What if Durban came back at the last minute...

[baron-pierreIV]

Will Madrid, Doha and Istanbul stay in?

I think Istanbul stays in. I think Madrid and Doha will bail out.

So, if Durban is in, I think only Durban, Istanbul and Rome will be left standing!!

[intoronto]

I believe Durban wins. There are published reports now Berlin wants to bid leaving the chance for vote splitting. However, I wouldn't vote for Durban personally.

[Rob2012]

Doha? When did they throw their hat in?

[emre]

common... everyone can be realistic that durban cant get it... force it as much as they can may be see the final but IOC wont give the games for city just bid for the first time and no reputation like Rome, Madrid or Istanbul in world.

but capetown... things can change that time;)

[baron-pierreIV]

common... everyone can be realistic that durban cant get it... force it as much as they can may be see the final but IOC wont give the games for city just bid for the first time and no reputation like Rome, Madrid or Istanbul in world.

but capetown... things can change that time;)

Then why were Rogge and his team exhorting Durban and RSA to throw their hat into the ring?

It is NOT an unknown city to the IOC, emre. They have just held their big pow-wow there.

Durban is the logical entry for RSA because: 1. it has the best weather of RSA's 3 major cities; (2) it already has an iconic Olympic stadium standing; (3) it has all that available land around the Moses stadium on which to add an Olympic Park and Olympic Village; (4) an Olympics will be the City's reason to push it up to a 1st tier city; (5) the African NOCs are behind its candidacy. They have said so.

If the IOC'ers realized the geo-political implications of the 2018 race, I am sure they are NOT blind to the strategic possibilities for Durban and its optimum implications for the IOC. But I am getting ahead of the thrust of this thread...

[emre]

if i was an IOC member i think like olympics is a trade mark, and try to get it higher value with a big name.

and even with that africa card Durban wont be my choice at the final. IMO as a PR manager. and tell me how many people know where is Durban in your neighbour hood? or bussines life?

just looking inanother point of view u know i want an african games as much as u. but durban :s dont know. an unknown city with nothing special for me.( except located in africa) again IMO.

i still insist on cape town:)

[Ace]

Doha? When did they throw their hat in?

They didn't throw their name in the hat not that I know of. They haven't made an official bid, it's just a potential bid but that's all that bid is going to have is "potential". It will go no where unless they buy it of course.

[Rob2012]

I suspect more people know of Durban than Pyeongchang.

[baron-pierreIV]

if i was an IOC member i think like olympics is a trade mark, and try to get it higher value with a big name.

and even with that africa card Durban wont be my choice at the final. IMO as a PR manager. and tell me how many people know where is Durban in your neighbour hood? or bussines life?

just looking inanother point of view u know i want an african games as much as u. but durban :s dont know. an unknown city with nothing special for me.( except located in africa) again IMO.

How many people KNEW of Antwerp before 1920? Chamonix in 1924? Lake Placid in 1932? Cortina in 1956? Lillehammer in 1994? Sochi in 3 years' time? PyeongYang this year and leading up to 2018?

No offense, emre, but if I had an unknown brand to market, you wouldn't be my first choice as my ad agency!

[emre]

How many people KNEW of Antwerp before 1920? Chamonix in 1924? Lake Placid in 1932? Cortina in 1956? Lillehammer in 1994? Sochi in 3 years' time? PyeongYang this year and leading up to 2018?

No offense, emre, but if I had an unknown brand to market, you wouldn't be my first choice as my ad agency!

i dont work with unknown brands and we talk about olympics which is the best known logo ever in the world also th most expensive one

and please reconsider the media and tv and others..means the cities after 90s

sochi is the summer riviera of russia many people in europe knows this:/ ( or close to us may be thats for we know)

and PC gets it at their 3rd attend. summer and winter games are different concepts dont mix them. to few cities with a high reputation can handle the winter games.

but if it pleases u i rather choose durban 2020 instead of rome or madrid.

but durban.. i dont know. but definetly they will mix all votes at the final voting and unexpected ones can be out of the race with that. may be 2024 for their times. IOC wants to push as much as cities as they can do to the games. they want to see what they can do first then they can honored the city at their second application. im a realistic person baron sorry...:/

[Ace]

i dont work with unknown brands and we talk about olympics which is the best known logo ever in the world also th most expensive one

and please reconsider the media and tv and others..means the cities after 90s

sochi is the summer riviera of russia many people in europe knows this:/ ( or close to us may be thats for we know)

and PC gets it at their 3rd attend. summer and winter games are different concepts dont mix them. to few cities with a high reputation can handle the winter games.

but if it pleases u i rather choose durban 2020 instead of rome or madrid.

but durban.. i dont know. but definetly they will mix all votes at the final voting and unexpected ones can be out of the race with that. may be 2024 for their times. IOC wants to push as much as cities as they can do to the games. they want to see what they can do first then they can honored the city at their second application. im a realistic person baron sorry...:/

Don't worry baron, he's just looking for some life in the instabul bid

[baron-pierreIV]

IOC wants to push as much as cities as they can do to the games. they want to see what they can do first then they can honored the city at their second application. im a realistic person baron sorry...:/

And what was the World Cup 2010? Chopped liver? Granted the Opening & Finals were NOT in Durban.

I've heard of Durban since I was teenager. I think Durban is very well known in the countries around the Indian Ocean.

Olympic 1st timers:

- Chicago/St. Louis 1904,

- Garmisch 1936,

- Melbourne 1956;

- Barcelona 1992;

- Seoul 1988;

- Atlanta 1996,

- Sochi 2014,

and I'm sure there will be a few more in the future. If it's the right FIRST time for a bidder, it IS the right time.

But THAT'S NOT the thrust of this thread, emre!!

[emre]

Don't worry baron, he's just looking for some life in the instabul bid

ahahah nice one

ok ok i will leave this thread to u baron before u kill me... and i said my opinion what i think about and what can be happen at the final.

(barcelona tried several times till get the games at 1992 )

[baron-pierreIV]

(barcelona tried several times till get the games at 1992 )

Only once before...for the '36 Games when it lost to Berlin. But first time after 50 years. So to me, that's almost like a NEW first time.

[Soaring]

Durban would really change the dynamics of the race IMO. I think the IOC would choose SA over Turkey in a race against each other. This wouldn't be South Africa's first time bidding, so I wouldn't necessarily say Durban was at too much of a disadvantage with it being their first bid and all. The main impact of that argument would be the IOC member's unfamiliarness with the city, but the majority of the IOC have a good impression of Durban since the election last week.

Cape Town made it to the 3rd round for the 2004 Games, while Turkey has never made it past the second, and never received more than 17 votes. In the second round of 2008 election, eight votes jumped ship from Instanbul's bid as well.

It would be interesting to see two viable new frontiers battle it out, but my bets would be on Durban.

[DannyelBrazil]

IOC wants to send the games to Africa as soon as a city in conditions appears.

Durban can be the one, emre.

Simple like that.

Unfortunatelly for Turkey, Durban kills the chances of Istanbul, IMO

I like your banner soaring. It got very nice! =]

[Triffle]

Durban's lack of a previous bid is irrelevant really; South Africa's successful hosting of the FIFA World Cup, which Durban was amajor part of, is certainly more advantageous than Istanbul having "experience" at bidding (unsuccessfully) 4 times.

[alphamale86]

I remember after Rio won everyone was like "South Africa will automatically get 2020 based off of being the last continent to host it." I remember not being onboard with that statement at all but I had to admit over the course since the 2016 announcement and especially after the Fifa 2018 and 2022 announcement that the new frontier argument was definitely still alive. So yeah I do believe it is South Africa's to lose at this point. However I think they are making quite a few mistakes in the run up.

The mere fact that they had the hole national bid city debacle where Cape town wasn't invited to put forth a bid and Durban was prematurely selected as the representative is the first signal of disorganization then you have the official announcement that we are not bidding to focus on internal issues which though disappointing is a valid and responsible reason and now you say well maybe it is still possible. If I was a member of the IOC i would be put off by all these events and go with something more stable.

Had they established themselves as a solid candidate from the start I would say that everyone else would have really thought twice about jumping in. Doha, after the voter buying scandal in fifa is on murky grounds so I think they are only going to bid if they know South Africa wont bid. Madrid, let's be real is not Pyeongchang. Pyeongchang is the little city that could. It's a small city with big dreams that tried and tried and tried and tried so yeah they get the vote on that sentiment. Madrid is a major city. It is a well known capital there won't be any sentimental underdogness to their bid and thus they will be treated like everyone else and in a year when the IOC really wouldn't like to go back to europe Rome would definitely be the better candidate.

So yeah if Durban were to jump in the race it would be all over and we would actually have the most boring biding season in recent memory however I am kind of hoping they don't so we have one of the more exciting Bidding seasons in recent history as there honestly wont be a clear cut favorite. No story lines. everyone will have an equal balance of pros and cons that would equal each other and most of all no one would have a stronger claim to it meaning "We've never hosted it or we haven't hosted it in x amount of years"

[mattperiolat]

How many people KNEW of Antwerp before 1920? Chamonix in 1924? Lake Placid in 1932? Cortina in 1956? Lillehammer in 1994? Sochi in 3 years' time? PyeongYang this year and leading up to 2018?

No offense, emre, but if I had an unknown brand to market, you wouldn't be my first choice as my ad agency!

Could have thrown Squaw Valley in 1960 and Albertville in 1992 to that list as well.

Yeah, CT would be the obvious choice if a SA city was to bid, but if it is to be Durban, there is no reason not to have a reasonable expectation for them to do well. If the IOC is serious about new frontiers, they would be the odds on favorite to win.

[Kenadian]

Sochi was not a first time bidder. They failed to make the short list for the 2002 Games.

Anyway, I don't think Durban has the might just yet to off any of the other cities bidding in this race. It is too early. And I'm not all together convinced that the IOC will keep buying the "New Frontiers" argument. But we'll just have to wait and see.

[Athensfan]

Whenever Durban bids they will be formidable opponents and they will dramatically alter the landscape of any race.

However, I don't know if any bids will "bail" as Baron suggested. It would seem that national pride would be on the line -- especially once the bid deadline passes.

[Gangwon]

I was originally going to agree with emre that South Africa should be putting Cape Town if they're serious about bidding. It's way better known, and the country should be offering their best. And you can't compare Summer to Winter Games when talking about the international recognition of a place. It's the norm in Winter Games to have them hosted in smaller, more obscure places, but the Summer Games have should be in more marquee cities of the world (though Barcelona worked out quite well).

But then I saw the climates of Cape Town and Durban, and I see that Durban would be the better choice of the two for athletes and visitors alike. So yeah, seems Durban is the way to go for South Africa.

That said, I'm not convinced that all they need to do to win is apply. The whole "new frontiers" argument isn't always going to work, and the last thing I want is for a city to feel like they're entitled to win just because they happen to be the select choice of a Olympic-virgin continent. Durban isn't my first choice, but I wouldn't mind them. But make them work for it.

[cjs2]

Can anyone tell me why Joburg or maybe Pretoria never come up as SA candidates? I know Durban is likely to be put forward for many reasons, but why is Cape Town the only city mentioned as an alternative.

Johannesburg is the real "marquee, world city" of South Africa...even if it's not its prettiest or safest.

[Rafa]

I think Durban would be a great candidate.

My issue remains, whether its Cape Town or Durban. Nobody appears to have come to grips with the Games requirements, and there has been no public or behind the scenes, from what I have seen, understanding of the real cost and requirements for the host city.

If we are to trust articles, and to some extent informal discussion I have had, the fleeting reference to the Olympic bid process, and onerous IOC demands (well beyond FIFA in many regards) is a major concern for me.

I'd like to start getting serious about the Durban bid, in particular the technical aspects, a hotel room shortage of 33,500 from the minimum 40,000 mark, no formal airport to city transport link, congestion around "Olympic precinct"....etc. etc.

The pro's are all there (and amazing if all comes together) but it must worked into a solid proposal beyond the "we have archery fields" and a "velodrome" (entirely new one needed) track. Even the Aquatic Centre requires major works just to host water polo.

If we don't start looking at this, the Working Group in the applicant phase will, and will be less kind. This isn't just an "accommodation" or "transport" discussion, and I'm not implying that there are no solutions but we must start addressing these things and be very frank.

Cape Town "shortlisted" in 1997 with a solid technical proposal, which would not have made a 2012 shortlist, regardless of the respect I have for the full candidature which put together a miracle bid during the city's infancy.

My real concern? Not Durban being able to win, but Durban not making the candidate phase.

Rome (ignoring the major economic crisis which may loom) actually went through a proper and thorough domestic bid process, candidature file and all.

Durban, was not able to benefit from a proper domestic bid process, because it was and is a farce. The real loser in that circus was not Cape Town but Durban i.e. the opportunity to have a full look through all the strengths and weaknesses in a public arena, and relative to the IOC requirements.

[Sir Rols]

Can anyone tell me why Joburg or maybe Pretoria never come up as SA candidates? I know Durban is likely to be put forward for many reasons, but why is Cape Town the only city mentioned as an alternative.

Altitude.