New sports at 2020 Olympics

[ofan]

Its a delicate balance between youth appeal and ancient history. Its why MP isn't dropped.

Well put. But I still don't like wrestling lol.

[runningrings]

all this stuff about wrestling being a traditional Olympic sport. If the Olympics cared that much about traditional sports they wouldn't have added BmX and wouldn't be looking to add 3 on 3 bball.

This doesn't really add up - its not a matter of choosing one or the other - but a balance between the two. Regardless of how you feel about it, it is a core sport, an original sport - and I think as a matter of heritage (in addition to fostering support of what is genuinely an amateur sport - compared to the likes of Golf or Basketball) it should receive immunity - along with other Olympic sports that really can only receive high exposure through the event itself (Swimming, Athletics, et al. )

I actually support BMX in the Olympics - and I'd even support the inclusion of something like Skateboarding, but I think dropping Wrestling to facilitate the inclusion of an elite, high paid sport like Baseball is somewhat foul.

[intoronto]

but I think dropping Wrestling to facilitate the inclusion of an elite, high paid sport like Baseball is somewhat foul.

High elite? Since when lol/

If poor kids in Uganda can qualify to compete at the little league world series anyone can play the game.

Though I agree wrestling before b/s

[runningrings]

High elite? Since when lol/

If poor kids in Uganda can qualify to compete at the little league world series anyone can play the game.

Though I agree wrestling before b/s

Elite in terms of the salaries many professional players receive. A sport like wrestling doesn't receive anywhere near that kind of exposure. This is why the Olympics are so much more important for these sports - the likes of Tennis, Golf, Sailing, Baseball etc... while I enjoy some of them at an Olympic level, are the disposable sports IMO, as they are by virtue of their own existence elite, wealthy sports, that have major events and championships that exist outside the Olympics (eg/ Wimbledon/ Masters/ America's Cup/ World Series....)

The crux of it is that a sport like Baseball won't be drastically impacted by Olympic exclusion - however Wrestling, whose existence has largely been formed by the Olympics, would be dealt a serious blow. Thats not even considering the fact that it embodies Olympic history. But it seems like they're getting that message across, as it appears likely that Wrestling will remain.

Im not sure if the IOC has one, but I think some sports that date back to 1896, and have roots to the Ancient Olympics, should be a permanent fixture of the Olympics. So there would be core sports that are integral to the culture of the Olympics - and then second tier sports like tennis and rugby, whose relevance could be reviewed every decade or so.

Also what needs consideration is the impact the sport asks of the organising city. Something like Baseball stadia is ridiculously irrelevant for most cities across the world - I think even London would have struggled justifying even a major temporary venue for it. Sydney's was quickly saved and reinvented as a Showground and occasional AFL venue... meanwhile the Melbourne Ballpark, which was built in 1990 in anticipation of hosting 1996, sits rusting in the suburbs and now faces demolition. But thats another story...Wrestling is flexible, and can be held in convention centres, theatres, arenas, etc...

[Sir Rols]

I agree with you 100 per cent on tennis (though it was my favourite event in London), golf and baseball. Olympic sailing, though, is a whole different egalitarian kettle of fish compared to the billionaires' play fest of the America's Cup.

Also what needs consideration is the impact the sport asks of the organising city. Something like Baseball stadia is ridiculously irrelevant for most cities across the world - I think even London would have struggled justifying even a major temporary venue for it. Sydney's was quickly saved and reinvented as a Showground and occasional AFL venue... meanwhile the Melbourne Ballpark, which was built in 1990 in anticipation of hosting 1996, sits rusting in the suburbs and now faces demolition. But thats another story...Wrestling is flexible, and can be held in convention centres, theatres, arenas, etc...

It's interesting how baseball is just a novelty here, and not very popular, even though we've done quite well at it and won medals at the games.

[zekekelso]

Not much of a loss? It's one of the Olympics core ancient sports. It's on par to removing any component of T&F like discus. Bring it back, or it sets a bad precedent.

We've removed many events from Track and Field / Athletics. Are the Olympics worse for not having a standing broadjump? We've ditched many "original" Olympic events. Do you want to add chariott races and running in heavy armor?

The quesion I have for anyone who insists wrestling must be included: Have you ever bought a ticket to an Olmypic wrestling match? Ever spend an afternoon watching wrestling? Ever even watched one single match in its entirety?

[zekekelso]

The crux of it is that a sport like Baseball won't be drastically impacted by Olympic exclusion - however Wrestling, whose existence has largely been formed by the Olympics, would be dealt a serious blow.

Also what needs consideration is the impact the sport asks of the organising city. Something like Baseball stadia is ridiculously irrelevant for most cities across the world

If a sport needs the Olmypics to exist, is it really a sport that deserves to be in the Olypmics?

Baseball and softball are played on fields with a modest number of stands. As such, venues can be easily transformed to other uses, or simply and cheaply dismantled. None of the previous baseball venues become burdonsome white elephants. There are many knocks against baseball in the Olympics. But this isn't one of them.

[FiveRingFever]

We've removed many events from Track and Field / Athletics. Are the Olympics worse for not having a standing broadjump? We've ditched many "original" Olympic events. Do you want to add chariott races and running in heavy armor?

The quesion I have for anyone who insists wrestling must be included: Have you ever bought a ticket to an Olmypic wrestling match? Ever spend an afternoon watching wrestling? Ever even watched one single match in its entirety?

I have gone to around 20 Olympic wrestling sessions and have been to 2 U.S, wrestling trials. I also have seen Olympic softball and baseball, and I don't give a crap about squash. I think wrestling belongs in comparison to the other two sports in terms of tradition, international participation, and relatively low logistical demands. I don't think it's even close for that matter. The problem with wrestling really was its governing body. They seem to have gotten their heads out of their rear ends and made a lot of necessary changes, so I would be surprised not to see them back in 2020.

[TheOtherRob]

And that strikes me as a waste of everyone's time. Wasn't this process sold as a means to freshen up the sports program, shake things up a bit?

[ofan]

And that strikes me as a waste of everyone's time. Wasn't this process sold as a means to freshen up the sports program, shake things up a bit?

Ya but we all know the IOC are f/cking idots.

[Faster]

That's the unfortunate part. I would think that most people would have loved to see squash included, especially over one of the other racket sports (looking at table tennis and badminton). But unfortunately wrestling is there and should be included.

[FiveRingFever]

And that strikes me as a waste of everyone's time. Wasn't this process sold as a means to freshen up the sports program, shake things up a bit?

So, you would rather follow up one poor decision with another?

[zekekelso]

That's the unfortunate part. I would think that most people would have loved to see squash included, especially over one of the other racket sports (looking at table tennis and badminton). But unfortunately wrestling is there and should be included.

I don't think anyone (other than a few squash players) *want* to see squash included. Oh, sure, given a choice between squash and badminton, squash might win. But a sport should have something going for it other than "better than badminton."

Whether we want to admit it or not, the Olympics are about attracting spectators. (Practically) nobody watches squash.

[ofan]

I don't think anyone (other than a few squash players) *want* to see squash included. Oh, sure, given a choice between squash and badminton, squash might win. But a sport should have something going for it other than "better than badminton."

Whether we want to admit it or not, the Olympics are about attracting spectators. (Practically) nobody watches squash.

Regardless, squash is way more exciting to watch than wrestling.

[Athensfan]

We've removed many events from Track and Field / Athletics. Are the Olympics worse for not having a standing broadjump? We've ditched many "original" Olympic events. Do you want to add chariott races and running in heavy armor?

The quesion I have for anyone who insists wrestling must be included: Have you ever bought a ticket to an Olmypic wrestling match? Ever spend an afternoon watching wrestling? Ever even watched one single match in its entirety?

Yes. Two separate sessions.

That's the unfortunate part. I would think that most people would have loved to see squash included, especially over one of the other racket sports (looking at table tennis and badminton). But unfortunately wrestling is there and should be included.

Agreed. Golf and modern pentathalon must go as well. I can't believe the IOC is so obtuse that they don't recognize which sports are dead weight.

[intoronto]

Elite in terms of the salaries many professional players receive. A sport like wrestling doesn't receive anywhere near that kind of exposure. This is why the Olympics are so much more important for these sports - the likes of Tennis, Golf, Sailing, Baseball etc... while I enjoy some of them at an Olympic level, are the disposable sports IMO, as they are by virtue of their own existence elite, wealthy sports, that have major events and championships that exist outside the Olympics (eg/ Wimbledon/ Masters/ America's Cup/ World Series....)

The crux of it is that a sport like Baseball won't be drastically impacted by Olympic exclusion - however Wrestling, whose existence has largely been formed by the Olympics, would be dealt a serious blow. Thats not even considering the fact that it embodies Olympic history. But it seems like they're getting that message across, as it appears likely that Wrestling will remain.

Im not sure if the IOC has one, but I think some sports that date back to 1896, and have roots to the Ancient Olympics, should be a permanent fixture of the Olympics. So there would be core sports that are integral to the culture of the Olympics - and then second tier sports like tennis and rugby, whose relevance could be reviewed every decade or so.

Also what needs consideration is the impact the sport asks of the organising city. Something like Baseball stadia is ridiculously irrelevant for most cities across the world - I think even London would have struggled justifying even a major temporary venue for it. Sydney's was quickly saved and reinvented as a Showground and occasional AFL venue... meanwhile the Melbourne Ballpark, which was built in 1990 in anticipation of hosting 1996, sits rusting in the suburbs and now faces demolition. But thats another story...Wrestling is flexible, and can be held in convention centres, theatres, arenas, etc...

100% agree with what you said.

This is why putting golf on the program was a boneheaded decision

[Athensfan]

100% agree with what you said.

This is why putting golf on the program was a boneheaded decision

Agreed!

[intoronto]

The International Olympic Committee announced a new grouping of Olympic sports for the purposes of the distribution of Olympic revenues to international federations, at a joint meeting of its Executive Board and that of the Association of Olympic International Federations at the SportAccord convention in St Petersburg, yesterday.

Being group A the federation with the largest revenues share, and group E the group with the smaller revenues share, Shooting was elevated from group D up to group C.

The new ranking of existing Olympic sports for revenues share is as follows:

Group A
aquatics; athletics; gymnastics
Group B
basketball; cycling; football (soccer); tennis; volleyball
Group C
Shooting; archery; badminton; boxing; judo; rowing; table tennis; weightlifting
Group D
canoe/kayak; equestrian; fencing; handball; (field) hockey; sailing; taekwondo; triathlon, wrestling
Group E
modern pentathlon; golf; rugby sevens.

IOC proposed to ASOIF this new groups after evaluating sports according to six criteria. Each criteria was assigned a different weight:

• TV (the television audiences that each sport attracted during the games): 40
• Internet (the number of internet page views and social media mentions): 20
• General public (favourite sports, according to a survey): 15
• Spectators (ticket requests in the host territory): 10
• Press (number of favourable press articles): 10
• Universality (number of national federations): 5

The validity of this methodology was guaranteed by CIES, the International Centre for Sports Studies in Lausanne, as IOC authorities explained.

“Shooting was previously ranked in Group D. After the last evaluation our sport has been moved up into Group C. This means that the efforts of the ISSF to improve its visibility on TV and Internet were successful, and that Shooting is becoming more and more popular among sport fans.” ISSF President Olegario Vazquez Rana said.

“We welcome this positive news with great pleasure. Our aim is to keep on improving the status of Shooting on the international panorama.” Secretary General Franz Schreiber said. “The ISSF is doing things right in the fields of management, media and promotion, and this positive news proves it.”

Interesting

[Faster]

I think many of us dislike golf, but I do not think it will stop golf from being a success as a sport in the Olympics.

If you look at the Olympic program only a handful of sports get regular national television coverage in North America. Basketball, gymnastics, football (soccer), tennis, cycling and golf.

[runningrings]

We've removed many events from Track and Field / Athletics. Are the Olympics worse for not having a standing broadjump? We've ditched many "original" Olympic events. Do you want to add chariott races and running in heavy armor?

The quesion I have for anyone who insists wrestling must be included: Have you ever bought a ticket to an Olmypic wrestling match? Ever spend an afternoon watching wrestling? Ever even watched one single match in its entirety?

I'm referring to a sport like Wrestling which was one of the original Ancient sports, and that has made an appearance at every Olympics, except Paris 1900 (due to World's Fair organisational issues). Obviously your mention of chariot racing is irrelevant because it was never in the 1896 revival, nor is it a current amateur sport - so I'm not exactly sure you have a point there. You can't deny that the Olympics are an event that is unique, and part of its grandeur rests on its traditions and heritage - something like Wrestling (and Boxing, discus, etc..) are part of this heritage which is why I think they should receive virtual immunity.

As asking wrestling supporters if they've ever "brought a ticket to a wrestling match" - what a silly question.. not to mentioned a flawed argument for many circumstantial reasons: The Olympics ticketing is ballot distributed - people pretty well get what they're given, and when they do, they're happy and grateful. This isn't just like buying a ticket to a regular league sport in season. If I could, I would see wrestling in person. And yes, I've watched Olympic wrestling as much as the Australian broadcast allowed. But this is why it belongs in the Olympics - it is in integral part of what makes the Olympics unique. Reality is that like any economy, some sports are going to have to depend on the external commercial success of others.

In the Winter Olympics, Ice Hockey arguably is the money shot sport, it contributes to the existence of the entire event. You couldn't expect something like Curling to be able to generate as much income, and it depends on the collective interest of other sports. However, this doesn't mean that Curling doesn't belong.

If we followed your logic, the Summer Olympics would consist of Swimming, Track, male only professional team sports, Tennis and Golf.

Edited June 2, 2013 by runningrings

[runningrings]

If a sport needs the Olmypics to exist, is it really a sport that deserves to be in the Olypmics?

Baseball and softball are played on fields with a modest number of stands. As such, venues can be easily transformed to other uses, or simply and cheaply dismantled. None of the previous baseball venues become burdonsome white elephants. There are many knocks against baseball in the Olympics. But this isn't one of them.

How can you seriously say that? It requires a unique configuration, and even based on the London experience temporary stadia is still costly.

"Modest number of stands" - this is the Olympics, and for its duration the requirement was at least 10,000 seated. That is still a big deal, even for a temporary solution. Given that Baseball has a limited global appeal outside North America - I think its pretty fair claim to say that it is a burden on organising committees, at least compared to Wrestling which is extremely versatile.

"None" of the previous baseball stadiums are white elephants? Not quite. Barcelona's was the first costly example and immediately underused; Sydney's just had a costly redevelopment to make it more practical as a sometimes AFL stadium/Showground; Athens is completely abandoned and facing demolition, and Beijing's was temporary, but even an admittedly (by organisers) a costly venue post-Games (removed a few years later).

[Texas]

The Olympics are usually about seeing the best athletes in the world competing. The fact that Baseball/Softball made it this far is not surprising, but they will not beat Wrestling for an Olympic spot, although it may be an issue if a Baseball loving nation like Japan wins the 2020 bid followed up by an American bid in 2024. Olympic Basketball, Olympic Tennis and Olympic Ice Hockey have millionaire pro athletes playing each other. If you saw Spain vs. USA in the finals of Men's Basketball, you saw at least 20 NBA players in the game (all of the Team USA Players plus about 6 or 7 Spaniards). The Men's Medalists in Tennis were Andy Murray, Roger Federer and Juan Martin del Potro. Federer and Murray are two of the best in the World. The Women's Tennis Medalists were Serena Williams, Maria Sharapova and Victoria Azerenka, three of the best female tennis players in the world. Ice Hockey would be filled with NHL players (the gold medal game in Vancouver was basically the Canadian NHLers vs. the American NHLers).

Olympic Baseball would be like Olympic football: devoid of the best players in the world. That alone will prevent baseball from an Olympic return. If Baseball does return, The United States, Venezuela, The Dominican Republic and Puerto Rico would have to fill their rosters with minor leaguers, leading to dominance by the Cubans and Japanese (who would use players from their pro Nippon League). If baseball returns to the Olympics and The United States somehow hosts in 2024, nobody is going to watch and the baseball stadium in that host city could be near empty, especially if you have a Team USA filled with has beens or nobodies.

[stryker]

Have either Tokyo, Istanbul, or Madrid mentioned where each of the potential new sports might be held? Seems like squash could be done just about anywhere. I would imagine Tokyo would host baseball at the Tokyo Dome.

[baron-pierreIV]

baseball will NOT return.

[Athan]

For the 2012 bid, Madrid had proposed two baseball/softball venues. One of them was Cerro del Telégrafo in Rivas-Vaciamadrid (http://goo.gl/maps/p0gfP), approximately 1 hour by metro from the city centre, and the other was the Elipa Park (http://goo.gl/maps/uZkNI), which is close to Las Ventas, Palacio de Deportes and Retiro Park.

As for squash, I think it could be held in one of the IFEMA pavillions or in the nearby Juan Carlos I Park. Another possiblity could be somewhere in the city centre to get some photogenic shots, just like they're doing with beach volleyball, which is what the International Federation seems to like the most.

Anyway, as far as I know, neither Madrid nor the other candidates have said anything about the possible new sports.