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Which city will have the best bid overall?


intoronto

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Less the universal praise? Rogge called it terrific, and some media outlets called it the best games ever. Major Sports power? :lol: Canada just owned the winter games last year and wants to finish in the top 12 next year (more then 26 medals) and thats not a power?

Rogge extravagantly praises everything Olympic so I don't give his opinion much weight.

Many regarded the Vancouver Games as ok, not great. Just look at the thread where people rank their favorite Winter Games. Vancouver is well down on many of the lists. I don't want to debate the quality of the Vancouver Games, I'm just talking about PERCEPTION. The perception is divided. Some thought the Games were great. Some were less impressed. This is true of the media as well. Those who were less inspired will probably be less likely to jump at a Toronto bid.

As for Team Canada's performance -- it was inspiring in Vancouver. I made a typo in my last post. I should have said that Canada is not a strong Summer sports nation -- which is true and would also impact a Toronto bid.

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I don't question Toronto's capability and they may well bid. I still don't think the timing is in their favor.

Yeah, I understand your point of view however, I don't think it will be affected that negatively. I'm surprised to say this but Toronto would be the most safest and financially secure bid out of the bunch.

Berlin should jump into the race. Germany would be the most sound economically out of any European country.

Toronto's mayor is hosting an all day (literally 7am until its finished its still going at 10:53pm) and proposed budget cuts to tame a $775 million dollar shortfall. So basically he has no time to sign of on a bid.

I'd think there is time to sign off considering a September deadline and the high probability of discussions and meetings that were ongoing throughout the year in regards to this matter.

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I really can't understand the argument against Toronto is that it's only 10 years after Vancouver; Salt Lake City hosted the 2002 Winter Olympics only six years after Atlanta hosted the 1996 Summer Olympics. And something even more important is that Salt Lake City bid before Atlanta even finished they're Olympics.

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Canada wins its fair share of medals at the summer Olympics (not to say its a summer power). In fact it beat Brazil at the 2008 Games which we know will host the 2016 Games.

In 2012 the COC wants 23-26 medals and a top 12 finish there goal was a top 16 in 2008. So in 2016 they possibly will look for a top 8 to 10 finish.

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I really can't understand the argument against Toronto is that it's only 10 years after Vancouver; Salt Lake City hosted the 2002 Winter Olympics only six years after Atlanta hosted the 1996 Summer Olympics. And something even more important is that Salt Lake City bid before Atlanta even finished they're Olympics.

Well people say its the global power the USA has.

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Seriously, the FAR majority of people that give Toronto so much credence here are Canadians. Toronto had the "best technical bid of the bunch" for 2008 & that got them nowhere. They were also the "safest option" of the lot (along with Paris), but that still didn't matter, either.

Again, I've asked before, but never get a COMPELLING argument as to why a nation of less than 35 million people, that's already hosted 3 Olympic Games in only 34 years (the only other nation to do this was France during the turn of the 20th century, with the help of Baron Pierre de Courtebin, French founder of the Modern Olympic Movement), should get yet a FOURTH Olympic Games in such a short time span. If Vancouver 2010 wasn't on the Canadian Olympic roster, then I would say that there could be a good probability, but that's not the case.

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What is the compelling arguments for Spain or Italy?

Tokyo is definitely going to use a sympathy card based on the earthquakes and tsunamis.

Istanbul is gonna use the first muslim games at the crossroads between Europe and Asia.

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I don't think Spain has one, either. I don't give them much credit.

But again, Italy is a major sports power at the Summer Olympics, & has the most IOC members than any other NOC, other than Switzerland. They have clout. And Europe is where 2020 is most likely going anyway.

But in any case, with the 4 that are one the 2020 table thus far, I'd hold them with much more regard versus with a much smaller nation that's already hosted 3 times & last time as recent as last year.

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I don't think Spain has one, either. I don't give them much credit.

But again, Italy is a major sports power at the Summer Olympics, & has the most IOC members than any other NOC, other than Switzerland. They have clout. And Europe is where 2020 is most likely going anyway.

But in any case, with the 4 that are one the 2020 table thus far, I'd hold them with much more regard versus with a much smaller nation that's already hosted 3 times & last time as recent as last year.

Having more IOC members and performing better at a Summer Olympics are compelling enough arguments? Is this what Rome will stress during its bid? lol I just don't see any of the bids having as much a compelling argument that Pyeongchang, Rio or Beijing had for example, in their wins for their respective games.

Like I said previously, 2020 is wide open!

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I did NOT say that's what Rome would stress in their bid. Why are you taking it out of context.

And of course Rome or Berlin or whomever wouldn't have as much as a compelling argument like Beijing, Rio or PyeongChang had. But guess what? They're NOT bidding for 2020. So that does make the race "wide open". For Europe, that is!

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I did NOT say that's what Rome would stress in their bid. Why are you taking it out of context.

And of course Rome or Berlin or whomever wouldn't have as much as a compelling argument like Beijing, Rio or PyeongChang had. But guess what? They're NOT bidding for 2020. So that does make the race "wide open". For Europe, that is!

You said "compelling argument". This is something that the city would use to convince the IOC to vote for them over their rivals. What is Rome's compelling argument that they should be rewarded the 2020 games?

And yes, there is no city in this race that have strong "compelling arguments" as previous bid winners such as the ones I listed before. And it's not a one continent race for 2020 if voters have a 2nd option.

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Like I said previously, 2020 is wide open!

2020 is not wide open. A European city will win. PC's victory further solidifies IOC sentiment, and now that Durban will likely bid in 2024, the IOC will feel compelled to choose a European city in order to get their turn in before Africa or Asia again. Tokyo will certainly get some sympathy votes, and Istanbul will get new frontier votes, but it is not a wide open race - at least from what I can tell at this point.

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You said "compelling argument". This is something that the city would use to convince the IOC to vote for them over their rivals. What is Rome's compelling argument that they should be rewarded the 2020 games?

That is correct. Because Canada would have to do the most convincing in this area over the Italians, Germans or any other European bidder. And even Tokyo.

Just because Rome doesn't appear to have enough of an argument, doesn't mean that their case would be the last of the lot. It's all relative.

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Seriously, the FAR majority of people that give Toronto so much credence here are Canadians. Toronto had the "best technical bid of the bunch" for 2008 & that got them nowhere. They were also the "safest option" of the lot (along with Paris), but that still didn't matter, either.

Again, I've asked before, but never get a COMPELLING argument as to why a nation of less than 35 million people, that's already hosted 3 Olympic Games in only 34 years (the only other nation to do this was France during the turn of the 20th century, with the help of Baron Pierre de Courtebin, French founder of the Modern Olympic Movement), should get yet a FOURTH Olympic Games in such a short time span. If Vancouver 2010 wasn't on the Canadian Olympic roster, then I would say that there could be a good probability, but that's not the case.

This. It's not just that Canada is coming right off Vancouver, it's that they've had Montreal and Calgary in the time that the other competitors have each had, at most, 1 Olympics. Torino doesn't work against Rome the same way that Vancouver works against Toronto because it will have been 60 years since Italy's last summer Olympics. Just like Barcelona works against Madrid. It's not like we haven't seen Toronto against the field, once finishing a distant second to Beijing and the other finishing 3rd behind Atlanta. Be careful when using past history as a precedent and remember who these guys voting are. The United States has had 4 Olympics in less than a quarter century. Earned or not, there's a reason that happened. Is it maybe a bit much to give Canada their 4th Olympics in a generation? The Euro-centric IOC isn't going to want to miss out on this cycle and have to potentially take their chances up against a South Africa bid for 2024. If nothing else, that's the trump card any European city would hold over Toronto, even if they manage to have the best technical bid.

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Seriously, the FAR majority of people that give Toronto so much credence here are Canadians. Toronto had the "best technical bid of the bunch" for 2008 & that got them nowhere. They were also the "safest option" of the lot (along with Paris), but that still didn't matter, either.

Again, I've asked before, but never get a COMPELLING argument as to why a nation of less than 35 million people, that's already hosted 3 Olympic Games in only 34 years (the only other nation to do this was France during the turn of the 20th century, with the help of Baron Pierre de Courtebin, French founder of the Modern Olympic Movement), should get yet a FOURTH Olympic Games in such a short time span. If Vancouver 2010 wasn't on the Canadian Olympic roster, then I would say that there could be a good probability, but that's not the case.

The IOC was not about to reject a superpower in China. Toronto in a way is a new frontier that great lakes cluster is one of the four most populated in the world and has staged only one summer games which would be a,most 50 years before in 2020. Rome and Tokyo have hosted before and if its in the IOC's interest to award to new areas Toronto is new as its never staged the games.

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The IOC was not about to reject a superpower in China. Toronto in a way is a new frontier that great lakes cluster is one of the four most populated in the world and has staged only one summer games which would be a,most 50 years before in 2020. Rome and Tokyo have hosted before and if its in the IOC's interest to award to new areas Toronto is new as its never staged the games.

Well, gee. All those arguments could've been used for Chicago, too. The biggest Metropoliss in the Great Lakes Region that's never hosted the Games before, in a large region of the world that's only hosted the Games once before. Tokyo, a previous host, was also bidding for 2016.

Really, you're just splitting hairs now. You think any of those trivial points really matter to those fastidious, old fogies over in Lausaunne? :huh::lol:

And if the IOC was not about to reject a superpower like China, then why did Toronto even bother with bidding for 2008 to begin with? Hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it.

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Well, gee. All those arguments could've been used for Chicago, too. The biggest Metropoliss in the Great Lakes Region that's never hosted the Games before, in a large region of the world that's only hosted the Games once before. Tokyo, a previous host, was also bidding for 2016.

Really, you're just splitting hairs now. You think any of those trivial points really matter to those fastidious, old fogies over in Lausaunne? :huh::lol:

And if the IOC was not about to reject a superpower like China, then why did Toronto even bother with bidding for 2008 to begin with? Hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it.

Because the race was wide open at the point of bidding.

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Major Sports power? :lol: Canada just owned the winter games last year and wants to finish in the top 12 next year (more then 26 medals) and thats not a power?

Winter Olympic performances are totally irrelevant for a Summer Olympic bid. And BIG DEAL if they're aiming for top 12; heck, Nigeria probably want to finish top 12 but that doent make them a sporting power! And even if they do finish top 12 next year, ONE solid Olympics hardly translates to a country being recognised as a sporting power; sustained performances constitutes a country being recognised as a sporting power.

Canada have not finished inside the Top 10 on the medal tally since LA 1984; where the medal tally was obviously compromised by the Soviet-led boycott. Since then, Canada has placed 19th, 11th, 21st, 24th, 21st and 19th; and won a paltry three gold medals at the last FOUR Olympics. Remarkably for a developed nation of its size, Canada has only ever won more than 4 gold medals at just TWO Olympic Games (1984, 1992) and didnt win a single gold at the 1976 Montreal Olympics (the only Summer host EVER to fail to win a single gold). Canada have won just 58 gold and place 20th on the all-time medal tally. there is absolutely no doubt that Canada is not a sporting power.

Canada wins its fair share of medals at the summer Olympics (not to say its a summer power). In fact it beat Brazil at the 2008 Games which we know will host the 2016 Games.

As i previously noted, Canada has a dismal Olympic record; considering the country's wealth, population and the number of games its participated in. Canada and Brazil won the same number of gold and just three more medals so hardly a drubbing. And its an irrelavent point anyway; Brazil is a new frontier, so the IOC would be counting on future growth of sport and the Olympic brand in the country. Canada would be attempting to host a second Summer Olympic Games within a relatively short period of time; so performances must play A role in determining whether a previous host country deserves to host once more ahead of other previous host. And before you mention Greece, Athens is clearly an exceptional situation.

In 2012 the COC wants 23-26 medals and a top 12 finish there goal was a top 16 in 2008. So in 2016 they possibly will look for a top 8 to 10 finish.

So 2008 was another failure failing 19th. And they actually have to achieve a top 10 performance rather than just "aiming" for Canada to have the aura of a successful sporting nation.

*falling

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So 2008 was another failure failing 19th. And they actually have to achieve a top 10 performance rather than just "aiming" for Canada to have the aura of a successful sporting nation.

*falling

**In terms of overall medals not just gold medals.

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Yeah. I just don't see Toronto happening soon. Vancouver. Rio. USA aspirations/IOC need to play ball w/ USA sometime soon. Lack of summer sports strength. I think that does it.

All though Vancouver is the elephant is the room, Toronto is on its way to hosting a successful Pan American Games like Rio, which could only help its chances.

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I'm still betting that Toronto is really going to win 2020; mainly because they have had experience after two failed attempts within 24 years, our dollar is strong compared to the rest of the world, the 2015 Pan AM games will certainly help us improve our experience in handling big summer sports events. And I certainly doubt that the U.S. would be much of a hindrance; with they're economy in the tank at this point and the people wanting to seriously cut the spending big time. I just don't see them hosting the games till at least 2028. And that's if they can fix they're toxic political system where compromise is essentially a death sentence, even if it will help fix the country.

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All though Vancouver is the elephant is the room, Toronto is on its way to hosting a successful Pan American Games like Rio, which could only help its chances.

EXCEPT Brazil, with OVER 180,000,000 people (like # 5, 6 or 7 in the world, and representing one of the 2 "unplayed" continents) has NEVER HOSTED an Olympic Games. You, Canada, for a country of 30 million, have already hosted 3 Olympics.

As I said, if the CBC or (whatever network there now broadcasts the Olympics, trumps what the USA pays for its coverage, then I'll believe that your Toronto has a shot in the next 15 years. But please, u're puffing up Toronto's immediate chances too soon. Also, Brazil's PanAms were exactly the MODEL of streamlined games. There were major problems but the IOC was willing to give them a pass.

I'm still betting that Toronto is really going to win 2020; mainly because they have had experience after two failed attempts within 24 years, our dollar is strong compared to the rest of the world, the 2015 Pan AM games will certainly help us improve our experience in handling big summer sports events. And I certainly doubt that the U.S. would be much of a hindrance; with they're economy in the tank at this point and the people wanting to seriously cut the spending big time. I just don't see them hosting the games till at least 2028. And that's if they can fix they're toxic political system where compromise is essentially a death sentence, even if it will help fix the country.

:rolleyes: Whistling in the wind.

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