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Athensfan
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This is a 2024 thread. Wouldn't your Reno campaign make more sense elsewhere?

It doesn't matter. All the American bids are inter-related.

Denver gave the USOC a black-eye. Further, what legacy will it leave compared to another area which doesn't have all the infrastructure yet? So obviously, a WOG in Reno will have a more lasting impact on the host area than one in an already established city like Denver.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Regarding my earlier comment about prognosticating.... when posters schedule Europe followed by Africa, followed by Asia, followed by Europe again, followed by North America, I do think they're extrapolating a bit too far. This happens fairly regularly and is often longtime, respected members join in.

I agree in the area of trying to put them "in some form of order of Games". But in the context of trying to have a sense of where the IOC could go next, based on previous bidders, previous hosts & the geopolitical system within the IOC, etc, I don't think it's far-fetched at all to designate, at the very least, that Europe pretty much gets to host a Summer Games at least once a decade. And any longer of a wait for the continent, especially with such a Euro-centric organization, is pretty much a foolhardy notion.

Unless Europe's influence totally declined in every aspect of global activity & within the IOC itself, &/or Europe just simply didn't bid (like they didn't for the 1984 & 1988 Summer Olympics), I can't see the IOC staying away from Europe for too, too long. Just like you can't see them staying away from the United States for very long, either.

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FYI, I think your Europe statement is totally fair. Europe isn't going to go through an Olympic drought. I do think there are several different ways they can get their "fix" though. I do think there are scenarios that will satisfy Europe and still allow the US to host before the 40s. Just like we will see Asia host back-to-back Games eventually, at some point we may also see Europe go three cycles without a SOG-- particularly if they get several Winter Games.

I don't think the US has anywhere near the same power over the IOC that Europe does. An American drought may not be desirable, but it is conceivable (where a European one is not). I don't think an American drought is by any means a foregone conclusion though. I don't see the 2012 or 2016 races as evidence that the IOC won't return to the States because both bids were so ill-timed.

Starting in 2024, the US can be a legit contender for Summer Games if they choose to bid.

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I don't think the US has anywhere near the same power over the IOC that Europe does. An American drought may not be desirable, but it is conceivable (where a European one is not). I don't think an American drought is by any means a foregone conclusion though. I don't see the 2012 or 2016 races as evidence that the IOC won't return to the States because both bids were so ill-timed.

Starting in 2024, the US can be a legit contender for Summer Games if they choose to bid.

the US will be a really good shot for 2024, specially if they got the experince of the last two campaigns and probably a possible loose in 2022, in 2024 it might be a battle betwen a US big city, Toronto, South Africa. as i said, a win from Istanbul will be the 2nd ''new frontier'' in a row, and will give the oportunity for games in North America.

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USA will have a good chance for the olympics in 2024 if they bid with Los Angeles, the have all the space NYC lacks from. Also it might be historic the 3rd time a stadium host olympics the Colliseum. :rolleyes:

I still question how receptive the IOC will be to another LA bid. 40 years is often too short for a repeat bid from a country, let alone a city, to say nothing of the fact that the United States should be able to do better than the safe reliable choice for a host city. Plus you're talking about a building that will be more than a century old by 2024, no longer has the running track, and may have out-lived its usefulness as a primary sports venue in LA if Farmers Field gets built. And in terms of a legacy, what is another Olympics going to do for Southern California that then `84 Games didn't already accomplish? I'm just worried the IOC will look at an LA bid as the USOC giving up on trying to present something new and I don't know that's the way to go.

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LA would not be boring and it would not be a repeat of 84.

That said, I would prefer to see a Chicago bid, but as so many have commented, Chicago has shown no signs of renewed interest. I'm still not writing off that possibility-- mainly because the 2016 plan could serve as a strong foundation for 2024 or 2028 and cut down on the necessary prep time. However, as of now I'm not expecting a Chicago bid.

I actually think LA has a lot of potential. The key is the legacy plan. That's what would set the next LA Games apart and interest the IOC. If the Games have a positive transformative effect in regenerating a major world city everyone will be happy.

If LA is put forward as the bid city, they will be a force to be reckoned with. It absolutely will not be a case of the "same old, same old."

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I still question how receptive the IOC will be to another LA bid. 40 years is often too short for a repeat bid from a country, let alone a city, to say nothing of the fact that the United States should be able to do better than the safe reliable choice for a host city. I'm just worried the IOC will look at an LA bid as the USOC giving up on trying to present something new and I don't know that's the way to go.

yeah, well. Many of us here have already been down this road many times before. The USOC may likely have no other choice than L.A. How many tjmes have you yourself even, told us that New York ain't gonna be raising their hand up anytime soon. N I certainly wouldn't hold my breath for Chicago, N San Francisco is nothing but a bureaucratic mess.

So who does that leave us with jn terms of the ''United States should be able to do better than the safe, reliable choice for a host city'', N besides the 2nd N 3rd-tier cities. The USOC seemed to have been prepared to have selected LA as their 2016 candidate according to some media out there, they only lost by a small margin to Chicago. N had LA been the 2016 candidate instead N got tossed in the first round, we'd all be saying now that it was bcuz it was too soon for LA again.

I think by 2024, 1984 should be less of an issue IF the bid is compelling enough. So that brings us to what is another Olympics going to do for Southern California, you say? I agree with Athensfan on this one. Propelling the city in some fashion of mass transit could be the legacy catalyst that is needed. One thing is for sure though; LA cannot sell themselves as being ''the safe reliable choice'' if they want to host for a 3rd time. They'll need a strong story. Something inspiring. N something innovative (that's what London did). N I hope that the USOC is at least smart enough to know that if they want to go with them for a 3rd Games. N regardless if LA is their only viable option as a candidate.

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FYI, I totally agree. LA may be a safe choice economically, but they need to demonstrate out of the box thinking that gets people excited. I think having a compelling story is a "must" for any winning bid. You can get to the shortlist without one, but you won't win without one. Witness London, Sochi, Rio, PC....

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No, by saying "LA will be boring" i mean.... It will be the 3rd time fpr a city in the US when they have a dozen of cities that can host sucsesfully the games... The US only has hosted in St. Louis, LA (2 times) and Atlanta, i dont see why not going with another city.... But those are just my thoughts, maybe the US will try LA first -.-

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The U.S. may have "a dozen cities" that could host the Games, but the reality of the matter is:

1) who is REALLY interested?

2) who could win in the international arena?

& 3) who is the one that's ready to shell out all the moo-lah to actually bid & then actually HOST the Games?

So apart from L.A., I really don't see too many cities, at this point in time, meeting all those criteria. Again, lets not hold our breath for New York, Chicago & San Francisco.

So who's left after them then? Second-tier cities like Dallas, Houston, Philadelphia & maybe Boston & D.C. Then after that, 3rd-tier cities like Seattle, Miami, Phoenix, San Diego, Minneapolis. And let's be honest, how many of these, especially the 3rd-tier ones, would actually have a chance in the international realm?

I don't see it, as do many as well. In order for any of these lower-tier cities to have a chance, the global competition for the Games would have to cool off. N I don't C that happening anytime soon. Plus, then that brings us back to square one; who is really interested...

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LA 2016 with its LA-Long Beach plan was pretty bad. If they are to make a strong case, they'll have to move up those Long Beach venues to, like Santa Monica.

Santa Monica's a great spot! It will be a good choice...

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The U.S. may have "a dozen cities" that could host the Games, but the reality of the matter is:

1) who is REALLY interested?

2) who could win in the international arena?

& 3) who is the one that's ready to shell out all the moo-lah to actually bid & then actually HOST the Games?

So apart from L.A., I really don't see too many cities, at this point in time, meeting all those criteria. Again, lets not hold our breath for New York, Chicago & San Francisco.

So who's left after them then? Second-tier cities like Dallas, Houston, Philadelphia & maybe Boston & D.C. Then after that, 3rd-tier cities like Seattle, Miami, Phoenix,

San Diego, Minneapolis. And let's be honest, how many of these, especially the 3rd-tier ones, would actually have a chance in the international realm?

I don't see it, as do many as well. In order for any of these

lower-tier cities to have a chance, the global competition for the Games would have to cool off. N I don't C that happening anytime soon. Plus, then that brings us back to

square one; who is really interested...

Ok, 2nd tire cities can host good games... And by the moment not alot of cities are intrested, but when the revenue sharing deal with IOC reaches an agreement. Many cities will show intrest... And they are well recognized. So they mught have a chance. If NYC and Chicago arent intrested is not cuz they dont want, its mire like if they get sick of olympic bids and the are scared tge next time...

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...I'm convinced that the IOC's next choice would be the US. Therefore, I think the US should bid, with the knowledge that it's a calculated risk. They could discover a few months into the race that it's "game over." Or they could win...

If the US bid and lost 2024, they'd be in prime position for 2028 or 2032...

The US and North America are ready for Summer Games. No continent has ever hosted three WOGs without an intervening Summer Games and it's unreasonable to expect North America to do so. It's especially crazy to prolong the wait for American SOGS another few decades for the likes of a city as homely and unpleasant as Reno. I've been there. I know. If the USOC decides to winterize, the only candidate is Denver.

But which US city would be a viable candidate to bid for a summer games? Where is there any simmering urge to even go for a bid? San Francisco? Never gonna happen... they can't even work out the basics necessary to put a bid together... Chicago? That bridge has been burned (no pun to the Great Fire intended...) New York? ZERO desire or available financing there... they have almost completely stalled on the WTC reconstruction... WTC buildings 2, 3, 4, 5, the transit hub, and the 9-11 museum have all basically stopped construction due to cost overruns in the BILLIONS and funding shortfalls exceeding 500 million right now... Apparently the museum that was set to open 9-11 2012 is completely stopped on construction now and 300 Million + in the red... now they are talking about the museum opening in 2014 or even 2015! if NYC cant get that done there is NO chance of the Olympics happening in the foreseeable future...

What does that leave? Tampa? They are broke down in Florida... DC/Baltimore... not a chance... Boston... again broke and soured on big projects after the mess of the big dig and faulty construction and HUGE cost overruns that have burdened the city/region/state with a HUGE debt...

The only option I can see is Los Angeles... Venues mostly all built... but the issues is it is Los Angeles... The venues are VERY spread out over hundreds of square miles... Transportation is an absolute disaster... and the glamor appeal really is not there anymore... the only reason they even got 1984 was that no other city on Earth put forth a bid so the USOC's pick by default became the host city... I really don't see LA having the appeal to get the IOC to come back a third time that London and possibly a future Paris bid has...

Please don't get me wrong... I would LOVE to have the summer games back here in the USA, I would love to see them in any US city... hell i'd put them in Phoenix if it was up to me... But it is not and I can chose to just be in looney-bin optimism land or I can chose to make some attempt to look at this issue objectively and realistically... A winter bid in Denver has at least a legitimate chance... even a remote chance of Reno/Tahoe (I know, I know...)

But being realistic, I cannot see any US city having the desire nor financial or bureaucratic ability to put forth a realistic summer games bid... Unless we want to start thinking Tulsa has a real chance because they have the support and possibly even the financial backing... Just zero global appeal... but we had Atlanta so who knows... <_< My family was at the 1996 games and loved them...

But being realistic I really do believe that North America's best bet for a summer games in the next 15-20 years is Toronto... they have the desire, the ability to fun it, and public/government support... Besides, its right across the lake rom the USA and they speak English... so we get a near-American olympics and don't have to pay for the party... Same appeal Vancouver had (and they did a GREAT job btw, I think best winter games yet!)

Please feel free to punch any holes in my argument or logic (as if everyone here wouldnt anyway :lol: )...

Discuss...

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The U.S. may have "a dozen cities" that could host the Games, but the reality of the matter is:

1) who is REALLY interested?

2) who could win in the international arena?

& 3) who is the one that's ready to shell out all the moo-lah to actually bid & then actually HOST the Games?

So apart from L.A., I really don't see too many cities, at this point in time, meeting all those criteria. Again, lets not hold our breath for New York, Chicago & San Francisco.

So who's left after them then? Second-tier cities like Dallas, Houston, Philadelphia & maybe Boston & D.C. Then after that, 3rd-tier cities like Seattle, Miami, Phoenix, San Diego, Minneapolis. And let's be honest, how many of these, especially the 3rd-tier ones, would actually have a chance in the international realm?

I don't see it, as do many as well. In order for any of these lower-tier cities to have a chance, the global competition for the Games would have to cool off. N I don't C that happening anytime soon. Plus, then that brings us back to square one; who is really interested...

BTW, I live in the City of Phoenix (the actual city... not Scottsdale, Glendale, Avondale, Tempe, etc...) and I don't understand why we are considered some sort of 'third tier' city... Is it Sheriff Arpaio and Tent City? SB 1070? What???

Phoenix is the 5th/6th largest city in the USA and we have 4.1 million in the valley metro area.... we have NFL, NBA, NHL, and MLB teams, host the Super Bowl, all-star games, etc, yet we get no love... is it the heat? If so, it is only a high of 54 degrees today with a low of 36 tonight... that's almost Arctic by our standards...

We could have a dancing cactus for our olympic mascot....

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/YtsAjAYVGAQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

But seriously... second tier MABYE but THIRD???

Phoenix-Arizona-1.jpg

Phoenix%2Bdowntown%2BArizona%2BUSA.jpg

phoenix_skyline.jpg

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The USOC has made it very clear that they are calling the shots regarding future bids (as they should). There still is no revenue deal and as a result all bid conversation is tabled. I do not believe we Gamesbidders are well enough connected to definitively state that no qualified Americsn city wants to host the Games in the next two decades.

Perhaps there will be a long drought, perhaps not. It's too early to know. My point is that IF a strong American candidate steps up to the plate for 2024 or 2028, it could have a good chance of winning and would be far more competitive than the poorly timed 2012 and 2016 bids.

If the USOC decides to put that message out, I think we'll see more interest. For now, though, we're stuck in a holding pattern-- at least until the USOC makes a declaration of intent.

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Sorry, but I really don't see Phoenix as some sort of U.S. mecca. People in Minneapolis, & there have been plenty of fanatics on this board to boast about themselves, that think they are it. But as many do as well, I don't see it. I don't even see Seattle as 2nd-tier, & if I were to pick one of the 3rd-tiers to move them up a notch, it would be them.

And you can't seriously think that Tulsa could ever host an Olympics this century, do you? WHy do people keep bringing up the Atlanta comparison. Tulsa is not even today what Atlanta was back in '89/'90 when they were bidding. Seriously, not only does Tulsa not have the appeal, but they don't even have the basic infrastructure to even host the Superbowl, let alone N Olympics.

And even if Florida weren't broke, Tampa could never host, either. They tried for the 2012 Games, but the USOC was quick to dismiss them N with good reason. Actually, I can't see any Florida city, not even Miami. Besides, Atlanta took care the Southeast region of the country anyway.

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The U.S. city that can put forth a solid stadium AND Olympic Village plan will be the one closest to making it.

BTW, San Jose will be hosting the US Figure Skating Nationals in a few weeks. And that new 49er stadium which should have gone to San Francisco will be outside San Jose's door by 2015.

If Doha/Qatar gets 2020, then maybe Phoenix can make a run for the next US slot. ;)

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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The USOC has made it very clear that they are calling the shots regarding future bids (as they should). There still is no revenue deal and as a result all bid conversation is tabled. I do not believe we Gamesbidders are well enough connected to definitively state that no qualified Americsn city wants to host the Games in the next two decades.

Perhaps there will be a long drought, perhaps not. It's too early to know. My point is that IF a strong American candidate steps up to the plate for 2024 or 2028, it could have a good chance of winning and would be far more competitive than the poorly timed 2012 and 2016 bids.

If the USOC decides to put that message out, I think we'll see more interest. For now, though, we're stuck in a holding pattern-- at least until the USOC makes a declaration of intent.

I agree that the USOC/IOC revenue issue negates the speculation overall of that seems to still be a major hurdle both in the short-and long terms... short term that it is unresolved and long term that we will need to wait and see how much damage is ultimately done to the USOC'S relationship with the IOC and its members when the ink dries on whatever deal emerges as a result (and whenever that may be...)

However, I believe that the bigger issue to the USOC is the cost vs. benefit analysis of putting forth a US summer bid... The costs are enormous, and as we saw with Chicago, the risk of failure carries huge opportunity costs... Mayor Daley, the Chicago bid committee, various city/region/state leaders, the Chicago business community, even the unprecedented personal appearance of the sitting US President (who was from Chicago) and the cost of 100 million dollars, and the results were an absolutely humiliating first round loss... and I think that very public humiliation that Chicago and everyone else involved suffered will severely dampen any city's desires to even think about bidding for a long, long time to come...

Of course, the frequent explanation is the IOC wanting something new and different and Rio was the the right place for the right time... well the IOC is now seeing many new cities and countries throughout Asia, Africa, South America, Middle East bidding now and for the foreseeable future so the IOC is not really limited to the tried and true North America-Europe-Japan/Australia rotation model anymore... they have lots of new and exciting cities to go go for some time to come... and any potential US bid knows it... I genuinely believe the only US cities that can compete on a global bidding scale won't and the few that want to can't... And if some US city actually fully commits to an all-in bid like Chicago did and loses (which is likely... :( ) the USOC would find it virtually impossible to ever entice another city to bid again for a very long time... so the benefits to the USOC are comparatively small and the risks huge... and the USOC is a generally risk-advers organization... they are certainly doing the same math in their heads and in some back-room and asking themselves "Why take the risk?"

So I really think that it makes the most sense for the USOC to aim for a winter games, and let the rest of the world deal with bidding for and hosting the outrageously over-bloated and expensive summer games. The USOC can just focus on athlete training, corporate sponsorships, and revenue... As long as they can keep the American peoples interest in the summer games and the $$$ keeps coming in, there is little incentive for the USOC to open that door to any city to bid for a summer games in 2024, 28, 32, or beyond... those dates sound far off but in reality 2024 is only just over 12 years away now... I honestly would not be surprised if the USOC would through some behind the scenes support to a Toronto bid since they get the benefit of a N. American games with a favorable timezone and minimal travel costs which will pique American's interest and non of the headaches of bidding or hosting...

So if the USOC were wise, I would think they should be quietly working behind the scenes on polishing Denver's image, smoothing over any long-term resentments from '76 and putting some of the wheels in place to get a Denver winter bid rolling for 2022 or '26...

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If Doha/Qatar gets 2020, then maybe Phoenix can make a run for the next US slot. ;)

I agree... I was living/teaching in Abu Dhabi last year after having lived in Phoenix full time for the last several years... the Gulf states like the UAE and Qatar are beyond oppressive in the Summer... I figured after living in Phoenix in the summers (and I like the heat here btw...) that the UAE wouldn't be so bad... I could not have been more wrong... it is 100% true what we say here in Arizona about it being a DRY heat... 105-110 degrees with 2-4 % humidity is not so bad... it feels much like 88 or 90 degrees would feel like back in Ohio in the summers... but 115 degrees with 90% humidity is appalling... if it was up to me it would just stay about 95 or 100 degrees here in Phoenix year-round... granted 110+ is a bit warm but days like today where it is only in the mid-50's is WAY too cold for me anymore... how I ever survived 26 years in northern Ohio is beyond me... I would much prefer to sweat to death than freeze to death... ;)

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