Madrid 2020

[Rob2012]

Besides the fact that i think Madrid hosting the 2020 Olympics is a laughable idea under the current situation, there are broader issues at play. The Spanish banks and the Spanish government will both face total European bailout this year. With that around their necks how on earth do they think that these same European countries (Germany, France) would in anyway support them to host an Olympics with basically their money?? Its an utter joke.

Secondly, when 1 in 4 peopledo not have a job (and likely to hit 1 in 3 not too far away), so many people are being evicted from their homes and are battling to survive, schools and hospitals are suffering with massive declines in funding. Within all of this how on earth do you expect the people to even support a bid where so much money is being pumped into an Olympics while the lives they know are totally crumbling around them?

People in here live far too much in fantasyland rather than reality

Your first paragraph raises some sound points. The bank bailout might make it hard for Madrid to gain European votes; that's certainly an issue (and if those nations are looking at 2024, they might not want to be handing their votes out to a European bid anyway).

Your second paragraph however goes against all the facts. Madrid 2012, 2016, and 2020 have consistently polled well in terms of support amongst the people of Spain and within the city itself. Whilst popular support is rarely a deciding factor, Madrid has scored well in this regard in all their recent bids. How can that be? Well there are a few factors I suppose. The first being, popular support isn't necessarily linked to the welfare of the populace. Often poorer cities show much higher popular support for bids than rich cities in developed countries (compare Rio to Chicago, New York to Moscow, Salzburg to Sochi). Secondly, Spain has one of the biggest Olympic success stories to boast about in Barcelona. I'm sure Madrileños support their city's bids at least in part becasue they want a bit of that action. Thirdly, there's the more recent factors to do with the economy. A confidence boost, regeneration and some job creation could look quite attractive. So you may ask "how on earth do you expect the people to even support a bid" but the fact of the matter is they do.

[Blacksheep]

Besides the fact that i think Madrid hosting the 2020 Olympics is a laughable idea under the current situation, there are broader issues at play. The Spanish banks and the Spanish government will both face total European bailout this year. With that around their necks how on earth do they think that these same European countries (Germany, France) would in anyway support them to host an Olympics with basically their money?? Its an utter joke.

Secondly, when 1 in 4 peopledo not have a job (and likely to hit 1 in 3 not too far away), so many people are being evicted from their homes and are battling to survive, schools and hospitals are suffering with massive declines in funding. Within all of this how on earth do you expect the people to even support a bid where so much money is being pumped into an Olympics while the lives they know are totally crumbling around them?

People in here live far too much in fantasyland rather than reality

A successful bid will be an catalyst for building work helping the construction sector, infrastructure improvements which will massively help business in Madrid - and having worked there this is a significant need - whilst constructing a large Olympic village of 18,000 people will provide a large opportunity for post games affordable housing.

Banks and sponsors are always willing to spend money on facilities where they will have a global awareness raised, and in fact a number of the venues are actually already in place or under construction. The comment that this will be paid for by German and French money is one of the most inaccurate statements made, truly one created from a mind living in fantasyland.

The bailout is in fact going to the banks only because the austerity actions already enacted by the Spanish Government are already sufficient to get their debt levels under control even though they are going to slightly miss their target. That is why the EU has agree to send the money directly to the banks.

People make a big deal about unemployment rates, but they have already been comparatively high in Spain because of how it is measured/recorded - I have previously worked for a retail business in the UK where the staff turnover rate in the UK per annum was 23% and at our Spanish subsidiary it was 89% and at one retail business in Spain - Zara - staff turnover was 130% per annum and this was before the global downturn. This is because of how the Spanish work force operates so could people please get their facts straight rather than get their information from press sensationalism.

Lets not forget that the malaise in the Spanish economy was caused by the property crash, and one of the best ways to make Spain a country of choice again is to host a major international spectacle.

And again public support for Madrid 2020 remains extremely high far more so than for Tokyo 2020 because the Spanish realise that an Olympics is a great way to paint Spain in a positive light and receive inward investment. Only the ignorant would see parallels with Athens and Greece.

[Athensfan]

What major construction is Madrid planning as part of their bid? What jobs will be created?

[Blacksheep]

What major construction is Madrid planning as part of their bid? What jobs will be created?

We'll start off with the building of the Olympic village and the main Olympic Stadium

Madrid Badajoz airport will be expanded and impetus will be retained to develop the Campo Real airport.

The ring road motorway will be expanded and completed and anyone who has travelled on it will be aware that is a nightmare.

The area to the northwest of the city was being expanded 2007-08 but this ground to a halt with the downturn occured. A number of these areas will now be completed particularly the access roads which are vital.

Both the overland rail and the metro will be upgraded which will certainly help the business community in Madrid.

I'd think that maybe 20,000 jobs will be created in the short term and the news the 'Madrid is open for business' will continue that beyond the games in spite of the economic news that the press delights in sensationalising.

[Athensfan]

I'd be very surprised if all that translated to 20,000 jobs.

[Blacksheep]

I'd be very surprised if all that translated to 20,000 jobs.

The NorthWest of Madrid has been a construction site in the 10years I've had to travel there for work. Based on how much a successful Olympic bid could invigorate the completion of even 50% of this work, then it would undoubtedly be that for the completion of this work ..... and then of course this would help the economy turn resulting in the creation of more work. I've often felt that in many ways the infrastructure of Madrid has held the city back compared to Paris, London and even Berlin. A successful Olympic games would help alleviate this.

The NorthWest of Madrid has been a construction site in the 10years I've had to travel there for work. Based on how much a successful Olympic bid could invigorate the completion of even 50% of this work, then it would undoubtedly be that for the completion of this work ..... and then of course this would help the economy turn resulting in the creation of more work. I've often felt that in many ways the infrastructure of Madrid has held the city back compared to Paris, London and even Berlin. A successful Olympic games would help alleviate this.

Sorry I mean North East, Madrid is a nightmare for trying to get your compass bearings

[Athan]

The mayor of Madrid, Ana Botella, has said that there could be more than 300,000 jobs created with the Olympic Games.

[Athensfan]

The mayor of Madrid, Ana Botella, has said that there could be more than 300,000 jobs created with the Olympic Games.

People say all kinds of crazy things when they're trying to win. I can't see 300,000 for the life of me. Especially for a city that claims it already has almost everything in place.

[dysan1]

i stick by what i said. i think alot of you live in olympics fantasyland. Spain were given over E100billion the other day because they are falling apart. the president that doesnt want to get tarnished says it is loan, but seriously it is a bailout. the locals even realise this. And frankly this is just the beginning. in the next year Spain will deteriorate further, this money will be quickly gone. and the already evident social knock on effects would never be compensated for by an olympics, winning the olympics would probably haden resolve against spain by other europeans and be even more detrimental, thats if they can even convince the other europeans that it is ok that europe pays for spain to host the event, for the money wont be coming out of their pockets.

Some of you are also very hypocritical. You say that Durban or South Africa should not bid for the games because of our social issues, but Spain, which is currently far more financially unstable with massive growing social issues is ok because of the value of hosting the games will bring?? get real. you cant have it both ways.

And on how the umemployment situation in spain works,... i know this very well, especially when i know you need a dual income to generally afford any form of apartment in the major cities. when one of the two people loses their job, the money dries up, they default and as is the current situation 1000s and 1000s of properties are being reposessed.

Hosting this event or even just winning the right to is NOT going to change the countries deep running economic issues, no major sporting event ever truely does. Yes it can bolster image for awhile, but it also gives a massive platform for those to rally against it, like we have seen in Bahrain with the F1. Be careful what you wish for.

300000 jobs from the Olympics? yes of course, if you use low paid temporary labour working limited hours in a week to bolster the number of people "gaining" employment. there are boundless ways to come to a number like that legitamitely, but frnkly it is inflated as all these events proponents do.

And while the citizens of Madrid have undoubtably been positive about this bid for years... as things get to the lows they are at now and even lower, human nature takes over. yes they will grasp on any hope for a better life thrown at them by the corrupt political figures, but they will also be wary of how the government can find money for this when my living standards are rapidly declining.

Spain is at a tipping point, too many nudges and it will go down in a big way

[Rob2012]

I honestly think you're reading a different forum to me.

Before you call anyone hypocritical can you perhaps name those who are saying South Africa shouldn't bid but Spain should? I can't think of anyone off the top of my head. I can think of very few people in this forum who don't want to see a South Africa bid actually, but I can see many who are wary of Spain this time around. If anything South Africa is probably being given too easy a ride on these forums - with lots of people assuming they only need to bid to walk away with the prize.

Edited June 11, 2012 by RobH

[FYI]

Actually, there have been some throughtout these forums before that have mentioned that South Africa shouldn't bid bcuz of their bigger social issues. They're in the minority but they R here. Can't think of these specific individuals off the top of my head, but I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of them R the same ones that cite Spain's economic problems aren't that big of a deal.

[zekekelso]

Especially for a city that claims it already has almost everything in place.

When did it claim that again? (note - don't confuse "venues" with "everything")

[Athensfan]

There have been several stories where representatives of Madrid argued the Games would be low-cost because the city is so prepared already. And yet others argue the city will receive a huge influx of capital and jobs. The stories seem contradictory.

Personally, I would love to see the Games in Durban and Madrid. I think Durban will host first though.

I did applaud the rationale behind SA's decision to refrain from bidding for 2020. If the government believes other concerns are more pressing, they are in a position to know. I respect their commitment to taking care of business rather than being seduced by Olympic glamour. I do hope they host soon though.

Of course, I'd really like to see American SOGs soon too, but that certainly doesn't mean I'm opposed to SA.

[zekekelso]

I might be the hypocrite you are thinking of. I don't know if I've said a South African city shouldn't bid (I might have). I have said that the costs of the games are such that I don't know if South African city will bid. For the record, I'd love to see an Olympics in South Africa. But I'd love to see the IOC change their requirements allowing a much cheaper games before that happens.

But it is not hypocritical to argue that economic considerations should not keep the Olympics from Madrid, while also arguing that economic consideration should keep the games from somewhere else unless the somewhere else has the same economy as Madrid. There is a world of difference between a rich country with an unemployment problem (Spain) and a poor country (South Africa).

[Athensfan]

I might be the hypocrite you are thinking of. I don't know if I've said a South African city shouldn't bid (I might have). I have said that the costs of the games are such that I don't know if South African city will bid. For the record, I'd love to see an Olympics in South Africa. But I'd love to see the IOC change their requirements allowing a much cheaper games before that happens.

But it is not hypocritical to argue that economic considerations should not keep the Olympics from Madrid, while also arguing that economic consideration should keep the games from somewhere else unless the somewhere else has the same economy as Madrid. There is a world of difference between a rich country with an unemployment problem (Spain) and a poor country (South Africa).

Bangladesh is a poor country. South Africa may not be at the top of the totem pole, but they're not at the bottom either.

[zekekelso]

Bangladesh is a poor country. South Africa may not be at the top of the totem pole, but they're not at the bottom either.

OK, change my statement to be there are big differences between a rich country (Spain) and a not-rich country (South Africa)

[Sir Rols]

Just glad people are buying Madrid "shares" in the prediction market - it's making it affordable to snatch up more Tokyo shares.

[runningrings]

OK, change my statement to be there are big differences between a rich country (Spain) and a not-rich country (South Africa)

I wouldn't call Spain a rich country. They wouldn't need bailing-out by the likes of Germany and the UK if they were rich.

[Michelle]

Waken up, Madrid. Smell the coffee.

[zekekelso]

I wouldn't call Spain a rich country. They wouldn't need bailing-out by the likes of Germany and the UK if they were rich.

Spanish *banks* just got a bail out from other banks. Some bankers in Spain made dumb decisions; their companies lost money. Bankers in other countries are going to loan money to their banker friends in Spain. Doesn't change the fact that there is a fast amount of Wealth in Spain.

[lrd1rocha]

I wouldn't call Spain a rich country. They wouldn't need bailing-out by the likes of Germany and the UK if they were rich.

Using that reasoning, the bailout of the US banks means that the United States is a poor country. The same would apply to the UK since it bailed out the Royal Bank of Scotland. The difference between the bank bailouts in the US/UK with that of Spain is that Washington and London have more control than Spain does (since it is in the Eurozone). Of course, if the PIIGS decide to jump ship and default, then the German banks will join the bail out club.

[Athan]

Paraplegic cyclist Diego Ballesteros will handcycle 1,800 km from Madrid to London to support the Madrid 2020 bid. He will be joined by other Spanish cyclists, like Pedro Delgado, Miguel Indurain and Alberto Contador.

Also, the bid team is studying whether to include Palacio de Vistalegre and Las Ventas bullring in the project as venues for boxing and beach volleyball, respectively, as they are more iconic buildings and would probably be more suitable for the athletes than the suggested temporary venues.

[baron-pierreIV]

Just catching up on this thread. Many interesting thoughts. Now I am switched all around. After having seen Istanbul, while it would be a new frontier and an exotic setting, I think it will be a VERY DiFFICULT setting to stage the Olympics there. They might as well have 2 villages: one in the Asian side and another in the Euro side--and house athletes of each sport on whichever continent to their respective Asian or Euro side -- if an Olympics there is to go off smoothly. Tokyo for me, would be an efficient but BORING Games. Therefore, I am beginning to have a change of heart and will now be rooting for Madrid, uphill as that battle might be.

[zigzag]

Just catching up on this thread. Many interesting thoughts. Now I am switched all around. After having seen Istanbul, while it would be a new frontier and an exotic setting, I think it will be a VERY DiFFICULT setting to stage the Olympics there. They might as well have 2 villages: one in the Asian side and another in the Euro side--and house athletes of each sport on whichever continent to their respective Asian or Euro side -- if an Olympics there is to go off smoothly. Tokyo for me, would be an efficient but BORING Games. Therefore, I am beginning to have a change of heart and will now be rooting for Madrid, uphill as that battle might be.

well.. but things still can change..... seeing the 2020 race i can't choose anything this 3 bids have a totally different idea nothing is the same well..maybe it means an interesting race await us...

[baron-pierreIV]

well.. but things still can change..... seeing the 2020 race i can't choose anything this 3 bids have a totally different idea nothing is the same well..maybe it means an interesting race await us...

What do you mean 'nothing is the same'? Those are 3 very old, very ancient cities and their geography and layout are pretty much set. They all have their monuments and parks and sacred places already all set...and they can only add new installations in the few spaces left. I have visited all 3; and I now think that Madrid offers the best setting for an Olympic Games. Too much work needs to be done in Istanbul and I doubt that they can do it.