Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Zakopane does not have existing courses laid out that are FIS suitable. Along with surprisingly strict Polish environmental laws it is a no go. Krakow is 2 and a half hours away. A distance to far. Poland is out of the picture unless there are mountains closer to Krakow that would get FIS approval and their development comply with Polish environmental laws.

Quebec City doesn't even have a vertical drop long enough but is constantly mentioned as a somehow-viable candidate. If Zakopane has the geography, creating a course in the near future should not be a problem.

And explain why Krakow needs to be so close? Pyeongchang is, even by high speed rail, over an hour from Seoul, where most athletes would presumably arrive.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 870
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Oh please, such biased idiocy from Athensfan whose stupid SUMMER USA dream will not come true in the NEXT 40 years!!.... /\ Reno is a trend-starter in global political movements of conscience!! Th

For 2022 I'm quite sure that Europe will make it. It's the very fist time that there are 3 consecutive winter games not held in Europe with Vancouver in NA and Sochi and PC in Asia (sure Sochi is part

It has been explained to you COUNTLESS times already "why", but you, just like your "pathetic" lost brother Tulsa, REFUSE/WON'T listen. And what's most "pathetic" of all, is that you're suppose to be

Seoul isn't hosting anything, though. All that is going to be, is just a point of entry. PyeongChang & Gangneung (where all the Ice events are going to be held) is where all the Olympic action is going to take place. Krakow to a Zakopane bid would be what Gangneung is to PyeongChang. So it would be the distance between these two points, respectively.

Seoul isn't hosting anything, though. All that is going to be, is just a point of entry. PyeongChang & Gangneung (where all the Ice events are going to be held) is where all the Olympic action is going to take place. Krakow to a Zakopane bid would be what Gangneung is to PyeongChang. So it would be the distance between these two points, respectively.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, I understand that Gangneung will be hosting some events, but why does a WOG suddenly (post-Nagano) absolutely need to be in a larger city, or have a larger, big-brother city near the snow venues, for hockey and figure skating arenas? It's not as if Zakopane couldn't contain ice facilities. It's about the same size as Lillehammer and larger than Albertville.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, the Games of Albertville & Lillehammer weren't exclusively 'contained' in those towns. Albertville was spread out virtually all over the Savioe & Haute Savioe Departments. And Lillehammer was shared to about 5 different Norwegian towns in the province (or whatever they call them there) where Lillehammer is located.

Haven't read much about Lillehammer other than what a good show the Norwegians put on, but Albertville was highly criticized by atheletes & spectators alike on how those French Games were so spread out. And that also served as a big negative in Annecy's initial 2018 bid by the IOC preliminary evaluation, that it was too spread out all over Savioe like Albertville was. So they made big revisions & made the bid much more compact, but it was still going to be Annecy with Chamonix.

Now that they Winter Games are getting bigger, it makes it that much easier to accommodate in bigger areas. Since not only do you have to house the venues, but you also have to house the athletes & the spectators along with the media. Huge demand that makes it much more challenging for much smaller communities nowadays.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been given strong indications that the NOC's from Norway, Sweden, Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria and Ukraine want to bid (Germany and Ukraine already having government support). Now it is just down to political will to go with the will of the various NOCs.

As for Bulgaria. It is slowly improving and could be a very strong candidate the next time the games go east of the Danube. As for Sarajevo, Bosnia is in no place to host.

Bulgaria's issue is the venue distance they need to reduce that. Also, their winter sport tradition looks to be in a decline (they didn't win a medal in Vancouver first games since 1994 to do so.

Norway? thats new I though they were fine with the 2016 WYOG.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, the Games of Albertville & Lillehammer weren't exclusively 'contained' in those towns. Albertville was spread out virtually all over the Savioe & Haute Savioe Departments. And Lillehammer was shared to about 5 different Norwegian towns in the province (or whatever they call them there) where Lillehammer is located.

Haven't read much about Lillehammer other than what a good show the Norwegians put on, but Albertville was highly criticized by atheletes & spectators alike on how those French Games were so spread out. And that also served as a big negative in Annecy's initial 2018 bid by the IOC preliminary evaluation, that it was too spread out all over Savioe like Albertville was. So they made big revisions & made the bid much more compact, but it was still going to be Annecy with Chamonix.

Now that they Winter Games are getting bigger, it makes it that much easier to accommodate in bigger areas. Since not only do you have to house the venues, but you also have to house the athletes & the spectators along with the media. Huge demand that makes it much more challenging for much smaller communities nowadays.

Okay, but assuming the Lillehammer games are a gold standard, and there are plenty of places in the region around Zakopane to which venues can be spread out, and assuming that the winter games can't have become THAT much larger in the last 17 years, there has to be a chance for Zakopane.

I mean, few debate that comparatively microscopic St. Moritz would be able to mount a superior bid...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, but assuming the Lillehammer games are a gold standard, and there are plenty of places in the region around Zakopane to which venues can be spread out, and assuming that the winter games can't have become THAT much larger in the last 17 years, there has to be a chance for Zakopane.

I mean, few debate that comparatively microscopic St. Moritz would be able to mount a superior bid...

Again though, doesn't change the fact that Albertville was very critique for being too spread out & why Annecy's intial 2018 spread out plan was not received well at all by the IOC preliminary evaluation panel.

So you're suggesting Zakopane should come out with such a spread out plan too, because Lillehammer may have faired better. While the Games may not have gotten that much bigger in the last 20 years, they have still gotten bigger nonetheless. And even St. Moritz now is talking about a joint bid with Davos, since obviously they can't do it alone anymore since when they last hosted it some 60+ years ago.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Plus, I'm sure I'm not alone with this sentiment either, but what makes the Olympic Games so special too, is that you have the whole world coming together in ONE place. And once you start too spread everything too thin, then all it becomes it just a whole bunch of "world championships" being held all over the place. That's when it would start to dimish that Olympic "appeal". Certainly what Albertville was criticised for, too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think larger locations necessarily make anything less spread out. Maybe they are no longer as spread out as Albertville, but clustering seems largely unavoidable. If PC's claim that everything is within 30 minutes is true, and doesn't lead to transport bottlenecks, great. But geographically, those games ARE spread out into various clusters. Ditto Vancouver - Whistler was an hour+ away from the city (Munich would have had the same issue). And despite the fact that a larger city could have theoretically concentrated venues, some in Vancouver, like the Richmond Olympic Oval, were located far from the downtown core, because cities are also crowded places and it's hard to find contiguous land for numerous ice venues that will make sense to retain far into the future.

Obviously the preference is for clusters of venues, which is the only realistic option even for larger host cities. Annecy failed to learn this and remained too spread out a bid. There's nothing stopping a Zakopane bid from clustering venue locations rather than strewing them among nearby villages, though - if anything, smaller towns have more freedom to do this than hemmed-in urban areas.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Norway? thats new I though they were fine with the 2016 WYOG.

Well, after the success with the 2011 World Ski Championships in Oslo there seems to be a lot of interest to bid for the Winter games soon, and it seems like people are most interested in having Oslo be the bidding city. It's going to be interesting to see if it's only talk or if they are actually serious. The sports federations in Norway are interested at least, according to this article from NRK. (Unfortunately only in Norwegian)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, after the success with the 2011 World Ski Championships in Oslo there seems to be a lot of interest to bid for the Winter games soon, and it seems like people are most interested in having Oslo be the bidding city. It's going to be interesting to see if it's only talk or if they are actually serious. The sports federations in Norway are interested at least, according to this article from NRK. (Unfortunately only in Norwegian)

Baron is Oslo wins they will have a 50,000 seat ski stadium :lol:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, but assuming the Lillehammer games are a gold standard, and there are plenty of places in the region around Zakopane to which venues can be spread out, and assuming that the winter games can't have become THAT much larger in the last 17 years, there has to be a chance for Zakopane.

The Winter Games actually have grown a lot since Lillehammer. The 1994 Games had 1,730 athletes and 61 medal events. The 2010 Games had 2,600 athletes and 86 medal events. It would be very difficult for Lillehammer to host today--there are just too many athletes, officials, and media involved for such a small town. In 1994, most of the spectators had to stay in Oslo and take a train to Lillehammer for the events. I think any future bids from Norway will have to be made with Oslo as the host city--anything else is too small.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Trondheim is large enough. You really only need about 150,000. And the Norwegian government is more likely to support Trondheim then Oslo because of regional considerations.

Out of Norway, Sweden and Switzerland, I honestly think Norway will host first. Norweigans are much more pro-active, are much more likely to support a bid and despite Norway's political apathy, Norwegians do not shy away from major expenditures and national prestige projects unlike their Swedish neighbours and the Swiss. Plus Norway is in a far better position financially then pretty much any country in Europe. A SWF of 560 billion and government prudence does that for you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Trondheim is large enough. You really only need about 150,000. And the Norwegian government is more likely to support Trondheim then Oslo because of regional considerations.

I don't think so. Not after the extremely successful Ski world championships that were held in Oslo this year, where the venues were sold out every single day, and 50.000 to 100.000 people attended the medal ceremonies in the Oslo city center every evening. I don't think Trondheim (or Tromsø, or any other city) could match that level of local enthusiasm. It was quite spectacular really. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think so. Not after the extremely successful Ski world championships that were held in Oslo this year, where the venues were sold out every single day, and 50.000 to 100.000 people attended the medal ceremonies in the Oslo city center every evening. I don't think Trondheim (or Tromsø, or any other city) could match that level of local enthusiasm. It was quite spectacular really. :)

Honestly, I think any Norwegian city that hosts the Games will draw huge crowds. Lillehammer drew well over 100,000 for many of the cross-country and ski jumping events.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, I think any Norwegian city that hosts the Games will draw huge crowds. Lillehammer drew well over 100,000 for many of the cross-country and ski jumping events.

Yes of course it will, seeing as winter sports is absolutely HUGE in Norway, but it's a lot more easy to draw large crowds in Oslo and the surrounding areas since eastern Norway is home to over 50% of the population and most people wouldn't have a very long way to travel to get to the venues.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Winter Games actually have grown a lot since Lillehammer. The 1994 Games had 1,730 athletes and 61 medal events. The 2010 Games had 2,600 athletes and 86 medal events. It would be very difficult for Lillehammer to host today--there are just too many athletes, officials, and media involved for such a small town. In 1994, most of the spectators had to stay in Oslo and take a train to Lillehammer for the events. I think any future bids from Norway will have to be made with Oslo as the host city--anything else is too small.

This makes all the more reason why the Winter Olympics nowdays require larger cities. That's a 50% increase in the last 15 years alone. Too much now for very rinky-dink small towns to handle.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think larger locations necessarily make anything less spread out. Maybe they are no longer as spread out as Albertville, but clustering seems largely unavoidable. If PC's claim that everything is within 30 minutes is true, and doesn't lead to transport bottlenecks, great. But geographically, those games ARE spread out into various clusters. Ditto Vancouver - Whistler was an hour+ away from the city (Munich would have had the same issue). And despite the fact that a larger city could have theoretically concentrated venues, some in Vancouver, like the Richmond Olympic Oval, were located far from the downtown core, because cities are also crowded places and it's hard to find contiguous land for numerous ice venues that will make sense to retain far into the future.

Obviously the preference is for clusters of venues, which is the only realistic option even for larger host cities. Annecy failed to learn this and remained too spread out a bid. There's nothing stopping a Zakopane bid from clustering venue locations rather than strewing them among nearby villages, though - if anything, smaller towns have more freedom to do this than hemmed-in urban areas.

Again though, it's not just about the venues. It's also about the transportation networks, accommodations & also not to leave many white elephants behind. And even when Annecy revamped their 2018 plan enough to satisfy the IOC technical board, they still were concerned with some of the logistics in their plan in those particular areas. These are critical areas that would not bode well for very small comminities. Since you won't have just the athletes to worry about, but also everyone else that's gonna b there.

And as you can see from the above post, the Winter Olympics have grown considerably over the last 15 years. A 50% increase since Lillehammer. That is extensive. And seemingly too much for a very small community to undertake. The IOC would be very hard pressed nowadays to even consider it. Even as recent as about 6 months ago, Norwegian IOC member said that if Norway was interested in a Winter Olympics again, that they'd have to go with Oslo, since nearly everything is already there. And this is despite how successful Lillehammer was viewed in general.

I don't know why the thread is talking Norway again. I mean for a tiny nation of 5 mil or so, it's already had TWO winter Olympics in only 42 years!! Surely, OTHER nations must have their turn first.

Yeah, but other than little Ostersund, who else is there in Scandinavia (Northern Europe) for the job? Denmark is out, Finland is out, Iceland is out. It's almost parallel to North America. Besides the U.S. & Canada, there's nobody else that can host the Winter Olympics.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And as you can see from the above post, the Winter Olympics have grown considerably over the last 15 years. A 50% increase since Lillehammer. That is extensive. And seemingly too much for a very small community to undertake. The IOC would be very hard pressed nowadays to even consider it. Even as recent as about 6 months ago, Norwegian IOC member said that if Norway was interested in a Winter Olympics again, that they'd have to go with Oslo, since nearly everything is already there. And this is despite how successful Lillehammer was viewed in general.

And especially if private homes, farms and little chalets in the smaller communities DON'T want to rent their rooms out to "strangers" (even, for example, federal troops & police brought in for duty), the smaller cities are STRAINED for housing everyone else outside of the "Official" family. Which means the OCOG have to cast a bigger AND farther net each time to find housing for those 4 weeks (I now include all the prep time + the 8 days or so for the Paralympics; and the tear-down period).

Logistically, people often forget that great quantities of food AND supplies have to be TRUCKED in for all that time, to be able to feed everyone!! Thus, the little mountain roads CANNOT handle all the increased traffic for those 4 weeks; AND if vehicles break down, or there are avalanches or a major terrorist attack where getting the injured to treatment facilities is critical, the tiny, picturesque communities will be hard-pressed to respond properly to any of these eventual emergencies.

Plus, I am sure it is a given that more people comparatively attending a WOGs get sick (even if it's only a cold or flu) than those attending a SOG. So again, all the medical resources of the host community/area are totally hard-pressed for this aspect.

Even if only HALF the 51 heads of state who came to Beijing attended a WOG, probably only a Turin or a Vancouver could comfortably accommodate the huge security details of so many VIPs. I imagine PC and Gangneung can probably accommodate 2 dozen heads of state safely. The less controversial ones would have to be billeted elsewhere.

Also, just before the partying begins, the IOC and all its constituencies meet for 3 or 4 days for full-body business to take care of. And then the various federations have their own little congresses for another 2 or 3 days. So for the SOGs alone, Rio, for example, has to provide 25 3-star hotels for the federations to meet in; for the WOGs, there are how many federations? 10 or 12.

So there are ALL these incredible logistic, accommodational demands placed on host communities.

Just as an example...in LA 1984, to create the food-assembly kitchen for the USC Village dining room alone (and remember, USC was the bigger village compared to the smaller half at UCLA), LAOOC leased the nearby 6,200-seat Shrine auditorium. They tore out 2,500 seats of the orchestra seating so they could extend the huge stage to set up just an ASSEMBLY or food-staging area for the two USC-Village dining halls for the athletes & press. (This was the auditorium where Michael Jackson's hair caught fire during that Pepsi commercial, so of course, actual hot cooking was not permitted inside. :) It was done in tents outside.) Surely, a small city of 50,000 does not have such a huge facility to be used for support operations for a WOGs.

BTW, anybody know what happened to the Village used in Lillehammer?

Edited by baron-pierreIV
Link to post
Share on other sites

This makes all the more reason why the Winter Olympics nowdays require larger cities. That's a 50% increase in the last 15 years alone. Too much now for very rinky-dink small towns to handle.

If population is that important then why haven't IOC limit for that?

Also the SOC president said Sweden is too small to host the summer games but he seriously consider to bid for WOG 2022. Why that if he think Östersund/Åre is too small? He probably knows more about that than YOU!He's the president of SOC!! He don't spend alot of money on a bid if he don't think it can win.

Enough with your stupid propaganda against the Östersund and other smaller cities.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...