USA 2024

[Athensfan]

I disagree... it is too dangerous to wait 2024 with a bid from South Africa, a possible bid from Paris and a strong bid from Toronto just a few years after the PanAm Games !

2022 is just waiting for them to bid... if they don't go for 2022 and will probably lost 2024 they will still have to wait for 2026 for winter games or 2028 for summer (depending if Toronto would have won 2024)....

It depends on the goal. If the goal is to host any Olympics in any city as fast as possible, then yes, the US should bid for 2022. To me that seems like a very foolish way to spend the hard-earned goodwill won through the revenue deal.

If the goal is to land Summer Games, then a 2024 bid still makes sense. They would have to enter the race knowing it would be a gamble and knowing that if they lost it would position them very well for the next try.

The real problem, however, isn't South Africa -- it's Toronto. The US cannot allow Toronto to be the only North American alternative to a South African bid. On the off-chance South Africa pulls out or cannot deliver a respectable bid, Toronto could swoop in and grab 2024. That would spell disaster for the future of American Summer Olympics.

I'm also not at all convinced that the US would be strong contenders for 2022. The interested cities all have major weaknesses and I believe all of them would struggle against the likes of Oslo, Munich, the Swiss bid, etc.

[FYI]

It depends on the goal. If the goal is to host any Olympics in any city as fast as possible, then yes, the US should bid for 2022. To me that seems like a very foolish way to spend the hard-earned goodwill won through the revenue deal.

The real problem, however, isn't South Africa -- it's Toronto. The US cannot allow Toronto to be the only North American alternative to a South African bid. On the off-chance South Africa pulls out or cannot deliver a respectable bid, Toronto could swoop in and grab 2024. That would spell disaster for the future of American Summer Olympics.

Precisely Y I'm saying that any U.S. hopeful summer candidates need to start to speak up now, AF. Not only do the Winter 2022 U.S. wannabes get in the way of a U.S. Summer Games, but so do R friends north of the border.

I'm with you on this, though! We need a Summer Olympics before another Summer Games, & even though the City of Toronto is only in preliminary talks right now, at least they're talking about it. Which is much more than can be said for any U.S. city, other than the Winter wannabes.

*meant to say we need a Summer Olympics before another WINTER Games.

[Athensfan]

Precisely Y I'm saying that any U.S. hopeful summer candidates need to start to speak up now, AF. Not only do the Winter 2022 U.S. wannabes get in the way of a U.S. Summer Games, but so do R friends north of the border.

I'm with you on this, though! We need a Summer Olympics before another Summer Games, & even though the City of Toronto is only in preliminary talks right now, at least they're talking about it. Which is much more than can be said for any U.S. city, other than the Winter wannabes.

*meant to say we need a Summer Olympics before another WINTER Games.

They need to speak up to the USOC now. I don't see why they have to issue a press release or launch a media campaign. I don't think we're in a state of emergency. As long as the US doesn't allow Toronto to be the sole North American candidate, we're ok. There's still plenty of time for that to happen.

[Blacksheep]

Which US cities would beat out Toronto? I wonder if LA can provide something new and exciting to entice the IOC over maybe another major US city which might provide that 'wow' appeal like NY or Chicago or maybe even Miami if they were to bid for, win and host a successful 2019 Pan American Games and use it as a stepping stone (ok, there are a lot of 'ifs' with that one)

[mattperiolat]

Which US cities would beat out Toronto? I wonder if LA can provide something new and exciting to entice the IOC over maybe another major US city which might provide that 'wow' appeal like NY or Chicago or maybe even Miami if they were to bid for, win and host a successful 2019 Pan American Games and use it as a stepping stone (ok, there are a lot of 'ifs' with that one)

I believe either Chicago or LA could do very well against Toronto. LA has experience, facilities ready to go and is fairly compact. Chicago just needs to answer the stadium question, polish up the bid book to ensure their original compact games plan is viable and they should be in good shape.

No offense to other US cities but with Toronto and SA already making their intentions clear, there is no time to waste in seeing if a city MIGHT be ready and MIGHT have a good plan. LA or Chicago are the best arrows in the quiver, so let's go with them.

[Athensfan]

I agree with everything above except "let's go with them." I think the USOC has more information than we do and will be better able to appraise whether those cities or someone else are best suited to be the next candidate.

That said, IF Chicago and LA want to bid, I believe either one would be a strong contender. Even though I live in LA, my vote would go to Chicago.

[intoronto]

The only two cities that can beat Toronto would be Chicago (might I add my personal favourite besides Toronto) or New York

[Athensfan]

The only two cities that can beat Toronto would be Chicago (might I add my personal favourite besides Toronto) or New York

Not only could LA or San Francisco beat Toronto, I think Philly or Dallas could.

Just 14 years after Vancouver for a relatively small country that is not a Summer sports power? It's not likely. Plus the US has the revenue deal, the sympathy of recent losses and the sporting and economic prowess to be a much more compelling candidate.

IF the US bids.....

[intoronto]

Not only could LA or San Francisco beat Toronto, I think Philly or Dallas could.

Just 14 years after Vancouver for a relatively small country that is not a Summer sports power? It's not likely. Plus the US has the revenue deal, the sympathy of recent losses and the sporting and economic prowess to be a much more compelling candidate.

IF the US bids.....

No way do cities like Dallas or Phili win over Toronto. Maybe San Francisco which I forgot. LA a repeat bid won't win (Yea London won but what was the other choice Paris which also was a repeat host).

1) Revenue deal that took forever to negotiate which probably left a sour taste in some IOC members.

2) There was one bid that probably was surprised when it lost (Chicago). New York was not winning when 2012 was almost guaranteed for a European win.

3) How is Canada small? It is the second largest country in the world + has a top 10 economy. So if Canada is small what is "big"? Canada might not be a power but it is a top 15 country in summer sports. Again winter should and probably does not influence summer hosting. Lake Placid/LA and Montreal/Calgary.

4) Sporting and economic prowess to be a much more compelling candidate. A country which seems to be declining in almost everything. Economy sucks, China has overtaken the USA as the top summer nation.

5) Toronto has the three things the USA does not have which you indicated. Favour with the IOC after a successful Vancouver Games, sympathy of two summer loses (third in 96 and second in 08 first in 24?) Finally Canada has a much more sound economy and is actually improving in the summer games not taking a step back.

The above is a mix of opinion and fact please do not take it personally.

[Athensfan]

First, population wise (which is what matters when it comes to the Olympics) Canada is relatively small.

Second, yes they have suffered losses, but the US losses were more recent, more surprising and did much more damage to US/IOC relations.

It is widely recognized that Vancouver was partly compensation for Toronto's losses. I don't think the IOC feels they owe Canada anything. I do think the IOC wants to protect and preserve their relationship with the US.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the American cities that can beat Toronto.

Remember, it's not just the city, it's the politics. Considering recent history, I think it would be EXTREMELY insulting for the IOC to pass over the US in favor of Canada. If the US lost to South Africa or Paris it would be disappointing and frustrating, but losing to Canada has big geopolitical/ continental rotation implications. It would be a huge slap to the US. In effect the IOC would be saying "Not only do we not want you now, we don't want you for another decade at least." I have a hard time believing the IOC would do that to the United States after Chicago and this sweetheart revenue deal. It would have very grave repercussions.

Thats why I believe any credible American candidate has a very good chance against Toronto.

Of course, if the US doesn't bid, I don't think the IOC would have many qualms about voting for Toronto and the US wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on if they wanted to complain.

[intoronto]

First, population wise (which is what matters when it comes to the Olympics) Canada is relatively small.

Second, yes they have suffered losses, but the US losses were more recent, more surprising and did much more damage to US/IOC relations.

It is widely recognized that Vancouver was partly compensation for Toronto's losses. I don't think the IOC feels they owe Canada anything. I do think the IOC wants to protect and preserve their relationship with the US.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the American cities that can beat Toronto.

Remember, it's not just the city, it's the politics. Considering recent history, I think it would be EXTREMELY insulting for the IOC to pass over the US in favor of Canada. If the US lost to South Africa or Paris it would be disappointing and frustrating, but losing to Canada has big geopolitical/ continental rotation implications. It would be a huge slap to the US. In effect the IOC would be saying "Not only do we not want you now, we don't want you for another decade at least." I have a hard time believing the IOC would do that to the United States after Chicago and this sweetheart revenue deal. It would have very grave repercussions.

Thats why I believe any credible American candidate has a very good chance against Toronto.

Of course, if the US doesn't bid, I don't think the IOC would have many qualms about voting for Toronto and the US wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on if they wanted to complain.

I agree with everything you are saying actually (minus you thinking 34 million is small). However I do have to raise he point that NA will have to host a WOG soon since Asia got 2018. The only option would be the States. Canada does not have an viable hosts (a repeat is possible but not too soon) left for the WOG.

The loses there was one loss that was surprising all other loses were not.

Off course the IOC doesn't "owe" Canada anything but after the 2010 Games Canada and the IOC have excellent relations.

Looking at the city for a minute Toronto has lost twice and their must be some sympathy am I right for repeat bidders?

If Toronto wins 2024, 2030 USA WOG wouldn't be a stretch would it?

[Athensfan]

I agree with everything you are saying actually (minus you thinking 34 million is small). However I do have to raise he point that NA will have to host a WOG soon since Asia got 2018. The only option would be the States. Canada does not have an viable hosts (a repeat is possible but not too soon) left for the WOG.

The loses there was one loss that was surprising all other loses were not.

Off course the IOC doesn't "owe" Canada anything but after the 2010 Games Canada and the IOC have excellent relations.

Looking at the city for a minute Toronto has lost twice and their must be some sympathy am I right for repeat bidders?

If Toronto wins 2024, 2030 USA WOG wouldn't be a stretch would it?

34 million is RELATIVELY small -- relative to the US. That's the comparison we're discussing.

Toronto already got its sympathy with Vancouver. Choosing Canada over the US in 2024 would do so much damage and create so much anger that I seriously doubt the US would bid for 2030.

Recent votes have made it clear that the IOC is determined to move the Games around the globe as much as possible. Why come back to Canada so soon? Vancouver was respectable, but not to die for. Certainly nothing to compel the IOC to race back a mere 14 years later.

Just like 2012 and 2016 were too soon for the US, 2024 is too soon for Canada.

[intoronto]

34 million is RELATIVELY small -- relative to the US. That's the comparison we're discussing.

Toronto already got its sympathy with Vancouver. Choosing Canada over the US in 2024 would do so much damage and create so much anger that I seriously doubt the US would bid for 2030.

Recent votes have made it clear that the IOC is determined to move the Games around the globe as much as possible. Why come back to Canada so soon? Vancouver was respectable, but not to die for. Certainly nothing to compel the IOC to race back a mere 14 years later.

Just like 2012 and 2016 were too soon for the US, 2024 is too soon for Canada.

48 years after Montreal the Last summer games in Canada is not too soon. 28 years which is almost half of 48 is too soon (Atlanta to 2024)

[Athensfan]

Toronto's best hope is for the US to give up on Summer Games and focus on Winter bids. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen.

48 years after Montreal the Last summer games in Canada is not too soon. 28 years which is almost half of 48 is too soon (Atlanta to 2024)

So you're just going to ignore Calgary and Vancouver completely? Considering Canada's population, economic strength and limited Summer strength, considering their recent hosting, I believe there should be more than a 14 year gap between Games, yes.

[intoronto]

Toronto's best hope is for the US to give up on Summer Games and focus on Winter bids. I sincerely hope that doesn't happen.

So you're just going to ignore Calgary and Vancouver completely? Considering Canada's population, economic strength and limited Summer strength, considering their recent hosting, I believe there should be more than a 14 year gap between Games, yes.

Not necessarily but looking at the SOG which the 2024 games will be its what the gap between hostings should be decided upon.

[Athensfan]

Not necessarily but looking at the SOG which the 2024 games will be its what the gap between hostings should be decided upon.

You're saying that because it works in your favor. It's not a solid argument though. You have to look at the bigger picture. Picking and choosing which facts to consider and which ones to conveniently ignore will not ultimately be persuasive.

[FYI]

Agree with you 110%, Athenfan.

[intoronto]

You're saying that because it works in your favor. It's not a solid argument though. You have to look at the bigger picture. Picking and choosing which facts to consider and which ones to conveniently ignore will not ultimately be persuasive.

That is like yourself as well. I am not ignoring the 14 year gap but considering these are the Summer Games you have to see when the country last hosted the SOG t o gauge their chances. 48 years wait is a pretty long wait, especially considering the USA has hosted 2 SOG after 1976 and wants a third before Canada gets a second.

[Athensfan]

That is like yourself as well. I am not ignoring the 14 year gap but considering these are the Summer Games you have to see when the country last hosted the SOG t o gauge their chances. 48 years wait is a pretty long wait, especially considering the USA has hosted 2 SOG after 1976 and wants a third before Canada gets a second.

But the US is a much bigger sporting power that contributes FAR more money to the Olympic movement than any other country. The US market has been the Olympics bread and butter.

If Canada gets 2024, the US will have to wait until the 40's to host -- approximately 50 years after Atlanta. Making an athletic powerhouse who is the single biggest source of revenue wait that long would do serious damage.

You are acting like its apples to apples. As if Canada and the US should somehow be kept equal in terms of hosting just because we are neighbors. That simply doesn't make sense. This is an apples and oranges situation.

[Athensfan]

Just for some perspective, Canada's population is 34.1 million. The United States' population is 311.6 million -- almost 10 times as large -- and the US is consistently one of the top medal-winning countries for both Summer and Winter Games with a storied sporting and Olympic legacy (unlike a populous nation such as India). Add to that the huge influx of capital the IOC receives from the US and it most definitely is not reasonable to say that Canada should expect to be treated similarly. Three games in 34 years is VERY good for a nation of 34 million.

[Quaker2001]

That is like yourself as well. I am not ignoring the 14 year gap but considering these are the Summer Games you have to see when the country last hosted the SOG t o gauge their chances. 48 years wait is a pretty long wait, especially considering the USA has hosted 2 SOG after 1976 and wants a third before Canada gets a second.

You can count on 1 hand the number of nations that have hosted more than 1 Summer Olympics (unless you want to count Germany/West Germany). So I don't buy the "48 years is a long wait" angle especially when you have nations like Japan, Italy, and France who have gone longer than Canada without hosting a Summer Olympics. Wouldn't use the United States either as your basis of comparison.. I see nothing wrong with the United States having hosted 3 SOG in a half-century to Canada's 1.

Also, I don't buy the Toronto sympathy card either. They lost 1996 to an underwhelming Atlanta bid. Then they didn't try again until 2008 and lost to Beijing (can't necessarily argue that one) and gave way to Vancouver. So Toronto hardly qualifies as a repeat bidder like Rio or Istanbul or Tokyo that deserves some praise for being persistent. I'm not in any way knocking Toronto's credentials, especially if the PanAms go well. I just question how favorable 2024 is for them as if Canada is starved for a Summer Olympics.

[intoronto]

Also, I don't buy the Toronto sympathy card either. They lost 1996 to an underwhelming Atlanta bid. Then they didn't try again until 2008 and lost to Beijing (can't necessarily argue that one) and gave way to Vancouver. So Toronto hardly qualifies as a repeat bidder like Rio or Istanbul or Tokyo that deserves some praise for being persistent. I'm not in any way knocking Toronto's credentials, especially if the PanAms go well. I just question how favorable 2024 is for them as if Canada is starved for a Summer Olympics.

Bidding is bidding. Two times and the next bid being the third.

[dave199]

Even though the US and the IOC came to a revenue sharing agreement which is totally great, I can still see a lot of resentment within the IOC and its members. Just because a deal was agreed upon doesn't mean it has instantly healed all the relationships that were negatively affected. Just my two cents! I still think a Winter Olympics can be won by the USA within the next 1-2 cycles. It's due to come back to North America. How many hosting options are there for the WOG, not many. The USA and Canada will be counted on to host every 20 years.

[Gold Coast Lions]

I think the best way to deal with this Canada USA issue is this who was the last host for both Summer and Winter Games it was the USA that hosted the last 2 Summer Olympics in North America Los Angeles 1984 and Atlanta 1996 and by 2024 it will have been 48 years since Canada last hosted it only Summer Olympics Games Montreal 1976 so really it's Canada turn to host the next Games and who was the last winter Olympic host in North America it was Vancouver Canada 2010 and before that it was Salt Lake City 2002 and before that it was Calgary Canada 1988 so it's USA turn to host the next Winter Olympics.

Next 4 Olympics Games in North America I think will be this

2018 Summer Youth Olympics Games Guadalajara Jalisco Mexico

2022 Winter Olympics and Paralympics Games Reno - Lake Tahoe Nevada and California United States of America

2024 Summer Olympics and Paralympics Games Toronto Ontario Canada

2032 Summer Olympics and Paralympics Games Los Angeles California, Miami Florida, Houston Texas or New York City New York United States of America

2034 Winter Olympics and Paralympics Games Calgary Alberta Canada.

[mattygs]

I agree with Athens, summer/winter/autumn, spring for all I care - it's still the Olympic flame lighting up Canadian skies 4 times within 50 years, I still think that's huuuuuge.

Not many nations can lay claim to that, nations that are probably stronger in winter/summer sport combined compared to Canada.