Winter 2022

[worldracer]

As for Switzerland, I still cannot see a compelling reason for the 26 Cantons of Switzerland to support a bid that would benefit only the hosting Canton.

Could you elaborate on this? Many times you hear "for our city, for our region/state, for our national pride..." How is Switzerland organized that they are less likely to share a national identity?

You could certainly say that most bids only benefit one region (at most).

[Rob2012]

Could you elaborate on this? Many times you hear "for our city, for our region/state, for our national pride..." How is Switzerland organized that they are less likely to share a national identity?

I believe Switzerland has a very direct democracy in which many things are put to referenda, and the individual Cantons will vote their own way since a lot of power lies in the hands of regional government in Switzerland.

[Faster]

Could you elaborate on this? Many times you hear "for our city, for our region/state, for our national pride..." How is Switzerland organized that they are less likely to share a national identity?

You could certainly say that most bids only benefit one region (at most).

Switzerland is in essence 26 sovereign states. It is in many ways a miniature European Union brought to full integration. Each Canton is almost exactly like the other in its levels of development, lifestyle, national outlook and overall well-being. The Olympics would not be a development tool for any region or city of Switzerland because there is nothing to develop. Switzerland is a fiercely proud country and the Swiss identity is very strong. Each Canton would have the ability to derail a bid through the Federal Council and the host Canton/s would all vote in a binding referendum. That referendum was the reason Berne withdrew in 2003 and not much has changed in Switzerland since. 2014 and 2018 were both skipped not out of lack of desire (Davos, Geneva, Zurich, and Valais have all stated a desire to host at one time or another) but the Cantonal governments and the Federal Council know that a referendum is more likely to show an unfavourable result then a favourable one. The IOC will not touch a bid with under 60 to 65% support and even getting past 50% will be difficult in Switzerland. The Swiss Sports Establishment actively lobbied against Munich, and the Germans are right pissed because they know damn well that a Swiss bid is DOA.

[FYI]

How then was Sion able to bid for 2002 & 2006 with such referendum issues?

As for Vienna, that would be an interesting concept then, & perhaps maybe something that the AOC should explore further. A hypothetical Vienna/Munich showdown would make a race exciting.

But I wonder is Austria has completely licked their wounds yet from their failed 2010 & 2014 bids to go at it yet again. Not to mention their 2002 & 2006 attempts that didn't even make it to the voting table.

[Kenadian]

Munich lost to PyeongChang because PyeongChang has been lobbying the IOC since at least as early as 2002 and came close to winning several times. It was just their time.

I really don't have a lot of faith in the Swiss getting things together for a bid. They always seem to drop out. Shows a lack of passion, in my view.

Austria got burned in recent bids, but with hosting the OWYGs in Innsbruck next year, they obviously still have interest in the Olympic movement. It might just take a few more rounds before they go again. Personally, I always liked the Salzburg bid.

So do you suppose that Kazakhstan is out of the picture given that the 2014 and 2018 Games are both within their real and in new winter frontiers?

[Faster]

Well it really depends. There is no harm in Almaty bidding for 2022 (unless Tokyo wins 2020) as a dry run for 2026. If the USOC is really out of the picture for both the summer and winter games in the near future, Europe could get 2022 and then have 2026 right back in Asia. But again the Chinese will actively lobby against it until Shanghai has secured their 2nd games.

[Westfale]

Still it's Peyongchang who is the major factor in the bidding. And it's bigger difference between Munich and PyeongChang/Gangneung than PyeongChang/Gangneung and Östersund Åre. So still if the population is a that big factor then why won South Korea ahead of Germany. Germany is a winter superpower. Why did Germany lost?? They lost clearly..

So the rest of the country can't help Östersund/ Åre if they need it?? Do you think the cities can host without any help from rest of the country as example the goverment??

PC has won, because they presented a bid for third time in a row and it has won, because a few Korean companies are top sponsors of the IOC. Sweden can not offer that. Therefore I find it not correct to compare Östersund with PC.

[worldracer]

What are thoughts on Zakopane? I was looking at the pics on Wikipedia and it is beautiful. Does anyone recall details and strengths/weaknesses from it's recent bids for the Olympics and the FIS championships?

[worldracer]

Well it really depends. There is no harm in Almaty bidding for 2022 (unless Tokyo wins 2020) as a dry run for 2026. If the USOC is really out of the picture for both the summer and winter games in the near future, Europe could get 2022 and then have 2026 right back in Asia. But again the Chinese will actively lobby against it until Shanghai has secured their 2nd games.

It seems a waste to me. The earliest they could get the games is 2030, and they still have Harbin to contend with.

[FYI]

Zakopane would have to go in it with Krakow now. Zakopane, along with Helsinki, Klagenfurt & Poprad-Tatry, didn't even get selected by the Election College to present to the full IOC membership to vote on for the 2006 Games. It was just Sion & Turin.

[Faster]

What are thoughts on Zakopane? I was looking at the pics on Wikipedia and it is beautiful. Does anyone recall details and strengths/weaknesses from it's recent bids for the Olympics and the FIS championships?

Zakopane does not have existing courses laid out that are FIS suitable. Along with surprisingly strict Polish environmental laws it is a no go. Krakow is 2 and a half hours away. A distance to far. Poland is out of the picture unless there are mountains closer to Krakow that would get FIS approval and their development comply with Polish environmental laws.

It seems a waste to me. The earliest they could get the games is 2030, and they still have Harbin to contend with.

China wants another summer games. The Chinese have been incredibly reluctant to bid for a winter games and by all accounts are not spending and training at a level anywhere close to their levels for the summer sports. The Chinese want Shanghai and Shanghai will probably bid for 2028 now that Korea has secured 2018. I doubt you will see Harbin until the 40's.

Zakopane would have to go in it with Krakow now. Zakopane, along with Helsinki, Klagenfurt & Poprad-Tatry, didn't even get selected by the Election College to present to the full IOC membership to vote on for the 2006 Games. It was just Sion & Turin.

As I mentioned about Krakow is too far from existing ski facilities.

I wonder if Slovenia will finally test the waters.

[Sir Rols]

I doubt you will see Harbin until the 40's.

The rule of the Asian 8s makes it a 2038 lock!

[nature]

Östersund/Åre can't host Because too small ??

Fu*k you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[intoronto]

And for Helsinki they proposed hosting events in Lilehammer so that automatically put them out of the runnin.

[Sir Rols]

Östersund/Åre can't host Because too small ??

Fu*k you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cool down!

Listen, I agree with you that the size and logistics of Östersund as an Olympics host are not the huge hurdle requiring great concession that some try to make out. Its challenges are far from insurmountable, and it has a some compelling factors in its favour.

But neither is it entitled to the games, or the IOC obliged to give it to them.

The biggest hurdle to me really is the Swedish will and determination. In a country with such an often frustratingly overwhelming concern for social and fiscal sensibilities, getting the political and popular support behind a costly bid may not be a straightforward task. And I'd fear the Swedish social and environmental activists wouldn't be slow to flex their muscles.

Edited July 15, 2011 by Sir Rols

[nature]

Cool down!

Listen, I agree with you that the size and logistics of Östersund as an Olympics host are not the huge hurdle requiring great concession that some try to make out. Its challenges are far from insurmountable, and it has a some compelling factors in its favour.

But neither is it entitled to the games, or the IOC obliged to give it to them.

The biggest hurdle to me really is the Swedish will and determination. In a country with such an often frustratingly overwhelming concern for social and fiscal sensibilities, getting the political and popular support behind a costly bid may not be a straightforward task. And I'd fear the Swedish social and environmental activists wouldn't be slow to flex their muscles.

I only mentioned the possibility of Sweden. I do not know anything about Sweden's social structure.

I'm surprised. Norway, Switzerland's population is less than Sweden. Venue population does not matter. Just need a crowd of 10,000 people. And, Sweden already has many times the winter sport world championships. The 1954 & 2007 Alpine Skiing World Championships were held in Åre. Åre is the most popular resort in Scandinavia. The infrastructure is already stocked. You can create a temporary Ice rink.

[FYI]

Does anybody think if Sofia & Sarajevo will make another attempt. And does anyone know if they've progressed in the critical areas since their last bids.

[baron-pierreIV]

(how boneheaded were the French to bid for both games?)

They didn't know that Samaranch would exercise his Machiavellian prerogative to reverse the voting/announcement order in a way that moved Albertville in front of the pack to check Paris' surging lead.

Does anybody think if Sofia & Sarajevo will make another attempt. And does anyone know if they've progressed in the critical areas since their last bids.

5 or 6 Euros bids would be VERY HEALTHY for the movement!!

Edited July 15, 2011 by baron-pierreIV

[Faster]

I have been given strong indications that the NOC's from Norway, Sweden, Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria and Ukraine want to bid (Germany and Ukraine already having government support). Now it is just down to political will to go with the will of the various NOCs.

As for Bulgaria. It is slowly improving and could be a very strong candidate the next time the games go east of the Danube. As for Sarajevo, Bosnia is in no place to host.

[Sir Rols]

I have been given strong indications that the NOC's from Norway, Sweden, Germany, France, Switzerland, Austria and Ukraine want to bid (Germany and Ukraine already having government support). Now it is just down to political will to go with the will of the various NOCs.

As for Bulgaria. It is slowly improving and could be a very strong candidate the next time the games go east of the Danube. As for Sarajevo, Bosnia is in no place to host.

Yeah, I've been doing my digging, and it dos appear the Swedish intentions are more than just academic (which is encouraging to me):

Sweden dreams of Winter Olympics 2022

Pyeongchang to host the Winter Olympics 2018 may be lucky four years later for Östersund. "Now it's all about whether we have the power to give a good enough offer," said SOK chairman Stefan Lindeberg.

If French or German Annecy Munich had been awarded the hosting of the Olympic Winter Games in 2018, Swedish hopes to stage the Olympics in 2022 would have come to nothing. Two European winter games in a row is simply not realistic.

Therefore Stefan Lindeberg, chairman of the Swedish Olympic Committee (SOC), rejoiced at the decision to give South Korean Pyoengchang event.

"Now we need not consider the aspect of Europe or Europe anymore. Now it's all about whether we have the power to build the facilities and the infrastructure required. And if we have the economics of it," says Lindenberg.

Previously SOC looked at the possibilities for Sweden to host an Olympic Games or at least a Youth Olympic Games, which would be a cheaper variant.

Now the investigation will be intensified.

"We are in no hurry. But we on the board will discuss with our sports federations on the ability of an Olympic bid looks. Then, during the next spring, we will decide if we should do a proper study on the possible organizing skills.

What augurs for a Swedish Winter Olympic Games in 2022?

"We are reputable tour operators, known to have good events. We have a very good attendance by people who know sports and have extensive experience in world class events. Then there's already a very stable and established mountain area in the village.

And against?

"It's the economy that is the question, the financial muscle. Housing and infrastructure are not included in the Olympic budget today, because you do not want people to build facilities solely for the Olympics, which will then be demolished.

Pyeongchang hosting in 2018, he sees as positive for several reasons.

Firstly, Stefan Lindeberg "is absolutely convinced that there will be an event in the top class." First, it shows that even lesser organizers (Pyeongchang has just under 50,000 inhabitants) may be hosting the Olympic Games.

"Korea becomes a more coherent events than in recent years. Munich had become very much like Turin and Vancouver with very long distances in between. This can be a very exciting concept.

"But it is not easier to get the Olympics, for every new edition so increases the demand. Last time Sweden was really close to it was 1994, when Lillehammer arranged. Today, the Olympics in a completely different scale.

It's a long way. But Stefan Lindeberg looks ahead with confidence. And hope.

"It's a dream. We all dream of an Olympics on home turf. Especially when you look around the world what it means. But we will also take responsibility for an application and see that it is reasonable.

"The possibilities for a new summer Olympics in Sweden we are closed, it's too big. But the Winter Olympics would be fantastic."

Dagens Nyheter

Translated with help from Google

And for Helsinki they proposed hosting events in Lilehammer so that automatically put them out of the runnin.

As reiterated (as I also found on my hunt) by Gunilla Lindberg:

Minister wants Swedish-Norwegian Winter Olympics

Sweden should apply to host a Winter Olympics - together with Norway. So says Sports Minister Lena Adelsohn Liljeroth. But the Swedish Olympic Committee gives thumbs down: "It is completely impossible," said Gunilla Lindberg, Secretary General of the Swedish Olympic Committee to newspaper Svenska Dagbladet.

Since the summer Olympics in 1912 in Stockholm, Sweden hopes to stage the new games have been in vain. Sweden has been running for seven Olympic Games, six of those winter games, but never been assigned to the event. Our Norwegian neighbors, by contrast, received two Winter Olympics. This has brought a thought in Sweden Sport:

"I think and hope that it is a question that Sweden's Olympic Committee should take up, for example, Sweden and Norway will eventually be able to make a joint application," said Lena Adelsohn Liljeroth to a question in parliament about the possibility of a Winter Olympics 2022.

Before the Winter Games 2002 Canada searched for the the Winter Gams for a third consecutive time, but it then became Salt Lake City who received the International Olympic Committee (IOC) trust. So far, no Olympic games split between countries, and the question does not arise now either according to Gunilla Lindberg, general secretaray in the SOC and a member of the IOC

"I am very surprised at her statement. You can not just blurt this stuff," said Gunilla Lindberg, to the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet.

Lindberg said it would cost at least $60 million to apply for an Olympic games - money that must come from the government. But she says that the government has not yet discussed the issue with the SOC. When asked if it might be time to seek an OS together with Norway, Gunilla Lindberg was clear:

"No. It is completely impossible."

Dagens Nyheter

Edited July 16, 2011 by Sir Rols

[FYI]

Interesting to read Stefan Lindeberg's remark that the Summer Olympic Games have now just become too big for Sweden. I've always shared that sentiment ever since their 2004 bid. I think 2004 was probably the last time Sweden coulda had a crack at the Summer Olympics.

[cjs2]

I'll repeat my question now that we've stopped obsessing over Sweden exclusively: Zakopane!?

[FYI]

It's already been answered in post #236.

[Querque]

Looooooooool, St Moritz/Davos?????? Loool all discuss about Östersund/Åre's population and then you put them in??? Ha ha ha ha!

I didn't put them in, I justed copied that from Wikipedia and seemingly they're interested in bidding.

And what makes Munich as a such great bid?? I'm mean if that great bid didn't won 2018 with their AMAZING population of 2 millions then why should they be a favorite to 2022???

BTW is it confirmed that Munich will bid for 2022?

I've never said that Munich was a great bid. To be honest I didn't really like it because they wanted to built a new biathlon and cross-country venue instead of using one of those that already exist there like in Ruhpolding or in Oberstorf.

And, no, it's not confirmed that they are bidding, but it is very likely. And they are favourite because Germany is one of the powerhouses in both winter and summer sports but hasn't host Olympics for 50 years. Germany is an economical superpower which could be an advantage too in times of the global financial crisis. Another advantage is probably that then they are bidding for a second time in a row.

Noone said that it is sure that they'll win but in my eyes they are the favourites at the moment.

And FYI, Vienna may be far from existing major skiing venues in Austria, but there are suitable mountains within a reasonable distance of the capital that can be further developed into Olympic calibre venues.

Vienna can't bid for winter games. If they wanna host olympics then only in summer (they bidded in the 1950s or 1960s I think). The nearest mountain, Vienna's "home mountain" is the Semmering, there are alpine skiing women's world cups every second year but the mountain is too little for a downhill e.g. I think the nearest useable ski resort would be Schladming/Ramsau. And if Schladming would bid for olympic winter games then only as co-host of Graz like in Graz's 2002 bid because Schladming and Graz are in the same federal state, in Styria. Another issue that makes a Vienna bid impossible is that Vienna has a red-green coalition since last autumn and the Viennese greens would be totally against olympics as I know them (quite on the contrary to Munich, where the greens are also part of the government but were for the bid...)

And the Austrians are not as adverse to development as their Swiss neighbours.

Lol, you cannot be serious... the stereotype Austrian and at all the Viennese is totally against everything new... ("We have never had that, we don't have that yet, we don't need that" ... hard to translate^^) ...

But I wonder is Austria has completely licked their wounds yet from their failed 2010 & 2014 bids to go at it yet again. Not to mention their 2002 & 2006 attempts that didn't even make it to the voting table.

Well, they are still licking... at all their worst wound, the financial scandal around the 2014 Salzburg bid, I have already told you about that... the body of public prosecutors is still investigating.

[baron-pierreIV]

Come on euros, bid one and ALL!!