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Athensfan
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/\/\ Sorry to tell you but Chicago's not going to run against Durban or any other time in the next 50 years. Tough.

Maybe... Chicago's mayor decides until 2017 we dont know what does he thinks. Otherwise me might see a L.A. bid (boring)

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The USOC may not even bid anyway, with the lack of Alpha compelling candidates. While I agree with all of Athensfan's point's of Chicago's potential & aspects of how the Games could propel the city & unbox a hidden gem like Barcelona, I just don't see them bidding anytime soon. Same goes with New York. And while Los Angeles may be "boring", but I think that they're the only Alpha candidate that could have the gusto to go forward, at this stage, that the USOC might get for a 2024 bid.

If the USOC would like to bid but the big boys of cities still don't wanna play &/or a Los Angeles bid is too generic with no real compelling attributes, then the only other option that the USOC might have is perhaps exploring the 2nd-tier cities like Dallas, Houston &/or Philadelphia. While these cities may still be a stretch, they'd still be much more better options than the totally delusional culprits of Tulsa & Co.

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I really don't understand why people are convinced there won't be any viable candidates for 2024. Those Games are 13 years away. Was Chicago making any noise about bidding in 2003? Was NYC making any noise about bidding in 1999? A lot can happen. It's just too soon to say there won't be any compelling Alpha cities.

The USOC has tabled all conversation about bidding for the time being. Everyone is also aware that the 2022 race has to be addressed one way or another first. No serious bid for 2024 would be vocal about their intentions at this stage under these circumstances.

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In 2003, Chicago didn't have the sting like the 2016 loss & 80 million dollars down the toilet. Same with New York.

And while 2024 is 13 years away, obviously the huge campaigning for such an endeavor should be starting now. As I've said before, a good, compelling winnable bid takes extremely good preperation & long, hard work. And not something that can just be thrown together on a paper napkin 24hrs before the 2024 IOC deadline.

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I totally disagree. Campaigning for 2024 does not have to start now. Where's the precedent for that statement? Was Atlanta pushing for '96 in 1983? Was Salt Lake pushing for '02 in 1989?

Yes, the US has lost and it hurt. That doesn't mean no one will dust themselves off and try again. There's no way that pessimistic statement can be made with any degree of certainty.

Finally, our conversations on these boards are limited to the information that has been made public. The absence of a public declaration that an Alpha city wants to host the Olympics 13 years from now is hardly proof that no one is interested.

It is just too soon to know one way or the other.

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Just because there aren't headlines about American bids for 2024 hardly indicates that the USOC would have to present the IOC with a napkin sketch!

We're not 24 hours before the deadline. We're four years away and there's no way to know who's planning what this far out.

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/\/\ Sorry to tell you but Chicago's not going to run against Durban or any other time in the next 50 years. Tough.

Well then I guess if South Africa doesn't bid in 2024 like they didn't bid in 2020, than Chicago is good to go. There, glad we got that one settled.

And while 2024 is 13 years away, obviously the huge campaigning for such an endeavor should be starting now. As I've said before, a good, compelling winnable bid takes extremely good preperation & long, hard work. And not something that can just be thrown together on a paper napkin 24hrs before the 2024 IOC deadline.

What I would really love to see is the USOC commit to a city and have that city commit to keep bidding even if they lose. I know that's a tall order considering the amount of money and effort it takes to bid, but I feel like the USOC has left a bad taste in the collective mouth of the IOC by having New York bid, lose, and then say they're no longer interested. And then for Chicago to bid, lose, and make it seem like they're not interested. Again, you can't really blame them, but look at cities like Rio and PC that kept at it and eventually won. Or, to a lesser extent, Athens and Beijing who jumped back in after a loss. The campaigning may not have to start now, but the planning sure should start to gain steam pretty soon. Applications will be do in 2015 which means if the USOC wants to conduct some sort of domestic bid process, that has to start a year or 2 earlier. This whole process has a long ways to play out and all we're doing is speculating.

I totally disagree. Campaigning for 2024 does not have to start now. Where's the precedent for that statement? Was Atlanta pushing for '96 in 1983? Was Salt Lake pushing for '02 in 1989?

Actually.. they kinda did. Salt Lake was chosen as the USOC's candidate for the 1998 Winter Olympics in June of 1989 (remember that was before Atlanta won for 1996). So again, that doesn't mean they have to start campaigning for it now, but if the wheels aren't already in motion for some behind-the-scenes planning, especially for any cities that haven't done it before, that probably needs to start happening sooner rather than later.

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Quaker, I agree with you. I would LOVE to see the USOC commit to one city and I would love to see that city keep bidding until they win. I think that determination is the way to success. That's part of why I'll never dismiss the possibility of LA.

I was waiting for somebody to say that about Salt Lake. I do think that mounting a repeat bid isn't really the same as publicly targeting a particular Olympics 13 years away. If I understand him correctly, that's what FYI is arguing must happen.

As for the behind the scenes planning, there's no way we can know if it's happening or not -- because it's behind the scenes.

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Well, if Chicago is "still interested" in the Olympics, then they can't just sit on their hands for too long. Like Quaker said, they don't have to start campaining now (that's not what I really meant anyway. Perhaps I shouldn't have used that word), but the wheels in motion should at least start to get started. And especially when Denver & Reno are knocking on the USOC's door as we speak for a 2022 bid.

Certainly if the USOC would rather have a Summer Games than a Winter ones they should know that if they bid & win 2022, then all hopes for a 2024 bid are gone. And, yes. Simply because there isn't interest now doesn't mean that their isn't. But we've discussed this "interest" umpteeth times already. "Interest" doesn't automatically translate in a BID.

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They were not targeting 2002 30 years in advance. Or 13. And their efforts were delayed by Lake Placid, LA, and Atlanta. Its apples and oranges.

If Chicago bid and won 2024 I suppose you would say they'd been working at it for 25 years...

And what about the rest of the argument? Are you suggesting that Salt Lake being eclipsed by other domestic bids is evidence that 2024 candidates must go public now? How does that follow?

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Well, if Chicago is "still interested" in the Olympics, then they can't just sit on their hands for too long. Like Quaker said, they don't have to start campaining now (that's not what I really meant anyway. Perhaps I shouldn't have used that word), but the wheels in motion should at least start to get started. And especially when Denver & Reno are knocking on the USOC's door as we speak for a 2022 bid.

Certainly if the USOC would rather have a Summer Games than a Winter ones they should know that if they bid & win 2022, then all hopes for a 2024 bid are gone. And, yes. Simply because there isn't interest now doesn't mean that their isn't. But we've discussed this "interest" umpteeth times already. "Interest" doesn't automatically translate in a BID.

Exactly. A lot of cities that have hosted an Olympics can trace the roots of the planning stages back years, even decades sometimes. Perfect example.. look at Reno/Tahoe. They've been at this since the 1980s and that was after the region having hosted in 1960. Part of the NYC2012 story was that Dan Doctoroff was inspired by the crowds at the 1994 World Cup. Ironically, the push for that event was inspired in large part by the soccer crowds at the 1984 Olympics, for which New York was the other city in the running to Los Angeles.

Like we've all been saying, it would be great if the USOC would come up with a long term plan and stick to it. When Anchorage was in the running for 1992 and 1994, I believe there was some sort of agreement that the USOC would continue to go with them until they won. Well they bowed out, Salt Lake stepped in, and I believe was given a similar deal for at least 1998 and 2002. I don't know if it's possible that we'll see that this time around, but it sure would be nice. A little determination on the part of these candidate cities would go a long way. Yes, it's tough to spend so much time and money and then have to do it again if you lose, but you know what.. if there's a city out there, winter or summer, that is willing to commit to that course of action, I would much rather see that type of city get nominated by the USOC rather than even a bigger city like New York that isn't in it for the long haul. Right now I don't think Chicago is there, but if they're willing to get back on the horse since I don't see it happening in New York, I would love to see them try.

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They were not targeting 2002 30 years in advance. Or 13. And their efforts were delayed by Lake Placid, LA, and Atlanta. Its apples and oranges.

If Chicago bid and won 2024 I suppose you would say they'd been working at it for 25 years...

And what about the rest of the argument? Are you suggesting that Salt Lake being eclipsed by other domestic bids is evidence that 2024 candidates must go public now? How does that follow?

Guys, stop.. please don't let this turn into 1 of those "don't mis-interpret my exact words, that's not what I'm saying" type of arguments. I think we're all on the same wavelength here, just looking at from a slightly different viewpoint. Can we please find a middle ground here between starting to campaign now and sketching something on a napkin 24 hours before the deadline?

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They were not targeting 2002 30 years in advance. Or 13. And their efforts were delayed by Lake Placid, LA, and Atlanta.

The point is, that Salt Lake always PERSISTED, regardless of who the USOC chose in the end to go with. Chicago has yet to make that kind of determinaton & committment. And until then, there's also NO "evidence" that they are.

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This fear of being compared to Atlanta or Barcelona or any city is utterly stupid, disingenuous and perverse. When did a bidding city ever say..."We are going to be like Barcelona! Did London ever say we are the new Sydney? Did Sochi ever say, "We are Lillehammer 2014"? Did Doha 2022 say we are South Africa 2010 fast-forwarded 12 years later?

Again, Athensfan's exaggerated and paranoid fears are totally psychotic and false. Did Rio ever say "we are the new Seoul of the early 21st century?"

What a twisted mind Athensfan has. What a psycho!!

And BTW, just to set the record straight...Chicago has been angling for an Olympics for nearly a century.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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We're not quite on the same wavelenghth.

I think it's too soon to say nobody will bid for 2024. I think it's unreasonable to say that the lack of publicity about 2024 means no one is making preparations. Although some bids have tried for decades, others succeed first time out (Atlanta).

It's not as if decades of failure are a pre-requisite for success. Persevering in the domestic process is far less demanding than persevering in the international process. If Salt Lake had been shot down in the first round by the IOC after an investment of 100 million I think they would've had the wind knocked out of them too.

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For Christ's sake! I've NEVER said that "nobody" would want to place a bid for 2024, nor that "no one is making preperations". We'll always have the delusional plots like Tulsa, Vegas & Co.

What's totally "unreasonble", though, is that you're so FIXATED on one particular city that got spurned very baldy & threw $80 million right into the air. And just think that all of the sudden they're gonna be so gung-ho to do it all over again RIGHT away simply because you think so. You did this 30 days out 'til the 2020 deadline, hoping with every bated breath that a bid would matarialize.

You wanna talk about "perserverance". Okay, look at PyeongChang. Everytime they lost, they pretty much immediately said that they were bidding again, & then a 3rd time, until they finally one. Even Munich is talking about another bid. Look at how tenacious Madrid & Istanbul have been & still are. But it looks like Chicago is taking the same path that Paris did; "you know what, we gave it our best shot, they didn't want us, so fu@k them for now".

Do I think Chicago won't ever bid again? I can't anwswer that, & that's not really the issue here, anyway. But for 2024 is extremely unlikely, just like 2020 didn't pan out. And again, what of Denver & Reno? Don't you think that if the USOC would rather have another Summer bid instead that the officials over there in Chicago are that stupid to not realize that if Denver or Reno were to bid & win 2022 that their chances for 2024 would totally be out the window. So one would "reasonably" think that if Chicago were "still interested" that they would at least mention/hint around/or give the 'wink-wink' to the USOC; "hey, guys! Remember us over here, your 2016 bid city? We MIGHT be "interested" in the 2024 Games if you guys are. So before you make any hasty 2022 Winter committment, please keep us in mind as part of your Olympic bid strategy, decision making".

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I think it's too soon to say nobody will bid for 2024. I think it's unreasonable to say that the lack of publicity about 2024 means no one is making preparations. Although some bids have tried for decades, others succeed first time out (Atlanta).

It's not as if decades of failure are a pre-requisite for success. Persevering in the domestic process is far less demanding than persevering in the international process. If Salt Lake had been shot down in the first round by the IOC after an investment of 100 million I think they would've had the wind knocked out of them too.

Alright, nuts to this trying to help play peacemaker here because Athensfan, I just don't get you sometimes. Who here said (or even implied) that no one is bidding for 2024, just because we haven't heard anything publicly? You're absolutely right it's unreasonable to assume anything about 2024. But that's just it.. we don't know what's going on behind the scenes and may not for months or years. Even if a city like Chicago or whoever else becomes interested in 2024, they may be working without any of that becoming public. You say "our conversations on these boards are limited to the information that has been made public." I call BS on that one. We're speculating and guessing here right now because there is little to no public information about 2024. And as we know, things are known to change 4 weeks out from the deadline, let alone 4 years. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not trying to draw any conclusions. I'm just guessing based on what I sense and nothing more. But, and I'm going to say it again.. this is what you what you did in the lead-up to 2020. It's almost like you're paranoid about what information is or isn't out and get defensive when someone else offers something based in opinion rather than fact. Sometimes it seems as if you're waiting for some bit of news to come out so that you're not stuck in that middle ground of "will they or won't they." Guess what.. we're gonna be there for a long time where we don't know, and most of us aren't trying to move the needle 1 way or the other. I understand some people here do think that way, but they don't know any more than the rest of us and if they think they do, their pants are probably on fire because they are a liar. Either way, remember that we're discussing this subject and trying to break it down more than anyone else out there, so things may be happening without our knowledge (or they may not be. Bottom line - we don't know and we don't know when we're going to know, only that it probably won't be any time soon.

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FYI, you did describe a lack of compelling Alpha cities and I do take issue with that. I don't consider Tulsa or Vegas options.

Based on the news stories about Blackmun "not closing the door" and the WADA paperwork press release, I did argue that the possibility of a 2020 bid was alive and i stand by that reasoning. I also said i wasn't convinced that a 2020 bid would be wise.

For 2024 we are not a month before the deadline. We are four years away. I do have a problem with the belief that an absence of publicity four years before the race even begins means that the gears aren't in motion in qualified cities.

Yes, Chicago would be my choice, but I would also be happy to see LA or NYC

How can you say with any degree of certainty that no Alpha cities have said to the USOC that they are serious about 2024? Why do you expect that all their private communications would be made public? We get partial information on Gamesbids only. Unless you are in the USOC you have no way of knowing what conversations are or are not taking place. Nor do I.

That's why we have to wait and see without jumping to the conclusion that no one other than Tulsa and Vegas are seriously interested.

It is probable that Chicago would not have wanted to bid for 2020, but even this cannot be guaranteed because lack of a revenue deal and the USOC took the decision out of their hands. Due to the nature of the 2016 loss - far more brutal than Paris - I dont see your comparison as fair and I think Chicago is totally justified in sitting out the subsequent race.

Timing is an issue as well. How many posters have questioned the wisdom of repeat bids from Madrid and Istanbul over the years? As for PC, they showed remarkable determination, but it is unreasonable to use them as a precedent and say that a city should spend 300 million on three consecutive bids before having a legitimate chance to host.

Chicago is sitting out 2020. That doesn't mean they won't enter 2024. It doesn't mean NYC or LA will sit out the race either. We don't know one way or the other. We have to wait and see rather than jumping to conclusions.

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Who here said (or even implied) that no one is bidding for 2024, just because we haven't heard anything publicly.

FYI said that. He reiterated it a couple posts ago with the Tulsa, Vegas comment.

I agree with you that we don't have enough information to arrive at firm conclusions. I don't expect to have that information for years. I'm not looking for it and I can't predict how things will turn out.

I'm just saying it's too soon to rule out the possibility of a quality bid for 2024 from LA, NYC, or Chicago.

Correction: FYI implied it.

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FYI, you did describe a lack of compelling Alpha cities and I do take issue with that. I don't consider Tulsa or Vegas options.

No, I didn't. I said IN THE EVENT that there are no Alpha cities. I've always acknowledged that out of those, Los Angeles would be the most likely to matarialize with a bid.

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FYI said that. He reiterated it a couple posts ago with the Tulsa, Vegas comment.

I agree with you that we don't have enough information to arrive at firm conclusions. I don't expect to have that information for years. I'm not looking for it and I can't predict how things will turn out.

I'm just saying it's too soon to rule out the possibility of a quality bid for 2024 from LA, NYC, or Chicago.

Correction: FYI implied it.

Okay, so he implied he doesn't think they'll bid. That's leaps and bounds different from him ruling out the possibility. That's like me saying I don't think New York isn't going to bid. It's not ruling out the possibility, it's stating an opinion now, well before the fact, that I don't see it happening. Pretty sure I'm entitled to that opinion without you interpreting it as New York is definitely not bidding and there's no possibility they will. You said "I really don't understand why people are convinced there won't be any viable candidates for 2024." No one is "convinced," we're just guessing. Can you please allow us to guess and speculate based on our intuition without you treating it like binding declaration that's not subject to change.

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