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Will the USOC bid for 2020?


alphamale86

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I was going to post this as a reply in another Thread but I didn't want the discussion to divert from that one, so I decided to create a Topic for it.

Do you think the USOC will bid for 2020?

Now we all know they said they won't but for some reason I feel that some signs are showing that they are considering it. It's actually quite remarkable that we are even hearing anything because they were so adamant about not bidding for a long time after the IOC snub of Chicago 2016 and now we are getting quotes like "but officials previously haven't ruled out a bid"

Thoughts?

Do you think they will? or not?

Do you think they should? or not?

Do you think they have a realistic shot? or not?

and most importantly WHY?

let's get some full responses here.

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:mellow: The USOC probibly feel slighted being voted down with New York for the 2012 bid and virtually thrown out with Chicago '16 bid. Sad because the USA can put on a great games and have, untill recently, been a safe pair of hands.

The IOC for it's part, looks at a nation's track record and this includes the more broader world stage. You will have to admit the United States has lost a little bit of it's luster over the last five years or so...

The Salt Lake City bribery scandal that rocked the IOC at the turn of the century is still fresh in the minds of many. New York was seen as a sympathy bid, still a good candidate though, but 2012 put up a surprising good bunch of super cities. Chicago was seen in a totally different light...The Blago affair showed up Illinois rather 'shakey' political scene, a major factor in securing the most prestigious multi-sport event in the world.

The only other states that could put up a sutiable candidate would be Texas, Florida, New York, and at a real stretch (economically), - California. Which sadly is the place where Olympic Games seem best for the US.

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You know what, along with the fact it might spice these boards up, it mightn't be such a bad idea.

Baron said in another thread, when I questioned the financial appetite for another bid:

It appears they have big pockets lined up. I'm guessing Jerry Jones and Mark Cuban have promised ample funds; maybe Texas Instruments (based there) and American Airlines (even tho United is the USOC sponsor) also.

If they're willing to go for it, it might be worth a go. Could USOC put Dallas forward, not necessarily expecting much, just to keep their eye in? It might help continue to build relationships, show USOC are still happy to play the game (getting back on the horse straight away), and line up a 2024 bid quite nicely (assuming a European city wins 2020).

I know there's only patchy evidence that warm-up bids work, and Dallas wouldn't want to be seen as that, but would the benifits outweigh the problems, especially if the bid is privately funded by individuals knowing what they're leeting themselves in for?

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It's everyone else but the USOC speculating. The line: "but officials previously haven't ruled out a bid" is from the Dallas write-up; so that's the reporter's speculation and/or the naive Dallasites' wishful thinking.

Besides, the new financial arrangements between the USOC and IOC haven't been firmed up -- altho they're hoping to cement that this month after the 4 Games' networks' bids and just before the July 4th meet in Durban.

However the question of time still remains. After July 11th, there really is only like 50 days before the Sept 1st deadline. It took more than 2 years in the last 2 rounds to vett and prime the candidates, NYC and Chicago for 2012 and 2016 -- in a very thorough and analytical process...and then all of a sudden, in a matter of 3 weeks, they will present another candidate?? :blink: I don't think so.

Besides, I, as well as the USOC, am very aware that the Americas are lumped together in most of the Euro-IOCer's minds as one continent...therefore the idea of a US City following Rio...NOT unless 80 IOC'ers will be openly declaring their love for that idea in Durban, has very little chance of happening especially after a historic Mediterannean city, which has the backing of 4 infuential IOC members, has declared its Opening gambit boldly.

Finally, and I know certain posters here blindly and stubbornly believe they can will the USOC's moves in considering ONLY a summer bid -- I believe there already have been a lot of prep talks for the next Winter candidate, which has better chances than a 2020 summer bid.

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I sort of think Rob has a point. I wouldn't expect Dallas to win, but it gets difficult to deny a superpower too many times in a row. A very polite "squeaky-wheel-gets-the-grease" scenario might pay off sooner rather than later.

Baron -- yes, following Salt Lake, I would prefer to see American Summer Games before American Winter Games mainly because I think this country needs Summer Games relatively soon to keep them engaged in the Olympic Movement. A successful Winter bid would seriously postpone another Summer hosting.

As I have said before, if there were an APPEALING American candidate for 2022 I would (albeit somewhat reluctantly) support it. The problem is that the appealing candidates all have big problems: Denver (history), Anchorage (lack of will), Lake Placid (insufficient size/infrastructure), Lake Tahoe (insufficient size/infrastructure).

I do not like Reno and I don't think Reno is worth the postponement of the next American Summer Games. Please stop saying that I'm militantly opposed to any U.S. bid for the Winter Games. I'm just militantly opposed to RENO.

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As I have said before, if there were an APPEALING American candidate for 2022 I would (albeit somewhat reluctantly) support it. The problem is that the appealing candidates all have big problems: Denver (history), Anchorage (lack of will), Lake Placid (insufficient size/infrastructure), Lake Tahoe (insufficient size/infrastructure).

That's it, exactly. Because there are NO OTHER viable Winter contenders, that doesn't mean the USOC should pass up a chance just because it doesn't have a mini-Paris as the host city. You have the problem...NOT Reno. And you don't really have to go to or watch a Reno Games if it happens. You have the choice.

I also disagree with your assertion that w/o a Summer Games, the US will lose Olympic interest. Not so. Regardless of where a SOG will be held, there is always that core constituency of summer-sports enthusiasts (academia, families of the summer athletes) who will follow the Games wherever.

In terms of keeping the average American's Oly intersts alive, the best chance...and where the IOC and advertisers' would get the best bang for their buck is with the Winters. The TV viewership nos. for Salt Lake have yet to be topped!! And the USOC and ALL U.S. sports profit from continued financial success of the USOC.

I do not like Reno and I don't think Reno is worth the postponement of the next American Summer Games. Please stop saying that I'm militantly opposed to any U.S. bid for the Winter Games. I'm just militantly opposed to RENO.

That is quite apparent. But you don't offer any alternatives. You are merely content to sit and stew on your dislike for a certain town...in the meantime, a chance for the USOC to earn more funds for its OVERALL program has gone by.

And say, the USOC thinks like you...to hold off its winter constituents in the hopes of a summer hosting...I don't think it will happen sooner than 2032 with or w/o a Reno 2022. If it happened 1996 - 2002; I don't see why it can't happen on a 2022 - 2032 basis as well?

It's up to you to sit it out or go with the program for the bigger picture of overall, greater benefit to the U.S. sports movement...even though it may not be your tenderloin cut of the steak.

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Baron -- check out my post in the other thread.

I do hear you. Honestly.

The question is whether 2022 would really benefit the Olympic Movement in the U.S. more than waiting until 2032 -- if indeed it proved to be that long (which it very well might).

Because I think the Summer Games are so much more popular in the U.S., I think they could be worth the wait.

I'm not just being stubborn. I genuinely believe that waiting for a SOG is in the U.S.' best interests.

I would love to offer an alternative to Reno for 2022, but at this point I can't. To me that doesn't say we should put Reno forward. Isn't that sort of "candidacy by default" rather than "we really believe in this bid and we can't wait to welcome the world to this great American city"?

I really don't want Reno to become the winter equivalent of Atlanta. Baron, I know you have warm memories of Atlanta. I wasn't there and I don't want to take anything away from your experience (I get irritated when people make complaints about Athens). It is true, however, that generally Atlanta is regarded among the IOC as the weakest edition of the Summer Games in recent memory. We don't want something similar with Reno. If we're going to go for a winter bid, it needs to be a quality bid. If we can't find a quality bid, then we should wait. I really think that is what would be best for the future of the American audience and the Olympic movement.

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I really don't want Reno to become the winter equivalent of Atlanta. Baron, I know you have warm memories of Atlanta. I wasn't there and I don't want to take anything away from your experience (I get irritated when people make complaints about Athens). It is true, however, that generally Atlanta is regarded among the IOC as the weakest edition of the Summer Games in recent memory. We don't want something similar with Reno. If we're going to go for a winter bid, it needs to be a quality bid. If we can't find a quality bid, then we should wait. I really think that is what would be best for the future of the American audience and the Olympic movement.

Tell ya a story. At the 25th anniversary dinner of LA-84 in July 2009, when the event was breaking up and I was approaching the VIP tables to get Uebe to sign my copy of his autobiography, I saw and overheard Anita deFrantz telling then USOC Chairperson, Stephanie Streeter (is that her name?): You know we were really shocked by the win! (Atlanta's win in Tokyo.) (Of course, Anita and Jim Easton would be greeted by an equally seismic shock at how things played out in Copenhagen 3 months later.)

You know, many people (those like you) don't have to be locked into staying in Reno proper. I am sure maybe 1/3rd of all prospective 2022 attendees would stay around Tahoe, South Tahoe, even Sacramento, and NOT even come within sniffing distance of Reno city limits. (And if it were Denver vs. Munich, I would bet on Munich.) But there needs to be a closeby anchor metropolitan area...and it just happens to be Reno. And one just deals with it. And you could be sitting out for a good 20-30 years with or without a nice WOGs snuck in there.

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Tell ya a story. At the 25th anniversary dinner of LA-84 in July 2009, when the event was breaking up and I was approaching the VIP tables to get Uebe to sign my copy of his autobiography, I saw and overheard Anita deFrantz telling then USOC Chairperson, Stephanie Streeter (is that her name?): You know we were really shocked by the win! (Atlanta's win in Tokyo.) (Of course, Anita and Jim Easton would be greeted by an equally seismic shock at how things played out in Copenhagen 3 months later.)

You know, many people (those like you) don't have to be locked into staying in Reno proper. I am sure maybe 1/3rd of all prospective 2022 attendees would stay around Tahoe, South Tahoe, even Sacramento, and NOT even come within sniffing distance of Reno city limits. (And if it were Denver vs. Munich, I would bet on Munich.) But there needs to be a closeby anchor metropolitan area...and it just happens to be Reno. And one just deals with it. And you could be sitting out for a good 20-30 years with or without a nice WOGs snuck in there.

Cool story. Thanks for sharing that. Yeah, it was Stephanie Streeter.

If the 2022 were in Reno, of course I'd go. It's not me I'm worried about -- it's the rest of the international community. Will they know they should stay somewhere outside the city? or will they say, why did we fly halfway around the world for THIS?

I hope you're right about Munich, but if 2020 goes to Europe, the IOC could feel like they're doing the US a favor by going to Reno instead.

We're already guaranteed to wait 20 years after Atlanta. If you are right and we could have both 2022 and 2032 or even 2036, I would say "go for it." I'm really not confident that it would work out that way, though. It seems more probable that there will be 20-30 year gaps between every American Games -- regardless of whether they're summer or winter.

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I think Denver will be a formidable challenger if and when they decide to bid for the Winter Games. Yes, there's the negative history of the 1976 bid, but that was almost 40 years ago. A Denver bid would include exceptional alpine venues and a mid-major U.S. city with modern infrastructure and a history of hosting large events. Most of the IOC members today were not members in the 70s, and I'm sure Denver and the USOC would make the necessary guarantees before the bid even gets off the ground. The big question is whether the residents of Denver and Colorado are interested in hosting--I'm sure people in Vail and Beaver Creek would jump at the chance to host, but they need the support from Denver as well.

I'd prefer that the U.S. host a Summer Games before another Winter Games, but the Winter Games probably need a boost in the U.S. much more than the Summer Games right now.

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Most of the IOC members today were not members in the 70s, and I'm sure Denver and the USOC would make the necessary guarantees before the bid even gets off the ground. The big question is whether the residents of Denver and Colorado are interested in hosting--I'm sure people in Vail and Beaver Creek would jump at the chance to host, but they need the support from Denver as well.

Yes, and can you be sure that the older IOC members, even those gone, have not passed on the "curse of Denver" to the younger, newer IOC members? They are human and they do talk and gossip and bear grudges. I'd wait maybe 50 years before presenting Denver again and with a rock-solid agreement that they will NOT embarrass the IOC again. And you can only imagine that any Olympics-opponents in Denver will always have the upper-hand in any revived Denver bid.

Just found this article: http://www.realvail.com/blog/108/Denver-2022-Winter-Olympic-bid-only-makes-sense-if-it-comes-with-mountain-rail Apparently, there are really big infrastructure hurdles to overcome. And I don't think the Feds are going to invest $20 billion on some mountain light-rail lines for upper-income people who can essentially afford to fly to COlorado and ski. Which is why I think Denver is a heavy no-go. Reno-Tahoe can do it w/o a $20 billion investment.

Here's essentially the crux of the article:

Harry Dale, an engineer and former telecommunications project manager who’s now a Clear Creek County commissioner and president of the Rocky Mountain Rail Authority (RMRA), agrees. The only reason he thinks Colorado should even consider such a bid is if it results in a massive influx of federal funds to build a mountain rail system.

“You’ve got to come up with a plan that is going to be able to move people effectively, and I don’t think just shutting the highway down and running buses is much of a plan,” said Dale, who helped build the video distribution network prior to the Salt Lake City Winter Olympics in Utah in 2002.

Having just completed a grueling high-speed rail feasibility study examining the possibility of such a system along the Interstate 70 and Interstate 25 corridors in Colorado, Dale noted Salt Lake City not only landed funds for highway improvements, but also built light rail and some commuter rail as a result of the Games.

Colorado voters in the 1970s rejected the Winter Olympics after the International Olympic Committee had already awarded Denver the 1976 Games, in part because of the massive tax burden and a perceived lack of infrastructure funding to accommodate huge Olympic crowds and the subsequent development.

As a result, Denver may have cost itself a shot at not only the 2018 Winter Olympics, which the United States Olympic Committee decided to forego in order to focus on a failed 2016 Chicago Summer Olympics bid, but some observers say it lost any realistic hope of landing any future Games.

“The fear in ’76 was, ‘Well, we’re not going to get any money for infrastructure and it’s going to place this huge demand on us, so why would we want [the Olympics]?’” Dale said. “And I would say 2022 is the same way. If you’re not going to get $20 billion for infrastructure, don’t do it. You’ve got to walk away with something.”

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I think Barcelona might be right. American WOGS would probably help the IOC in the short term more than an American SOG. I'm not so sure that would hold for the long term, though.

Out of curiosity, aren't these statements about transportation in the mountains every bit as valid for Reno as they are for Denver? I'm not totally up to speed on their proposed plan, but as near as I can tell, Reno would be looking at shutting down roads and creating Olympic bus lanes too.

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Out of curiosity, aren't these statements about transportation in the mountains every bit as valid for Reno as they are for Denver? I'm not totally up to speed on their proposed plan, but as near as I can tell, Reno would be looking at shutting down roads and creating Olympic bus lanes too.

Fishing...fishing.

The Reno area isn't quite as heavily populated as I think the Denver-Beaver Creek - Vail (or is it Aspen) corridor that that guy speaks about. Therefore, there is much greater density in the Denver areas to be affected. Plus, Denver has the curse of 1976 hanging over its head. You can be sure a number of IOC'ers will vote for whichever is the other bid just to spite Denver. It'd be absolutely stupid to put Denver up. They (the IOC'ers) are a tight-knit and spiteful lot. Uhmmmm, FIFA anyone?

I think there are at least 2 ways around the lake - highways running north and south of the lake.

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I'm not talking about '76. Obviously that's a problem for Denver.

I'm only addressing the infrastructure (specifically transportation) issues. If a tram/light rail/train network is deemed a necessity and therefore a deal-breaker for Denver, why isn't that the same kind of problem for Reno?

Yes, Denver is more densely developed, but the distances to the mountain venues would also be shorter than they would be for Reno. Don't those scenarios cancel each other out?

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I'm not talking about '76. Obviously that's a problem for Denver.

I'm only addressing the infrastructure (specifically transportation) issues. If a tram/light rail/train network is deemed a necessity and therefore a deal-breaker for Denver, why isn't that the same kind of problem for Reno?

Yes, Denver is more densely developed, but the distances to the mountain venues would also be shorter than they would be for Reno. Don't those scenarios cancel each other out?

I don't think Reno is hoping for any of that light-rail development the Denver guy wants. Why should they when the population of Reno-Tahoe is much, much lower than the Denver-Aspen-Vail-etc. areas.

Besides, Denver has the big curse on its shoulders and even a few very vocal environmentalists can just send some strongly-worded emails to the IOC and there goes that bid. Of course, you will say, well won't that happen too for Reno? Yeah, but at least they haven't been burnt before as they were with the ungrateful city that now wants a second chance. "Fooled me once, shame on you. Fooled me twice, shame on me."

Let's just agree to disagree and see how this thing plays out over the next few years.

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I think you might be misunderstanding me. I totally get that '76 is a big problem. I'm not pushing for Denver. Nor am I trying to make Reno look bad. This is JUST about transportation.

I agree that a mountain transport network would provide greater long-term benefit to a more developed city. The Denver guy seems to think the IOC will require (perhaps unofficially) a light rail network in the mountains. Is he saying the IOC want that from ANY winter host (including Reno)? Or is he saying that DENVER would want a light rail network in order to get their money's worth out of the Games?

I figured if someone could shed some light on Reno's transportation planning it could help put the Denver guy's comments in context.

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I agree that a mountain transport network would provide greater long-term benefit to a more developed city. The Denver guy seems to think the IOC will require (perhaps unofficially) a light rail network in the mountains. Is he saying the IOC want that from ANY winter host (including Reno)? Or is he saying that DENVER would want a light rail network in order to get their money's worth out of the Games?

I think that's it. Of course, that's a highly exorbitant, unrealistic dream considering that California, the most populous state in the Union, can barely get its high-speed bullet train plans off the ground; and here he is going to ask the Feds for $20 billion for a few upscale, mountain resorts that are watering holes of the wealthy and well-heeled? A total pipe dream.

Check Reno's website. I don't know that they're there yet with solid transport plans. I don't think they are even there with their venue plans. So if that's not more or less firmed up, you can't have transport plans yet. But hey, the West Coast's had 4 Olympics already, plus lessons from SLC and Vanc, should put them in good stead.

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I think Anchorage should bid again at some stage. It could use a new arena or two. Perhaps a speed skating oval turned convention center. Maybe a new football stadium too. It would be hard to sell the ski jumps and sliding track, but I do suppose it doesn't hurt to have a training center further north.

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I think Anchorage should bid again at some stage. It could use a new arena or two. Perhaps a speed skating oval turned convention center. Maybe a new football stadium too. It would be hard to sell the ski jumps and sliding track, but I do suppose it doesn't hurt to have a training center further north.

Anchorage? And what? Have Sarah Palin sticking her nose in there? :blink: Fuggedaboutit.

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Anchorage? And what? Have Sarah Palin sticking her nose in there? :blink: Fuggedaboutit.

But Palin would be president by that time, and no other state is as good at using Federal dollars on a per capita basis than Alaska, so why not slip in a few billion to the last frontier state? :P

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I grew up in Denver and love Colorado, but I just don't think it's a great place for the Olympics. The mountains are just too far away, and forget building rail all the way up I-70 to Vail/Beaver Creek. I'm also quite familiar with Anchorage and Lake Placid. Anchorage is too remote and seriously lacking in infrastructure. Lake Placid has the venues but not the roads, hotels, and proximity to a major airport. I would think that Reno is the best option.

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If the USOC gets serious about 2022, I'd bet Salt Lake will throw its hat in the ring again. That would truly be the best option as all of the venues are in place (especially the bobsled/luge track, which is the most expensive to build and is least useful after the Games). Yes, Salt Lake has the negative history of the bid scandal, but the Games were hugely successful and very well-organized in the end. I just don't see much need for a third set of winter venues in the U.S.--Lake Placid and Salt Lake provide more than adequate facilities for the USA's top winter athletes.

I would love to see a Lake Placid bid, but they just don't have the infrastructure to make it work.

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^_^ Isn't it amazing what happens on a Winter Olympics thread when you mention the word "Denver" <_<
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Denver Vs Reno Lake Tahoe could be very interresting, There were few month ago I read an article about Portland bid? Is it realist or false news?

I would like to see WoG but Also SoG in USA during the next decade, it could be possible?

WoG in 2022 and SoG in 2028 or SoG in 2020 and WoG in 2026 ?

I think the difficult to Lake Tahoe is than California has already host 3 games and the diffucult to Denver is 1976 bid... After each bid have some difficult but lot of avantages and I think is the same for both bid. Denver is a big city and it could have a lack of atmosphere like in Turin, and Reno isn't the winter city who people imagine (casino Atmosphere), there is a lack of mountains spirit... But afer the strong points are Ski resorts Vail, Aspen to Denver, Squaw valley, kirkwood... to Reno... But the bid could be very strong and win easly a race.

I the best case I would like see Denver in 2022, Reno lake tahoe in 2030 and SoG in USA in 2024 :P

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