neige Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 I'm a bit desapointed by the Annecy evaluation. Due to its gopolitical handicap, I think Annecy would have needed a perfect evaluation to hope winning. It's not the case. A risk for accomodation and tranport is mentioned by the commission. On the other hand, PC has almost no remark. The lack of snow is not a problem (we can do without natural snow!) The lack of passion is not a problem (it's pricesely the role of the games to make people discover winter sports!) The environment degradation is not a problem (PC will do its best on this point!) For Munich, the lack of population support (BTH, it's the same for Annecy) and the problem of the land that farmers don't want to lend in Garmisch are mentioned. The potential lack of snow on the nordic venue is not a problem. I think it will be hard for Munich and even harder for Annecy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 I'm a bit desapointed by the Annecy evaluation. Due to its gopolitical handicap, I think Annecy would have needed a perfect evaluation to hope winning. It's not the case. A risk for accomodation and tranport is mentioned by the commission. On the other hand, PC has almost no remark. The lack of snow is not a problem (we can do without natural snow!) The lack of passion is not a problem (it's pricesely the role of the games to make people discover winter sports!) The environment degradation is not a problem (PC will do its best on this point!) For Munich, the lack of population support (BTH, it's the same for Annecy) and the problem of the land that farmers don't want to lend in Garmisch are mentioned. The potential lack of snow on the nordic venue is not a problem. I think it will be hard for Munich and even harder for Annecy. Maybe the IOC isn't impartial... And maybe a lack of knowledge about the condition to host Great WoG... I'm surprising so about this point... Natural snow is essential like popular fervor in stadium... If PC win, it could be a shame like Qatar 2022... Now we can host without snow and suporter, it's a new concept. PC 2018 "New Horizon, without snow and supporter" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 PC 2018 "New Horizon, without snow and supporter" That's absolute baloney, Tulsa. Except for Athens 2004, have you ever seen Olympic competition WITHOUT spectators and guests? Please don't be naive and a sore loser. You 2 keep going on and on...like broken records about environment and spectators...WHAT YOU DON'T GET is that France has already hosted 3x! That is Annency's BIGGEST handicap. The French sport hierarchy has run a lousy campaign...All the pretty pictures and your constant negative dissing the Koreans only brings Annency down even lower in the eyes of regulars here...not to mention IOC members who lurk here. Surprises? Yeah...you better be ready for them come July 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 ]not to mention IOC members who lurk here.[/b] You are in dream... There aren't IOC members here... Where are you Albert de Monaco? And if you would like support a bid where there aren't snow, no supporters and no respectfull of the environment, it's your choice, but I think you are totally crazy or completely unconscious... When I read that i tell me there some crazy man who doesn't care about logical and respect of environment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 There aren't IOC members here... R u sure now, Tulsa? That's why Annency may only get 10 votes in the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 I'm sure !!! And I'm very confiant about Annecy... Keep your crazy dream I'm sure !!! And I'm very confiant about Annecy... Keep your crazy dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 I'm a bit desapointed by the Annecy evaluation. Due to its gopolitical handicap, I think Annecy would have needed a perfect evaluation to hope winning. It's not the case. A risk for accomodation and tranport is mentioned by the commission. On the other hand, PC has almost no remark. The lack of snow is not a problem (we can do without natural snow!) The lack of passion is not a problem (it's pricesely the role of the games to make people discover winter sports!) The environment degradation is not a problem (PC will do its best on this point!) What are you talking about??! Some of us keep telling you the same things, but you're not listening. Natural snow? Pyeongchang gets natural snow every %*!#ing winter, this isn't Hawaii. If 2018 is one of those crazy years and there happens to be no snow when February rolls around, then the organizing committee will guarantee snow coverage because stored snow is better than no snow. Passion? We get it, Pyeongchang isn't Europe. Your problem is you're too short-sighted to realize the potential payoffs of the PC bid. The IOC and the Olympic Movement has so much to gain by exposing Asia to winter sports. Unless you're content with the Winter Olympics remaining a regional competition, how do you expect to grow winter sports if you keep having the WOG in the same places every time? Environmental degradation? Do you even know what degradation means? Just because PC needs to remove some hectares of forest to build its infrastructure doesn't mean they won't be environmentally responsible. Tulsa said before that France had 200 ski resorts or something. Doesn't THAT sound like bigger degradation to you? I mean, what do you need 200 ski resorts for? If you knew anything about the projects happening in Korea these days, you'd know that Korea is serious about not just protecting, but also improving the environment. Finally, in considering Annecy, no one is going to care about accomodation and transport, so you don't have to worry. If the IOC members vote for Annecy, it might be because it's a beautiful setting or because they're friends with Killy, not because of someting like accomodation. The IOC members will be guaranteed nice acconomodation wherever they choose. If they don't vote for Annecy, it might be because they don't want to go back again so soon and often!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Environmental degradation? Do you even know what degradation means? Just because PC needs to remove some hectares of forest to build its infrastructure doesn't mean they won't be environmentally responsible. This is your say, "If it really is damaging to the environment on a noticeable scale, I would be opposed to the PC bid too." a noticeable scale. Yeah, is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 This is your say, "If it really is damaging to the environment on a noticeable scale, I would be opposed to the PC bid too." a noticeable scale. Yeah, is true. Yeah I said that, but I'm not convinced this is so. Looks to me that all the relevant parties are committed to responsible development and minimal impact. Sorry, but I'm going to believe the bid team, the Korean government, and the IOC before I ever believe you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Yeah I said that, but I'm not convinced this is so. Looks to me that all the relevant parties are committed to responsible development and minimal impact. Sorry, but I'm going to believe the bid team, the Korean government, and the IOC before I ever believe you. Well, not just normal forest. It's primeval forest. Mountain climbing is not allowed. The development is illegal. Trees have been grown for over 100 years. If you plant to move, the tree will die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Still not convinced. This isn't a fairy tale world. Development means altering the environment. It's too bad that Vancouver and Whistler had to lose some rare ecosystems to build their highway, but that's the price to pay. Doesn't mean they weren't responsible about it. Vancouver did everything they could to keep the impact to a minimum, and Pyeongchang will do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 If PC win, it could be a shame like Qatar 2022... Actually, I see Pyeongchang as more like Australia's World Cup bid. Neither are traditional powers (Korea in winter sports and Australia in football), yet both are significant enough to make some noise when it matters (Korea by winning medals and Australia by winning some WC games). Neither have that traditional "popular fervour" you speak of, but both countries have the core support and interest which you can later build upon. Neither have hosted before, and going to Pyeongchang in 2018 would help spread the game the same way going to Australia in 2022 would have. And both countries have plenty of big event hosting experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 I'm a bit desapointed by the Annecy evaluation. Due to its gopolitical handicap, I think Annecy would have needed a perfect evaluation to hope winning. It's not the case. A risk for accomodation and tranport is mentioned by the commission. On the other hand, PC has almost no remark. The lack of snow is not a problem (we can do without natural snow!) The lack of passion is not a problem (it's pricesely the role of the games to make people discover winter sports!) The environment degradation is not a problem (PC will do its best on this point!) Now you're getting it. While some may say that the 2018 E.R. doesn't seem to dictate a favorite, I see it just like you do. PyeongChang clearly has no negative remarks (ala Rio 2016's report). Munich has mediocre comments, while Annecy has clearly been indentified with a couple of key weaknesses. And I really couldn't have seen Annecy getting a 'perfect' evaluation, considering that for the preliminary report, Annecy had to scramble to totally redue their concept due to the strict warning given by the IOC that their plan pretty much sucked. All things considered, Annecy did come back with a pretty good plan compared to what they intially presented, but it still lacks when compared to the other 2 bids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 That's absolute baloney, Tulsa. Except for Athens 2004, have you ever seen Olympic competition WITHOUT spectators and guests? Please don't be naive and a sore loser. You 2 keep going on and on...like broken records about environment and spectators...WHAT YOU DON'T GET is that France has already hosted 3x! That is Annency's BIGGEST handicap. The French sport hierarchy has run a lousy campaign...All the pretty pictures and your constant negative dissing the Koreans only brings Annency down even lower in the eyes of regulars here...not to mention IOC members who lurk here. Surprises? Yeah...you better be ready for them come July 6th. He's definitely going to be a sore loser. It's not that Tulsa "doesn't" get it, it's that he WON'T. He refuses to listen to logic, be rational & objective, no matter the countless number of times these objective things have been explained to him. Instead, he'd rather focus on blasting the South Korean bid with his bombastic rhetoric & constantly have his blinders on when it comes to Annecy. It's people like this that give the word "stubborn" a whole new meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 I'm not stubborn, I don't understand why the snow condition and the environment impact isn't consider by the IOC... And to host WoG you have need lot of natural snow is important, 100% artificial isn't respectful to environment... The water is essential and to waste this water because a country don't have good condition is ridiculous more isn't good for earth... But it seem, IOC doesn't care about environment... The WoG impact on environment could be very high... Except if you have this WoG in Region where you have good condition during winter... Moreover the last international events in Korea was a catastrophe because Korea have an important lack of knoweldge, it's another risk to have good competition and to respect Athletes but it seem IOC doesn't care so. I'm not crazy but this points are very important nevertheless IOC doesn't care... Maybe I'm crazy or Maybe IOC is totally irresponsible with the logic... It's the reason why since one century the WoG happens in North America where there are good condition (except Vancouver but it was bad luck), In the Alps and Japan. There are to exception, Sarajevo and Sotchi (but Caucase could be a new frontier). Maybe you can have some other countries in the future with real good condition, like China, Kazakstan (and border countries). You have some limit to host WoG and if you don't respect the logic you can have a disaster (imagine WoG in 2018 with 0 snow???). You can't have WoG every where, isn't like SoG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 I'm not stubborn, I don't understand why the snow condition and the environment impact isn't consider by the IOC... And to host WoG you have need lot of natural snow is important, 100% artificial isn't respectful to environment... The water is essential and to waste this water because a country don't have good condition is ridiculous more isn't good for earth... But it seem, IOC doesn't care about environment... There are to exception, Sarajevo and Sotchi (but Caucase could be a new frontier). Maybe you can have some other countries in the future with real good condition, like China, Kazakstan (and border countries). You have some limit to host WoG and if you don't respect the logic you can have a disaster (imagine WoG in 2018 with 0 snow???). You can't have WoG every where, isn't like SoG. Pig-headed, then? You say all this but what about Sochi, which is going to have more of a environmental impact than PyeongChang would, & present more of a climatic concern (& I think more so than Vancouver did, since Sochi it located in a sub-TROPICAL enviroment). It's been refuted to you by others countless times already that PyeongChang presents no more of a climatic "risk" than Vancouver did, Sochi, Munich or even Annecy do. But yet you're still on the same diatribe otherwise. The IOC Evaluation Commission doesn't see it like you do, & I'll take their POV on it before some completely bias Annecy-trumpetier supporter. It's quite obvious if Annecy loses (which odds are, it will) you are going to be a complete sore loser about it. And that's not part of the Olympic "spirit". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Pig-headed, then? You say all this but what about Sochi, which is going to have more of a environmental impact than PyeongChang would, & present more of a climatic concern (& I think more so than Vancouver did, since Sochi it located in a sub-TROPICAL enviroment). It's been refuted to you by others countless times already that PyeongChang presents no more of a climatic "risk" than Vancouver did, Sochi, Munich or even Annecy do. But yet you're still on the same diatribe otherwise. The IOC Evaluation Commission doesn't see it like you do, & I'll take their POV on it before some completely bias Annecy-trumpetier supporter. It's quite obvious if Annecy loses (which odds are, it will) you are going to be a complete sore loser about it. And that's not part of the Olympic "spirit". Sotchi is a scandal about environment, but the responsible are IOC member, it's crazy. About snow condition Sotchi is under Siberian climate during winter even Sotchi is in Subtropical area... If you look some video, you have lot of snow during the winter in ski area. You can't compare snow condition in Korea with Alps, it's ridiculous, you can have more 2m even lot of more in Alps... In PC it's 25 cm in average, and if you look Biathlon you have nothing... Remember PC Biathlon, 0 snow in February, 0 suporters (but after PC said we have a strong public support (Where?) Munich Nordic Area in February (No problem, but I would like understand how Munich will can made Snow) Seriously do you want that? La Clusaz venue in February I prefer WoG with 100% natural snow in good condition and respect Athletes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Tulsa, don't worry. Fedex will provide all of PC's snow needs. They're a major sponsor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Remember PC Biathlon, 0 snow in February, 0 suporters (but after PC said we have a strong public support (Where?) PC 92% support 2009 Biathlon World Champiohips : visitors nothing. almost free tikets. Munich 60%, Anney 51% 2011 Alpine in GER, 2009 Alpine in FRA : visitors 130,000~200,000 people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Sotchi is a scandal about environment, but the responsible are IOC member, it's crazy. About snow condition Sotchi is under Siberian climate during winter even Sotchi is in Subtropical area... If you look some video, you have lot of snow during the winter in ski area. You can't compare snow condition in Korea with Alps, it's ridiculous, you can have more 2m even lot of more in Alps... In PC it's 25 cm in average, and if you look Biathlon you have nothing... Remember PC Biathlon, 0 snow in February, 0 suporters (but after PC said we have a strong public support (Where?) Munich Nordic Area in February (No problem, but I would like understand how Munich will can made Snow) Seriously do you want that? La Clusaz venue in February I prefer WoG with 100% natural snow in good condition and respect Athletes Here we go again... Already talked about And are you still talking about the 25 cm of snow? We already know you made that number up when you said you found it in the bid book. But the bid book says nothing about that. You think if you wait 2 months, people will forget that you're full of lies? Here, it's on page 14: bid book - environment and meterology This is getting boring. If this has gotten to the point where I just start posting links to previous threads, I'm not going to bother. Tulsa, don't worry. Fedex will provide all of PC's snow needs. They're a major sponsor. Whew! For a moment, I thought PC was screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 ^^you should already be used to talking in circles (like the rest of us are) with that troll. Again, he's got his blinders on. He speaks lies, embellishes to the point of ridiculousness, & can't be objective in the least. I don't Y any of us even bother, tbh. It's probably bcuz his bombastic posts are just laughable to the point of absurdity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 ^^you should already be used to talking in circles (like the rest of us are) with that troll. Again, he's got his blinders on. He speaks lies, embellishes to the point of ridiculousness, & can't be objective in the least. I don't Y any of us even bother, tbh. It's probably bcuz his bombastic posts are just laughable to the point of absurdity. True. It sure was fun arguing the first time around though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Here we go again... Already talked about And are you still talking about the 25 cm of snow? We already know you made that number up when you said you found it in the bid book. But the bid book says nothing about that. You think if you wait 2 months, people will forget that you're full of lies? Here, it's on page 14: bid book - environment and meterology This is getting boring. If this has gotten to the point where I just start posting links to previous threads, I'm not going to bother. Whew! For a moment, I thought PC was screwed. During the Winter Games period by PC bid book. Snow Cluster 17.5 cm (Minimum) 65.6 cm (Maximum) 37.1 cm (Mean) Nothing (2009)* Jungbong 24.9 cm (Minimum 58.8 cm (Maximum) 41.6 cm (Mean) Nothing (2009)* Gangneong 4.6 cm (Minimum) 34.0 cm (Maximum) 14.5 cm (Mean) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 During the Winter Games period by PC bid book. Snow Cluster 17.5 cm (Minimum) 65.6 cm (Maximum) 37.1 cm (Mean) Nothing (2009)* Jungbong 24.9 cm (Minimum) 58.8 cm (Maximum) 41.6 cm (Mean) Nothing (2009)* Gangneong 4.6 cm (Minimum) 34.0 cm (Maximum) 14.5 cm (Mean) Exactly. So that's 40 cm of snow on average for the 2 weeks in February. So explain how the hell that is in any way close to the 25 cm per YEAR Tulsa has mentioned? Oh, and Gangneung is the site of the indoor ice events. That average of 14.5 cm is 14.5 cm more than Vancouver got last February. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature Posted May 11, 2011 Report Share Posted May 11, 2011 Exactly. So that's 40 cm of snow on average for the 2 weeks in February. So explain how the hell that is in any way close to the 25 cm per YEAR Tulsa has mentioned? Oh, and Gangneung is the site of the indoor ice events. That average of 14.5 cm is 14.5 cm more than Vancouver got last February. I don't think that's a big problem I just worried about a repeat of the 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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