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The tennis precinct at Melbourne Olympic Park (which hosts the annual Austalian Open- one of the four Grand Slam events in the world), has Rod Laver Arena (retractable roof) 15,000; Hisense Arena (retractable roof), 10,500 capacity; Margaret Court Arena (retractable roof), 7,500 and then dozens of other small (both indoor and outdoor) training and tournament courts with capacities from a few hundred to over a thousand.

Go figure .

Congrats? I guess now that your point has been so snidely made we can all rest easy that this important issue was laid to rest..

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I don't know... But this visit was very surprising, Madrid seemed very solid and everyone was letting them out of race, just beware 'cause they may suprise in Buenos Aires

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Congrats? I guess now that your point has been so snidely made we can all rest easy that this important issue was laid to rest..

How am I being snide by simply stating facts? A statement was made that suggested that Madrid was unparalleled in its tennis facilities - Melbourne, as an example, proves otherwise.

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I think Tokyo will have to bid a 3rd time. This one's going to be between Madrid and Istanbul!!

Tokyo should bid for 2024... What a race are we going to see :rolleyes:

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Madrid can demostrate that is possible to organize great but simple Olympic Games even in an economic crisis, most of the venues ready and the city is full of sporting spirit.

Istanbul is a very good offer too, but I think they are not ready. I won't be mad if they win.

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I think Tokyo will have to bid a 3rd time. This one's going to be between Madrid and Istanbul!!

Why? I doubt Tokyo would come back for a 3rd time, since even this 2nd consecutive was hard to come by. But Madrid you can beat the whole kit & kaboodle, they'd be back for yet a stubborn 4th time. Plus, electing Tokyo 2020 would enhance the chances for the IOC to see more bids for 2024, while electing Madrid would limit them, since the Europeans would be see their chances for 2024 greatly diminish. Unless of course they have Madrid-itis, that is! :lol:

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Madrid can demostrate that is possible to organize great but simple Olympic Games even in an economic crisis, most of the venues ready and the city is full of sporting spirit.

Istanbul is a very good offer too, but I think they are not ready. I won't be mad if they win.

You here all this talk about Madrid being ready, but so is Tokyo. They, too have most of the venues ready. While in theory, organizing "simple" Olympic Games sounds good, but when you combine that with times of "economic crisis", it doesn't sound that great anymore. Plus, is that what the IOC REALLY wants? Not likely. Not when others are willing to offer them more.

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In my opinion in this ocassion the feeling after the IOC visit Is that they were really impressed with this bid. This is better than the two before because is more compact and has spectacular venues in the city as: La Zarzuela, Las Ventas, El Retiro or Olympic stadium.

Furthemore, in this ocassion Spain has 3 members of the IOC who can vote and one of them is member of the executive comitte. They are now the most important value to get the games because they will use the public relations and the contact with the other members to have success.

Tokyo is amazing but they dont offer anything new for the Olympic movement. And Istambul has serious problems in security, transports and concept. It is not necessary to spend 20 billion dolars as Tokyo or 60 billion dolars as Istanbul. Madrid 2020 could be the first games with profits after Los Angeles 84.

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Furthemore, in this ocassion Spain has 3 members of the IOC who can vote and one of them is member of the executive comitte. They are now the most important value to get the games because they will use the public relations and the contact with the other members to have

Except members from bidding countries don't vote ... Until their city is eliminated.

Edited by Sir Rols
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Except members from bidding countries don't vote ... Until their city is eliminated.

Exactly... I am talking about that Spanish IOC member are having the opportunity to explain the project directly with the other members.

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Tokyo is amazing but they dont offer anything new for the Olympic movement. And Istambul has serious problems in security, transports and concept. It is not necessary to spend 20 billion dolars as Tokyo or 60 billion dolars as Istanbul. Madrid 2020 could be the first games with profits after Los Angeles 84.

And what does Madrid offer that would be "new" to the Olympic Movement? A "fiscally responsible" concept? As if this has never been brought up before in the past? That would be all fine & dandy, if that's the way the IOC really wants to go & under NORMAL circumstances, but not when the country is going through a 2nd deep recession with crippling unemployment. It seems very contradictory. And IDK where you got your numbers from, but from what I've read, Tokyo would spend 5 billion & Istanbul 19.5 billion on the Games.

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Exactly... I am talking about that Spanish IOC member are having the opportunity to explain the project directly with the other members.

I agree with you there. Having more IOC members gives a bidder more tools to lobby with.

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And what does Madrid offer that would be "new" to the Olympic Movement? A "fiscally responsible" concept? As if this has never been brought up before in the past? That would be all fine & dandy, if that's the way the IOC really wants to go & under NORMAL circumstances, but not when the country is going through a 2nd deep recession with crippling unemployment. It seems very contradictory. And IDK where you got your numbers from, but from what I've read, Tokyo would spend 5 billion & Istanbul 19.5 billion on the Games.

All the world is in crisis. It is not an argue againts Madrid 2020. And this doubts were resolved in the last visit of the IOC.

The head of the comission, Sir Criag Reedie, said that: "spanish economy will grow up and we wil include in the report [for the IOC members]". But everybody knows that Jacques Rogge appreciate Madrid 2020 bid and he said few days ago: "the crisis did not affect the Madrid bid, they are ready for the games"

In a another hand, we can see only some articles from de international press and how they said that the international crisis is not a problem for the Spanish bid right now:

France: http://www.20minutes.fr/sport/1123093-20130321-jo-2020-candidature-madrid-viable-selon-cio

Venezuela: http://www.eluniversal.com/deportes/130321/coi-ve-economicamente-viable-la-candidatura-de-madrid-2020

Mexico: http://www.informador.com.mx/deportes/2013/444873/6/rogge-cree-que-la-crisis-no-afectara-a-madrid-2020.htm

Mexico: http://mx.deportes.yahoo.com/noticias/coi-ve-viable-econ%C3%B3micamente-candidatura-madrid-2020-185745785--spt.html

Chile: http://deportes.terra.cl/otros-deportes/el-coi-ve-viable-economicamente-la-candidatura-de-madrid-2020,6cace01a4fc8d310VgnCLD2000000ec6eb0aRCRD.html

Spain: http://www.diariodesevilla.es/article/deportes/1487289/madrid/ya/no/teme/la/crisis.html

Europe: http://en.europeonline-magazine.eu/analysis-euphoria-in-madrid-2020-crisis-no-longer-a-big-dealby-sebastian-fest-dpa_272195.html

The feelings after the visit of the IOC is better than ever; and the authorities, the responsable of Madrid 2020 and people in all the country belive that in this ocassion could be posible.

What does Madrid 2020 offer new? a compact bid which will show all the world amazing venues with a typicall Spanish accent:

- Las ventas bullring for baskets impressed a lot the IOC members.

- El Retiro for voley beach, with a great environment in the city center.

- Santiago Bernabeu, everyone knows that is an iconic stadium for all the supporters of football.

- La Zarzuela with a spectacular views of the skyline of the city

Now all the bids project amazing venues but it doent say anything about the country where is celebrating the games. It has not the character of the city. If Madrid host the games, all the olympic family will see the passion of the spaniards.

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Well, I also was very, very impressed by Madrids presentations during the Evaluation Commission visits. It was a hughe success for the Bid Committee.

But overall I am not sure if it really can help them to win. Of course, the Madrid concept is compact and reliable. But there are still some weak points in the Bid (OCOCG Budget f.e.) and the Bid is missing the "Wow-Factor" - the same with Tokyo: A stable Bid but if you read through the Bid Documents of both Bids, I cant see, why they want to host the Games.

They are not telling a story - like London did back in 2005 ("Inspire a generation") and Rio did so very well back in 2009. We all know that Rio submitted a very weak concept back in 2009 and that Tokyo, Chicago and Madrid had submitted a more detailed and compact technical Concept. But Rio was the only city which was praised in the Evaluation Commission report - they were the only candidate, that "narrated" a story - why Rio, why now.

I think that Istanbul can create that momentum too - but they must use the Evaluation Commission visit as a start now. Their Bid documents lacked in detail if we only take a look in Venue Planing - but their concept as a whole looks quite stable and sound. And if we read through the Bid Book of Istanbul, they match the "Lingua Franca" of the Olympic Movement best.

I also do love the Madrid Bid as it is their third attempt but I miss the vision behind it - the same with Tokyo. Both cities improved their concept but I dont know if this alone is really is enough to win...

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Wow. Looks like Madrid isn't out of the race. Maybe we will see a two rounds of voting instead of the one overwhelming majority i was predicting.

September 7th might be interesting after all.

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Will i think there are not a clear "wow-factor" like Río 2016. They presuaded de members saying that southamerica have never hosted a games, and they did very well. But Istanbul doesnt have this factor. Is it Europe? Asia? Doesnt matter, it is not enought. Istanbul has weakness that cant solve:

- Syria with the civil war is an important problem for the security.

- Armenia and Georgia never will acept a games in Turkey because the Armenian genocide. And France, Italy, Swiss and Germany have mistrust about them because this question.

- Turkey broke the relations with Israel after the conflict of the humanitaryan boat.

- everyone knows the bad relations between Greece and Turkey are really bad.

Armenia and Georgia never participated in a games organaized by Turkey. They are not potencial countries in the games, but the rest of the world never accept this situation in XXI century.

However, Tokyo has a good challance if they can get the european and asian vote. Tokyo will be in the second round with Madrid, which has:

- american vote, not only the latin-american; USA and Canada want to bid for 2024 and prefer Madrid.

- Asian votes from contries which doesnt have good relations with Japan as: South Korea and China.

- European votes from countries which wont bid in 2024.

- Spanish Royal Family has strong and powerful relations with the arabic and others muslim countries. Madrid will take votes from them.

The winner city will get the games for a few votes. In my opinion 2016 was clear that Río win, but 2020 election is so exciting.

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- Armenia and Georgia never will acept a games in Turkey because the Armenian genocide. And France, Italy, Swiss and Germany have mistrust about them because this question.

And you think what two tiny nations think will have a greater impact than, say, what China currently thinks of Japan? All nations have foreign policy difficulties, and Turkey probably has more than most simply because of its geography. But it is a fairly safe country nonetheless, and its seen a bigger increase in tourism than just about anywhere else in the World over the past decade. It's not completely safe, certainly, and its security difficulties will be looked at. But a bid killer? No way.

- everyone knows the bad relations between Greece and Turkey are really bad.

Greece is actually supporting Istanbul 2020 - http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000078792&story_title=Greece-will-support-Turkey’s-2020-Olympic-bid - so that's a non-argument.

It amuses me that you list problems Turkey has with foreign relations as though other nations don't have their own problems. My feeling is these things will even themselves out and Turkey will win or lose based on the strength of its bid and its message. And this is where I do agree with you Davodmad; Istanbul's call for the Games is nowhere near as strong as Rio's was. It has the strongest narrative of the three bids on offer, but it's not as powerful as Rio's message and never will be, and it has the difficulty of bidding against two superb technical bids. It's in a race with two faster cars, does it have the driver to make up the difference?

Edited by RobH
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And you think what two tiny nations think will have a greater impact than, say, what China currently thinks of Japan? All nations have foreign policy difficulties, and Turkey probably has more than most simply because of its geography. But it is a fairly safe country nonetheless, and its seen a bigger increase in tourism than just about anywhere else in the World over the past decade. It's not completely safe, certainly, and its security difficulties will be looked at. But a bid killer? No way.

Greece is actually supporting Istanbul 2020 - http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000078792&story_title=Greece-will-support-Turkey’s-2020-Olympic-bid - so that's a non-argument.

It amuses me that you list problems Turkey has with foreign relations as though other nations don't have their own problems. My feeling is these things will even themselves out and Turkey will win or lose based on the strength of its bid and its message. And this is where I do agree with you Davodmad; Istanbul's call for the Games is nowhere near as strong as Rio's was. It has the strongest narrative of the three bids on offer, but it's not as powerful as Rio's message and never will be, and it has the difficulty of bidding against two superb technical bids. It's in a race with two faster cars, does it have the driver to make up the difference?

First of all, Could be two tiny countries but the Armenian genocide is an important question for Europen Union, Germany, France...

Secondly, the primer minister of Greece doesnt vote. I remember when they backed Madrid 2012 and in the third round they voted London ;)

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Davosmad... Te estás cubriendo de gloria y perjudicando a Mdd 2020, haz critica constructiva y no echando por tierra a los demás, ya q no estamos en una situación como para ponernos como ejemplo.

I've said : he doesnt need to say such those type bad thing of everybid for make bigger Mdd 2020, it is not fair play, and we have problems too as everycountry.

Piensa un poco, piensa en todos.

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the primer minister of Greece doesnt vote. I remember when they backed Madrid 2012 and in the third round they voted London ;)

No, he doesn't but it conveys to the IOC and other observers that erstwhile, forsworn enemy Greece is behind rival Turkey in this issue. (Hopefully, that includes the 2 Greek votes in the IOC as well.) That's what the endorsement means.

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All the world is in crisis. It is not an argue againts Madrid 2020. And this doubts were resolved in the last visit of the IOC.

The head of the comission, Sir Criag Reedie, said that: "spanish economy will grow up and we wil include in the report [for the IOC members]". But everybody knows that Jacques Rogge appreciate Madrid 2020 bid and he said few days ago: "the crisis did not affect the Madrid bid, they are ready for the games"

The whole world is not in crisis. Japan & Turkey, for exmaple, don't have 25% percent crippling unemployment like Spain does at the moment. And even if that were the case, all things being equal in crisis, then other things would have to factor in. Like out of the three, who's never hosted before, etc.

And of course Rogge is going to say optimistic words about the MAdrid bid. He's a diplomat. What else would you expect him to say? "Madrid's bid sucks. It's not what the IOC is looking for". Come on here. And EVERY evaluation visit that the IOC commission does goes off "without a hitch" for the bidding cities. It's expected. They see only what they want to see. But in secret ballot, everything in those inspections could go just right out the window,. It's just the nature of the game.

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