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That it incredibly naive. The English FA blew the whistle on FIFA corruption. Did they get the World Cup in 2018? No, they were kicked out immediately in the first round as a backlash even though FIFA agreed to clean up their act.

So basically there was a corruption scandal and then under US laws the Salt Lake bid were told they did nothing wrong. So the global movement was embarassed yet nobody found guilty?

All the members of the IOC vote for the games location .... I think you are being a bit naive if you don't think it will have an impact - blowing the whistle and then saying actually we didn't do anything wrong.

No, I am NOT naive at all. U r the naive party.

1. Everybody (all the bids) was doing it. The IOC themselves knew that. You forget that the whistleblower was Marc Hodler from (r u Swiss?) Switzerland. It was your own Switzerland that got punished: Sion '06 bid of 1999 was summarily trounced.

2. Yet despite what you say, Salt Lake won overwhelmingly on the first round. So please explain your wallowing in this "SLC having a devastating effect on US chances." If so, then why does the IOC will still take US money? If that's not the height of hypocrisy, then I don't know what it is. And also, then why did Samaranch refuse to come to the US and testify when he was subpoeaned? Because like most IOC leaders, he was a damn coward.

Without the US' own Justice Dept which brought the charges up against the two SLC men in the first place, then the IOC would NEVER have cleaned house as it did. You don't look at that, do you?

A lot of it is politics (which you don't seem to realize), but at the end of the day, the IOC will still come around, knocking at the US' door for money. Without US $$, the Olympic movement will collapse.

I can rebut you until the cows come home, so you better quit while you're ahead. ;)

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Oh please, such biased idiocy from Athensfan whose stupid SUMMER USA dream will not come true in the NEXT 40 years!!.... /\ Reno is a trend-starter in global political movements of conscience!! Th

For 2022 I'm quite sure that Europe will make it. It's the very fist time that there are 3 consecutive winter games not held in Europe with Vancouver in NA and Sochi and PC in Asia (sure Sochi is part

It has been explained to you COUNTLESS times already "why", but you, just like your "pathetic" lost brother Tulsa, REFUSE/WON'T listen. And what's most "pathetic" of all, is that you're suppose to be

No, I am NOT naive at all. U r the naive party.

1. Everybody (all the bids) was doing it. The IOC themselves knew that. You forget that the whistleblower was Marc Hodler from (r u Swiss?) Switzerland. It was your own Switzerland that got punished: Sion '06 bid of 1999 was summarily trounced.

2. Yet despite what you say, Salt Lake won overwhelmingly on the first round. So please explain your wallowing in this "SLC having a devastating effect on US chances." If so, then why does the IOC will still take US money? If that's not the height of hypocrisy, then I don't know what it is. And also, then why did Samaranch refuse to come to the US and testify when he was subpoeaned? Because like most IOC leaders, he was a damn coward.

Without the US' own Justice Dept which brought the charges up against the two SLC men in the first place, then the IOC would NEVER have cleaned house as it did. You don't look at that, do you?

A lot of it is politics (which you don't seem to realize), but at the end of the day, the IOC will still come around, knocking at the US' door for money. Without US $$, the Olympic movement will collapse.

I can rebut you until the cows come home, so you better quit while you're ahead. ;)

Remind us how well the New York 2012 and 2016 bids did?

The IOC need American money? The Olympic movement will collapse without it? .... I think you'll find the new wealthy nations of China, Russia, and the oil rich nations of the Middle East will completely disagree, and would step in.

Keep rebutting

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Remind us how well the New York 2012 and 2016 bids did?

It was known those would fail...because as you said...the USOC did not "throw a temper tantrum" then and participated. You're what's known as beating a dead horse. Surely, you have more worthwhile things to do??

The IOC need American money? The Olympic movement will collapse without it? .... I think you'll find the new wealthy nations of China, Russia, and the oil rich nations of the Middle East will completely disagree, and would step in.

Keep rebutting

Oh yeah, no kiddng? What is the TV deal that comes closest to the $4.3 billion paid by NBC for Games 2014-16-18 and 20?

Today's TOP sponsors:

(5 non-US companies): Acer - Taiwanese, Atos - Swiss/French, Samsung - Korean; Panasonic - Japanese, Omega- Swiss

Six - Coca-Cola, Dow, GE, McDonald's, Proctor & Gamble, Visa - six (6) US companies. Six from ONE country vs. 5 from 4 different countries (only the Swiss have 2 companies there). Where are your "...China, Russia and oil-rich nations" there, huh? Huh?

And even if they don't give the US the games -- been there; done that - 8 times more than any OTHER nation -- we'll still take most of the gold home anyway; 2,552 medals as of last count anyway.

Furthermore, to show you how NEEDY-GREEDY the IOC is for U.S. money, not only are they dissatisfied with what they already get from U.S. networks and other companies, but they also want to muscle in on the 12.75% and 20% share of what the USOC takes from the NBC/TOP sponsors' monies paid to the IOC -- which the USOC needs in order to survive since it does not get gov't funds to operate. The USOC needs those 1 or 2% percentage points it is going to give up, MORE than the IOC needs them. But NO, the IOC will bleed even the USOC's limited streams of income to death BECAUSE ITS SURVIVAL is dependent on US money. How else can one explain that UBER-AGGRESSIVE move of the IOC resulting in only a few percentage points for them.

What say you? :P

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The IOC need American money? The Olympic movement will collapse without it? .... I think you'll find the new wealthy nations of China, Russia, and the oil rich nations of the Middle East will completely disagree, and would step in.

Without resorting to large print here.. kernowboy, yes the IOC NEEDS American TV money. They're not going to get that from other nations because there's no market for it. China may have spent $40 billion on the Olympics in 2008, but how much of that went directly into the IOC's bank account? The IOC isn't getting much benefit from the Bird's Nest sitting there largely unused (and all the money that it generates from tourists doesn't go to the IOC either). So even if these countries have money, it's not like they're spending it on the Olympics. That's exactly what the United States is doing and it's happening without them even having an Olympics here for at least another decade. So until another nation (or nation) starts to offer up the kind of money that companies and networks in the United States are paying, the IOC is going to continue to rely on the good old U-S-A, regardless of whether or not there's another Olympics here anytime soon.

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Do you really think that if the USA networks walked away the cash cow Olympics could not replace that money?

American coporations require international markets and would look at the new economies expanding in Brazil, India, China etc

You think Visa, Coca-Cola, McDonalds will walk away from the Olympics if they are not held in the US. America is a saturated market, the rest of the world especially Asia, Africa, Latin America is virgin territory.

Could a reason the IOC are apparently greedy is not because they are needy, but because those existing deals are no longer as good as the ones they can get on the open market?

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Do you really think that if the USA networks walked away the cash cow Olympics could not replace that money?

American coporations require international markets and would look at the new economies expanding in Brazil, India, China etc

You think Visa, Coca-Cola, McDonalds will walk away from the Olympics if they are not held in the US. America is a saturated market, the rest of the world especially Asia, Africa, Latin America is virgin territory.

Could a reason the IOC are apparently greedy is not because they are needy, but because those existing deals are no longer as good as the ones they can get on the open market?

Yes, that's exactly what I think. Back in 2003, the IOC managed to extract $2 billion from NBC. This year, in a bad economy, they got well over $4 billion out of them. Where exactly would they turn to replace that money? How much are countries like China (even with over a billion people) and others going to pay in television rights? I forget what the percentage is, but US television money is a very significant portion of the IOC's revenue. If that money starts to dry up, it's not like they can go to someone else and ask for more. I've argued for a while that the IOC could be in trouble if ratings and interest in the Olympics in the United States starts to fade, but their recourse to that won't be that sponsors in other countries save them. Instead, they'll be begging the United States to host an Olympics to keep their cash cow healthy. Obviously a lot can change (and probably will) over time, but right now, we're not even close to that point yet.

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if Zaragona won the Spanish nomination it could be an interesting bid

- Its a strong winter sports following

- A number of indoor facilities

- the mountain unlike Barca's bid has a big enough mountain at 900m

- Jaca is Spain's winter capital.

- Its transport infrastructure is sufficently well developed.

- they have learnt from Jaca 2014

- they are hosting a number of non-sporting international events

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That's what Spain should really focus on is a Winter bid. Instead of incessantly trying to get another Summer Olympics so soon, when their other Western European neighbors are still waiting after decades. Plus, the Winter Olympics are cheaper to host & they would have an edge as far as the Pyrenees have never hosted the Winter Games before.

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I thought the Spanish Olympic Committee had already announced Barcelona/Jaca would go for 2022. Or has Madrid 2020 put that on the backburner?

It appears that there are more "verano-ites" in the Spanish OC than there are "invierno-ites." Besides, the other one is Barcelona-based, so over the dead-body of the Castilian Mardilenos, I guess.

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Do you really think that if the USA networks walked away the cash cow Olympics could not replace that money?

American coporations require international markets and would look at the new economies expanding in Brazil, India, China etc

You think Visa, Coca-Cola, McDonalds will walk away from the Olympics if they are not held in the US. America is a saturated market, the rest of the world especially Asia, Africa, Latin America is virgin territory.

Could a reason the IOC are apparently greedy is not because they are needy, but because those existing deals are no longer as good as the ones they can get on the open market?

Sigh! I don't quite buy the old “we pay for it all, so we expect payback” argument, either. But when it comes to broadcast rights, that's possibly fair enough. The US TV market is by far the biggest single pot-of-gold provider for the IOC, and it's hard to see any other country's national broadcast rights bringing in such revenue in the forseeable future. But, while of course it would help the likes of NBC to have games awarded in convenient time zones for prime time, that - of course - is not something that cannot ever be guaranteed. And anyway, NBC do get a lot of payback in being able to influence when events get scheduled during the day for Olympics outside the western hemisphere time zone.

The TOP sponsors are a bit more problematic. Yes, half of them may be US companies, but unlike the broadcast rights-holders who get involved for their domestic market, the TOP members are all in it because they're global companies looking to extend global reach and branding. It's easy enough to replace, say, a US IBM with a European ATOS-Origin because TOP sponsors are not so beholden by the need to serve a domestic market. They're not in it to shore up their domestic markets – they're in it to boost their global reach and their shareholders' bottom lines. And anyway, the USOC does very well in getting their split of the payback from the TOP riches, whether they're from the US or not.

If you are looking at the US domestic sponsorship market, the USOC doesn't mind looking elsewhere for their monies anyway – as witnessed by the USOC signing up BMW.

One argument I've never understood or accepted is the old “if we don't get more USA hostings, the US public is going to lose interest, stop watching and then you'll all be sorry”. Lame and patronising!

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The winter Olympics are much more about tradition and sporting prowess then the summer games when it comes to hosts. Only Yugoslavia has hosted without any kind of tradition and Spain is unlikely to get needed votes over Sweden, Norway, Germany or Austria.

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if Zaragona won the Spanish nomination it could be an interesting bid

- Its a strong winter sports following

- A number of indoor facilities

- the mountain unlike Barca's bid has a big enough mountain at 900m

- Jaca is Spain's winter capital.

- Its transport infrastructure is sufficently well developed.

- they have learnt from Jaca 2014

- they are hosting a number of non-sporting international events

Well, Zaragoza is about to withdraw from the 2022 race.

Zaragoza could make a really good bid, but it needs a real support from the Spanish adn the regional government (not just words).

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Well, Zaragoza is about to withdraw from the 2022 race.

Zaragoza could make a really good bid, but it needs a real support from the Spanish adn the regional government (not just words).

Pity because La Molina lacks the vertical drop that FIS demands as its only 745m while the Jaca resorts are 900m

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The best Spanish bid would of course be the Sierra Nevada if there could be a guarantee of snow. They've held FIS World Cup races and the World Championship in 1996 and the Sierra Nevada Ski Resort has a vertical drop of 1200m

Nearby is the city of Granada is only 17miles away so could hold the necessary skating events and Malaga is about 80miles further.

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Pity because La Molina lacks the vertical drop that FIS demands as its only 745m while the Jaca resorts are 900m

I am not so sure that you can find a 900m vertical drop at the current ski resorts arround Jaca (I have a flat in Jaca and i go there to ski very often).

It would be easy to find that vertical drop, but a new ski resort would be needed.

The best Spanish bid would of course be the Sierra Nevada if there could be a guarantee of snow. They've held FIS World Cup races and the World Championship in 1996 and the Sierra Nevada Ski Resort has a vertical drop of 1200m

Nearby is the city of Granada is only 17miles away so could hold the necessary skating events and Malaga is about 80miles further.

This has been discussed for a long time. Granada can only offer Sierra Nevada, just one sky resort to host a large amount of different events in 2 weeks...

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The best Spanish bid would of course be the Sierra Nevada if there could be a guarantee of snow. They've held FIS World Cup races and the World Championship in 1996 and the Sierra Nevada Ski Resort has a vertical drop of 1200m

Nearby is the city of Granada is only 17miles away so could hold the necessary skating events and Malaga is about 80miles further.

+ Granada is hosting the 2015 Winter Universiade.

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Well, Zaragoza is about to withdraw from the 2022 race.

Zaragoza could make a really good bid, but it needs a real support from the Spanish adn the regional government (not just words).

Is the Spanish government not supporting any Spanish winter bid? Do you think they might be more supportive after the 2020 race?

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Rule in life: Never say NEVER...unless you're Peter Pan. ;)

Go way back to 1992. France got Albertville 1992 because the summer was denied to Paris. That was the first of the Winter consolations. Plus, what bolster's the US' position for 2022 (whether it be Ready-to-go-Reno or Denver-is-a-dud) is that the previous NBC package of $4.3 billion expired with 2020. So with a U.S. host for 2022, the TV rights could be sky-high for the NEXT 2 or 4 Games. Conceivably, the IOC could see 5.7 or even $6 billion for Games 2022-28 with a U.S. host there starting off that next round.

I think though in terms of both the TV deal and indeed the Olympics as a whole a summer games in the US in 2024 is of more value to the US than the Winter games in 2022, especially as them hosting the Winter Olympics in 2022 effectively rules out 2024 and 2028 for the Summer Games (though LA 2032 would be on!).

BTW, has anything been suggested yet by the IOC to mark the centenary of the Winter Games in 2024?

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Is the Spanish government not supporting any Spanish winter bid? Do you think they might be more supportive after the 2020 race?

Not much..

In fact, as someone said before, Granada is hosting the 2015 Winter Universiade but the Spanish Government has cancelled the 10 million euros subsidy.

Is the own goverment/Spanish Olympic Committee the one who claims that Spain needs to develop its winter sport infraestructure and improve its performance in international competitions. However, they dont not involve themselves to reach that target..

The High-Perfomace Center of Jaca has also been cancelled.

Spain should support with facts, not only with words, the development of the winter sports in the country.

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Not much..

In fact, as someone said before, Granada is hosting the 2015 Winter Universiade but the Spanish Government has cancelled the 10 million euros subsidy.

Is the own goverment/Spanish Olympic Committee the one who claims that Spain needs to develop its winter sport infraestructure and improve its performance in international competitions. However, they dont not involve themselves to reach that target..

The High-Perfomace Center of Jaca has also been cancelled.

Spain should support with facts, not only with words, the development of the winter sports in the country.

That's too bad. I hope Spain bids for the winter games soon. They would add so much colour to the 2022 race.

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In my mind, 2022 should be ripe for a WOG in traditional winter sport climate and culture after two consequitive exotic games in Korea and Sochi. Furthermore, I think 2022 should be staged in Europe since the last time would be in 2006. (Sochi does not count in my mind, it is on the border to Asia or even, according to some geographers, Russians in particular, located in Asia.) After all, it is in Europe the interest for winter sports are highest and most of the medals won.

What priorities IOC makes could of course be a different story.....

Sorry it was Central Switzerland

St Moritz/Davos are still in BUT they are now talking of holding some events in Zurich but there is a concern the proposal is becoming way too fragmented.

Trondheim would be better than Tromso because it would simply be much cheaper and would have a usable legacy

1) There already is a skijumping / nordic facility at Granasen

2) They have a 30,000 seat stadium used by Norways leading football team Rosenberg for the opening ceremony

3) They have two leading indoor teams in Ice Hockey and Handball who could use two of the areas.

4) They have a rapidly expanding university who can use the Olympic village post games

5) They are a leading area for speed skating in Norway so the track would not be a white elephant

6) The downhill site is Norways biggest (?) ski resort so has the facilities.

7) They have enough hotel rooms and an international airport capable of B767/A330 operations

Tromso would be hugely more expensive ... and what would they do with the facilities are the games? If they are temporary where is the legacy? Ostersund in Sweden has the same problem. What sports teams will use the empty arenas?

The problem with Swiss bids is that any major public expenditure requires a public referendum .. the they have a habit of rejecting these bids. That is why Berne had to withdraw in 2010 because the public voted against it and why Zurich hasn't even bothered.

Munich would be a great choice if the Garmish issues can be resolved, but Trondheim would be a new Olympic contender venue with a clearly defined post games legacy.

I agree with your arguments for Trondheim, that is where I now live after some years in Oslo. Not sure what the Norwegian NOC is thinking, though. The process is much more closed this time, and I fear they end up with Oslo-Lillehammer, which I do not think will stand any chance internationally.

I think it was written somewhere that Åre is closer to Trondheim than Oppdal. That is not true, but still, a trans-national Trondheim-Åre games would be a great idea, if it were allowed....

In any case, Åre-Östersund would probably need to use some of the infrastructure of the Trondheim area, just as a Trondheim bid could benefit from all the hotel beds and appartments in Åre, which is the largest alpine resort of Scandinavia.

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In my mind, 2022 should be ripe for a WOG in traditional winter sport climate and culture after two consequitive exotic games in Korea and Sochi. Furthermore, I think 2022 should be staged in Europe since the last time would be in 2006. (Sochi does not count in my mind, it is on the border to Asia or even, according to some geographers, Russians in particular, located in Asia.) After all, it is in Europe the interest for winter sports are highest and most of the medals won.

What priorities IOC makes could of course be a different story.....

I agree with your arguments for Trondheim, that is where I now live after some years in Oslo. Not sure what the Norwegian NOC is thinking, though. The process is much more closed this time, and I fear they end up with Oslo-Lillehammer, which I do not think will stand any chance internationally.

I think it was written somewhere that Åre is closer to Trondheim than Oppdal. That is not true, but still, a trans-national Trondheim-Åre games would be a great idea, if it were allowed....

In any case, Åre-Östersund would probably need to use some of the infrastructure of the Trondheim area, just as a Trondheim bid could benefit from all the hotel beds and appartments in Åre, which is the largest alpine resort of Scandinavia.

I do not think Oslo would be crippling to the Norwegians, but Trondheim certainly offers a new experience to help mitigate the redunancy of a third Norwegian OWG.

And yes, the process is going to be less politically influenced this time (the Norwegian NOC wants another games) but that does not mean Oslo is going to get the go-ahead. Norwegians with influence want another games and rumors I have heard is that the Royal House has gotten involved, as they did with the successful Lillehammer bid.

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