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Which city will have the best bid overall?


intoronto

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If Toronto adds its name its number one for sure as all venues would be within Toronto's boundaries except two football venues

There's more to the technical components of a bid than venue location. Certainly that will be one of Toronto's strong points though.

Truthfully, I don't expect Toronto to bid a mere 10 years after Vancouver.

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There's more to the technical components of a bid than venue location. Certainly that will be one of Toronto's strong points though.

Truthfully, I don't expect Toronto to bid a mere 10 years after Vancouver.

Me neither but it would be three bids and no wins and at the fourth bid maybe they would be the favourite.

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Me neither but it would be three bids and no wins and at the fourth bid maybe they would be the favourite.

If they bid they definitely would not be the favorite. The timing is off. Vancouver is a huge strike against a Toronto bid. Rio is as well, but to a much lesser extent.

I don't doubt that Toronto could stage great Summer Games, but I don't see it happening soon.

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I suspect like most of the people here that Madrid & Tokyo bid will be superior to Istanbul & Rome.

Not that much superior of course, nothing that will prevent a Rome victory but recent previous bidding (& the japanese organisation) will help bith cities to produce the best bid.

And i don't think Rome 2004 will help the italians that much, i mean IOC has changed so much, the people & the way of seeing things in the 2012 & 2016 race that a bid made 15 years ago won't help that much.

But can anybody answer that for me, how come the italians didn't bid for 2012? I mean we all knew it was Europe to loose and they showed interest the last time Europe had a big shot so why didn't they go for it?

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Me neither but it would be three bids and no wins and at the fourth bid maybe they would be the favourite.

If they bid they definitely would not be the favorite. The timing is off. Vancouver is a huge strike against a Toronto bid. Rio is as well, but to a much lesser extent.

I don't doubt that Toronto could stage great Summer Games, but I don't see it happening soon.

Toronto has only bid twice, and if they bid for 2020 I don't expect a win so that would be three. When they decide to bid next (2032?) I can see Toronto as the favourite.

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But can anybody answer that for me, how come the italians didn't bid for 2012? I mean we all knew it was Europe to loose and they showed interest the last time Europe had a big shot so why didn't they go for it?

Because coming RIGHT after the 2012 vote (in 2005) were the Games of Torino 2006!! Would the IOC REALLY vote for TWO CONSECUTIVE Italian entries to happen? :blink: Maybe in Cortina 1956 and Rome 1960...and maybe if they got the College of Cardinals to also vote; but those days are long over. So, of course, CONI knew it would be idiotic to enter a 2012 candidate.

Toronto has only bid twice, and if they bid for 2020 I don't expect a win so that would be three. When they decide to bid next (2032?) I can see Toronto as the favourite.

R u Korean? Hold your horses, int. U seem to want to bid on anything that moves. :blink:

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R u Korean? Hold your horses, int. U seem to want to bid on anything that moves. :blink:

No I am not Korean, I am Canadian. :lol::blink:

In case you didn't read why I wrote Toronto should bid, its because the more bids you put it the better chance you have to win. (Rio, Sochi, Pyeongchang). So when Toronto bids in 2032 (2024 RSA, 2028 Tokyo) it sets its self up as a favourite.

I am thinking you are concerned that Toronto will win and ruin Reno's chances, I am thinking you and maybe a couple of other people would pick Reno over Toronto, but the decision is obvious Toronto any day :lol: .

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In case you didn't read why I wrote Toronto should bid, its because the more bids you put it the better chance you have to win. (Rio, Sochi, Pyeongchang). So when Toronto bids in 2032 (2024 RSA, 2028 Tokyo) it sets its self up as a favourite.

Every losing bid puts a sour taste in the mouths of Torontonians. This isn't Pyeongchang where 92% of Koreans were in favour of a 3rd consecutive bid. Their 2018 bid was one of national priority. A Toronto bid has enough trouble gaining support from its own people, much less from the rest of its fellow countrymen. Toronto can't afford to bid for the sake of hoping that it sets them up better for another bid down the road (much less one that's 12 years down the road <2020-2032>), because their people will not stand for it. Toronto needs to strike while the iron is hot, when they think they have a REAL chance at winning. But if the COC thinks that time is 2020, and they know better than me, so be it and I'll support them.

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Every losing bid puts a sour taste in the mouths of Torontonians. This isn't Pyeongchang where 92% of Koreans were in favour of a 3rd consecutive bid. Their 2018 bid was one of national priority. A Toronto bid has enough trouble gaining support from its own people, much less from the rest of its fellow countrymen. Toronto can't afford to bid for the sake of hoping that it sets them up better for another bid down the road (much less one that's 12 years down the road <2020-2032>), because their people will not stand for it. Toronto needs to strike while the iron is hot, when they think they have a REAL chance at winning. But if the COC thinks that time is 2020, and they know better than me, so be it and I'll support them.

I think Toronto if they bid for 2020 will have a support level of around the low 70's

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I think Toronto if they bid for 2020 will have a support level of around the low 70's

Possibly. My point is more that Toronto should bid if they think they have a shot at winning, not if it's just to lose and set themselves up for another bid later on. We already have a lot going for us (infrastructure, Pan Ams, bidding experience) that we don't really need a dry-run.

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Possibly. My point is more that Toronto should bid if they think they have a shot at winning, not if it's just to lose and set themselves up for another bid later on. We already have a lot going for us (infrastructure, Pan Ams, bidding experience) that we don't really need a dry-run.

I agree with you. Toronto doesn't need a dry run and that's what 2020 would be for them.

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Toronto needs to strike while the iron is hot, when they think they have a REAL chance at winning. But if the COC thinks that time is 2020, and they know better than me, so be it and I'll support them.

Seriously, the COC is "thinking" about this? :blink:

Have they not taken notice the trend the IOC is on nowadays? Did they not take notice hat the IOC literally pole-vaulted over great bids from Chicago & Munich in order to dash over to Rio & PyeongChang? And the last time Toronto bid, too, the IOC was in such a hurry to race to Beijing. And all of this is not even factoring in Vancouver 2010.

Seriously, why would the IOC choose to award a nation of under 35 million people yet a FOURTH Olympic Games in only 44 years time? What's the compelling argument for this? Again, the Olympic Games are what the host city can do for the Olympic Movement, & NOT what the Olympic Games could do for the host city. And I don't see a compelling side to this whatsoever.

Not to mention Rio 2016 is already in the Americas'. Don't see that Eurocentric bunch over in Lausaunne to be running back to this side of the planet so soon anyway.

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Seriously, the COC is "thinking" about this? :blink:

Have they not taken notice the trend the IOC is on nowadays? Did they not take notice hat the IOC literally pole-vaulted over great bids from Chicago & Munich in order to dash over to Rio & PyeongChang? And the last time Toronto bid, too, the IOC was in such a hurry to race to Beijing. And all of this is not even factoring in Vancouver 2010.

Seriously, why would the IOC choose to award a nation of under 35 million people yet a FOURTH Olympic Games in only 44 years time? What's the compelling argument for this? Again, the Olympic Games are what the host city can do for the Olympic Movement, & NOT what the Olympic Games could do for the host city. And I don't see a compelling side to this whatsoever.

Not to mention Rio 2016 is already in the Americas'. Don't see that Eurocentric bunch over in Lausaunne to be running back to this side of the planet so soon anyway.

Is the COC thinking about this? I don't know, I'm not in the loop. Someone here mentioned a month ago that there were discussions, but what do I really know?

I've said it before that 2020 isn't the most ideal time to bid, but you only need to look at the competition to see that 2020 is really anyone's game. Rome would suffer any handicap Toronto would (Turin/Vancouver). Madrid has to deal with 1992, and a Summer Games at that. Tokyo has Pyeongchang to deal with. And Istanbul is a wildcard, and just how many consecutive times can the IOC go to a "new" place anyway? But in the end, someone has to win. I never expected Toronto to bid for 2020, but if they do, it wouldn't be the worst thing.

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Seriously, the COC is "thinking" about this? :blink:

Have they not taken notice the trend the IOC is on nowadays? Did they not take notice hat the IOC literally pole-vaulted over great bids from Chicago & Munich in order to dash over to Rio & PyeongChang? And the last time Toronto bid, too, the IOC was in such a hurry to race to Beijing. And all of this is not even factoring in Vancouver 2010.

Seriously, why would the IOC choose to award a nation of under 35 million people yet a FOURTH Olympic Games in only 44 years time? What's the compelling argument for this? Again, the Olympic Games are what the host city can do for the Olympic Movement, & NOT what the Olympic Games could do for the host city. And I don't see a compelling side to this whatsoever.

Not to mention Rio 2016 is already in the Americas'. Don't see that Eurocentric bunch over in Lausaunne to be running back to this side of the planet so soon anyway.

I agree but it would be fun to see a Toronto bid for 2020.

Anyways they went to Rio, because the USA pissed of the IOC, Canada on the hand Rogge said hosted a terrific Winter Games. Pyeonchang actually had a better bid then Munich that is why they won. The only compelling argument I can see is Toronto playing the multicultural part (over 40% are born outside of Canada/every country in the Olympics is represented in Toronto) and the face Toronto has lost twice before., but would that work?

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I've said it before that 2020 isn't the most ideal time to bid, but you only need to look at the competition to see that 2020 is really anyone's game. Rome would suffer any handicap Toronto would (Turin/Vancouver).

This is always such a black-&-white comparison, though. Italy is a greater prowess at the Summer Games than Canada. Italy, along with Switzerland, has the most IOC members than any other NOC. Italy has almost twice the population than Canada does. And Italy's last Summer hosting was 1960 versus 1976. Apples & oranges, really.

2020 looks very much like 2012 did, "destined" for Europe, & surely that was part of PyeongChang's overwhelming victory earlier in the month, to handicap any great threat to this, i.e. Tokyo.

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This is always such a black-&-white comparison, though. Italy is a greater prowess at the Summer Games than Canada. Italy, along with Switzerland, has the most IOC members than any other NOC. Italy has almost twice the population than Canada does. And Italy's last Summer hosting was 1960 versus 1976. Apples & oranges, really.

2020 looks very much like 2012 did, "destined" for Europe, & surely that was part of PyeongChang's overwhelming victory earlier in the month, to handicap any great threat to this, i.e. Tokyo.

Off course there is the financial crisis to deal with. :lol:

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Pyeonchang actually had a better bid then Munich that is why they won. The only compelling argument I can see is Toronto playing the multicultural part (over 40% are born outside of Canada/every country in the Olympics is represented in Toronto) and the face Toronto has lost twice before., but would that work?

Not according to all the Munich supporters. They would argue that vigurously, & that is why "best bid" is always subjective.

And Chicago used the "multicultural" card too. And what did that get them. Toronto also used it already, too for 2008, & got them nowhere. So do they really want to try that angle again. I thhink the "multicultural" aspect is over-rated anyway. It doesn't win you a bid all by itself. Same with repeat bids. Just go ask Detroit, Ostersund & Istanbul how their mulitple losing bids worked out for them.

Off course there is the financial crisis to deal with. :lol:

So that's how you would want a Toronto bid to win, by default? Because Europe is in a potential financial basketcase, rather than winning on merit? That's not how I want the U.S. to "win" again.

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Not according to all the Munich supporters. They would argue that vigurously, & that is why "best bid" is always subjective.

And Chicago used the "multicultural" card too. And what did that get them. Toronto also used it already, too for 2008, & got them nowhere. So do they really want to try that angle again. I thhink the "multicultural" aspect is over-rated anyway. It doesn't win you a bid all by itself. Same with repeat bids. Just go ask Detroit, Ostersund & Istanbul how their mulitple losing bids worked out for them.

There really is no comparison between Detroit, Ostersund, Istanbul and Toronto

Two are not even in the same league as Toronto and Istanbul is close but not there yet. I believe what Toronto stressed in 2008 was the compactness of their venues but over at the Toronto thread I proposed a much more compact venue plan so maybe.

What I believe is the strongest plan must include is the compactness of venues and Munich was going up against a city that had better compactness and bid three times.

Chicago I thought was the favourite to win but they didn't because of the IOC's view of the USA.

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Detroit, when they bid back in the 50's & 60's WAS in the "league". It was a happening town that had everything going for it. So relatively speaking, there is comparison. Same with Ostersund since they were bidding for the WINTER Olympics. At the time, that was a grade-A "Winter" bid. And Istanbul is just exotic. You can't tell me that it isn't, regardless of it's global standing.

And "compactness" is also another one that seems to be too over-rated. Rio was the most SPREAD out bid of the 4 for 2016. But yet that's what the IOC chose. And PyeongChang's compactness is NOT what "solely" won them the Games. That aspect of their bid just happened to be icing on the cake. They most likely still would've won if it was a bit more spread out, like Rio did.

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Detroit, when they bid back in the 50's & 60's WAS in the "league". It was a happening town that had everything going for it. So relatively speaking, there is comparison. Same with Ostersund since they were bidding for the WINTER Olympics. At the time, that was a grade-A "Winter" bid. And Istanbul is just exotic. You can't tell me that it isn't, regardless of it's global standing.

And "compactness" is also another one that seems to be too over-rated. Rio was the most SPREAD out bid of the 4 for 2016. But yet that's what the IOC chose. And PyeongChang's compactness is NOT what "solely" won them the Games. That aspect of their bid just happened to be icing on the cake. They most likely still would've won if it was a bit more spread out, like Rio did.

All venues were however in Rio unlike the other bids. (minus soccer off course)

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All the venues were not in Beijing. And not all of them are going to be in PyeongChang, either. Like PyengChang's compactness, Rio's venues all in the City just happen to be the icing on the cake, & not "solely" what won the Games.

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No I am not Korean, I am Canadian. :lol::blink:

In case you didn't read why I wrote Toronto should bid, its because the more bids you put it the better chance you have to win. (Rio, Sochi, Pyeongchang). So when Toronto bids in 2032 (2024 RSA, 2028 Tokyo) it sets its self up as a favourite.

I am thinking you are concerned that Toronto will win and ruin Reno's chances, I am thinking you and maybe a couple of other people would pick Reno over Toronto, but the decision is obvious Toronto any day :lol: .

I've kinda glazed over most of your posts and you're trying to position Toronto on the smallest possible excuse. I understand your Olympic testosterone is raging. But you JUST HOSTED a Winter Games; you're 1/10th the size of the U.S.; Toronto is already getting the 2015 PanAms, so you're just NOT going to get the Summers until at least in the mid-30s and/or the Canadian networks offer to pay MORE than the U.S. networks for TV rights.

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