Rob2012 Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Paris and Chicago both had excellent bids. In truth, the media hype made both out to be much stronger favourites than they actually were. I think that level of hype and expectation made the defeats harder for supporters of both bids. On the other hand I read so often that Paris was going to win 2012 that I don't think a London defeat would have been too hard to take. The media narrative in these races can often be wildly off and raise expecations too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Paris and Chicago both had excellent bids. In truth, the media hype made both out to be much stronger favourites than they actually were. I think that level of hype and expectation made the defeats harder for supporters of both bids. On the other hand I read so often that Paris was going to win 2012 that I don't think a London defeat would have been too hard to take. The media narrative in these races can often be wildly off and raise expecations too much. I know! The U.S. media had me thinking we were going to win the 2016 olympics. And we finished 4th! I was so shocked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorabilia Posted July 28, 2011 Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Sport is part of our culture : just see what happened with our football team in 2010. Everybody spoke about it, commented it, was shocked... But as for the Olympic Games, I think we are'n interested anymore. No sport is not in our culture, in our education system... What is the real place of sport at primary school (often teach by the School teacher and not a sport educator) ??? What is the place of sport compared to other subjects in our secondary school system (no one considering sport for the global marks & comments) ??? And what about at the university ???? Compared our annual Ministry of Culture budget (7.1 billion euros) to the Ministry of Sports budget (0.9 billion euros). France is not a sport nation... So we have to change that in hosting more and more international sports events, but with a side project to change mentalities and give a real place for sport in our educational system... And nothing to deal with what happened at the 2010 World Cup. What has shocked people is not the defeat (it was not the first and not the last), but the behaviour of the player that sent the shame on France ! Nothing to deal with sport but just with nation pride! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
España Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 No sport is not in our culture, in our education system... What is the real place of sport at primary school (often teach by the School teacher and not a sport educator) ??? What is the place of sport compared to other subjects in our secondary school system (no one considering sport for the global marks & comments) ??? And what about at the university ???? Compared our annual Ministry of Culture budget (7.1 billion euros) to the Ministry of Sports budget (0.9 billion euros). France is not a sport nation... So we have to change that in hosting more and more international sports events, but with a side project to change mentalities and give a real place for sport in our educational system... And nothing to deal with what happened at the 2010 World Cup. What has shocked people is not the defeat (it was not the first and not the last), but the behaviour of the player that sent the shame on France ! Nothing to deal with sport but just with nation pride! We are one of the best nations in sport : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classement_mondial_des_grandes_nations_du_sport Don't tell me sport is not part of our culture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I do get the sense that the French are weary of the Olympics and understandably so. It seems they have concluded that bidding is not worth the financial or emotional investment and are therefore directing their resources elsewhere. I suspect more countries will follow suit in coming years and that much of the world will be too tired, disheartened and financially strapped to engage in the IOC's bidding drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Financially strapped maybe but disheartened? Only one bid can win each time, why should the world be more disheartened now than at any other point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorabilia Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 We are one of the best nations in sport : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classement_mondial_des_grandes_nations_du_sport Don't tell me sport is not part of our culture I will tell and repeat it again and again. Sport is not part of the French Culture ! We still have good results at an international high level (even it is more and more difficult at the Olympics...) because of a system dedicated to high level sport by General De Gaulle after a terrible Olympic Games in Roma 1960. But elite sport is not mass sport and how it's interact in our day to day life ! I am lucky to travel a lot, so I could compare... Just visit Norway, Germany, the USA or Australia even Russia... and you will feel what is a nation with sports in its culture and roots !!! Sport is everywhere, people are practising sport, people are attending sport... and all type of sport is broadcast on free air TV (and not only 3 or 4 main sports). So we have to change that... and the Olympics could be a tool to help that... but we need a real politic involvement not into leading a bid, but to make the things change in our nation, in term of the place of sport, especially in our educational system... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
España Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I will tell and repeat it again and again. Sport is not part of the French Culture ! We still have good results at an international high level (even it is more and more difficult at the Olympics...) because of a system dedicated to high level sport by General De Gaulle after a terrible Olympic Games in Roma 1960. But elite sport is not mass sport and how it's interact in our day to day life ! I am lucky to travel a lot, so I could compare... Just visit Norway, Germany, the USA or Australia even Russia... and you will feel what is a nation with sports in its culture and roots !!! Sport is everywhere, people are practising sport, people are attending sport... and all type of sport is broadcast on free air TV (and not only 3 or 4 main sports). So we have to change that... and the Olympics could be a tool to help that... but we need a real politic involvement not into leading a bid, but to make the things change in our nation, in term of the place of sport, especially in our educational system... Well, I won't "fight" against you : if you want to think so, think so, but our results and the fact that almost all the children make sport (soccer, tennis, judo or what you want) in France just proves the opposite. But that wasn't the point : I think that France doesn't want, for the moment, to bid for new Olympic Games. It's unlikely that we present a bid for 2020; maybe for 2024, but it would be a bad idea (South Africa's time, I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Posted July 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Well, I won't "fight" against you : if you want to think so, think so, but our results and the fact that almost all the children make sport (soccer, tennis, judo or what you want) in France just proves the opposite. But that wasn't the point : I think that France doesn't want, for the moment, to bid for new Olympic Games. It's unlikely that we present a bid for 2020; maybe for 2024, but it would be a bad idea (South Africa's time, I think). Well, if your Madrid wins 2020, then Paris certainly won't get 2024... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
España Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Well, if your Madrid wins 2020, then Paris certainly won't get 2024... Yeah, of course. Anyway, I don't think that Paris will win in 2024 if France decides to bid. I think that we'll have to wait until 2030 or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorabilia Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 Well, I won't "fight" against you : if you want to think so, think so, but our results and the fact that almost all the children make sport (soccer, tennis, judo or what you want) in France just proves the opposite. France international sports results (#10 at the last Summer Olympics) are not due to our sport culture, but more on a mix of our population (#20), our Economic rank (#5) and so the means given to the high level for a very few elite. And regarding our youth, they are practising sport as it is said to be good for their health and for not let them unoccupied, but it's not becoming in their culture, as as soon as they are teenagers or adult, they skipped it !!! We should change things, as it will be harder and harder to stay in the top 10... when all emerging countries with higher population than France will give means to their elite sport... But that wasn't the point : I think that France doesn't want, for the moment, to bid for new Olympic Games. It's unlikely that we present a bid for 2020; maybe for 2024, but it would be a bad idea (South Africa's time, I think). New here, you probably missed some of our comments on a futur Paris or even France bid ! Everything has to be rebuilt in France in term of sport governance, bid, lobbying and international role of France in worldwide sport.... And it's only when that would have been done, that the NOC will come back with a bid... And will have to find the best concept to bid (compact one with ideally a huge olympic park... so not easy to find in the actual Paris... so it could only be a long term strategy with including it in the 'Grand Paris' project). So it's official that there will be no bid for 2020, and at best something for 2024 (but could be later depending of what we could find as concept and the 2020 results) if the above problems could find a solution... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
memorabilia Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 I do get the sense that the French are weary of the Olympics and understandably so. It seems they have concluded that bidding is not worth the financial or emotional investment and are therefore directing their resources elsewhere. I suspect more countries will follow suit in coming years and that much of the world will be too tired, disheartened and financially strapped to engage in the IOC's bidding drama. No, regarding France, nothing to deal with financial issue ! Finance come together with the project... If you could gather a good project, with a good timing, with a high support (political and national/local) and with a international PR team, you could bid. The problem with France is that there is no project, no political wish to unify all supports and a poor timing.... Regarding a bid process, yes, you need at least 30 millions euros... but you do not need to enter the race and escalate the costs.... If all cities were reasonable you will have your technical studies and your PR actions for 30 millions Euro that would not only just sent through the window, as a good PR actions will replace a communication & promotion campaign and part of the studies could be used for the local development. So, i think we will still find cities ready to spent this amount in order to get more notoriety and also may be have the chance to host and generate all impacts & legacy linked to the Games hosting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
España Posted July 31, 2011 Report Share Posted July 31, 2011 So, i think we will still find cities ready to spent this amount in order to get more notoriety and also may be have the chance to host and generate all impacts & legacy linked to the Games hosting... Honestly, in France, for the SOG, only Paris is able to present a feasible and convincing bid. The bitter defeats of other cities, as Lille o Marseilles, are clear, I think : Paris is our only chance to get it. But we are not alone in this case : the UK quickly understood that only London (and not Manchester or Liverpool) could host it. Consequently, in my opinion, if we really want to bid, there's no question about the city : Paris and that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted August 9, 2011 Report Share Posted August 9, 2011 If Paris had bidded they would've been the favorites to win IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCatra Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 What a blown opportunity, they'd be favourites. Looks like the 7 votes left them with a scar. yeh, I'm kinda shocked they wont bid... I thought their strategy on not bidding for 2016 was perfect then turns out they wont bid for 2020 either... now they need to hope that a north american city wins it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soaring Posted August 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 yeh, I'm kinda shocked they wont bid... I thought their strategy on not bidding for 2016 was perfect then turns out they wont bid for 2020 either... now they need to hope that a north american city wins it.. Actually the best scenario for Paris sitting out in 2020, would have been if Durban entered and won the race. That would get rid of the "Africa factor" in the 2024 race, which to me is very strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCatra Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Actually the best scenario for Paris sitting out in 2020, would have been if Durban entered and won the race. That would get rid of the "Africa factor" in the 2024 race, which to me is very strong. You're more experienced than me on bids, that's for sure but my logic is: IF USA don't bid for 2020 then 2024 is automatic their, unless toronto wins it (i doubt). Seriously, the IOC wont stay out of the US for 32 years... I could be my arm on that... So yeh, since US wont bid for 2020 then 2024 will be there, so 2028 becomes almost 'automatically' Africa's turn... Basically it's 2020 or 2032 for Paris... Anyway, I thought SA wouldn't bid in 2020... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olimpik Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I think Paris would be the clear favourite if they have bidded. They missed a great chance here in this weak competition. It might take longer than we think for a 3rd Paris Games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 I think Paris would be the clear favourite if they have bidded. They missed a great chance here in this weak competition. It might take longer than we think for a 3rd Paris Games. They haven't played the secret "de Coubertin" bid yet...by asking a living great-grandson to head the bid!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brekkie Boy Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 The IOC will have other options besides a Euro bid, especially if a U.S. & Canadian bid are put forward, plus you have Istanbul as an option, between Europe/Asia so it really wouldn't rule out a European city for 2024. Can't see the IOC going for back to back games in the Americas - especially now NBC have paid up. Financially it's best keep a US city until the next TV deal. Where in Europe do you think? Rome or Madrid? Two countries with major debts. Berlin? I think that they remain focused on Munich. They know it was a very good bid. But who knows. Or Istanbul is an option. Other cities from Europe I don't know yet? The Olympics and debt go hand in hand though, and cities can just spin it as creating much needed job opportunities rather than spending billions of government dollars. I've not paid particular intention but with Madrid having built venues as a result of past bids and Rome having a fairly solid, though perhaps ageing, sporting infrastructure, the two cities might be cheaper options than say Istanbul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchy Posted August 16, 2011 Report Share Posted August 16, 2011 I think Paris would be the clear favourite if they have bidded. What makes you think that? Is there something that you know that we don't? I do get the sense that the French are weary of the Olympics and understandably so. It seems they have concluded that bidding is not worth the financial or emotional investment and are therefore directing their resources elsewhere. I suspect more countries will follow suit in coming years and that much of the world will be too tired, disheartened and financially strapped to engage in the IOC's bidding drama. The most insightful comment that I have read in months! No sport is not in our culture, in our education system... What is the real place of sport at primary school (often teach by the School teacher and not a sport educator) ??? What is the place of sport compared to other subjects in our secondary school system (no one considering sport for the global marks & comments) ??? And what about at the university ???? Compared our annual Ministry of Culture budget (7.1 billion euros) to the Ministry of Sports budget (0.9 billion euros). France is not a sport nation... So we have to change that in hosting more and more international sports events, but with a side project to change mentalities and give a real place for sport in our educational system... N'importe quoi...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athensfan Posted August 17, 2011 Report Share Posted August 17, 2011 You're more experienced than me on bids, that's for sure but my logic is: IF USA don't bid for 2020 then 2024 is automatic their, unless toronto wins it (i doubt). Seriously, the IOC wont stay out of the US for 32 years... I could be my arm on that... So yeh, since US wont bid for 2020 then 2024 will be there, so 2028 becomes almost 'automatically' Africa's turn... Basically it's 2020 or 2032 for Paris... Anyway, I thought SA wouldn't bid in 2020... I like your ideas and I wish it would play out that way, but I doubt that it will. I think the IOC is so passionate about getting to Africa that they're not going to let anything stand in their way. I fear the weakest competition for South Africa would be an American bid -- the big bad superpower against the poor little forgotten punching bag of the world. That vote would be a landslide. I can see Paris faring better against Durban than an American city. The only thing that might change the equation would be major economic turmoil. If the global economy is in such bad shape that no one wants to host and the IOC is desperate for cash, they might choose the US over an African bid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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