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Oh, please! Say it ain't so!

I still think Munich can beat anybody. There's been such a long drought of German Games. They're a sports powerhouse. They definitely have the know-how and the venues.. Plus, they're getting a raw deal with the Eurozone crisis.

;)

No need to worry. To tell the truth, a German or Swedish WOGs would be the closest I can get to having the chance to attend a “home” winter games, with plenty of relatives to stay with and in the absence of any chances for Oz or NZ.

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Oh please, such biased idiocy from Athensfan whose stupid SUMMER USA dream will not come true in the NEXT 40 years!!.... /\ Reno is a trend-starter in global political movements of conscience!! Th

For 2022 I'm quite sure that Europe will make it. It's the very fist time that there are 3 consecutive winter games not held in Europe with Vancouver in NA and Sochi and PC in Asia (sure Sochi is part

It has been explained to you COUNTLESS times already "why", but you, just like your "pathetic" lost brother Tulsa, REFUSE/WON'T listen. And what's most "pathetic" of all, is that you're suppose to be

If Toulouse were to bid, then they would be a tough competitor.

A poster suggested it would have to be the Alps BUT that offers nothing new. With games in Chamonix, Grenoble, and Albertville, the legacy question would be asked. Nice lost its chance with so many winning sea to shore winners in Vancouver, Sochi and Pyeongchang.

With 5 indoor arenas required (2x Icehockey, Figure Skating, Speedskating, Curling) sadly the worthy small bidders like Ostersund struggle to provide post usage plans

Toulouse has the following advantages:

Size

A population of 850,000 with a huge student population of 97,000, any village could be used for student housing, and there would be no difficulty in post games usage, whether conversion into other use, or being used by existing sports teams

Infrastructure

An international airport with 2x 3,000m runways, a local city metro of trams and buses and high speed rail links being planned

A sporting culture

France's greatest rugby club, a major football team with a stadium being upgraded to over 40,000+ seats for Euro2016 (so opening ceremonies covered. Indoor sports need to be better catered for and the games would be a catalyst for this.

Alpine events

Use Saint Lary-Soulan. One of the biggest ski resorts in the Pyrenees, 125km from Toulouse airport (which is closer than Vail is from Denver, La Molina from Barcelona etc)

It has a vertical drop of 865m. I have snowboarded there and it is big enough for all alpine events including snowboarding as well as Nordic events. It is very accessible from Toulouse down the E80/A64 and even the last few miles are used to heavy traffic as it is a traditional Tour de France stage with the huge fan numbers that gets.

If the French IOC bid and Toulouse was the candidate, they could offer all the requirements and pitch it as something old (an alpine nation) and something new (the Pyrenees being used so a new mountain range) There would be legacy as the both the Midi-Pyrenees and Languedoc-Roussillion regions would support the further development of a world class ski resort to compete with the Alpine areas.

Toulouse may not be a major winter city but the Pyrenees can be seen from the city, and as a potential bidder it does have a great deal going for it.

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Zaragoza is about to withdraw its bid for the 2022 WOG. It will be oficially announced in the following days.

the problem with Zaragosa is distance to the Alpine events. Jaca is about 150kms and then the actual resorts are another 70-80km. It is simply too great

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the problem with Zaragosa is distance to the Alpine events. Jaca is about 150kms and then the actual resorts are another 70-80km. It is simply too great

your data are totally wrong... there has been a deep research is this forum about a possible Zaragoza's bid. It has been proved that, with adequate and reasonable works, the transport system could reach the one in Vancouver 2010. You can look for this research in a topic called "Zaragoza Winter Games" or something similar.

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your data are totally wrong... there has been a deep research is this forum about a possible Zaragoza's bid. It has been proved that, with adequate and reasonable works, the transport system could reach the one in Vancouver 2010. You can look for this research in a topic called "Zaragoza Winter Games" or something similar.

Actually it is not.

No matter what research people want to do on this site the facts of geography are this

Zaragoza airport to Jaca is 142km = FACT

Jaca to Candanchu is at least 30km = FACT

and it has to be Candanchu resort as there must be an 800m vertical drop for FIS downhill events = FACT

Vancouver to Whistler is 130km. It was already a heavily used route before it was even updated for 2010.

The issue Zaragoza has had has always been distance from the alpine events. That's why it was Jaca 2014, but then this was rejected because they wanted to have the ceremonies in Zaragoza. There is also a difficulty in speeding up and shortening travel distances unless they want to dig through 50miles of mountain

Jacques Rogues has already told a proposed Oslo-Lillehammer bid that the 185km distance between the locations (Kvitjell)is too great despite the already planned high speed rail link up the Hamar valley

So you'll find my data is in fact not totally wrong. Maybe check before criticising.

p.s I would love Zaragoza to be a host but the geographical challenges are too much

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Actually it is not.

No matter what research people want to do on this site the facts of geography are this

Zaragoza airport to Jaca is 142km = FACT

Jaca to Candanchu is at least 30km = FACT

and it has to be Candanchu resort as there must be an 800m vertical drop for FIS downhill events = FACT

Vancouver to Whistler is 130km. It was already a heavily used route before it was even updated for 2010.

The issue Zaragoza has had has always been distance from the alpine events. That's why it was Jaca 2014, but then this was rejected because they wanted to have the ceremonies in Zaragoza. There is also a difficulty in speeding up and shortening travel distances unless they want to dig through 50miles of mountain

Jacques Rogues has already told a proposed Oslo-Lillehammer bid that the 185km distance between the locations (Kvitjell)is too great despite the already planned high speed rail link up the Hamar valley

So you'll find my data is in fact not totally wrong. Maybe check before criticising.

p.s I would love Zaragoza to be a host but the geographical challenges are too much

Now your distances are OK.

However you are wrong again with Candandu. The vertical drop doesn't consist on having a look to the highest and the lowest point of the ski resort. I go every winter to Candachu (and many other Spanish ski resorts) and I can assure you that Candanchu can not host that alpine events.

About distances, here you have the real comparison:

vancouver-zgz2.jpg

I am sorry because it is in Spanish, but i hope that you can understand the main idea.

I have much information about a future Zaragoza's bid, even a Bid Book with more than 70 pages of studies and proyects. I can give you more information if you are interested.

Edited by skicross
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The thing is, does the French NOC even have the gusto & energy to go ahead with another Winter bid so soon after the dismal showing of Annecy 2018. I seriously doubt it. I think they're going to lie-low for awhile (like the USOC has) & regroup & think what kind of strategy (if any) they'll take in the near future. Not to mention, is the city of Toulouse even interested.

While the Pyrenees hasn't hosted a Winter Olympics, & any Winter bid coming from the region would have that "new mountain range" angle, France has still hosted the Winter Olympios 3 times already. I'd still say Spain would have the edge in that category, since they've never hosted a Winter Olympics. Thing is there, too; is the Spanish NOC even interested anymore in a Winter bid. Seems they're all gung-ho with another Summer Olympics than a Winter one. Which IMO, their efforts are being wrongly focused. Since compared to their other Western European neighbors, they have hosted the Summer Games most, most recent.

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Which IMO, their efforts are being wrongly focused. Since compared to their other Western European neighbors, they have hosted the Summer Games most, most recent.

Obviously, the Madrilenos and the Castilians dominate the Spanish NOC--so they are only focused on Madrid and not much else that their whole country could offer.

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Now your distances are OK.

However you are wrong again with Candandu. The vertical drop doesn't consist on having a look to the highest and the lowest point of the ski resort. I go every winter to Candachu (and many other Spanish ski resorts) and I can assure you that Candanchu can not host that alpine events.

About distances, here you have the real comparison:

vancouver-zgz2.jpg

I am sorry because it is in Spanish, but i hope that you can understand the main idea.

I have much information about a future Zaragoza's bid, even a Bid Book with more than 70 pages of studies and proyects. I can give you more information if you are interested.

I would be interesting if you can provide a link to it.

However to host the Winter Olympics you need a Vertical drop of 800m for the mens'downhill.

No drop, no downhill, no games - this is why Quebec has had to bail

If Candanchu can't host than I cannot see which resorts around Jaca could?

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The thing is, does the French NOC even have the gusto & energy to go ahead with another Winter bid so soon after the dismal showing of Annecy 2018. I seriously doubt it. I think they're going to lie-low for awhile (like the USOC has) & regroup & think what kind of strategy (if any) they'll take in the near future. Not to mention, is the city of Toulouse even interested.

While the Pyrenees hasn't hosted a Winter Olympics, & any Winter bid coming from the region would have that "new mountain range" angle, France has still hosted the Winter Olympios 3 times already. I'd still say Spain would have the edge in that category, since they've never hosted a Winter Olympics. Thing is there, too; is the Spanish NOC even interested anymore in a Winter bid. Seems they're all gung-ho with another Summer Olympics than a Winter one. Which IMO, their efforts are being wrongly focused. Since compared to their other Western European neighbors, they have hosted the Summer Games most, most recent.

You could say the USA had hosted the Winter Olympics 4 times in 1932, 1960, 1980 and 2002.

As France last held the Winter Olympics in 1992 then 30 years is quite a break. When looking at the potential competitors there are issues.

Munich has significant oppostion around Garmish who don't want it.

All the Swiss bids would have to pass local referendums (a repeat of Denver 1976?)

Ostersund with a population of 60,000 - could they provide the legacies.

After two possibly high risk games in Sochi and Pyenochung, a traditional location might be preferred.

Annecy 2018 was almost an after thought and really didn't think of legacy just recycling a number of existing venues.

Spain is throwing all its weight behind Madrid 2020.

And climatically the better more consistent snow in the Pyrenees is considered to be on the north side of the range.

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I would be interesting if you can provide a link to it.

However to host the Winter Olympics you need a Vertical drop of 800m for the mens'downhill.

No drop, no downhill, no games - this is why Quebec has had to bail

If Candanchu can't host than I cannot see which resorts around Jaca could?

I will try to upload it. However, the whole document is in Spanish...

I know in depth the mountain area around Jaca and I have talked with some professionals about the downhill vertical drop.

Nowadays, there are ski resorts around Jaca, which can offer a slope with that vertical drop. But that is not the most important aspect, because the International Federations were checking the resorts and stated that the track has to combine some other fundamental requierements for a WOG, such us enough slope, velocity, safetiness, adequate arrival area for spectators and media...

There is a ski resort in Aragon, which can offer all that, Cerler. However, it is quite far away and the project would be much weaker and unfeasible.

The point is that around the ski resorts of Jaca, there are zones that provide the vertical drop but the creation of a downhill track has not been planned yet. In other words, it is necesary to develop a research around the existing ski resorts to determine the best posible location for that track.

This should be the starting point (and not just trying to locate the downhill track in a existing resort as Cerler, which is what Zaragoza 2022 pretended to do).

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You could say the USA had hosted the Winter Olympics 4 times in 1932, 1960, 1980 and 2002.

As France last held the Winter Olympics in 1992 then 30 years is quite a break. When looking at the potential competitors there are issues.

Munich has significant oppostion around Garmish who don't want it.

All the Swiss bids would have to pass local referendums (a repeat of Denver 1976?)

Ostersund with a population of 60,000 - could they provide the legacies.

After two possibly high risk games in Sochi and Pyenochung, a traditional location might be preferred.

Annecy 2018 was almost an after thought and really didn't think of legacy just recycling a number of existing venues.

Spain is throwing all its weight behind Madrid 2020.

And climatically the better more consistent snow in the Pyrenees is considered to be on the north side of the range.

Any & all bids always have their "issues". So it's not France wouldn't have any their own. So in essence, they all wash each other out mainly during a campaign race, & it then mainly hinges on the geopolitics & where ideally in the end the IOC would much prefer to go.

And while, yes, Spain is throwing all it's weight behind Madrid 2020, that still doesn't say anything what they would do if that effort falls short yet again. Which also brings me back to my initial remark; is Toulouse &/or the French NOC even interested in pursuing a 2022 bid. Since thus far, there are no signs of any of the parties that would need to be involved raising any interest, let alone a bid.

And the U.S. hosting 4 Winter Olympics already is neither here nor there. Considering when it's North America's "turn" to host the Winter Games all they have is Canada to contend with. While France has at least half-a-dozen, or so, of it's European neighbors to deal with.

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I really think that 2022 is going to go to a traditional European destination. After Sochi and Pyeongchang, it's time.

Considering the fact that Germany is shouldering most of the burden of the European economic crisis, considering the technical strength of Munich's plan, considering that Germany hasn't hosted since 1972, I think they're the odds-on favorite -- assuming they bid. The issues in Garmisch are not insurmountable and I think they'll lose steam in the next few years.

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I really think that 2022 is going to go to a traditional European destination. After Sochi and Pyeongchang, it's time.

Considering the fact that Germany is shouldering most of the burden of the European economic crisis, considering the technical strength of Munich's plan, considering that Germany hasn't hosted since 1972, I think they're the odds-on favorite -- assuming they bid. The issues in Garmisch are not insurmountable and I think they'll lose steam in the next few years.

Munich is a very strong option and candidate city. They have the size, the heritage, the locations but there was an increasing fall in popular support and a number of landowners in Garmish refused all important access to their private land under the NoOlympia banner as the games would be 5x larger than the World Championships. There was also concern about snowfall and the need to use artifical snow.

Switzerland's issue is that any winning bid would then need a public referendum to approve venue construction. Sweden's issue is the lack of size of any major city nearby, and then the lack of easy transport links beyond flying from Gothenberg and Sweden.

A Nice bid (and they have indicated a strong interest) is the fact the sea to snow concept will have been done 3 times in a row.

Which is why Toulouse - who have previously discussed holding an Olympic event (youth or otherwise) could be a decent candidate. Though a distance from alpine events, infrastructure is already in place.

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A Nice bid (and they have indicated a strong interest) is the fact the sea to snow concept will have been done 3 times in a row.

For me, it's not really the problem.

The main concern is the connection between the city of Nice (ice sports center, main Olympic Village, IBC / MPC) and the alpine zone:

accessibility, infrastructure of transport, travel time ... that would require "Pharaonic" works (in a protected national park).

Plus, the construction of a second bobsleigh/luge track in the French Alps while the first one is already under used (and I do not even mention the one in Cesana Pariol/Torino 2006).

Which is why Toulouse - who have previously discussed holding an Olympic event (youth or otherwise) could be a decent candidate. Though a distance from alpine events, infrastructure is already in place.

About Toulouse, why not ... although, for me, the city seems too far from the Pyrénées. In this way, Tarbes-Pau-Lourdes seems more "realistic"...

In any case, I think we can forget a French bid for 2022.

In Europe, Munich is a very good option so I hope they will bid again.

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About Toulouse, why not ... although, for me, the city seems too far from the Pyrénées. In this way, Tarbes-Pau-Lourdes seems more "realistic"...

In any case, I think we can forget a French bid for 2022.

In Europe, Munich is a very good option so I hope they will bid again.

On a separate post the issues of a Toulouse bid for the Olympics and distances have been discussed.

Denver is 97miles from Vail and is considered a strong candidate

Toulouse is 93miles from Saint-Lary-Soulan by road and there is a regular train service to Lannemezan. 77miles are down the A64/E80 motorway, a Class A European route.

Toulouse is also 87miles from another potential area of Bagneres-de-Luchon. There is a direct train into this town from Toulouse, a small airfield that could be upgraded for comuter aircraft and 62miles are down the same motorway.

Bagneres-de-Luchon and Saint-Lary-Luchon are also connected and are about 25miles apart.

As with a Munich, there could be two Olympic villages, one for the skiing/snow events and one for the ice events. It is not too dissimilar to Vancouver/Whistler

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Denver is 97miles from Vail and is considered a strong mediocre candidate

Reno is only about 45 miles from the slopes on the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe--the CLOSEST of all prospective 2022 candidates!!

Reno-Tahoe unveil their new website: http://www.renotahoewintergames.org/ in preparation for the SECRETS OF THE OLYMPIC CEREMONIES website debut on 11-11-11!! :lol:

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Reno is only about 45 miles from the slopes on the Nevada side of Lake Tahoe--the CLOSEST of all prospective 2022 candidates!!

Reno-Tahoe unveil their new website: http://www.renotahoewintergames.org/ in preparation for the SECRETS OF THE OLYMPIC CEREMONIES website debut on 11-11-11!! :lol:

The trouble with Reno is image - it simply appears very trashy and over commercialised more so even than Las Vegas. It could easily be the Tackiest games ever

It would make Atlanta96 the paragon of restraint.

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It could easily be the Tackiest games ever

It would make Atlanta96 the paragon of restraint.

What does a town's appearance have to do with the gorgeous slopes 45 minutes away or the hot competition inside the arenas? :blink:

Anything, if packaged correctly, can be made acceptable.

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