intoronto Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I've kinda glazed over most of your posts and you're trying to position Toronto on the smallest possible excuse. I understand your Olympic testosterone is raging. But you JUST HOSTED a Winter Games; you're 1/10th the size of the U.S.; Toronto is already getting the 2015 PanAms, so you're just NOT going to get the Summers until at least in the mid-30s and/or the Canadian networks offer to pay MORE than the U.S. networks for TV rights. I am from Toronto so naturally I want see my city bid and eventually win. Just like you and Reno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I am from Toronto so naturally I want see my city bid and eventually win. Just like you and Reno. I understand that. But I am NOT from Reno. And realistically, I am backing Reno (or that ditsy, floozy Denver) because a winter slot for a U.S. bid is coming up and MORE likely to be probable than either U.S./Canadian summer bid(s) in the next 3 summer rounds at least. Your positioning Toronto so soon AFTER Vancouver and after 2 very strong U.S. summer losses, is quite premature. The NYC and Chicago losses are "credit points" that the U.S. earns for its next possible Summer bid, whereas Toronto's last loss for 2008, was salved by a victory for 2010. So the Canadian "credit box" is at "0" for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted July 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I understand that. But I am NOT from Reno. And realistically, I am backing Reno (or that ditsy, floozy Denver) because a winter slot for a U.S. bid is coming up and MORE likely to be probable than either U.S./Canadian summer bid(s) in the next 3 summer rounds at least. Your positioning Toronto so soon AFTER Vancouver and after 2 very strong U.S. summer losses, is quite premature. The NYC and Chicago losses are "credit points" that the U.S. earns for its next possible Summer bid, whereas Toronto's last loss for 2008, was salved by a victory for 2010. So the Canadian "credit box" is at "0" for now. So why Reno then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 So why Reno then? Because it's NOT Denver!! j/k. Because it's somewhat close to me; and I know people on its team. And Tahoe is just something the world MUST see on their giant flat-screen, 3-D, BluRay TVs...which were not showcased properly the first time in 1960. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 I understand that. But I am NOT from Reno. And realistically, I am backing Reno (or that ditsy, floozy Denver) because a winter slot for a U.S. bid is coming up and MORE likely to be probable than either U.S./Canadian summer bid(s) in the next 3 summer rounds at least. Your positioning Toronto so soon AFTER Vancouver and after 2 very strong U.S. summer losses, is quite premature. The NYC and Chicago losses are "credit points" that the U.S. earns for its next possible Summer bid, whereas Toronto's last loss for 2008, was salved by a victory for 2010. So the Canadian "credit box" is at "0" for now. Not to stray too far off topic here, but New York was a very strong loss? Obviously there's the aspect of the bid that fell apart in the final month, so who knows what would have happened if the West Side Stadium deal hadn't collapsed, but I don't take too many positives from that loss except that it maybe got Chicago a little more knowledge about how to handle 2016, although we know how that turned out. Totally agree about your assessment on Canada, but I think all that New York and Chicago did was to scare away 2 big cities from wanting to bid again anytime in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Not to stray too far off topic here, but New York was a very strong loss? Obviously there's the aspect of the bid that fell apart in the final month, so who knows what would have happened if the West Side Stadium deal hadn't collapsed, but I don't take too many positives from that loss except that it maybe got Chicago a little more knowledge about how to handle 2016, although we know how that turned out. Totally agree about your assessment on Canada, but I think all that New York and Chicago did was to scare away 2 big cities from wanting to bid again anytime in the near future. Oyy! Maybe it's just nuances of how we see it; but I just say 'strong losses' in that these were 2 of the 3 US' premier cities offered to them. How they were conducted, behind-the-scene friction, clash of styles, whatever, etc., that's an entire different plate. The point is, both went down early and ignominiuosly...however else you want to look at it. Pls. stop being so pedantic sometimes, Quake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Oyy! Maybe it's just nuances of how we see it; but I just say 'strong losses' in that these were 2 of the 3 US' premier cities offered to them. How they were conducted, behind-the-scene friction, clash of styles, whatever, etc., that's an entire different plate. The point is, both went down early and ignominiuosly...however else you want to look at it. Pls. stop being so pedantic sometimes, Quake. Sorry baron, didn't mean to make you yell at me to get off your lawn. You don't have to get all in a huff every time we have a disagreement on the semantics of something, often as that seems to happen for whatever reason. And with all due repsect though.. you're not exactly the person here that should be making an issue of how someone else's posts are interpreted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Sorry baron, didn't mean to make you yell at me to get off your lawn. You don't have to get all in a huff every time we have a disagreement on the semantics of something, often as that seems to happen for whatever reason. And with all due repsect though.. you're not exactly the person here that should be making an issue of how someone else's posts are interpreted. GB Premium Member rule: Do as I/we say; not as we do. Why should we be any different from FIFA and the IOC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 GB Premium Member rule: Do as I/we say; not as we do. Your time is up Premium Members. This is the era of new horizons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Your time is up Premium Members. This is the era of new horizons. Your parking and cafeteria privileges will be suspended, young 'un. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 GB Premium Member rule: Do as I/we say; not as we do. Why should we be any different from FIFA and the IOC? Because we're not a group of corrupt self-interested individuals who have no ability to think beyond our egos and make an intelligent decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Because we're not a group of corrupt self-interested individuals who have no ability to think beyond our egos and make an intelligent decision? Oh Quaker, you take every statement too seriously and literally. I make many off-the-cuff statements...on a "riff," ya know... It was a facetious remark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Oh Quaker, you take every statement too seriously and literally. I make many off-the-cuff statements...on a "riff," ya know... It was a facetious remark. You thought that was a serious comment and not something totally sarcastic? I mean, did I use the wrong emoticon there? Can I not respond to your sarcasm with more sarcasm of my own? Trust me baron, if there is anything here I've learned not to do it's to take you too seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 So that's how you would want a Toronto bid to win, by default? Because Europe is in a potential financial basketcase, rather than winning on merit? That's not how I want the U.S. to "win" again. Maybe it wouldn't be an ideal scenario, but I wouldn't mind if the IOC returned to the US for the reasons you described. '84 was magical, a huge success, an Olympic watershed. Just because you're the only option available doesn't mean you can't stage great Games. Ultimately, that's what matters to me most -- that the next American Olympics be truly outstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gucci Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I wouldn't underestimate a Toronto bid. They would be strong even with a Vancouver handicap. A waterfront Olympics would be magnificent, the money is also to be made in that major television market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I wouldn't underestimate a Toronto bid. They would be strong even with a Vancouver handicap. A waterfront Olympics would be magnificent, the money is also to be made in that major television market. Exactly, Toronto's handicap is similar to Tokyo's so they have a chance. + They present the strongest financial guarantees so anything is possible (doesn't mean its happening). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quaker2001 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I wouldn't underestimate a Toronto bid. They would be strong even with a Vancouver handicap. A waterfront Olympics would be magnificent, the money is also to be made in that major television market. If there's any lingering animosity against the United States, Toronto is the perfect excuse to not come back here for a Summer Olympics for another 2 decades. Will the Euro-centric IOC realize what that might do to their bottom line? That remains to be seen, but then again, they did reject Chicago when it may have meant even more television dollars from the idiots at NBComcast who don't know how to properly value something. Now does Toronto have what it takes? We may find out in 2015. If they sit out 2020, it might be worth bidding for 2024 coming off the Pan Am Games, even if they've got no shot against South Africa, and then maybe strengthen their case for 2028. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gucci Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Of all the possible bid nations, Canada is also in the best financial economic shape. Bond rating agency Moody's Investor Services is maintaining Canada's debt rating at triple-A, the highest possible. The firm said Thursday the AAA rating was warranted, citing among other things, the country's "high degree of economic resiliency" and deficit-cutting efforts by the federal and provincial governments. It based its assumption about resiliency on Canada's "high per capita income, the large scale of the economy and its diversity, including natural resource industries and a competitive manufacturing sector, as well as a well-developed and well-regulated financial market." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 If there's any lingering animosity against the United States, Toronto is the perfect excuse to not come back here for a Summer Olympics for another 2 decades. Will the Euro-centric IOC realize what that might do to their bottom line? That remains to be seen, but then again, they did reject Chicago when it may have meant even more television dollars from the idiots at NBComcast who don't know how to properly value something. Now does Toronto have what it takes? We may find out in 2015. If they sit out 2020, it might be worth bidding for 2024 coming off the Pan Am Games, even if they've got no shot against South Africa, and then maybe strengthen their case for 2028. That's just it. Relations between the USOC and the IOC are improving markedly. Why would the IOC throw that away? Especially on a country that just hosted Winter Games to less than universal praise and is not a major sports power. I think Toronto definitely has what it takes, but I think the timing is off. Even if they bid, I believe the IOC would return a verdict of "not yet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gucci Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I respectfully disagree. We all know the city of Toronto, if they do bid, will put forth the best technical bid out of the bunch. It will be that good to get the city to one of the final ballots. If Toronto is the only North American city bidding and shortlisted could work in its favor in a field flooded by a few European bids, that's if you include Turkey and a solo Asian bid. A Toronto bid would slay a Madrid bid. Barcelona is the biggest handicap of them all. Yes, Canada hosted a Winter games in 2010, not a Summer games like Spain's Barcelona in 1992. As of now, I'd say Rome is the front runner in this race but the field is completely wide open. Probably the most open its been for the past few Summer races. Another thing I'd like to note. If Toronto officials haven't denounced a possible 2020 bid as of yet, then we can safely assume that there is something being worked on behind the scene. There has been speculation for months and months, and we heard from the COC a few years ago that work was ongoing on a 2020 bid. If the city wasn't interested, we would already have an official statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 That's just it. Relations between the USOC and the IOC are improving markedly. Why would the IOC throw that away? Especially on a country that just hosted Winter Games to less than universal praise and is not a major sports power. Less the universal praise? Rogge called it terrific, and some media outlets called it the best games ever. Major Sports power? Canada just owned the winter games last year and wants to finish in the top 12 next year (more then 26 medals) and thats not a power? Toronto > Any USA bid in terms of technicality but all other factors are against Toronto, but they just have to convince the IOC otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I don't question Toronto's capability and they may well bid. I still don't think the timing is in their favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I respectfully disagree. We all know the city of Toronto, if they do bid, will put forth the best technical bid out of the bunch. It will be that good to get the city to one of the final ballots. If Toronto is the only North American city bidding and shortlisted could work in its favor in a field flooded by a few European bids, that's if you include Turkey and a solo Asian bid. A Toronto bid would slay a Madrid bid. Barcelona is the biggest handicap of them all. Yes, Canada hosted a Winter games in 2010, not a Summer games like Spain's Barcelona in 1992. As of now, I'd say Rome is the front runner in this race but the field is completely wide open. Probably the most open its been for the past few Summer races. Another thing I'd like to note. If Toronto officials haven't denounced a possible 2020 bid as of yet, then we can safely assume that there is something being worked on behind the scene. There has been speculation for months and months, and we heard from the COC a few years ago that work was ongoing on a 2020 bid. If the city wasn't interested, we would already have an official statement. Not with Rob Ford hosting an all day meeting today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gucci Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Not with Rob Ford hosting an all day meeting today What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intoronto Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 What? Toronto's mayor is hosting an all day (literally 7am until its finished its still going at 10:53pm) and proposed budget cuts to tame a $775 million dollar shortfall. So basically he has no time to sign of on a bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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