear they will be turfed out early on to the backsides. The attitude that its somehow the USAs turn will meet with a similar outcome.

Any bid team from LA, Chicago, NY etc need to adopt the attitude that they will likely be up against 2-4 of the World's great cities or countries which fire the imagination of the IOC, and that they are very much underdogs that need to fight to the very last moment for very single vote. There must be the acknowledgement that even the possible likes of Toronto, Durban, Paris etc would be able to provide outstanding venues, facilities which will leave a lasting legacy and can do so without maybe some of the negative perceptions that the politics of their government has created.

If the bid team can divorce themselves from those politics, recognise they are in one hell of a battle, and accept that even to finish in last place is no embarassment, then maybe this will be attractive enough for enough IOC members to vote for a US candidate to overcome the odds.

But whichever year the US bid - 2024, 2028, 2032 - they are going to face these challenges.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except that the agreement has been voted by the executive board... and not the session.... And from what i heard from some NOCs, there is still a lot of 'resentment' against USA around...

And if they are following this thread (& some other on that forum) here... with all this arrogance from US members, it would not help !

USOC has still a lot of work to do if they want to get the SOG (could be a little bi easier for the WOG) !

Yeah, okay, whatever. What about the "arrogance" by some of the Canadian's members here, too. Or that of the few Spanish members. Not to mention some of the French, Russian's & German's. Arrogance is a trait in every nationality, race, etc. Americans R not the only ones that have a good handle on it.

People on these forums R NOT members of bid committees, NOC's, nor city officials, nor sponsors spokepersons to make any bit of an impression with the IOC at large.

Plus, I doubt that very many of them linger around here for any lenght of time. N the very few that might do, I'm sure R smart enough to differentiate from what's going on these flame war boards, to that of the people directly involved with the Olympic Games.

The success of an US bid will be driven IMO by one key factor.

The attitude of the bid team.

If they go in with what many assume has been the previous attitude of putting together a strong technical bid and some how deserve to reach the final two simply because the USA have bid, then I fear they will be turfed out early on to the backsides. The attitude that its somehow the USAs turn will meet with a similar outcome.

You mean like Toronto 2008 did, only to lose to Beijing by a landslide.

Any bid team from LA, Chicago, NY etc need to adopt the attitude that they will likely be up against 2-4 of the World's great cities or countries which fire the imagination of the IOC, and that they are very much underdogs that need to fight to the very last moment for very single vote.

I'm sure the USOC is very aware of this. But this could be said of ANY NOC bidding, not just the U.S.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, okay, whatever. What about the "arrogance" by some of the Canadian's members here, too. Or that of the few Spanish members. Not to mention some of the French, Russian's & German's. Arrogance is a trait in every nationality, race, etc. Americans R not the only ones that have a good handle on it.

The main difference being I (and all other Canadian British etc.) do consider all other bids have an equal chance. I do think the USA has a great chance of winning 2024 no doubting that, but the main difference between the AMerican members and the rest is to just discount any bid from the same region with we are the largest country economically speaking, we produce the most medals. You know what the IOC could care less if the USA is any of the above.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know what the IOC could care less if the USA is any of the above.

Yeah, & as usual, you can read into the minds of 100+ IOC members. Yet you think that at the same time they R suppose to give a rats a$s that "Canada has waited long enough" for yet another Olympics. That's a compelling selling point if I ever heard one. Please make sure that the bid team fires that one up!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, & as usual, you can read into the minds of 100+ IOC members. Yet you think that at the same time they R suppose to give a rats a$s that "Canada has waited long enough" for yet another Olympics. That's a compelling selling point if I ever heard one. Please make sure that the bid team fires that one up!

Actually I think making virtue of the fact that Toronto is the most multi cultural city of the world, where all of the world will feel welcome is likely to be a main selling point.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The main difference being I (and all other Canadian British etc.) do consider all other bids have an equal chance..

Really? Stop fibbing. How many times have you come on here saying; "no way" would this city or that get the Games. Hardly sounds like you giving "equal chance" there.

N besides, the Olympic Games aren't exactly an "equal" science. The IOC decisions aren't exactly linear, ya know. If that were the case, then Paris would've won the 2012 Games instead of London.

Actually I think making virtue of the fact that Toronto is the most multi cultural city of the world, where all of the world will feel welcome is likely to be a main selling point.

That "selling point" didn't work for Toronto in 2001 for 2008. N it didn't work for Chicago 2016, either. I think the whole "multi-cultural" angle is blown well outta proportion by some on here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really? Stop fibbing. How many times have you come on here saying; "no way" would this city or that get the Games. Hardly sounds like you giving "equal chance" there.

N besides, the Olympic Games aren't exactly an "equal" science. The IOC decisions aren't exactly linear, ya know. If that were the case, then Paris would've won the 2012 Games instead of London.

"no way" too Phili and Dallas. Besides they won't win the USOC nomination battle.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

U've done it to more than just Philly & Dallas before. N besides, even doing to just Philly & Dallas contradicts what you said that "you consider all other bids have an equal chance". Interesting to say the least, considering when we haven't seen what a Philly or Dallas bid could even propose.

Again, making contradicting, presumptuous assumptions about who the USOC would or would not pick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

U've done it to more than just Philly & Dallas before. N besides, even doing to just Philly & Dallas contradicts what you said that "you consider all other bids have an equal chance". Interesting to say the least, considering when we haven't seen what a Philly or Dallas bid could even propose.

Again, making contradicting, presumptuous assumptions about who the USOC would or would not pick.

OF BIDS that make the final stage. I stated earlier Chicago is my personal favourite besides Toronto. You need to learn how to read instead of making your presumptuous assumptions. If you bid you stand a chance of winning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...