nature Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hi guys, So... I'm getting a little fed up with the same arguments being presented by the pro-European group (there seem to be two of you). .......................... No, No, NO In terms of the Olympic movement PyeongChang are not eligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Oh, and this nature person... he no Korean. You did not lived in Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Hi guys, So... I'm getting a little fed up with the same arguments being presented by the pro-European group (there seem to be two of you). Firstly, just to answer some of the questions directed at me, Mike, the Canadian. Yes, nature, I have lived in Korea and I lived mostly in Seoul but also in Pohang for a little while. As I said, I had enough experience in Korea in terms of skiing and did go skiing, mostly to Gangwon province, every winter I was in Korea. Furthermore, I have also lived in Tokyo and Osaka, Japan for a total of 6 years. So, I do have some credit when I speak about these Asian nations. Some of you seem to have a weird 'M*A*S*H-type' image of Korea. There are no palm trees and it's not a tropical country. They have four distinct seasons and as I already said, they have bitterly cold winters. Tulsa keeps saying that Korea has no capacity to organize the winter olympics, because they have no experience. The statement is flawed in so many different ways that I don't even know where to begin. Korea is more than capable of hosting major international events and conventions, being one of top 15 economies of the world and a major political, diplomatic and economical player on world stage. They have proven it over and over again with multiple number of international sports events, more notably the summer olympics and the world cup. I'm sorry, Tulsa, that the world cup 2002 was boring for you, probably since France got eliminated so early. Maybe the Europeans just are not very adaptable people to new environments and just could not cope. Korea is also one of the most educated countries in the world and a country that regularly scores highest in terms of IQ marks. They are also the most wired country in the world. It is entirely possible for them to learn the ropes of organizing the winter olympics, and they'd be pretty good at it. I'm appalled by the prejudice. But it's not something I can influence. Some of you are born and raised that way. One day, you might have a better understanding of the world, and be less racist. Also, some of you keep mentioning the snow conditions, etc. Snow is snow, and it forms exactly the same way whether it forms in Europe, Canada or Asia. It's laughable to say the snow is different. It's a little embarassing, but Vancouver had quite a lot of difficulty with snow. We had to transport snow onto the mountains from elsewhere (and make them artificially), because it just wouldn't snow. We had days when it rained and drizzled! We of course had days when it snowed too. I don't hear you complaining about Vancouver, Tulsa. Perhaps Canada has too many French speakers for you to be able to criticize, n'est-ce pas? Perhaps you WOULD criticize the Vancounver Olympics, where there are lots of Asian ethicities... Perhaps you'll criticize anything but French. Oh, and this nature person... he no Korean. Sorry but it isn't because Korea is one of the most important economy in the world than they can host WOG... Does Korea have a good experience or knowledge with ski cross, Biathlon, Freestyle ski and Alpin ski, Bobsleigh ? No Korea doesn't, each time was a catastrophe Does Korea have a popular fervor to winter sport ? No Korea doesn't, except Short Track and Artistic skating Does Korea have enough natural snow ? No korea doesn't, except once time in one century (it was this year) Does Korea have a winter culture? Maybe but isn't very glaring... Doesn't matter if Koran have the best QI in the world or the most wired country in the world... What's the connection with WoG??? I never say Korea don't have a winter, but they don't have enough snow, the winter is cold in Korea but without lot of precipitations... It's very different with Europe or North America, I have ever been in north America i don't think you can compare the snowfall with korea... Are you really a Canadian? Because when you spend a winter in Canada in don't think you can compare with Europe or less with Korea... You are too pro-korea to be a Canadian or maybe you are a Korean in Fact? Maybe Korea could buy fan to put on stadium like in 2002, Maybe Korea could buy Arbitrator or judge like to 2002 (Remember Korea-Spain, Italia-Korea...) to win some Ski session, maybe they can made themselves the snow, even they could buy IOC members to host WOG but never Korea will be a winter nation or a ski country... And never Korea will be "the new horizon" Before Korea, other country must host WoG like Sweden (A real winter country). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Keep talking about stuff you know nothing about. Amazing how a poor, uncivilized, tropical country like Korea, who will "never be a winter sports nation," still somehow manages to outperform France in the last 2 Winter Olympics, one of them (2006) being right next door to France, which is practically a French Olympics. And you had the audacity to bring up soccer/football too! How about this: you can bid for sports events when France can actually qualify for the World Cup without cheating and taking away a spot from the more deserving Ireland (who would've contributed a lot more in South Africa than France did). What a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I can now reveal the big secret of the PyeongChang 2018 bid: Korea to produce snow in 6 different Official colors including glow-in-the-dark snow for the NIGHT Olympic sessions!! Can Annecy or Munich do that?? Take that, Tulsa and against-nature!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Keep talking about stuff you know nothing about. Amazing how a poor, uncivilized, tropical country like Korea, who will "never be a winter sports nation," still somehow manages to outperform France in the last 2 Winter Olympics, one of them (2006) being right next door to France, which is practically a French Olympics. And you had the audacity to bring up soccer/football too! How about this: you can bid for sports events when France can actually qualify for the World Cup without cheating and taking away a spot from the more deserving Ireland (who would've contributed a lot more in South Africa than France did). What a joke I like Korea , I think it's a great country for lot of thing u not for WOG, I know korea isn't a tropical country. If you would like to speak football, what do you thing about "Hand of god"? Argentina are cheater? But the true is Korean had buy some arbitrator in 2002 if you look match between Spain-Korea or Italia-Korea it's a shame... France is a football nation not like Korea, we have heard just one time in korea in football it was in 2002... But if you want to comeback about winter sport, I'm curious to see the next WoG in Sotchi, I think Korea comeback in the rank. But you have only 2 sports where you are strong, Short track and artistic skating... France has always win in each discipline except Hockey... When you look in general France is before Korea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 1997 Ski jump registered players number "4" in Korea 2011 Ski jump registered players number "4" In Korea High school player, 4 Junior players, 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Any news on Annecy? I notice the last post in the Annecy forum was a month and a half ago. Is this bid still going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikehali Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Haha. I wonder whether Tulsa is actually part of the Anti Annecy 2018 group... his comments make you somewhat anti- Annecy. Tulsa, I am indeed Canadian. I suppose my comments are pro-Korean here. That's mostly because you and nature are so keen on bashing Korea while there didn't really seem to be anyone else to defend it except for Baron, who seems to have given up on you guys anyway. haha. Nature, I have definitely lived in Korea. Most of it was in Gwangjang-dong, Seoul, and as I said, also in Pohang. I can even tell you the address in Seoul that I used to live in if you want... and I could also probably tell you some of the smaller shops I frequented, if you feel the need to test me. I just wonder whether you yourself would know any. Anyway, I agree that Korea probably does lack some expertise in terms of holding some of the winter sports events. But as I said, it can quite easily be dealt with. Besides, Olympics are not solely organized and prepared by the host nation only. The IOC interjects constantly to ensure certain standards are met, and IOC oversees the whole preparation. If standards are not met by deadline, IOC will reject the host nation. So, Tulsa, if you're worried about the standards, don't worry. IOC has your back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 except for Baron, who seems to have given up on you guys anyway. haha. It's NOT that. It's that after a while, you just know you're dealing with desperate, pathetic AMATEURS and the discussion has moved into the realm of the absurd and UNREAL!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 It's NOT that. It's that after a while, you just know you're dealing with desperate, pathetic AMATEURS and the discussion has moved into the realm of the absurd and UNREAL!! You are pathetic and you are an amateur !!! On gamesbids the only voice is Baron, when you think differently than Baron you have wrong... Are you a professional Baron? Baron think PC must win, everybody can't think differently, if not this person is stupid or pathetic... I said PC and Korea can't host WoG, because they don't have knowledge, good climatic conditions, Popular fervor and real potential to have good games... It's forbidden to think that? If baron think the contrary nobody can't say something else? Seriously, you are a brave guy but you are so stupid to have a real conversation... See you the 6 july. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doh Rye Posted March 29, 2011 Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 I said PC and Korea can't host WoG, because they don't have knowledge, good climatic conditions, Popular fervor and real potential to have good games... It's forbidden to think that? If baron think the contrary nobody can't say something else? Seriously, you are a brave guy but you are so stupid to have a real conversation... See you the 6 july. On Knowledge. Korea has been the most prominent Asian nation in trying to get involved in Winter Games - both in performance and in hosting events. It has had some failures and growing pains. However, having essentially a decade (or two) of being considered a developed country and the significant gains that the nation has made... they deserve a shot to gain the knowledge and grow. The question is: Do you believe that the Olympics should be limited to those nations with vast amounts of experience and limited geographically? OR Is the Olympic Spirit about promoting sport and knowledge in other areas to demonstrate the benefits sport provides in areas where it may not be traditional but can affect change both in sport and in other subsidiary areas? I like the idea that the Olympics is more than just sport... and believe Korea has proven itself to be a capable host and worthy of the reward and ability to demonstrate its capacity on the global state. On Climatic Conditions. I've skied in Banff, Whistler, Jasper, Pyeongchang, and Alpensia (near PC). I never noticed a difference... always seemed to be a decent amount of snow (maybe a little crowded)... but honestly never entered my frame of reference. Popular Fervor Isn't the Korean bid the one of the three that is most significantly backed by both residents in the immediate area and citizens nationally? Potential to Have a Good Games You have to appreciate the Korean psyche a little here. In situations like the World Cup or the Summer Games (and the WOG).. knowing that the nation will be on display to the entire world.. Koreans will do everything they can to ensure success. Smaller events (Curling World Championships) won't win over that many people.. it's the psyche of the people. If volunteerism and national pride make a good games.. Korea will dominate in that areas.. of that I have no doubt. I'm hoping PC wins. Hosting the games in PC will invigorate a nation at a level that Germany/France can't meet (subjective, I know)... and will leave the greatest legacy... Both... are noble goals to pursue... and I hope the IOC agrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature Posted March 29, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2011 Popular FervorIsn't the Korean bid the one of the three that is most significantly backed by both residents in the immediate area and citizens nationally? yes, but too many Koreans opposite for this bid. I have lof of newspaper and citizens post. and thay are not interest in sports, only support for regional development. World athletics championship in Korea in this year. Maybe let alone medals nobody to finals. PC 2018 will be the same. They must create an atmosphere. and need more held in world championhips and athlete development It is a little premature to host in 2018. Potential to Have a Good Games I don't want the convention. want sports, passion, atmosphere. Korea does not exist. I'm hoping PC wins. Hosting the games in PC will invigorate a nation at a level that Germany/France can't meet (subjective, I know)... and will leave the greatest legacy... Both... are noble goals to pursue... and I hope the IOC agrees. You thik about 1997 winter universaide ski jumping pakr in Korea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Mata Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Ah, the bitching... Brings back memories of the weeks before the Copenhagen vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob2012 Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Any news on Annecy? I notice the last post in the Annecy forum was a month and a half ago. Is this bid still going? No replies? Shame. So the French bid is dead then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 No replies? Shame. So the French bid is dead then? Recently France organized European Biathlon cup, Alpin Ski worldcup, European Xgames... The next step is to promote the bid in every sport event in the world... But next month there aren't winter sport event.... Because spring time is there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pure facts Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Just because there is no news on this forum does not mean that the three candidate cities are not hitting the road: all three of them were in Seoul and Nouvelle Calédonie last week, will be in London next week; all of them have had events marking the 100 days to the election... Annecy has communicated on the IOC poll results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FYI Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 On gamesbids the only voice is Baron, when you think differently than Baron you have wrong... Are you a professional Baron? Baron think PC must win, everybody can't think differently, if not this person is stupid or pathetic... I said PC and Korea can't host WoG, because they don't have knowledge, good climatic conditions, Popular fervor and real potential to have good games... It's forbidden to think that? If baron think the contrary nobody can't say something else? Tulsa, stop being a complete HYPOCRITE. You're just as "guilty" of doing the same that you're accusing Baron of. You 'think' that "Annecy must win" & anybody else who thinks differently is "stupid & don't know what they're talking about". Even though countless times others on here have been able to efficiently derail your incessant diatribes about South Korea & anything else that you claim as "traditiaonl winter sports nations & the 'favorable/unfavorable' climatic conditions". To you, it's "forbidden" to outline PyeongChang's good attributes because they don't fall into your line of pro-Annecy/France/Europe "vision". So please, pot. Stop calling the kettle black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Tulsa, stop being a complete HYPOCRITE. You're just as "guilty" of doing the same that you're accusing Baron of. You 'think' that "Annecy must win" & anybody else who thinks differently is "stupid & don't know what they're talking about". Even though countless times others on here have been able to efficiently derail your incessant diatribes about South Korea & anything else that you claim as "traditiaonl winter sports nations & the 'favorable/unfavorable' climatic conditions". To you, it's "forbidden" to outline PyeongChang's good attributes because they don't fall into your line of pro-Annecy/France/Europe "vision". So please, pot. Stop calling the kettle black. Dear FYI. I understand. but His claim is true. Maybe It is no wonder that. Because I'm Korean and proved to be about Korea. Lack of trying for the development of winter sport in Korea. Kim yu-na is the result of accidental. Kim practice in Canada or L.A every day. Almost Korea rink conditions not good. Nonetheless no one takes care of that. They want the conventions only. and I have submitted evidence. Universiade jumping park and rink conditions and several other. The some stadiums and hotels was completed in last 10 years. Environment haven't changed a bit for athletes. Anyway, for athlete's that are better in Munich or Annecy. 2009 Biathlon world championship and Continental cup ski jump, have been confirmed lack of atmosphere. "New Horizons" It's the mere geographical concept. PC 2018 just new place. No more no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulsa Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Tulsa, stop being a complete HYPOCRITE. You're just as "guilty" of doing the same that you're accusing Baron of. You 'think' that "Annecy must win" & anybody else who thinks differently is "stupid & don't know what they're talking about". Even though countless times others on here have been able to efficiently derail your incessant diatribes about South Korea & anything else that you claim as "traditiaonl winter sports nations & the 'favorable/unfavorable' climatic conditions". To you, it's "forbidden" to outline PyeongChang's good attributes because they don't fall into your line of pro-Annecy/France/Europe "vision". So please, pot. Stop calling the kettle black. I say 4 thing : PC doesn't have public fervor, Korean don't have interest to winter sport except Short track and Artistic skating !!! it is a fact that nobody can't dispute !!! (Remember Biathlon, no fan, no supporters, nothing) PC doesn't have the best climatic condition, only 25 cm each winter in average, sometimes there is nothing (Remember biathlon 2009 and wasn't an exception) and even artificial snow can compensate this lack of snow (Maybe if you don't care about environment) but sometimes they have good condition like this winter but it was exceptional (the first time in 1 century)... it's an important risk... PC doesn't a good knowledge about winter sport, it's a fact, this winter snowbordcross has been canceled because the track was too dangerous... Or an another example : The big air world cup was canceled because they don't have enough money to organize this event (Bigair isn't olympic) and there were other missed during the last years... PC doesn't have winter sport tradition, one more time it's a fact (Except Short track and Artistic skating, they doesn't exist, and they haven't win medals in other winter sports), Korea has organized only few competitions in 10 years... If you compare with Germany or France, there are more competition in 1 winter in this countries than PC in 10 winter... Nobody can contest these points... It's the reality for the moment These factors contribute to give or not an atmosphere to host WoG, for the moment there isn't atmosphere because except some people or politician in Korea, everybody doesn't care about WoG, and if you tell me there 93% of population want WoG, it's only because in their culture Korean are very patriotic with their country. I'm agree with you when you tell me WoG must go to new countries, or when Korean is a great country... But Korea can't organize good WoG for the moment... And isn't because it's the only new country between France and Germany than WoG must go to Korea... Germany or France purpose best atmosphere and condition to host WoG in 2018, and for me the choice must be do Between Germany and France... After, here lot of people think it's the turn to PC because they lost 2 times or because they have a good bid, but host WoG is more to have a good bid book, it's also a reality and for me the reality it's Korea could host WoG on the paper but in the reality will be a catastrophe for the WoG... Nature seems to know the reality but everybody prefer shut their eyes when he said there isn't atmosphere or korean doesn't care WoG... And when I say Korea can't Host WoG someones on Gamesbids tell me i'm crazy or disrespectful... Maybe I'm not totally objective because my city is in the race to 2018 but for me in 2010 and 2014 I had the same purpose about PC, and since 2010 nothing change in PC bid... If Korea present a bid to 2020 SoG, I will be the first supporter !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikehali Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Spot on, FYI. I must say we are all guilty of that at times, but perhaps some more than others. Nature, you must be the least patriotic/nationalistic Korean person I've ever met. Most Koreans I've met are very patriotic (and tend to lean more towards nationalistic side), and take criticisms from foreigners about their country not very lightly... nor would they criticize their own country to foreigners. I just find it a little strange. That's all. Anyway, it would be interesting to see what happens when the IOC votes. Those votes are so unpredictable and therefore quite exciting to watch. So much politics, personal/national interests and sometimes corruption are involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikehali Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 If Korea present a bid to 2020 SoG, I will be the first supporter !!! Because suddenly by then Korea would be excellent in athletics? They are crap in athletics (except maybe the marathon) and really, I think athletics should generally be considered the core of summer olympic games. Also, I think Korea only does well in a few summer olympics fields, such as the martial arts, baseball and archery... and generally make it to top 10 in the medals count from those. So, by your standards, I don't think you would be supporting Korea if they bid for 2020 Summer games. haha. Oh, but wait, didn't they have the summer games in 1988? And wasn't it pretty successful and was also the first olympic games where cold war rivals didn't boycott? I guess they proved in 1988 that they could still organize a large international sports event although they weren't all-rounded sportsmen with little experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nature Posted March 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Nature, you must be the least patriotic/nationalistic Korean person I've ever met. Most Koreans I've met are very patriotic (and tend to lean more towards nationalistic side), and take criticisms from foreigners about their country not very lightly... nor would they criticize their own country to foreigners. I just find it a little strange. That's all. You know about me? and You know about korea? You lived in korea? so what? I point out the problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gangwon Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 PC doesn't have public fervor, Korean don't have interest to winter sport except Short track and Artistic skating !!! it is a fact that nobody can't dispute !!! Annecy doesn't have public fervor, French don't have interest to winter sport except Skiing and Gun Skiing !!! it is a fact that nobody can't dispute !!! Annecy 2018 faces growing public opposition PC doesn't have the best climatic condition, only 25 cm each winter in average, sometimes there is nothing (Remember biathlon 2009 and wasn't an exception) and even artificial snow can compensate this lack of snow (Maybe if you don't care about environment) but sometimes they have good condition like this winter but it was exceptional (the first time in 1 century)... it's an important risk... 100% false. Prove it you big insecure bully, or admit you're pulling numbers out of your derriere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baron-pierreIV Posted March 30, 2011 Report Share Posted March 30, 2011 Mikehali, FYI, Gangwon...don't bait those two. You'll just get sucked into their upside down world...where there is non-European snow falling upside down!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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