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Ceremonies on UTube, Pt 2


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:blink::blink: How can one argue with that statement - a 2nd arrow which people NEVER saw fly???????????????????????????????????????

I just wanted to emphasize that only one shot was enough for the lighting.I stated it logically,so sorry if I made you confused.

And in previous page,God Ikaros from Greece,no,God Ikarus360 from Venezuela explained the situations very well.You can listen to his words of wisdom again as follows;

^^ Old news. The arrow never actually hit the cauldron, since it was very difficult and risky. So the official transmission of the opening ceremony used certain camera angles to make it look as if the arrow actually lit the cauldron. It was still spectacular, though.

Stay calm Sir. BP ;)

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Good thing you clarified, I was about to say that there was no 1992 Winter Olympics and Paralympics Games in Albertville Minnesota United States of America North America.

Yeah, it was based on a very simple principle. As I stated in my book, it's like "...lighting a gas stove." The gas jets get turned on; you brush it with a small flame...and voila...that's it. I guess it's just that people want to disbelieve the utter simplicity of the feat...and are looking for ways to think they were deceived somehow.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Yeah, it was based on a very simple principle. As I stated in my book, it's like "...lighting a gas stove." The gas jets get turned on; you brush it with a small flame...and voila...that's it. I guess it's just that people want to disbelieve the utter simplicity of the feat...and are looking for ways to think they were deceived somehow.

... such as the interestng detail that the flame visibly spread upwards from the bowl, not down from the supposed arrow ignition point. But so what? It's symbolic, and Barcelona's particular symbolism was sheer genius.

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... such as the interestng detail that the flame visibly spread upwards from the bowl, not down from the supposed arrow ignition point. But so what? It's symbolic, and Barcelona's particular symbolism was sheer genius.

Of course, how else would a flame travel? Duh!! Do you even own a gas stove?

Do you think the arrow is like a flamethrower in that you can direct the flame downwards? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Again...your interpretation doesn't answer the question of why they would rehearse it over 2 dozen times if they could "cheat" all along?? :blink:

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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^^ I really hope someone uploads the full opening of Sarajevo and the closing of Albertville. I've been wanting to see them for a long time but there are only some excerpts of the whole picture in Youtube.

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Of course, how else would a flame travel? Duh!! Do you even own a gas stove?

Do you think the arrow is like a flamethrower in that you can direct the flame downwards? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Again...your interpretation doesn't answer the question of why they would rehearse it over 2 dozen times if they could "cheat" all along?? :blink:

I do indeed own a gas stove, and it does actually illustrate, after a fashion, the point I was making- if you look closely at one of the hob burners as it ignites, you'll see the flame propagate round the ring from the ignition point. However, the Barcelona Olympic torch situation is better illustrated by a single-stream burner (i.e. a Bunsen burner). Pay very close attention between 3 and 4 seconds in this video:

-and you'll see that the flame propagates sideways and down through the gas/air mix from the ignition point to the burner mouth. That is what we would have seen if the Barcelona arrow had ignited the cauldron while travelling over it.

However, if you check the Barcelona OC official video, it really does look as if the arrow lands in the cauldron, because it passes over it on a very well-calculated trajectory. That is what took practice- ensuring that, despite any winds which might have been blowing at the time, the arrow passed directly over the cauldron on its downward curve, at an ideal height.

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^^ I really hope someone uploads the full opening of Sarajevo and the closing of Albertville. I've been wanting to see them for a long time but there are only some excerpts of the whole picture in Youtube.

What's so special about opening of Sarajevo and closing Alvertville?Or you're just looking for them 'cause you've never watched them?

And dear Baron,you may understand clearly about the flame of Barcelona 1992 if you read this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Summer_Olympics

Go to "2.Highlight" and then read 2nd paragraph. You can find the answer about the cauldron,I hope. ;)

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What's so special about opening of Sarajevo and closing Alvertville?Or you're just looking for them 'cause you've never watched them?

And dear Baron,you may understand clearly about the flame of Barcelona 1992 if you read this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Summer_Olympics

Go to "2.Highlight" and then read 2nd paragraph. You can find the answer about the cauldron,I hope. ;)

Great find, although I couldn't find a verification on the internet yet about that Reyes Abades who lit the cauldron by remote. But that scenario sounds highly probable, due to the flame shooting upwards instead of downwards from the trajectory of the arrow.

And I think it has been standard for almost all or even all Olympic cauldrons in the past few decades that they also had an automatic lighting mechanism, regardless whether that mechanism was needed or not. London's cauldron, for example, consisted only of automatic lighters - otherwise, the flame couldn't have "travelled" around the whole cauldron after only seven petals had been lit with the real flame from the torches of the seven final torchbearers. And Beijing's cauldron sure as hell also had an automatic lighter - I don't think that the flame really travelled directly into the cauldron via that spiral fuse.

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What's so special about opening of Sarajevo and closing Alvertville?Or you're just looking for them 'cause you've never watched them?

And dear Baron,you may understand clearly about the flame of Barcelona 1992 if you read this;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Summer_Olympics

Go to "2.Highlight" and then read 2nd paragraph. You can find the answer about the cauldron,I hope. ;)

Uhmmm...#1 - I looked at your reference. Its attributed source is Footnote #8 from the Barcelona Official Report. I followed the link to the Official Report on page 70. This is what is stated in the OR:

For the first time at the Games, an archer

would ignite the fire which would preside
day and night from the cauldron over the
competitions with a flaming arrow. The
torch carried by the last bearer touched
the arrow and the archer, Antonio
Rebollo, a Paralympic athlete, prepared
to shoot with the precision which
characterises one of the most ancient
Olympic sports.
The arrow described an arc and lit the gas
issuing from the cauldron; the flame
soared up to a height of three metres. The
most eagerly awaited moment of the
ceremony had come and gone to general
acclamation.

There is NO MENTION of the so-called technician "Reyes Abades" (name which appears in Wikipedia) in the official version of things. This is some technician giving his version of things.

#2 - Wikipedia is NOT always the most reliable source. Anyone can go in AND EDIT the content, and unless vetted by someone who has real credentials, then even false and incorrect information stays in. Let me quote from the book MASTER OF THE CEREMONIES by Ric Birch, who was the Executive Producer for the Barcelona 1992 ceremonies. His account on the Lighting episode runs from pages 171-175. I will only reproduce one paragraph form page 174-5:

"The prototype had a tin funnel from a Singer sewing machine as its arrowhead because Reyes (the technician's real name was Reyes Abad and he only worked on the arrow) thought that the shape of the flame would be improved if he controlled the airflow. The cloth around the shaft was impregnated with kerosene and a kid of napalm, so there was never any chance that it wouldn't ignite or that it would extinguished by the rush of the air. Over the next eighteen months, the design was refined and more than 700 test arrows were fired, mostly to demonstrate its reliability to others. Jim Easton, who is the head of the Archery Federation and also owns the company that makes the arrows used for Olympic competition, came to see us. He had heard how we were planning to light the cauldron, and volunteered to manufacture a special heavy-walled, long shaft for the arrow, as well as provide technical advice. He said that Reyes had the balance of the arrow virtually perfect from the beginning, but that a heavier and longer shaft would make it more accurate. After the first demonstration at Montjuic, we were never in doubt that Reyes' arrow would work, and on the evening of the opening ceremony it was Antonio Rebollo who fired that unforgettable arrow to light the cauldron. ... But it didn't seem to affect Rebollo's nerves or his timing, and he pulled off a perfect shot with the whole world watching."

Again, nowhere does the EXECUTIVE PRODUCER of the whole thing mention that this behind-the-scenes technician "lit the cauldron." Whomever did the original Wikipedia attribution which you quoted, couldn't even get the guy's name right. I also just looked at the so-called Spanish newspaper source -- there is no mention of Reyes Abad making this claim. Again, it is only some conspiracy theorist throwing in his/her altered, incorrect version of events.

Believe what you will, palette, but I am now going to correct that misinformation on Wikipedia.

Great find, although I couldn't find a verification on the internet yet about that Reyes Abades who lit the cauldron by remote. But that scenario sounds highly probable, due to the flame shooting upwards instead of downwards from the trajectory of the arrow.

And I think it has been standard for almost all or even all Olympic cauldrons in the past few decades that they also had an automatic lighting mechanism, regardless whether that mechanism was needed or not. London's cauldron, for example, consisted only of automatic lighters - otherwise, the flame couldn't have "travelled" around the whole cauldron after only seven petals had been lit with the real flame from the torches of the seven final torchbearers. And Beijing's cauldron sure as hell also had an automatic lighter - I don't think that the flame really travelled directly into the cauldron via that spiral fuse.

Yes, there is a back-up plan.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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What's so special about opening of Sarajevo and closing Alvertville?Or you're just looking for them 'cause you've never watched them?

The opening of Sarajevo '84 was like a mini Moscow 1980 ceremony, plus it had a very lighthearted and friendly feeling. Sadly we all know what would happen in this city 10 years after these games.

As for Albertville, these ceremonies were very innovative and artistic back then. It was the first Olympic opening ceremony to be staged at night (although starting at dawn) and had a very Cirqe du Soleil feeling on it. The opening is up in Youtube but the closing is missing and the Lillehammer '94 handover was probably one of the best handovers ever, beautifully done and a sneak peak of the wonderful 1994 games.

Tssk, also Athens 2004 director said Albertville was his inspiration for his ceremonies. If you watch them you can notice a lot of similarities on the style.

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The opening of Sarajevo '84 was like a mini Moscow 1980 ceremony, plus it had a very lighthearted and friendly feeling. Sadly we all know what would happen in this city 10 years after these games.

As for Albertville, these ceremonies were very innovative and artistic back then. It was the first Olympic opening ceremony to be staged at night (although starting at dawn) and had a very Cirqe du Soleil feeling on it. The opening is up in Youtube but the closing is missing and the Lillehammer '94 handover was probably one of the best handovers ever, beautifully done and a sneak peak of the wonderful 1994 games.

Tssk, also Athens 2004 director said Albertville was his inspiration for his ceremonies. If you watch them you can notice a lot of similarities on the style.

If I found the videos I'll enjoy watching them having interests. ;) Thank you that you told me about their details precisely :) .

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I still believe in all I saw in the video that I picked up and I will.I concluded the arrow flew over the cauldron and the flame was lit automatically somehow and by someone.

And to Baron,thanks you very much :) and I'm really glad to discuss Barcelona's Olympic flame with you. ;)

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I might be imagining it, but I think I remember a while back, an image appearing here showing the arrow implanted in the field behind the stadium. Either way, it's very well known that the arrow never went in the cauldron, it was never meant to. The actual arrow itself is in the Olympic museum, I presume it'll go on display when it reopens. Goodness knows how you'll light your cauldron in Tokyo, maybe a real Yoshi might be used :lol:

I realllly hope Tokyo brings things back to basics with a very simple and powerful direct lighting - perhaps by using the 1964 cauldron.

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I realllly hope Tokyo brings things back to basics with a very simple and powerful direct lighting - perhaps by using the 1964 cauldron.

R u kidding? A samurai Miss Kitty will chop off Godzi's head and the cauldron will come out of that!!

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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Well, I thought it had died, but the Olympic opening ceremony database appears to have come back, Lillehammer & Turin have come up in the last couple of days & I guess that the other WOG OCs will be coming up soon. Great resource for ceremony fans:

http://www.olympicceremony.org/

the video for london 2012 is sub par. he should like the youtube one

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I realllly hope Tokyo brings things back to basics with a very simple and powerful direct lighting - perhaps by using the 1964 cauldron.

But the cauldron will be completely antique-like by 2020.Maybe you find brown rusts and some mosses grown.I personally think the cauldron won't match super-futuristic Hadid's design.So it's better to keep it somewhere of the new national stadium and display it to the public permanently.

Here's the video of recent National stadium;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuG9CeuJUt0

The event was done before the J-league match FC Tokyo vs FC Sagantosu(8/27 or 28).The official mascot of FC Tokyo,"Tokyo drompa" lit the fire to wish the best luck in Buenos Aires.

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There is NO MENTION of the so-called technician "Reyes Abades" (name which appears in Wikipedia) in the official version of things. This is some technician giving his version of things.

Reyes Abades is not "some technician"- he is one of the world's leading FX specialists.

http://www.ceumedia.es/reproductor/22075/n67-reyes-abades-experto-en-efectos-especiales

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0007614/

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Reyes Abades is not "some technician"- he is one of the world's leading FX specialists.

http://www.ceumedia.es/reproductor/22075/n67-reyes-abades-experto-en-efectos-especiales

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0007614/

OK, I stand corrected. But in the original cite in the Wikipedia article (or at least the one Spanish article that I looked at, he wasn't even named) and in Ric Birch's book, he is named as "Reyes Abad" -- so you also can't blame me for the confusion.

But the point is...and again, who do we go by? I believe he was consulted to perfect the whole shooting scheme and in the excerpt from Birch's book, he (Abades) seems to have put his expertise into perfecting the right arrow. Even in the clip you first link-up, Sr. Abades explains that they had to get the "arc" right. There is also the situation of having a back-up plan to ignite the cauldron by itself should the arrow not do it. So I ask you or whomever...

- why would they line up Rebollo and 2 back-up archers?

- why would they practice over 2 dozen times?

- why would they go through 700 arrows...

if they were just going to cheat all along with a sleight-of-hand? If they were going to use a switch to light the cauldron, they didn't need a Special Effects person for that. It's a matter of indeed "some technician" just flipping the starter at the right time. Further the cauldron was built and set at a height that allowed for a safe, viable arc of the arrow to accomplish the job. So again, there would be no need to cheat.

I believe Abades' role got blown out of proportion and mis-attributed; and which conspiracy theory also insults the integrity of Birch and his Ovideo-Bassat team.

Edited by baron-pierreIV
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you also can't blame me for the confusion.

Even in the clip you first link-up, Sr. Abades explains that they had to get the "arc" right. There is also the situation of having a back-up plan to ignite the cauldron by itself should the arrow not do it. So I ask you or whomever...

- why would they line up Rebollo and 2 back-up archers?

- why would they practice over 2 dozen times?

- why would they go through 700 arrows...

if they were just going to cheat all along with a sleight-of-hand? If they were going to use a switch to light the cauldron, they didn't need a Special Effects person for that. It's a matter of indeed "some technician" just flipping the starter at the right time. Further the cauldron was built and set at a height that allowed for a safe, viable arc of the arrow to accomplish the job. So again, there would be no need to cheat.

I believe Abades' role got blown out of proportion and mis-attributed; and which conspiracy theory also insults the integrity of Birch and his Ovideo-Bassat team.

This is a rather interesting situation. Here's the first Wikipedia mention of Reyes Abades' involvement with the Barcelona cauldron lighting, the result of painstaking edits over two days by user Chairman21, on 13-14 August 2008:

"Paralympic archer Antonio Rebollo lit the Olympic Flame by firing a burning arrow, not into, but over the cauldron with the decent deliberately obscured by the supporting arm of the structure. The arrow was in fact ignited by a special effects technician, by remote control, employed by the Reyes Abades company from Madrid. It was deemed too dangerous to light the Olympic flame with the arrow crashing into the cauldron as in rehearsals it had repeatedly bounced out and onto the (empty) spectator seats. Many videos on the internet clearly demonstrate how the arrow passed 1.5 meters over the cauldron and the ignition point was from below, after the arrow had cleared the immediate area with the flame travelling upwards and outwards contrary to the expected result."

Unfortunately, no references were provided for this very detailed analysis, almost certainly based on personal inside knowledge, and it was removed within hours. All of it. For a while, the article simply made no mention of the cauldron lighting!

Ever since, the problem for Wikipedia has been that, although- as I have indicated over the past couple of days- the "scientific" evidence" shows the arrow did not light the cauldron, the official account states that it did.

For more on the rehearsals, see:

http://elpais.com/diario/2002/07/26/catalunya/1027645648_850215.html

In the end, I think the situation was simply that, because the arrow took only a fraction of a second to pass over the cauldron, there was not enough time to decide "oh bother, the arrow hasn't ignited the gas, we'd better use the backup system", so the backup system was fired routinely at the moment the arrow passed over the cauldron- and as it happens, the scientific evidence suggests that this was the correct strategy.

PS: I blame Ric Birch for the confusion.

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