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Athensfan

USA 2024

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^Neither Madrid nor Istanbul were shown a humiliating first-round exit, particularly when the geopolitics didn't favor either one of them in their past respective races. Istanbul though, might be able to bank on their previous failures this time around. N much presume like Munich would should they bid for 2022. So Y not Chicago, too, if they were to bid again.

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That hasn't helped Istanbul or Madrid. Why Chicago?

Because Chicago had an inept, troublesome NOC scuppering their efforts throughout the 2016 campaign. That can't be said of Madrid or Istanbul's past efforts.

The USOC/IOC political acrimony was so intense during the 2016 race that I suspect it was difficult for IOC members to really see Chicago through the smoke of revenue deal angst, outrage over the Olympic network, an uninspiring revolving door of leadership, etc. Now that the wounds are starting to heal, I think Chicago is likely to get more serious consideration.

Incidentally, I also think that a repeat bidder may well carry more gravitas the second time around -- as long as the first losing attempt was still widely regarded as competitive -- which Chicago's was. This is also part of why Munich has the potential to be a strong 2022 candidate -- no matter what happens with Thomas Bach. I think that even Tokyo, Madrid and Istanbul are stronger for having previous bid experience (Beijing and Pyeongchang certainly were). If it weren't for Madrid's economy, they'd be in the thick of 2020. Obviously all three of the 2020 bidders can't win and two repeat bidders are guaranteed to lose, but that doesn't mean that a second try doesn't earn more IOC respect.

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That's a smattering of images from a quick Google search. They are only intended to provide a taste for those who have little sense of the city. How that warrants the verbal shredding that certain posters seem to perversely enjoy, I don't understand.

Much as I would love to take all of you to a play at Steppenwolf or the Goodman, the opera, the Art Institute, Shedd Aquarium, Navy Pier, countless fine restaurants, endless cultural festivals and outdoor events -- none of those things lends themselves terribly well to these boards. I wish I could find a decent picture of a Chicago sidewalk. Even little details like the urban plantings are stunning....

Pretty much all anyone can do to represent any bid city is post pictures of buildings (Chicago IS famous for its architecture), parks (which Chicago has in spades), lakefront (pretty spectacular) and river (I think its stunning).

If you all derive some pleasure out of spitting on Chicago -- I'm at a loss.

There's no personal bias coming into play for me here. I have no particular ties to Chicago -- I didn't grow up there and I have no family there. I did my undergrad there. That's it. I grew up in LA (and live here now), spent a while in NYC and lived Warwickshire in the UK while working on my Master's (consequently I spent a great deal of time in London). I know these cities well and in my opinion, Chicago is easily the US best bet for a Summer Olympic host.

I, on the other hand, do have a personal stake in Chicago getting the Games. While I have never lived there, my family is from Chicago and its suburbs (Waukeegan, Lake Forest among others) and my mother was born at Cook County. I've been to the city and to downtown multiple times. To see the Olympic flag floating in the breezes off Lake Michigan or the idea of an Olympic marathon down Lake Shore Dr. To see the skyline of Chicago framing the television beauty shots and maybe, just maybe, see the sacred and Friendly Confines of Wrigley Field hosting an event makes my heart sore.

Like I said, it's deeply personal for me. I was too young to appreciate living in the suburbs of an Olympic city (7 years old living in Orange County in 1984 for Los Angeles), so to bring the rings and the torch to a city that I know and love, one I can stake a claim as my "own" means more to me than I can say. Even though I knew Rio was the favorite from 2016, going out first was shattering. But Chicago is, at least on the North Side, a city of die-hards and Wait Until Next Year people. There will be another day, another attempt for Chicago, I just hope and pray it is soon and someday, maybe be lucky enough to welcome GamesBidders and the athletes of the world to a city that between competition and culture, will leave them with memories to last a lifetime.

Oh yeah, I want the Olympics in Chicago. I want them there BAD.

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what are Tokyo, Madrid and Istanbul's big iconic buildings again?

Tokyo I would argue for Mt. Fuji. Who needs a building when you have a dormant volcano looming overhead.

Istanbul has the Hagia Sophia.

Madrid, as much as I support the city, I do not know a distinct landmark for, sorry.

But if you are asking about Chicago, beyond Sears Tower, there is the Hancock Center, the Museum for Science and Industry, Soldier Field, Wrigley Field, the Water Tower, the Tribune Tower, the Field Museum, Navy Pier, Buckingham Fountain, Grant Park...

Don't debate Chicago architecture or culture with me. As a town where Frank Lloyd Wright did some of his finest work, as a city renowned for its culture and diversity and as a city that is, well, pretty as a postcard, trust me my friend, you are going to lose.

And lose badly.

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Tokyo I would argue for Mt. Fuji. Who needs a building when you have a dormant volcano looming overhead.

Istanbul has the Hagia Sophia.

Madrid, as much as I support the city, I do not know a distinct landmark for, sorry.

But if you are asking about Chicago, beyond Sears Tower, there is the Hancock Center, the Museum for Science and Industry, Soldier Field, Wrigley Field, the Water Tower, the Tribune Tower, the Field Museum, Navy Pier, Buckingham Fountain, Grant Park...

Don't debate Chicago architecture or culture with me. As a town where Frank Lloyd Wright did some of his finest work, as a city renowned for its culture and diversity and as a city that is, well, pretty as a postcard, trust me my friend, you are going to lose.

And lose badly.

Tokyo Tower is huge and Shibuya crossing.

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It's not just the architecture. I'm surprised that architecture is even a major factor in picking host city favorites! You can find buildings and supertalls and old stuff and the occasional Starchitect piece in any city anyway.

I can't quite put my finger on it, but you know how certain cities have this sparkle or appeal even just by the mention of their name? Arguably you'd want the Olympics to be held in a city with that ~magic~. To be honest I never thought of Chicago as host city material (and not in an I-don't-know-where-but-certainly-not-there-way -- it just didn't cross my mind), but when I found out that they were bidding for 2016, I thought, Heeeey they're right. Why didn't I think of that!

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First off.....we should be watching the NYC Olympic games right now. The anti-American sentiment that Jacques Rogge has displayed over the course of his presidency swayed the vote away from NY. If the IOC wanted Sexy, Iconic then the Olympic games should be in NY not London, which has hosted the games a few times. Let us not forget that it was the LA games that saved the modern Olympic movement. It is not hard to see Americans loose interest in the Olympics, as the amount of American Medals declines so will will our desire to watch the games. The USA could host the Olympics in both 2022 and 2036 the could host in both 2022 and 2032 if they really wanted, just like they could force the IOC to reinstate Baseball and Basketball and eliminate this stupid rule limiting the number of sports and events in the olympics...it all comes down to Money...US does not get 2022 or 2024 games...USOC works with Americas Corporate Sponsors and asks them to withhold money...let us see how fast the games are back in America. The IOC may not like this but American money is very important to the Olympic movement and without it...well...let see cities around the world make money on the games.

Wow, looks like I've missed some fun in this thread lately. You almost wouldn't know there's an actual Olympics going on right now!

Secondly... no. I live in New York and would have loved to see an Olympics here. But it wasn't destined to happen, with or without the West Side Stadium mess. Yea, it could have worked. But it wasn't the best option and I think London is proving why they were the pick. I'm totally with you that if the flow of money coming from the United States, the IOC would be begging the United States to host an Olympics. But that doesn't seem like it's happening anytime soon because the TV ratings for an Olympics that wasn't supposed to do this well are through the roof. Which is a perfect segue to...

R u talking about the original Westside Stadium for the Jets? That was never a stadium with a retractable roof. And neither was the last-minute replacement, the Mets stadium in Flushing. None of the major main Olympic stadia proposals in recent US bids came with a retractable roof. Where did u get this idea? That's a new one. As far as memory serves, Montreal was the only Olympic stadium w/in the last 50 years that actually came with a retractable roof feature.

The West Side Stadium was absolutely designed with a retractable roof in mind. The whole idea was that they could close the roof and use it as additional convention space or as an indoor venue when not being used as a football stadium. That was the plan most of the way, up until of course, the stadium plan died a slow painful death.

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To be honest I never thought of Chicago as host city material (and not in an I-don't-know-where-but-certainly-not-there-way -- it just didn't cross my mind), but when I found out that they were bidding for 2016, I thought, Heeeey they're right. Why didn't I think of that!

That perfectly encapsulates the dynamic I'm trying to describe. The Olympics could really be a coming out party for Chicago -- a la Barcelona. If Chicago is willing to try again, I strongly believe that the IOC will say to themselves, "We never really gave it much consideration, but now that we see all they have to offer, do we really want to pass this up?" The city is so much more than people realize.

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Just back from the Olympic Park having seen the Athletics and all I can say is WOW, WOW, WOW.

The stadium is stunning and is so cleverly designed that although I was in the lower tier, the view across the stadium was excellent. I had taken binoculars because I was concerned about the impact the track would have for viewing distances - never used them once. And going up to the top tier, the view of the entire field and the detail you could see was excellent.

The point I am making is that if a US city bidding could find a post games tenant, they could easily use the 80,000 seat stadium with no need to remove the track allowing for future use in a Pan-American Games, a World Championships etc as well as an American Football team as principal user.

A bid which can have the main stadium, Aquatics centre, Water Polo arena, Velodrome, BMX Track, Basketball Arena and Hockey Field within 20 minutes with a huge Olympic Village would really be a eye-opener for the IOC and really accelerate any prospects for a successful bid.

But there is a US city that could do this?

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The point I am making is that if a US city bidding could find a post games tenant, they could easily use the 80,000 seat stadium with no need to remove the track allowing for future use in a Pan-American Games, a World Championships etc as well as an American Football team as principal user.

The NFL and team owners disagree with you and their opinion is the only one that matters in this case.

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I want to see USA vs Canada again. Toronto proposed a 100,000 seater stadium for their 2008 bid. What was the proposal for the 1996 bid?

At any rate 20,000 more seats is more than any 80,000 American Olympic Stadium could offer.

And if one actually examines the 2008 Toronto bid. Many if not an absolute majority of venues well exceed their baseline capacities.

The only disappointment being Football preliminary venues, but that's a different topic.

Edited by Lord David
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I want to see USA vs Canada again. Toronto proposed a 100,000 seater stadium for their 2008 bid. What was the proposal for the 1996 bid?

At any rate 20,000 more seats is more than any 80,000 American Olympic Stadium could offer.

And if one actually examines the 2008 Toronto bid. Many if not an absolute majority of venues well exceed their baseline capacities.

The only disappointment being Football preliminary venues, but that's a different topic.

David, where is this preoccupation with stadiums coming from? The IOC is not going to choose one bid over another simply because one offers a 100,000 seat stadium and the other offers an 80,000 seat stadium. We don't even know which Games the USOC will target, much less what cities are interested, much less what they will propose as their Olympic stadium. We also don't know if Toronto will bid or if they will again propose a 100,000 seat stadium. Comparing seating capacity for mythical stadia from mythical bids seems pointless at this juncture.

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David, where is this preoccupation with stadiums coming from? The IOC is not going to choose one bid over another simply because one offers a 100,000 seat stadium and the other offers an 80,000 seat stadium. We don't even know which Games the USOC will target, much less what cities are interested, much less what they will propose as their Olympic stadium. We also don't know if Toronto will bid or if they will again propose a 100,000 seat stadium. Comparing seating capacity for mythical stadia from mythical bids seems pointless at this juncture.

Essentially as long as they meet the IOC minimum of 60,000 seats who cares?

In fact the bigger the stadium, the greater the potential the post games questions concerning usage.

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Exactly the bigger the stadium the more chances of empty seats. If I were Toronto I'd propose 80,000 max. But the 100,000 is not out of the realm of possibility.

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That is one problem with a potential Chicago bit, I am forced to admit: stadium redundancy. Chicago would have had a perfect location if the bid was considered prior to the beginning of renovations to Soldier Field. Now, Chicago is stuck with a spaceship on top of a stadium, the loss of NHR status for Soldier Field and any bid looking for a location for a stadium that would have to be downsized following the Games. What happens with Olympic Stadium in London may give them some ideas and a proven model, however.

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That is one problem with a potential Chicago bit, I am forced to admit: stadium redundancy. Chicago would have had a perfect location if the bid was considered prior to the beginning of renovations to Soldier Field. Now, Chicago is stuck with a spaceship on top of a stadium, the loss of NHR status for Soldier Field and any bid looking for a location for a stadium that would have to be downsized following the Games. What happens with Olympic Stadium in London may give them some ideas and a proven model, however.

West Ham United might move into the Olympic Stadium but I hope it could be remain the National Stadium without a tenant.

Clearly it will be able to host events like the Diamond League meetings and other athletic events. Also the footprint of stadium is big enough to hold a Twenty20 pitch so would be good for major international games as well as a neutral venue for domestic competitions. It's already going to host the 2017 IAAF World Championships.

I don't think Chicago has these options as its not the capital city.

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West Ham United might move into the Olympic Stadium but I hope it could be remain the National Stadium without a tenant.

Clearly it will be able to host events like the Diamond League meetings and other athletic events. Also the footprint of stadium is big enough to hold a Twenty20 pitch so would be good for major international games as well as a neutral venue for domestic competitions. It's already going to host the 2017 IAAF World Championships.

I don't think Chicago has these options as its not the capital city.

Might. Maybe. Could. No offense, but those are heavy buzz words for a city that already has Wembley, among other stadi.

You are right though, with the remodeled Soldier Field, Chicago does not need another large capacity stadium given they have no prospective tenant. That is why the downsize of the Olympic Stadium on London is so crucial to any prospective bids. If London pulls it off, well and good. But if not... Chicago has a problem and I'll be the first to admit it.

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Might. Maybe. Could. No offense, but those are heavy buzz words for a city that already has Wembley, among other stadi.

You are right though, with the remodeled Soldier Field, Chicago does not need another large capacity stadium given they have no prospective tenant. That is why the downsize of the Olympic Stadium on London is so crucial to any prospective bids. If London pulls it off, well and good. But if not... Chicago has a problem and I'll be the first to admit it.

I think the stadium structure in England needs to be understood.

If the City of London retained the Olympic Stadium in public ownership as a multi-purpose stadium it will be the first stadium the City actually owned

Wembley is owned by the Football Association, Twickenham is owned by the Rugby Football Union, all football stadiums in London are actually owned by the clubs who have first dibs regarding usage.

Also the location of the Olympic Stadium is in its favour as apart from Upton Park there are no major stadiums in that part of London. Barcelona and Munich's Olympic Stadium survive without a tenant club as does Seville's La Cartuja, and as really the only athletics stadium in the UK with a capacity of over 20,000 seats (once Crystal Palace is sold to the football club for redevelopment)

It would not surprise me if the Olympic Stadium was not downsized at all.

It should be noted also that Twickenham Stadium has very restricted usage in the evening as a result of the local council, so some popular club rugby games for teams like Wasps and Saracens could also be held at the Olympic Stadium. Concerts could also be easily held there due to the excellent public access which is much easier than both Wembley and Twickenham

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West Ham United might move into the Olympic Stadium but I hope it could be remain the National Stadium without a tenant.

I don't think Chicago has these options as its not the capital city.

Well Wembley is England's national stadium and since the Olympic Station will be changed to a 60,000 seater - any major events will use the 90,000 seater Wembley.

I think it's crucial for a football club to take over the stadium for it to have regular use.

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I think it's crucial for a football club to take over the stadium for it to have regular use.

Such as an American Football team? Goodell wants to put a team in London, well, there's your stadium right there.

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Well I mean hell, considering it's only 190 miles from your current location, I'd say you're failing geography then.

Well I mean hell, considering it's only 190 miles from your current location, I'd say you're failing geography then.

Cleveland I just saw the arena's name so I know now ...

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What city is that? I don't even know and I am studying geography.... So much for iconic

It's Cleavland, Ohio. The giveaway is the name on the stadium.

Back on topic, I just really hope London does come up with a good post-use plan for Olympic Stadium. The transformation in East London is extraordinary, but for naught if it is not put to good use. Either way, to bring it full circle, a good lesson for Chicago.

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