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Athensfan

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I wonder if the IOC's rejection of NY & Chicago might be them doing the same to the US as they did to the UK with Brum & Manchester. Basically saying 'look, we don't mind you as the country bidding, but it's London or nothing if you want to win'. Obviously, replacing London with LA. I still say that although there are many American cities that could & would put on great games, LA is the only one that could win a bid. (Possibly SF at a push if they could get their act together)

I think New York is the city that the IOC really wants. It's the only city that I can recall being mentioned by name by IOC members in the past several years when asked about a U.S. bid. IIRC, Gerhard Heiberg and a few other members said before the 2020 race that they would really like to see a bid from New York, which was different from the usual "we would welcome a U.S. bid" rhetoric that we usually see from the IOC.

I don't expect the U.S. to get a Summer Games in the 20s, but I do think a strong New York bid could pull an upset for 2024 or 2028. I don't see New York as a city that is going to make repeated bids if they fail again (and the IOC should know this), so the IOC would need to think long and hard about rejecting a New York bid if they really do want the Games to go to New York.

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Hopefully with this (fairly new) administration in Dallas City Hall, they can actually get along with the County Commissioners office and with each other. That was a major problem a decade ago.

Unfortunately, the always divisive John Wiley Price is still one of the County Commissioners. He does not get along with anybody.

Also, there is no way that Jerry Jones isn't going to allow his stadium to not be the main site for a Dallas Olympics. He will want his stadium to host the ceremonies as well as the soccer games, possible basketball and swimming and others. His stadium will not play second fiddle to the Cotton Bowl in a Dallas Olympics.

I have no doubt you're right about Mr. Jones, but what he wants isn't always in the best interest of the city or region. We're talking about the man who tried to kill DART light rail, here.

I feel that they could throw him a bone with a sport or two, but I don't see Dallas giving away so many of the prizes/benefits of the Olympics to Mr. Jones and Arlington. If Dallas ever gets to the point of really planning a bid, they'll have the ceremonies and prestige sports like swimming and athletics at the main site, somewhere in Fair Park or the Cotton Bowl.

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After Beijing, (London excepted), Rio, & Tokyo, can any city (except Durban, for obvious reasons) really expect to win a summer games on first try or first try for a while, or is at least one failure part of the process now?


Edit: I meant to put "can any city expect to win". Woops :unsure:

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After Beijing, (London excepted), Rio, & Tokyo, can any city (except Durban, for obvious reasons) really expect to win a summer games on first try or first try for a while, or is at least one failure part of the process now?

Edit: I meant to put "can any city expect to win". Woops :unsure:

If the time is right, I see no reason why a bid couldn't win on the first try. For example, if the IOC sees 2032 as the time to return to North America, and the USOC presented a strong, first-time bid from Boston, I certainly think that Boston could win.

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Also, there is no way that Jerry Jones isn't going to allow his stadium to not be the main site for a Dallas Olympics. He will want his stadium to host the ceremonies as well as the soccer games, possible basketball and swimming and others. His stadium will not play second fiddle to the Cotton Bowl in a Dallas Olympics.

That's not even a double negative there, that's a triple negative! Anyways..

AT&T Stadium is not owned by the Cowboys. Operated by them yes, but the stadium is the property of the city of Arlington. Even still, what benefit does Jerry Jones get by having the ceremonies there? Let alone to then use it for multiple sports. Pick one. Also noteworthy (this is from Wikipedia, so take it for what it's worth).. The stadium is the only NFL stadium that is completely inaccessible via public transportation, including bus, light rail, or people mover systems. The only way to get to the stadium is via car or private shuttle.

Considering it's probably in Dallas's best interests to try and create some sort of Olympic Park concept, is Jerry Jones going to want that at his stadium? Does he want his stadium to be the centerpiece of an Olympics or does he want to continue to remind the world it's the Cowboys' Stadium. Dallas is much better served by having Fair Park be the center of attention and Jerry Jones is not going to stand in the way of that.

I think New York is the city that the IOC really wants. It's the only city that I can recall being mentioned by name by IOC members in the past several years when asked about a U.S. bid. IIRC, Gerhard Heiberg and a few other members said before the 2020 race that they would really like to see a bid from New York, which was different from the usual "we would welcome a U.S. bid" rhetoric that we usually see from the IOC.

I don't expect the U.S. to get a Summer Games in the 20s, but I do think a strong New York bid could pull an upset for 2024 or 2028. I don't see New York as a city that is going to make repeated bids if they fail again (and the IOC should know this), so the IOC would need to think long and hard about rejecting a New York bid if they really do want the Games to go to New York.

See, I don't think the IOC is going to think that way. Let's say as a hypothetical that Paris wins 2024 and that 2028 is Durban and New York. Is the IOC going to base their decision on which city is more likely to bid for the following Olympics? Will there be extra votes for New York for fear they wouldn't vote again? I doubt it on both counts.

After Beijing, (London excepted), Rio, & Tokyo, can any city (except Durban, for obvious reasons) really expect to win a summer games on first try or first try for a while, or is at least one failure part of the process now?

Edit: I meant to put "can any city expect to win". Woops :unsure:

So you're basing this theory with 3 cities after you make an exception for 2 of them? Don't buy it. The first try/not first try aspect is overrated. If the bid is there in the right place and time, it will win regardless of whether or not they've bid before. I don't see any reason to think otherwise.

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First of all, AT&T Stadium cannot be the stadium for the ceremonies as it's technically in the city of Arlington, not Dallas. More likely the stadium would be used to host multiple events, probably gymnastics, basketball, and finals for either volleyball or handball. The public transportation issue would need to be addressed. There has been talk of a commuter rail line running from downtown Dallas at Union Station through Arlington and Grand Prairie to Fort Worth. That would make a nice legacy. Regarding Fair Park, no way the fairgrounds get moved. The public outcry would be huge. More likely, the surrounding land east of Fair Park would be redeveloped for an Olympic Village and the aging Cotton Bowl renovated for athletics and the ceremonies. Fair Park also has the Fair Park Coliseum, Texas Centennial Hall, and the Automotive Building with can be used as venues. Another legacy, and one that should be pressed if a Dallas bid went forward is completion of the Trinity River Corridor Project.

Jerry Jones. I've touched on this before, but if Dallas wanted to bid, he needs to be in charge. In fact, any U.S. bid needs a Jerry Jones type leading it. The Olympics have become a business. A bid team has to sell their city to the IOC. Jerry Jones is a controversial figure but the guy's a brilliant salesman. He could sell ice to eskimos. He turned a struggling franchise into one of the world's most profitable and convinced taxpayers to help fund the world's largest stadium in terms of square footage, not to mention he went against the grain of the NFL by signing individual sponsorship deals with the Dallas Cowboys (the official beer of the NFL was Budweiser, he signed a deal with Miller Lite, the official uniforms of the NFL were made by Adidas, he signed with Nike).

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Regarding Fair Park, no way the fairgrounds get moved. The public outcry would be huge. More likely, the surrounding land east of Fair Park would be redeveloped for an Olympic Village and the aging Cotton Bowl renovated for athletics and the ceremonies. Fair Park also has the Fair Park Coliseum, Texas Centennial Hall, and the Automotive Building with can be used as venues. Another legacy, and one that should be pressed if a Dallas bid went forward is completion of the Trinity River Corridor Project.

I agree as far as Fair Park goes. I do not think they would move the State Fair, I think they would figure out a way to have the Olympics and keep the fairgrounds. I really do love some of those art deco buildings on the fairgrounds and as you say I bet some of them could be easily adapted for certain sports.

Interesting story, my grandmother and grandfather, while they were dating, drove to Dallas for the World's Fair there in 1936 (from their homes in Western NC). It was the first time they experienced air conditioning!

Jerry Jones as the lead for a Dallas Olympic bid is... interesting. You are right that he is the consummate business man. That much is for sure.

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First of all, AT&T Stadium cannot be the stadium for the ceremonies as it's technically in the city of Arlington, not Dallas.

I've always liked Dallas as the city the US should chose. LA is more attractive, yes, but I get really bored when the same city gets the games over and over and over again, especially in a country where 6+ cities can host the games. But, I think that AT&T Stadium would've been a great venue for the ceremonies...I never realized that since it was in Arlington, it couldn't host the ceremonies. If that is the case I honestly don't want to see the ceremonies at the Cotton Bowl without some serious renovations to the place, but I still really want to see the US pick Dallas to host the games

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First of all, AT&T Stadium cannot be the stadium for the ceremonies as it's technically in the city of Arlington, not Dallas. More likely the stadium would be used to host multiple events, probably gymnastics, basketball, and finals for either volleyball or handball. The public transportation issue would need to be addressed. There has been talk of a commuter rail line running from downtown Dallas at Union Station through Arlington and Grand Prairie to Fort Worth. That would make a nice legacy. Regarding Fair Park, no way the fairgrounds get moved. The public outcry would be huge. More likely, the surrounding land east of Fair Park would be redeveloped for an Olympic Village and the aging Cotton Bowl renovated for athletics and the ceremonies. Fair Park also has the Fair Park Coliseum, Texas Centennial Hall, and the Automotive Building with can be used as venues. Another legacy, and one that should be pressed if a Dallas bid went forward is completion of the Trinity River Corridor Project.

Jerry Jones. I've touched on this before, but if Dallas wanted to bid, he needs to be in charge. In fact, any U.S. bid needs a Jerry Jones type leading it. The Olympics have become a business. A bid team has to sell their city to the IOC. Jerry Jones is a controversial figure but the guy's a brilliant salesman. He could sell ice to eskimos. He turned a struggling franchise into one of the world's most profitable and convinced taxpayers to help fund the world's largest stadium in terms of square footage, not to mention he went against the grain of the NFL by signing individual sponsorship deals with the Dallas Cowboys (the official beer of the NFL was Budweiser, he signed a deal with Miller Lite, the official uniforms of the NFL were made by Adidas, he signed with Nike).

Pretty sure that minor little technicality will not prevent AT&T Stadium from hosting the ceremonies. I don't care what the Olympic charter says or any of that nonsense.. this is a rule that could broken if the circumstances warranted it.

As for the stadium's usage during the Olympics.. I'm sure a lot of people are looking at it in the same vein as the Georgia Dome. Keep in mind though that the Georgia Dome was designed and built with the Olympics in mind, so they were well prepared for the provision of essentially splitting the arena in 2. Might be a little bit more difficult to do that at AT&T Stadium with the giant center-hung video board there. Not a deal breaker, but it means that stadium wasn't designed in the same regard as Cowboys Stadium.

Jerry Jones.. absolutely it boosts Dallas's profile to have him involved in the bid. But he's not going to be in charge. If he was, he'd be in charge already. He's not. He'll be in his 80s come the next available Olympics. If it takes longer than that, he might not be alive to see a Dallas Olympics. Either way, you're right that it's a business venture. So what's in it for him? If you want to make the argument that a Dallas Olympics (or even a bid for them) will be a boost to his football team and his bottom line, that makes perfect sense. But this is the Olympics and the IOC we're talking about. What he can do with the NFL doesn't necessarily work on a world stage. He got Cowboys Stadium built because it benefited him and his team. He may not feel the same way about a similar effort on behalf of the city of Dallas.

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You can count me among the Dallasites that wants Jerry Jones as far from a Dallas Olympic bid as possible. Jerryworld can be used for football (soccer) preliminaries -- all this magnanimity with hosting swimming events is just laughable. Any local university would love having a new Olympic pool as a legacy of the Games.

There are plenty of areas closer to downtown Dallas than Arlington and Frisco to host events..... one example, the old Texas Stadium is now a hole in the ground and the area is being used to stage some much needed roadway improvements in the interchange and the new 635 expansion. It's 15 minutes in either direction to the airport and to downtown and could be a welcome addition or replacement to the Trinity Project. There are plenty of local universities to choose from (in this case, UD) that could benefit from sports and housing facilities -- it could be practically anywhere inside the 635 loop. The area around the Stadium/Ballpark in Arlington is all used up, still ridden with congestion and has only a token shuttle (just 4 months ago) to a commuter rail station 15-20 minutes away at best. An existing rail line runs about a half mile south that could be turned into this supposed new commuter line, but in my memory it is still heavily used for freight.

And for all this talk about overhauling the Cotton Bowl, it was last renovated and extended in 2008 -- granted 2024 is quite far away so 2008-2022 would be 14 years and about time -- but the fact of the matter is that it remains a local icon and the track would have to be either removed or the stands movable to cover it and keep capacity around 90-95k for (American) football. And what's all this land east of Fair Park? It's all parking lots and housing, however unattractive that is, the politics behind removing people's homes for a major event are challenging. The Green Line can't even handle demand for the State Fair without help from bussing. I got onto a TRE train and was forced off at Victory and bussed to Fair Park instead of transferring to the Green Line that normally stops there and would have in normal circumstances taken me directly to the gate at Fair Park.

I'm not saying using Arlington and expanding Fair Park are impossible, but throwing so much behind them may not be the best idea without some serious planning and dealing with some rather controversial political players, not the least of which is Jerry.


429 pages and we still know hardly anything. Madness!

...and it may be longer. Just depends on what happens in the meetings in Pretoria.

But no lack for debate!

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Dallas just has NO appeal to me. What is it? The land of Neiman-Marcus, a huge stadium, the place where Kennedy was shot; and it's got a huge airport somewhere between 2 cities of one of my most HATED airlines!! At least Atlanta had some Civil War history, Margaret Mitchell and Civil Rights significance.

I'll agree Dallas doesn't have much appeal, but that they have not 1 but 2 huge stadiums does give them something of a technical edge that Northeastern cities like Boston and Philadelphia wish they had. So simply from a technical standpoint, I'm still curious to see what they have to offer, especially if the cities they're competing against (with the exception of Los Angeles) don't have anything of substance to put together. An Olympics centered around Fair Park, even if it's in the wrong city, is worth a look.

Of course, I think there's a much more pressing and obvious question to be asked.. do they have a revolving restaurant?

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Dallas just has NO appeal to me. What is it? The land of Neiman-Marcus, a huge stadium, the place where Kennedy was shot; and it's got a huge airport somewhere between 2 cities of one of my most HATED airlines!! At least Atlanta had some Civil War history, Margaret Mitchell and Civil Rights significance.

I'm surprised you know Neiman Marcus, actually -- I guess I just assume they are in Dallas and nowhere else. :P I usually get JR, JFK, and in once Berlin I got Dirk Nowitzki. I'm personally leaning toward NYC, Boston or Philadelphia really because for me the Northeast seems to be the last major US region to host Summer Games.

I know there seems to be some animosity toward Atlanta -- I think Dallas would have to overcome that, and do some major PR on the international scale, leveraging some of the international corporate presence here. Again, not impossible, but lots of work.

I'll agree Dallas doesn't have much appeal, but that they have not 1 but 2 huge stadiums does give them something of a technical edge that Northeastern cities like Boston and Philadelphia wish they had. So simply from a technical standpoint, I'm still curious to see what they have to offer, especially if the cities they're competing against (with the exception of Los Angeles) don't have anything of substance to put together. An Olympics centered around Fair Park, even if it's in the wrong city, is worth a look.

Of course, I think there's a much more pressing and obvious question to be asked.. do they have a revolving restaurant?

Yes, Wolfgang Puck's 560, inside of Reunion Tower (the ball) :D

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You can count me among the Dallasites that wants Jerry Jones as far from a Dallas Olympic bid as possible. Jerryworld can be used for football (soccer) preliminaries -- all this magnanimity with hosting swimming events is just laughable. Any local university would love having a new Olympic pool as a legacy of the Games.

Let's be honest though...if Dallas is selected...the committee and likely Jones himself will find a way to get him involved. He isn't the most popular figure around, but like people on this board have been saying, he sure knows how to get the job done.

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Let's be honest though...if Dallas is selected...the committee and likely Jones himself will find a way to get him involved. He isn't the most popular figure around, but like people on this board have been saying, he sure knows how to get the job done.

Sure, as long as he keeps his mouth shut, or at least learns some international manners. Achieving deals on a national level and attempting to sway the opinions of 100-odd IOC members from all over the world are quite different -- and I would argue, the latter requires a greater deal of subtlety that Jerry is not particularly known for. That said, I admit that my own personal opinion of the man means nothing, and it's not beyond the realm of possibility for him to pull it off.

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  • 2 weeks later...

US political delegation decision for #Sochi2014 risks killing any hope of a US 2024 Bid before it even starts. #IOC will not be amused.

https://twitter.com/MichaelRPayne1

Wonder what people make of this tweet from the former head of marketing at the IOC? Is he overegging this?

Why is the USOC considering not sending Athletes to Sochi 2014 because of Political Issues. Sport and Politics should never mix in my opinion.

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They're not considering it, they've ruled it out. US athletes will be there but neither the President, Vice President or first lady will be there. Instead Obama is sending a delegation which includes high-profile gay sports people including Billie Jean King.

Anyway, whether you agree or disagree with it, do people really think this decision by Obama could cause problems for a potential 2024 bid?

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They're not considering it, they've ruled it out. US athletes will be there but neither the President, Vice President or first lady will be there. Instead Obama is sending a delegation which includes high-profile gay sports people including Billie Jean King.

Anyway, whether you agree or disagree with it, do people really think this decision by Obama could cause problems for a potential 2024 bid?

I think it could cause problems, as the IOC might consider it as Obama not following the Olympic Movement by not Attending.

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Anyway, whether you agree or disagree with it, do people really think this decision by Obama could cause problems for a potential 2024 bid?

No; not for a future bid. But I think it's an in-your-face move by Obama. (I think he and Putin don't really like each other.) And I fear the U.S. delegation will be snubbed or ignored at the VIP events. I guess it could've been far worse by sending Ellen deGeneres, Martina Navratilova and Lily Tomlin as well.

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No; not for a future bid. But I think it's an in-your-face move by Obama. (I think he and Putin don't really like each other.) And I fear the U.S. delegation will be snubbed or ignored at the VIP events. I guess it could've been far worse by sending Ellen deGeneres, Martina Navratilova and Lily Tomlin as well.

I don't think many Politicians like each other.

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The Olympics are inherently political.

Yep, which is a pretty bad thing. Some parts of Politics are bad, so it's not good to mix Sport and Politics, hence why Usa were considering not attending Sochi 2014.

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