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Where do you think the next Olympics in South America will be?


SantaCruz

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Well, Chile is ahead to be the second olympic host of South America in my opinion. And more, they deserve it. What a country they are building there. :)

I hope so Danny!

In my personal experiences of travelling to Argentina and Chile (which, admittedly, is a few years ago now), both turned out exactly the opposite to my preconceptions (and my revelation has been backed up a few times in more recent years by friends who've also been to both). I'd imagined BA would be the thriving metropolis, the "Paris of the South", and Chile (after my partner's tales of growing up poor in Santiago), I'd expected to be run-down and oppressed.

Now, don't get me wrong, I liked BA (a place doesn't need to be prosperous for me to think it has charm), but it sure was run-down, depressed, poor, and its grand buildings had sure seen better days. More than once (including here) I've used the term "faded glory" to describe it.

Santiago, on the other hand, was a real eye-opener. It may not have as many tourist sites as BA, but what I did find was a modern, developed, prosperous city that rivalled many of the buzzing and prosperous metropoli of Nth America-Europe-Oz I'd been to. I was interested to see you describe Chile as potentially South America's first first-world country, Danny. From my experience, it's certainly not far off achieving that.

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Now, don't get me wrong, I liked BA (a place doesn't need to be prosperous for me to think it has charm), but it sure was run-down, depressed, poor, and its grand buildings had sure seen better days. More than once (including here) I've used the term "faded glory" to describe it.

What year did you travel there?

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What year did you travel there?

10 years ago now (sh!t, time flies), in 2001. I'll probably be back in Santiago again later this year (in December - or early January 2012). But this time I'm hoping to combine it with a trip to Rio rather than BA.

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Well, I think that I've mentioned before that doesn't seem to be a fair assessment since in that period Argentina had faced it's biggest financial crisis ever. Any prosperous country after facing such fiscal disaster could appear to be "faded glory". Since then Argentina has rebounded. So a current visit could prove to give another impression.

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Well, I think that I've mentioned before that doesn't seem to be a fair assessment since in that period Argentina had faced it's biggest financial crisis ever. Any prosperous country after facing such fiscal disaster could appear to be "faded glory". Since then Argentina has rebounded. So a current visit could prove to give another impression.

Though, from the descriptions of Danny and other latinos here, it doesn't sound like a lot has changed. And friends (including Argentinians) who've been more recently (as recent as last year) also tell me it's still not in great shape.

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Though, from the descriptions of Danny and other latinos here, it doesn't sound like a lot has changed. And friends (including Argentinians) who've been more recently (as recent as last year) also tell me it's still not in great shape.

I've never been there (but would love to go), but all the people I've ever come across that have visited loved it. Always saying how "European" it is, unlike any other Latin American city. And I've always heard the dub "the Paris of South America". But if it's still in rough shape, then maybe an Olympics is what Buenos Aires needs down the road. I mean look at Barcelona before it hosted. It was nothing but a run-down industrial town.

And TBH, I really can't go by Danny's 'gloom & doom' Argentine perceptions too much. I mean, the Brazilian's & the Argentine's have this major rivalry thing going that I think that neither side can ever be really objective towards the other. And KRATK's post refuting all of Danny's Argentina "woes" seem to highlight that for me even moreso.

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I want to put one thing clear. I have all the rivalry with Argentina about soccer/football, but not with the country. I have (few) friends from there.

And indeed, I'm not trying to sell Brazil is the best most generous beloved country of South America. Chile have better HDI and probably will be the first South American "first-world-like" country in few decades.

Argentina have a huge problem called populism and something we from Latin America know very well: lack of humble attitude or the "argentine way of being stupid".

Since 2001, Argentina didn't advanced too much, maybe, even have low its standards.

I'm a regular reader of La Nacion newspaper (I learned Spanish and the bad English I speak by reading newspapers online). Even the argentine people is not hopeful about their country.

Somehow they can't leave their "glorious past" to oversee the future. They see the world like 80 years ago: Brazil is a country full of monkeys, Chile is a tiny beach in the otherside of Andes, USA is guilty for all disgrace of Latin America and Argentina is the Europe of South - They couldn't be so wrong now-a-days.

If you check the economy of Argentina, the Brazilian Oil Company has more market value than entire Argentina GDP. Their biggest companies are now Brazilian or Chilean. They are not able to fix the Buenos Aires airport radar for long 6 years, leaving the job to Brazilian radar control in Curitiba. If Bolivia does not sell gas with lower prices, they can't have school classes due lack of calefation... And worse, they owe LOTS of money to... Venezuela!!!

This is the now-a-days Argentina. If Brazil was the country of future, Argentina is the country of the past. It's the only thing an Argentine talks about. Argentina today, UNFORTUNATELLY, is a big non-well-conserved museum.

And TBH, I really can't go by Danny's 'gloom & doom' Argentine perceptions too much. I mean, the Brazilian's & the Argentine's have this major rivalry thing going that I think that neither side can ever be really objective towards the other. And KRATK's post refuting all of Danny's Argentina "woes" seem to highlight that for me even moreso.

FYI, somehow, it seems you think I'm moved about rivalries and defensiveness... You should know me better.

KRATK agreed with me in part, they refused my comment about economy indexes by pointing IMF is trustable.

But IMF does not cast indexes for Argentina anymore due lack of trustability.

So.........................

If you don't believe in my POV, please, google it (again). :)

Argentina and Buenos Aires worths a visit. It's still charming in its way. Don't wait to see modern things. Maybe the newest bus I've seen in Argentina dates back to the 60s.

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And TBH, I really can't go by Danny's 'gloom & doom' Argentine perceptions too much. I mean, the Brazilian's & the Argentine's have this major rivalry thing going that I think that neither side can ever be really objective towards the other. And KRATK's post refuting all of Danny's Argentina "woes" seem to highlight that for me even moreso.

Actually, that's funny. Usually it's the Chilenos and Argentinos who have the biggest rivalry - hence my mention that some of my friends who've been recently and expressed disappointment are Argentinians (with a latin partner, it seems the majority of our mutual friends in Sydney are latinos).

It's still worthwhile going - Buenos Aires IS nice. Like I said, I don't think a place needs prosperity to have charm - if anything, I think some of the poorer places I've been have far more local colour and attraction than places that become almost generic westernised once they start enjoying prosperity. IMO, for example, BA is a far more interesting tourist destination than Santiago, even if Santiago is far more prosperous. It's also why, for example, I still hope to get to Cuba while the Castros are still in charge, and before yankee dollars flood in and change the place in a post-Castro world.

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Actually, that's funny. Usually it's the Chilenos and Argentinos who have the biggest rivalry - hence my mention that some of my friends who've been recently and expressed disappointment are Argentinians (with a latin partner, it seems the majority of our mutual friends in Sydney are latinos).

Actually, all South Americans have huge rivalry with Argentines due their racism-based society and their attitude with the other South American nationals.

Not to mention that in a continent without wars for almost two centuries, soccer is the bar to measure how great a country can be... And in Soccer, Argentina is the enemy of everybody (maybe in the world).

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Argentina have a huge problem called populism and something we from Latin America know very well: lack of humble attitude or the "argentine way of being stupid".

I've heard this dub, too; "the French of South America". :lol:;)

But seriously, I'm not saying that Argentina in anyway is suppose to be more prosperous than Brazil.

I've always had the relative perception that Brazil's the "U.S." of South America, with the biggest economy, biggest population & biggest diversity than any other country in Latin America. While Argentina's the "Canada" of South America, with the smaller economy but still better off than most of it's smaller neighbors to the north of the continent.

It's not that I'm trying to doubt you. I'm sure most of those description on how the Argentine's view their neighbors are correct. I've heard most of them before too. I'm just trying to be objective on some of the other issues that some of you were discussing earlier, since you guys down there would have the best scope on the situations down there than any of us on the opposite ends of the hemisphere.

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Actually, all South Americans have huge rivalry with Argentines due their racism-based society and their attitude with the other South American nationals.

Not to mention that in a continent without wars for almost two centuries, soccer is the bar to measure how great a country can be... And in Soccer, Argentina is the enemy of everybody (maybe in the world).

LOL. I love some of the stories I've heard.

When me and my partner were flying LAN Chile back to BA from Santiago, I was in in Business Class (I'd tacked the holiday onto a work trip) and he was in economy, sitting next to an Argentinian lady. Because he'd been in Australia so long, she didn't pick his accent (and certainly assumed he was't Chilean). So she spent the whole trip bitching about Chile and how Menem had married that "Puta Chilena" Bolocco, and Chileans were trying to sabotage the Argentinian economy etc etc. She got a huge shock when he only told her he was Chilean when they were getting off the flight.

The other story I like is about the Christ of the Andes statue on the border. The Argentinians say he's facing them because he favours them. The Chileans say he is facing them because he dare not turn his back on them.

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Well, I'll left here an opinion left by an American who lived in Buenos Aires recently and now lives in Rio

http://riogringa.typepad.com/my_weblog/2011/02/dont-hate-on-me-argentina.html

Maybe, more "impartial" than my "glooms and dooms".

LOL. I love some of the stories I've heard.

When me and my partner were flying LAN Chile back to BA from Santiago, I was in in Business Class (I'd tacked the holiday onto a work trip) and he was in economy, sitting next to an Argentinian lady. Because he'd been in Australia so long, she didn't pick his accent (and certainly assumed he was't Chilean). So she spent the whole trip bitching about Chile and how Menem had married that "Puta Chilena" Bolocco, and Chileans were trying to sabotage the Argentinian economy etc etc. She got a huge shock when he only told her he was Chilean when they were getting off the flight.

The other story I like is about the Christ of the Andes statue on the border. The Argentinians say he's facing them because he favours them. The Chileans say he is facing them because he dare not turn his back on them.

We have a lot of similar histories here in Brazil too...

One thing I admire on the argentines is their way of humour, always putting Argentine as the top of a world that does not exist. It's funny.

Once in a Varig flight from Miami to Sao Paulo, a deported Argentine said that if the flight needs to have less weight, he would jump to save the lives of all (most Brazilians) in the airplane, but only if we applaud him and the nation of Argentina before! *lol*

I said to him: better leave the plane to crash... :P

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Well, I'll left here an opinion left by an American who lived in Buenos Aires recently and now lives in Rio

http://riogringa.typepad.com/my_weblog/2011/02/dont-hate-on-me-argentina.html

Maybe, more "impartial" than my "glooms and dooms".

I never said that Argentina is, or ever was, the most "superior" country in Latin America.

Like I said in my last post, I've always had the perception that Brazil was more like the "U.S. of South America" due it's relative similarities on economy, population & diversity within their respective continents.

What this woman talks about in her blog is not at all what I meant. You took it out of context.

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I never said that Argentina is, or ever was, the most "superior" country in Latin America.

Like I said in my last post, I've always had the perception that Brazil was more like the "U.S. of South America" due it's relative similarities on economy, population & diversity within their respective continents.

What this woman talks about in her blog is not at all what I meant. You took it out of context.

No, you misundestood me. I'm not comparing your comments with hers.

I only wanted you to check a different opinion than mine one.

She and me share some similar opinion about how Argentine oversee the world.

:)

I couldn't agree more on Brazil being the US of South America (and with all things South America could mean - or the US that never was but can be someday in a far future).

I only wanted you to check a different opinion than mine one.

Sorry, I meant:

I only wanted you to check a IMPARTIAL opinion compared to mine one, since she's not Brazilian

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Anyway, my bet for second country host Olympics in South America is Chile, and, maybe as a prize to celebrate their arrival in 0,900s HDI in the next decades to come.

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Back on topic, one of the problems I see with Santiago as a Summer Olympics host is the climate. I was there in southern summer, and the weather was glorious - warm in the day, but because it's at the base of the cordillera, still cool at night. But I understand it does get very cold in southern winter - exactly the time frame the IOC now specifies for the summer games.

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Where ever the next South American Games are, the earliest I see them happening is 2056 - four decades and 10 Games after Rio. With Asia rising, Africa on the "never hosted" list, the endless supply of Euro bids, and the USA/North America eventually due for a Games, I don't think there's a lot of room to run back so quickly to South America. It took 120 years and 31 Olympiads just to get us to the 2016 Games and Rio has to perform first. A lot can happen in that time. Look at the world during the Montreal games. Who would have thought a short 40 years later we'd have games in China (a non-participant and controversial issue in 1976), back to London for a third time, getting set for Rio, and all without the Soviet Union, German Democratic Republic and with South Africa back in the movement (part of the problem that caused the African 1976 boycott).

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I've heard this dub, too; "the French of South America". :lol:;)

But seriously, I'm not saying that Argentina in anyway is suppose to be more prosperous than Brazil.

I've always had the relative perception that Brazil's the "U.S." of South America, with the biggest economy, biggest population & biggest diversity than any other country in Latin America. While Argentina's the "Canada" of South America, with the smaller economy but still better off than most of it's smaller neighbors to the north of the continent.

It's not that I'm trying to doubt you. I'm sure most of those description on how the Argentine's view their neighbors are correct. I've heard most of them before too. I'm just trying to be objective on some of the other issues that some of you were discussing earlier, since you guys down there would have the best scope on the situations down there than any of us on the opposite ends of the hemisphere.

I miss this post... Sorry FYI, now I understand the whole talking!!! :wacko:

I do think Chile is the Canada of South America, Paraguay is Mexico and Argentina, well, they are argentines!!! :P

I've been to Argentina and can say. They are nice when they want to, but their vision of world is really lost in past. It's like a country that stopped in time (see the hair-style of argentine people and you get my point).

TBH, for Brazil is not nice at all to have our main commercial partner in the situation they are. Can be a bit funny in internet forums of soccer/football, but not to our economy. For Brazil, it's interesting to have Argentina, Chile and all other strong...

They call it "Brazil is preparing its backyard" and I'd say, we need them strong to form a South American market...

Anyway, Argentina now-a-days are completely lost in their populist politicians, strong corruption and totally crazy inflation for the 21st century. Let's agree, it's not a good scenario for a Olympic Games bids.

But I agree with you, for 2040s, the world can change a lot. Even Sao Paulo can become a nice city for Olympics!!! (Ok, new battle arguments!!!) :DB)

*Actually Argentina is the third biggest commercial partner of Brazil. China is first and USA is second. Argentina is the main partner in South America. :)

Back on topic, one of the problems I see with Santiago as a Summer Olympics host is the climate. I was there in southern summer, and the weather was glorious - warm in the day, but because it's at the base of the cordillera, still cool at night. But I understand it does get very cold in southern winter - exactly the time frame the IOC now specifies for the summer games.

It would be something similar to the last World Cup in South Africa.

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What are you talking about? Argentina did have a big crisis ten years ago but they are developing really fast. HDI is increasing every year (in the past report, Argentina went three spots up to 43th place, 1 place below Chile and almost 30 places over Brazil). It's the country with the largest GDP per capita in South America and its economy is growing at 6% per year. The only BIG problem is inflation.

THe social indexes of Argentina are good but because they were basically an european country in South America until few decades ago...they had a good base.

Anyway, their economical foundations are terrible. Growing the gpd 6% with 20-26% of inflation (according to international/independent sources) means absolutely nothing. Seriously... There's nothing worse in an economy than hiper-inflation.

What they have there is populism at its finest. Unfortunately the future generations will pay the price...And nothing seems to suggest that the government will change anytime soon.

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Here's a source in english, the best I could find, talking about Argentina's "real" inflation in 2010:

Argentina’s inflation third highest in the world, say private consultants

Private consultants estimate that Argentina’s inflation in 2009 and in spite of the devalued government statistics was the third highest in the world behind the Democratic Republic of Congo and Venezuela.

According to the administration of President Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner inflation in Argentina last year was below 8% taking into consideration that the accumulated in the first eleven months of 2009 was 6.7%.

However independent economists, business organizations, consultants, consumer groupings and even trade unions indicate that “real, non cosmetic” inflation in 2009 ranged between 15% and 18%.

Thus according to private consultants in Buenos Aires and some provincial governments which have their own statistics offices, Argentina ranks third in the IMF inflation list which has Congo with 31.2% at the top followed by President Hugo Chavez Venezuela with 28%.

Read more:

http://en.mercopress.com/2010/01/05/argentinas-inflation-third-highest-in-the-world-say-private-consultants

I've heard this dub, too; "the French of South America". :lol:;)

But seriously, I'm not saying that Argentina in anyway is suppose to be more prosperous than Brazil.

I've always had the relative perception that Brazil's the "U.S." of South America, with the biggest economy, biggest population & biggest diversity than any other country in Latin America. While Argentina's the "Canada" of South America, with the smaller economy but still better off than most of it's smaller neighbors to the north of the continent.

You don't need to laugh at it. The dub was accurate few decades ago but they went downhill really fast...

Anyway, Argentina is more like the Mexico of South American during the PRI days and even that wouldn't be quite fair to Mexico...

Argentina will get 'broke' again like brazil did in the 90's before rising and then, hopefully, they'll have a sustainable growth...

Back to the Bids:

As someone said, Colombia could get the next SA World Cup but I see them being able to host the Olympic Games in the next 20-30 years.

Btw, let's not kid ourselves, 30 years is too much. Almost every big country could host it in 30 years... WTF was China 30 years ago?

Even Europe's economy is melting down... we don't know what the world will look like in 2040...

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Reading La Nación is just like believing in INDEC, imho.

Argentina is growing a lot (look at the last IMF report... they are calculating index of Argentina ;) ) and you can see that in Buenos Aires. New and modern buildings, much more employement and so on. The problem is probably outside Buenos Aires and with the poorest people where the rising of the food prices hit strong. Argentina has a lot of money in their hands now and they can certainly put a bid and organize a Olympics. But it wouldn't be social responsible nor well organized. As you said, Argentina is full with populism (Cristina K is the less of all evils) and that is the main problem about them.

I've had the pleasure of visiting Buenos Aires a lot of times since 2009. Sure, BA is more a nostalgic place than a flourishing city, but it's not comparable with Havana. They are developing but not to the level they had in the first half of the 20th century when they were a developed country.

And I agree that at this moment, Santiago is a much better option than Buenos Aires. If BA is the Paris of SA, we are the London. Not as charming, not as funny, but much more serious and efficient... when we the students are not trying to sabotage a government :P

PS: Owing money to Venezuela is the best thing you can do. They can stop paying their duties whenever they want. What is the worst that Venezuela can do? Stop selling oil, that Argentina can buy in any other place. I don't think Chávez will go to international organizations to demand their money back... :P

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If they have lots of money why they beg for enegy to Brazil, Paraguay and Bolivia during winter season???

Or why don't they fix the damn radar of Buenos Aires airport, leaving our air-traffic control with less duty?

And about GDP growing, discont the 26% of inflation and you get a stagnated country. Not I say that: IMF does.

Indeed, they make projections over Argentina GDP and other indexes, they don't use official fonts anymore.

We should not mess an amazing touristic destination like Buenos Aires really is with the capital of a decadent country that is not even able to print their currency bills... Brazil, again, is printing the argentine pesos since Argentina has no modern printer in Central Bank.

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>> Back on topic, one of the problems I see with Santiago as a Summer Olympics host is the climate

At some point, the IOC has find a way to be more flexible if they want to expand the host cities to new frontiers. Summer games in Feb for both the southern hemisphere and the Middle East; Winter games in August for southern hemisphere. Gonna be hard to deal with all the individual sports federations - though 7 years of warning should be enough. But the TV schedules should work.

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It would be something similar to the last World Cup in South Africa.

It can not be. Olympics and football World Cup are a different matter. Football is a sport that is often played in very cold weather especially in Europe. In fact, I would argue that the cool but dry conditions of South Africa were pretty ideal for this sport. Football is practically a winter sport. Summer Olympics however need sufficiently warm weather. If the IOC isn't flexible enough to stretch the time frame of the Games to at least September, then many of the potential southern hemisphere hosts are simply out of the question.

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>> Back on topic, one of the problems I see with Santiago as a Summer Olympics host is the climate

At some point, the IOC has find a way to be more flexible if they want to expand the host cities to new frontiers. Summer games in Feb for both the southern hemisphere and the Middle East; Winter games in August for southern hemisphere. Gonna be hard to deal with all the individual sports federations - though 7 years of warning should be enough. But the TV schedules should work.

But nobody ever said the IOC wanted to expand the host cities to new frontiers that are not the most suitable and put ages old schedules and traditions out of whack. What need is there to have a Winter Games in August in the Southern Hemisphere when 95% of winter athletes come from the Northern Hemisphere? What need is there to have Summer Games in the desert in February when most schedules and training is geared toward a July/August time frame?

I know everyone likes the ceremonies, the prestige, the exposure and the national pride of hosting the Olympics, but ultimately, the Olympics are about sport and sport is about athletes, so it is thus the responsibility of the IOC to find host locations that are first and foremost to the benefit of the athletes and the sports they compete in.

There are some very serious logistic issues to contemplate and it is only logical that not everywhere can host the Olympics. Finland has an excellent winter sport tradition (attended every Winter Games, 6th on the overall medal list, over 150 medals, and 41 golds) but the country barely has a mountain to speak of and will never host because they don't have an Alpine resort up to the job.

Each sport has requirements and so the IOC has a duty to meet those requirements. So it is the duty of any city, town, or country to fit those requirements. If they can't fit the requirements, there will be some other place that can.

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