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Argentina-Uruguay 2030


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Add Mar del Plata and La Plata to the list. Buenos Aires could have two stadiums. Santa Fe is also one option, maybe Jujuy. It's sad that FIFA is so negative towards joint bids because of Korea and Japan although they seem to work in European Championships. The biggest obstacle I see for this bid is the imbalance as Uruguay would have no more than two, maximum three, stadia. Uruguay and Argentina share the history, much of their culture and also the Rioplatense language. So the first finalists of the World Cup ever to host the tournament together would be nice.

I think Chile is too small to do it alone, outside of Santiago where would they go? I believe Colombia is much more probable as a future host.

The problem with the Korea-Japan hosting was it was sooooo competitive. The one-upsmanshsip was unending; the 2 countries very subtly tried to succeed at the expense of the other. Whereas Argentina-Uruguay should not have 2 many problems. They share a common language and culture, they both know their place vis-a-vis each other; and I am sure there would be no conflict as to who would host Opening, the semi-finals and the finals. This might be a seamless joint bid.

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And we have like 24 hours of peace from you before your post limit lets you spam shite again.

Well... If you see a Chinese World Map.... Even USA could blame the west...

Follow my Skyscrapercity venue plan here: http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=98657504&postcount=253

I think Chile is too small to do it alone, outside of Santiago where would they go? I believe Colombia is much more probable as a future host.

I was talking about some economic stability... A tri-joint bid Argentina Chile and Uruguay could be nice, since the expenses could be splitted in three.

And I'm not sure FIFA would like to send matches to small and far cities in the Argentina...

Really a different and challenging scenario.

I am myself like these sentimental appeals and a World Cup with a final match in a refurbshed Centenario Stadium would be so nice! smile.gif

About number of hosts:

5 host cities in Argentina and 3 in Uruguay is enough for a World Cup.

But the problem is Uruguay doesn't need even a second big stadium...

Anyway, I root for, somehow, they could present a bid for 2030 and win it. But for sure, it will be a very different World Cup.

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The problem with the Korea-Japan hosting was it was sooooo competitive. The one-upsmanshsip was unending; the 2 countries very subtly tried to succeed at the expense of the other.

Yes, and FIFA shouldn't have expected anything else as they were two individual bids originally in countries separated by history and the sea. In other cases a joint tournament could work much more naturally if there is only one organizing committee. Argentina-Uruguay is an obvious example, the Iberian bid was another.

I was talking about some economic stability... A tri-joint bid Argentina Chile and Uruguay could be nice, since the expenses could be splitted in three.

And I'm not sure FIFA would like to send matches to small and far cities in the Argentina...

Really a different and challenging scenario.

I am myself like these sentimental appeals and a World Cup with a final match in a refurbshed Centenario Stadium would be so nice! smile.gif

About number of hosts:

5 host cities in Argentina and 3 in Uruguay is enough for a World Cup.

But the problem is Uruguay doesn't need even a second big stadium...

Anyway, I root for, somehow, they could present a bid for 2030 and win it. But for sure, it will be a very different World Cup.

Mar del Plata and La Plata aren't small and faraway cities. The former was a host city back in 1978 and La Plata is only an hour away from Buenos Aires and has one of the most modern stadiums in South America. Major stadiums outside of Montevideo would be useless after the tournament so some kind of a temporary solution would be needed there.

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Mar del Plata and La Plata aren't small and faraway cities. The former was a host city back in 1978 and La Plata is only an hour away from Buenos Aires and has one of the most modern stadiums in South America. Major stadiums outside of Montevideo would be useless after the tournament so some kind of a temporary solution would be needed there.

I was talking about San Juan de la Frontera and Jujuy...

I know all the cities with "Plata" names are near Buenos Aires and Rio de la Plata for obvious reasons.

And also, I have an argentine friend from La Plata that invited me several time to stay in his house.

wink.gif

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The actual bidding process is obviously still years away, but there are at least 2 good reasons to start to make some noise about it already: First, to make sure that no other South American country applys for 2026 (Venezuela, possibly together with Colombia would be an option) and second to gather support within Argentina and Uruguay for some joint infrastructure and economic development projects.

Like Danny sais, I doubt Argentina is currently able to pull it off (and Uruguay will be a minor partner). So while there still is plenty of time, they'll need it to get their countries in shape enough, and having a decade of history of successfull joint projects with already improved road & rail connections to point at when it comes to bidding would certainly be a boon to get FIFA officials look friendly at a joint bid, so starting the project early does make sense to me.

As for stadiums/host cities, I'd do it roughly along those lines:

2 Montevideo (apart from the Centenario, the Gran Parque Central of Nacional could be upgraded/rebuild to around 40k seats without turning into a real white elefant)

1 somewhere else in Uruguay (it's going to be a white elefant, no matter what, so best done with many temporary seats)

2 in Buenos Aires

La Plata

Rosario

Santa Fe

Mendoza

Tucumán

10 stadia in 8 locations, all reasonably sizable metropolitan areas except for the 3rd one in Uruguay. Not even including Mar del Plata or Salta ;) I don't think the problem is finding host cities, at least not in Argentina, the problem will be finding the money to upgrade infrastructure and build stadiums to a level necessary for the World Cup.

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The actual bidding process is obviously still years away, but there are at least 2 good reasons to start to make some noise about it already: First, to make sure that no other South American country applys for 2026 (Venezuela, possibly together with Colombia would be an option) and second to gather support within Argentina and Uruguay for some joint infrastructure and economic development projects.

Like Danny sais, I doubt Argentina is currently able to pull it off (and Uruguay will be a minor partner). So while there still is plenty of time, they'll need it to get their countries in shape enough, and having a decade of history of successfull joint projects with already improved road & rail connections to point at when it comes to bidding would certainly be a boon to get FIFA officials look friendly at a joint bid, so starting the project early does make sense to me.

As for stadiums/host cities, I'd do it roughly along those lines:

2 Montevideo (apart from the Centenario, the Gran Parque Central of Nacional could be upgraded/rebuild to around 40k seats without turning into a real white elefant)

1 somewhere else in Uruguay (it's going to be a white elefant, no matter what, so best done with many temporary seats)

2 in Buenos Aires

La Plata

Rosario

Santa Fe

Mendoza

Tucumán

10 stadia in 8 locations, all reasonably sizable metropolitan areas except for the 3rd one in Uruguay. Not even including Mar del Plata or Salta ;) I don't think the problem is finding host cities, at least not in Argentina, the problem will be finding the money to upgrade infrastructure and build stadiums to a level necessary for the World Cup.

Why force a 3rd stadium in Uruguay? That's stupid. 2 in Uruguay are fine and 6 in Argentina would take care of it. And even in Argentina, maybe 1 of those can be temporary or downsizeable. Remember, it's two 80,000'ers (Opening & Finals), two 60,000 for the semi's; and four 40,000ers. That's the minimum required. They don't have to go 9 or 10. Just have the two hosts, Brazil and maybe Germany and the USA play in the bigger stadia...and they'll fill up, A more sensible rather than EXTRAVAGANT plan would sell easily with FIFA...hopefully.

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Why force a 3rd stadium in Uruguay? That's stupid. 2 in Uruguay are fine and 6 in Argentina would take care of it. And even in Argentina, maybe 1 of those can be temporary or downsizeable. Remember, it's two 80,000'ers (Opening & Finals), two 60,000 for the semi's; and four 40,000ers. That's the minimum required. They don't have to go 9 or 10. Just have the two hosts, Brazil and maybe Germany and the USA play in the bigger stadia...and they'll fill up, A more sensible rather than EXTRAVAGANT plan would sell easily with FIFA...hopefully.

The minimum requirements are lower, actually... AFAIK, the opening game just needs 60k, and I don't think the semis have a requirement at all (Qatar plans with just 1 60k+ stadium), plus opening and final stadium can host the semis. So it's Monumental (Buenos Aires) ~80k, Centenario (Montevideo) 60k+ and the rest 40-50k.

However I expect a 3rd Uru stadium because the bid is lopsided as it is, and I'm not sure if just including Montevideo would appeal to FIFA that much, and I'd expect the Uruguayans to want more of their World Cup as well. And I think there are too many candidate cities in Argentina to go with the minimum requirement, they'll all want to be included.

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Well, there are some pretty "interesting" choices also in the World Cups of 2010 and 2014 like Nelspruit, Rustenburg, Cuiaba and Manaus.

I was talking about San Juan de la Frontera and Jujuy...

I know all the cities with "Plata" names are near Buenos Aires and Rio de la Plata for obvious reasons.

And also, I have an argentine friend from La Plata that invited me several time to stay in his house.

wink.gif

Well, there are some pretty "interesting" choices also in the World Cups of 2010 and 2014 like Nelspruit, Rustenburg, Cuiaba and Manaus.

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As for stadiums/host cities, I'd do it roughly along those lines:

2 Montevideo (apart from the Centenario, the Gran Parque Central of Nacional could be upgraded/rebuild to around 40k seats without turning into a real white elefant)

1 somewhere else in Uruguay (it's going to be a white elefant, no matter what, so best done with many temporary seats)

2 in Buenos Aires

La Plata

Rosario

Santa Fe

Mendoza

Tucumán

I would replace Tucumán with Córdoba and start with the host cities of 1978:

Buenos Aires (maybe 2 stadiums)

Córdoba

Rosario

Mar del Plata

Mendoza

Add to that La Plata and then if necessary you could choose from Tucumán, Salta, Jujuy, Santa Fe etc. Finding cities in Argentina would not be a problem and there wouldn't be white elephants, in any case the stadium infrastructure needs a major renovation. In Uruguay a small stadium outside of Montevideo which could be downgraded after the tournament.

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Reindeer, with all FIFA requirements, Monumental de Nuñez will never reach 80k capacity. Perhaps they have to semi-demolish the stadium like Rio is doing with Maracana, since Monumental is a pretty old stadium.

Argentina has no money to put 6 stadiums in FIFA shape at this very moment. Actually they don't have money even to fix the Buenos Aires Airport radar or pay the debt they have with Venezuela...

Also, Copa America 2011 is considered by Argentine press a fiasco, lots of reporters and supporters were robbed outside and INSIDE the stadiums, La Plata stadium have sand instead of grass and Monumental stadium at Final match was not at its better shape.

Other thing I noticed is that despite La Plata and San Juan, all stadia looked really not nice on TV (too small for the crowds and dark at night matches).

We have the Argentine Championship here in Brazilian pay-TV and sometimes I can't believe in some stadiums we see hosting Serie A from Argentina. In Brazil the authorities will never accept those stadiums for crowded main competitions...

If Argentina and Uruguay are dreaming of 2030, they need to put order at home first (Argentina mainly, since Uruguay is a very nice country, but too tiny).

If Argentina Uruguay hosts the 2030 World Cup, 8 host cities are pretty enough for the competition.

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How about building a stadium in Punta del Este, Uruguay at about 45,000 and then the stadium is downgraded to 5,000-10,000 to host beach volleyball soccer etc.

In the summer the place is a tourist hot spot.

There are more people living in my neighbourhood district than in Punta del Este, the Uruguayan coastal city is home for 19,000 souls.

The entire department (state/province) of Maldonado is 114,000 inhabitants. I'm not sure a 45,000 stadium there would have demand.

Anyway it's an amazing place, I can tell you. I've been there and loved. Very charming city, also the neighbour city of Maldonado is very nice. :)

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Well, the city of Maldonado (really close to Punta) already have a 22,000 capacity stadium, that hosted Copa America matches in 1995.

dibujo.jpg

The glorious Estadio Domingo Burgueño Miguel. :)

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Reindeer, with all FIFA requirements, Monumental de Nuñez will never reach 80k capacity. Perhaps they have to semi-demolish the stadium like Rio is doing with Maracana, since Monumental is a pretty old stadium.

Argentina has no money to put 6 stadiums in FIFA shape at this very moment. Actually they don't have money even to fix the Buenos Aires Airport radar or pay the debt they have with Venezuela...

Also, Copa America 2011 is considered by Argentine press a fiasco, lots of reporters and supporters were robbed outside and INSIDE the stadiums, La Plata stadium have sand instead of grass and Monumental stadium at Final match was not at its better shape.

Other thing I noticed is that despite La Plata and San Juan, all stadia looked really not nice on TV (too small for the crowds and dark at night matches).

We have the Argentine Championship here in Brazilian pay-TV and sometimes I can't believe in some stadiums we see hosting Serie A from Argentina. In Brazil the authorities will never accept those stadiums for crowded main competitions...

If Argentina and Uruguay are dreaming of 2030, they need to put order at home first (Argentina mainly, since Uruguay is a very nice country, but too tiny).

If Argentina Uruguay hosts the 2030 World Cup, 8 host cities are pretty enough for the competition.

Believe me Danny I know, I have not only watched matches on television but I've personally been to almost a dozen stadiums in Argentina, including Nuñez, and I know of the monumental task (no pun intended) needed to get them in shape for FIFA standards. That's why it's good to begin so early, after all Brasil has known for many many years that they would host in 2014 and they haven't used that time as well as they could have. And why the hell are they making their task even more difficult by playing in places like Cuiaba and Manaus?

Of course the Monumental would have to be partly or completely demolished and rebuilt à la Soccer City or Maracana, the running tracks would also have to vanish.

You say you don't see that bad stadiums in Brasil but let me remind you of these incidents:

Brazil stadium seating collapses, injuring about 110

Brazil stadium collapse kills eight people

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Believe me Danny I know, I have not only watched matches on television but I've personally been to almost a dozen stadiums in Argentina, including Nuñez, and I know of the monumental task (no pun intended) needed to get them in shape for FIFA standards. That's why it's good to begin so early, after all Brasil has known for many many years that they would host in 2014 and they haven't used that time as well as they could have. And why the hell are they making their task even more difficult by playing in places like Cuiaba and Manaus?

Of course the Monumental would have to be partly or completely demolished and rebuilt à la Soccer City or Maracana, the running tracks would also have to vanish.

You say you don't see that bad stadiums in Brasil but let me remind you of these incidents:

Brazil stadium seating collapses, injuring about 110

Brazil stadium collapse kills eight people

I'm totally against Cuiaba be chosen as host city. It was a stupid political choice. The city itself is not even a national-major capital.

Manaus was chosen because FIFA wanted a host city in the middle of Amazon to sell green games.

Manaus is a huge and RICH city and the stadium can be downgraded and converted in a place for shows, conventions and this kind of stuff.

About timing, as I told many times here, the biggest problem of Brazil, as a country indeed, is bureaucracy.

Lots of tenders, environmental licenses should be get before start building a stadium. That's why only now, all 12 stadium are under works. And ten of them are expected to be ready before December 2013, this date is a FIFA requirement.

About the eight-dead-people episode, this very case led Brazil to more tough restrictions about stadiums. (Of course this is not news for Int'l media, only the disaster itself).

The new law does not allow main events to be held in stadiums like those.

Indeed, that stadium was demolished already and is one of the most advanced for the World Cup. No serie A match can be held in a old-structure stadium anymore, which led many clubs to start building new stadiums (despite being World Cup host venues).

The second link you've posted here is from some regional event in the countryside of Parana state and clearly overcrowded temporary structure. This kind of **** happens everywhere in the world in small events. I can post several links here too.

My point about Argentine championship is about their SERIE A. :)

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I think that Argentina dreaming about hosting the World Cup at this moment is a reaaaally bad joke. They have just hosted the worst Copa América in the past years... the stadiums weren't the problems: it was the organization. They couldn't manage the ticket selling, the press, the accommodations, the broadcasting, etc, etc...

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I think that Argentina dreaming about hosting the World Cup at this moment is a reaaaally bad joke. They have just hosted the worst Copa América in the past years... the stadiums weren't the problems: it was the organization. They couldn't manage the ticket selling, the press, the accommodations, the broadcasting, etc, etc...

The stadium had problems. We can not forget the sand episode at La Plata stadium or the security inside stadiums, where, at least a dozen of journalists had equipment robbed - This is a serious issue.

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1392449-los-robos-a-periodistas-el-otro-record-de-la-copa-america

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It's a shame too because with all of the history Argentina has with soccer, I think the country is more than deserving to host another World Cup and perhaps an Olympics, but as has been mentioned, the problems at Copa America present serious red flags to any future World Cup bid.

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Under the present rotation system, we can't have applications from Asia or Europe for 2026. Only Africa and the Americas will bid. If Argentina and Uruguay focus in 2030 will open the way to USA to host in 2026. The maximum period that Europe waited to receive a world cup was between 2006 and 2018. This same interval would be repeated between 2018 and 2030. It is unlikely that the world cup 2030 will be outside Europe. The next Cup in South America is more likely to occur in 2034.

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Under the present rotation system, we can't have applications from Asia or Europe for 2026. Only Africa and the Americas will bid. If Argentina and Uruguay focus in 2030 will open the way to USA to host in 2026. The maximum period that Europe waited to receive a world cup was between 2006 and 2018. This same interval would be repeated between 2018 and 2030. It is unlikely that the world cup 2030 will be outside Europe. The next Cup in South America is more likely to occur in 2034.

Yes, I have thought about it too. Still, I doubt if the rotation will exist for 2026 race. It was after all necessary only to guarantee 2010 to (South) Africa and 2014 for South America. For 2018/2022 rotation played nicely too because it ensured that Europe would battle for the first and the rest of the world for the second opportunity. It's still at least five years until the bidding for 2026 starts and in that time FIFA could decide about a lot of things. They could just say that only the previous host continent is excluded. If not, there wouldn't be that many credible candidates, USA, maybe Mexico, possibly Colombia and that's almost it. Sure Morocco and Egypt could throw their hats in but after Qatar why go to an Arabic-speaking country again?

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