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Dallas 2020


Sir Rols

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Anybone that ventures to associate the term "piss pot middling" with either Atlanta or Dallas moves in very limited circles. If Neiman Marcus took a dump, you might be flushing Hold Renfrew.

Oh CRAP!!! (no pun intended) ...should have typed HOLT Renfrew. hehehe

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I don't think that they were referring to Atlanta or Dallas as such, per se, rather than the likes of cities like Tulsa or Birmingham or Pittsburgh that have publicly come out & stated that they want to bid for the Olympics which is obviously beyond their reach. Or other places like Minneapolis, Houston, Indianapolis, Tampa, Charlotte, Detroit, etc, that have had their "stauch" supporters on these forums as Olympic host hopefuls.

What has to be realized by these people is that not every corner of the globe is going to get the chance to host this grandeur thing. In the 125 years of the Olympic Movement, there have been less than 30 cities that have hosted the Summer Olympic Games. So that calculates that the likelihood of the stuffy, fastidious, demanding, Euro-centric bunch of old farts from Lausaunne coming to your 'piss pot middling' neck-of-the-woods is virtually next to nil. And that would be on a good day.

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My point was that every middle-range city that considers a bid says to itself "hey, if Atlanta won in 1990 and we're at the stage they were back then, logic says we can win"...which is a flawed argument because the Olympic Movement of 2011 has had some premiere world cities bid for and host the Summer Games and it is doubtful that Atlanta would ever get a second chance to host.

As for for the Vancouver Games, yes, I enjoyed them very much. I live in Vancouver, watched and cheered it on from the time of the domestic bid in December 1998 through to next week's 1 year anniversary. And during the Games, I was surrounded by it every second of the day for two full weeks. So I feel passionately about the subject - sure VANOC made decisions I didn't agree with and I've stated that, but those Games have a deep personal meaning to me. So, if you didn't enjoy the Vancouver games, fine, that's your opinion. I felt the same way about the Torino and the Nagano Games and I am convinced that Sochi is a poor choice and that Pyeongchang is an inadequate bid. Those are my opinions. We all have one.

Because of the requirements of snow, ice, and mountains, the rules are different for the Winter Games. I'd say that in the world of winter sport, Calgary is a giant. Back when they hosted, they were the second largest city to have hosted the Winter Games (only Sapporo was bigger) and their games were innovative with a lasting legacy for the city and for sport. I remember Calgary 88 very fondly.

But if you think the likes of Tulsa, Dallas, Houston and Minneapolis (without New York, Chicago and San Francisco) can outshine the likes of Rome, Paris, Istanbul, and Tokyo...go for it!

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Let's consider "world class" cities vs. "middle-rage" wanna-bes. WORLD GDP RANKING #14 DALLAS #17 ATLANTA #19 HOUSTON #21 SEOUL #22 TORONTO #32 MINNEAPOLIS #38 BEIJING #41 MONTREAL #68 VANCOUVER This is why it seems a joke that some people would describe Dallas as a "piss pot middling" city; I mean really do you know anything about Dallas? And I don't really see anybody talking about Tulsa except foreigners who's top "world class" city only ranks #22 and next best showing at #41. I don't even think Tulsa's talking about Tulsa let alone anyone else stateside.

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Have to say, I've never seen anyone use GDP as a factor in an Olympic bid question, but so be it...

Yeah. I barely know anything about Dallas. Other than the Cowboys, the JFK assassination and J.R. Ewing (and he's just as real as Dallas' chance at the Olympics). That's the reason why Dallas will not be hosting the Olympics any time soon. The city has limited international presence or appeal.

I'd wager most international folks know little about it. But we certainly know lots about New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, San Francisco, and Washington or even Boston, Miami, Seattle, Philadelphia...the list of potential USOC candidates is big. The domestic competition alone puts Dallas in the second or third tier. And let's not overlook the fact that the USOC is not even going to place a bid for 2020.

Dallas Olympics? Not a shot in hell.

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Let's consider "world class" cities vs. "middle-rage" wanna-bes. WORLD GDP RANKING #14 DALLAS #17 ATLANTA #19 HOUSTON #21 SEOUL #22 TORONTO #32 MINNEAPOLIS #38 BEIJING #41 MONTREAL #68 VANCOUVER This is why it seems a joke that some people would describe Dallas as a "piss pot middling" city; I mean really do you know anything about Dallas? And I don't really see anybody talking about Tulsa except foreigners who's top "world class" city only ranks #22 and next best showing at #41. I don't even think Tulsa's talking about Tulsa let alone anyone else stateside.

Since when do GDP rankings ever play on the IOC's mind (see: Rio, Athens, Durban etc)?

While Dallas may be an important economic centre, when you consider ALL other factors it really does fall into the world's middle-class of cities along with places like Houston, Manchester (UK), Munich, Melbourne and Cape Town. Yes you may notice a trend their of previous host cities and I am certainly not disagreeing that Dallas isn't capable.

The question is why? Dallas (like Atlanta) has plenty of capacity to host the Games, but why would the IOC go there. It has little prestige compared to other potential US bid cities (New York, LA, Chicago) despite it's economic strength.

Why would the IOC go to a middle class city, in a region they've already covered, with no clear point of difference between Atlanta, when there are plenty of alternatives on the table.

Ok, so you're an IOC member and it's time to vote;

Go!

Dallas vs Rome

Dallas vs New York

Dallas vs Toronto

Dallas vs Cape Town/Durban

Dallas vs Rio

On face value I'd chose the later every time.

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GDP plays a role, doesn't everything? And it's at least a measurable gauge (unlike Olympic groupies personal opinions) of a cities international presence. You can imagine all you want that cities like Dallas, Atlanta, Houston and even Philadelphia are Middle level cities, but in international and power circles these cities are players beyond most tier one cities in the majority of countries. Last I checked money seems to have a prominent place in influencing world events. (see Rio, Sochi, Qatar, Russia, Beijing, Salt Lake, even Atlanta hehehe) Impossible to say you won't see an Olympics in Dallas (did you expect one in Atlanta), I'm not advocating for such, but these US cities are much more than many of you try to make them out to be. I don't even think the US should bother bidding for any summer again...period....I mean there's nothing to prove. It probably won't be forever till the IOC comes running in need for whatever reason, and we'll be here, if we're in the mood.

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Another reason this would never work: the local media who cover sports in Dallas are cynics and hypocrites.

An example of the sports media in Dallas being hypocrites is whenever they bash Dallas Cowboys QB Tony Romo for wearing a baseball cap on backwards and yet when Texas Rangers Baseball player Ian Kinsler does it in a post-game lockeroom interview, nobody in the media cares. The local media would bash the Olympics like no other, because that's what they do. Yes, the Dallas Cowboys have a higher profile in Dallas, but it needs to be equal criticism.

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OK...

1. Houston has a more renowned Opera company than Dallas -- seriously, that's more important in Olympic bidding circles than cities' GDP rankings.

2. After the seating fiascos this past SB weekend, I think Dallas won't see an Olympics for at least another 60 years.

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Well, Albuquerque would be an interesting Winter destination, incredible environment, posh Santa Fe, but 2 hours to the best slopes might be too far, but I guess they did it in Vancouver with an even more difficult drive up. Some people might be SHOCKED to find out how vast the alpine environments are in the region, Taos is heaven, Red River is bliss if your are cross country inclined. Austin is a great city, don't really know much about the others, Memphis sounds like an interesting city, but I don't think we are talking Olympics here....I hope. I get it......now we are just descending to try to point out how some Americans think all their cities can host.....not really what I was talking about. Don't get me started on Houston, it's even more misunderstood by "non-Americans" than Dallas, it's an incredibly sophisticated city.

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I think the point most people are making here is that while Dallas is no doubt financially strong from a GDP perspective, within the context of what it is as a city and what it offers the world it is insignificant to most people.

Let me try and put a crass measure on this. Lets say we have Dallas and Durban.

1) Dallas's economy is many times the size of ours, is a much bigger city and the naive person would toss Durban aside as having no hope against it on paper.

BUT things are vastly more complex than that. Both cities are rather unknown globally - people will know the name and not really be able to tell you much about them. But this is the Olympics, and as others have pointed out it is what the cities can offer the movement. Durban offers new continent, a beautiful location, passion to uplift a continent/nation/city and a legacy to country that can stand as a beacon of what the IOC can do for the world - it gives them bragging rights and people will pat them on the back. Lots of reasons to vote.

Then you have Dallas. What will Dallas give them? Countless questions. "Why Dallas and not one of the big US cities?" Heck even Americans will be very confused as to the selection. Without sounding rude, it will make the IOC look stupid in most people's eyes.

Thats the key difference. So even though Durban is nothing at all compared to Dallas financially in an IOC race that means absolutely nothing.

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I think the point most people are making here is that while Dallas is no doubt financially strong from a GDP perspective, within the context of what it is as a city and what it offers the world it is insignificant to most people.

Let me try and put a crass measure on this. Lets say we have Dallas and Durban.

1) Dallas's economy is many times the size of ours, is a much bigger city and the naive person would toss Durban aside as having no hope against it on paper.

BUT things are vastly more complex than that. Both cities are rather unknown globally - people will know the name and not really be able to tell you much about them. But this is the Olympics, and as others have pointed out it is what the cities can offer the movement. Durban offers new continent, a beautiful location, passion to uplift a continent/nation/city and a legacy to country that can stand as a beacon of what the IOC can do for the world - it gives them bragging rights and people will pat them on the back. Lots of reasons to vote.

Then you have Dallas. What will Dallas give them? Countless questions. "Why Dallas and not one of the big US cities?" Heck even Americans will be very confused as to the selection. Without sounding rude, it will make the IOC look stupid in most people's eyes.

Thats the key difference. So even though Durban is nothing at all compared to Dallas financially in an IOC race that means absolutely nothing.

I wouldn't rate Dallas highly myself as an internationally appealing destination that could fire the imagination, and I don't know what it is about the USOC's stated policy of "no bid for 2020" that the likes of it and other US cities don't understand, but if they were to make a serious go at it for 2020 (or whenever) I'm sure they could come up with a good "story" to sell. No bidder is going to lay down and run flat because they may face Durban - Durban is certainly not "unbeatable" (or even a favourite at this stage, IMO), and all bidders are going to have to come up with more of a "story" than simply "we're glamorous".

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, and I don't know what it is about the USOC's stated policy of "no bid for 2020" that the likes of it and other US cities don't understand,

It's just loose mouths and scatter-shot parties across the board (in this case, Mr. Jerry Jones) who just issue press releases about their dreams w/o realizing that it is lot more cumbersome and intricate process that merely announcing to one and all that the city wants to bid. I mean, aside from the IOC and the NOC's, its only people like us here and ATR and those who have actually worked on the bids who understand the process.

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Yeah, just sayin', but GDP by city doesn't seem to be much of an indicator of Olympic bid success. Look at the list of 13 above Dallas. And other past hosts in the Top 100 by GDP. Culture, history, geography, scenery, national and international prominence, sport culture, venues, infrastructure - they all factor in, and that's why many very rich cities have not had much success in landing the Olympic Games.

#1 Tokyo

#2 New York City

#3 Los Angeles

#4 Chicago

#5 London

#6 Paris

#7 Osaka

#8 Mexico City

#9 Philadelphia

#10 São Paulo

#11 Washington D.C.

#12 Boston

#13 Buenos Aires

Olympic host cities below Dallas' 14th place GDP ranking:

#15 Moscow

#17 Atlanta

#21 Seoul

#28 Sydney

#30 Rio de Janeiro

#35 Barcelona

#36 Melbourne

#38 Beijing

#41 Montreal

#43 Rome

#48 Saint Louis

#67 Athens

#68 Vancouver (winter host)

#69 Berlin

#82 Stockholm

#86 Turin (winter host)

#89 Munich

#96 Helsinki

Summer Games hosts missing from the Top 100 - Amsterdam & Antwerp.

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I'm not saying Dallas should host or could win.

I am only saying (over and over because you keep writing things that indicate you think I'm advocating a Dallas bid/run/win) that Dallas is a much more PROMINENT international city than you Olympic nuts are giving it credit for, and GDP has A LOT to do with that. You try to put down any American city other than New York. Face it....no other country on earth has 2 let alone 5 cities in the top 10 GDP. Is it a coincidence that the most prominent international cities have the highest GDP, no.

Little #68 Vancouver (only 20 places behind St Louis!) had a mystique and sparkle that has been dulled up by a lackluster showing at it's Olympic chance, timing is everything and perhaps it was too early or too late...no telling. Canadians sold their soul in an attempt to show that you are more than Americas hat. You were so much better before.

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OK, so enlighten us then. Other than GDP, what are the attributes that make Dallas a world class city? And yes, I'm aware that you are not advocating an Olympic bid. But consider this an opportunity to discuss with curious internationals about what makes the city great.

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I wouldn't rate Dallas highly myself as an internationally appealing destination that could fire the imagination, and I don't know what it is about the USOC's stated policy of "no bid for 2020" that the likes of it and other US cities don't understand, but if they were to make a serious go at it for 2020 (or whenever) I'm sure they could come up with a good "story" to sell. No bidder is going to lay down and run flat because they may face Durban - Durban is certainly not "unbeatable" (or even a favourite at this stage, IMO), and all bidders are going to have to come up with more of a "story" than simply "we're glamorous".

I in no way said Durban was unbeatable, Durban has a mammouth task ahead. But has a much easier story to sell than a Dallas

Yeah, just sayin', but GDP by city doesn't seem to be much of an indicator of Olympic bid success. Look at the list of 13 above Dallas. And other past hosts in the Top 100 by GDP. Culture, history, geography, scenery, national and international prominence, sport culture, venues, infrastructure - they all factor in, and that's why many very rich cities have not had much success in landing the Olympic Games.

#1 Tokyo

#2 New York City

#3 Los Angeles

#4 Chicago

#5 London

#6 Paris

#7 Osaka

#8 Mexico City

#9 Philadelphia

#10 São Paulo

#11 Washington D.C.

#12 Boston

#13 Buenos Aires

Olympic host cities below Dallas' 14th place GDP ranking:

#15 Moscow

#17 Atlanta

#21 Seoul

#28 Sydney

#30 Rio de Janeiro

#35 Barcelona

#36 Melbourne

#38 Beijing

#41 Montreal

#43 Rome

#48 Saint Louis

#67 Athens

#68 Vancouver (winter host)

#69 Berlin

#82 Stockholm

#86 Turin (winter host)

#89 Munich

#96 Helsinki

Summer Games hosts missing from the Top 100 - Amsterdam & Antwerp.

Where do you source this from? some of those city placings surprise me

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OK, so enlighten us then. Other than GDP, what are the attributes that make Dallas a world class city? And yes, I'm aware that you are not advocating an Olympic bid. But consider this an opportunity to discuss with curious internationals about what makes the city great.

Well, the only thing Dallas has that is considered world class is this:

arlington_cowboys1.jpg

owned by him:

alg_jerry_jones.jpg

Dallas is a good American city, but it really isn't a tourist destination for internationals. Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, San Francisco and Miami are the American cities for Internationals. I would think that Philly and Boston would be more popular with Internationals than Dallas. Dallas is a good city for tourists from other parts of the country though. The Dallas Cowboys have fans all over the country and there would be people from all over the country who will go watch the Cowboys inside that world class stadium. Other than that stadium, there isn't really anything the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex has that can attract internationals. I live in Dallas and while there are some very attractive things about the area (DFW, not just Dallas proper) such as the museums and the theme parks as well as that stadium, its not an international city.

Well, the only thing Dallas has that is considered world class is this:

arlington_cowboys1.jpg

owned by him:

alg_jerry_jones.jpg

Dallas is a good American city, but it really isn't a tourist destination for internationals. Los Angeles, New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Washington DC and Miami are the American cities for Internationals. I would think that Philly and Boston would be more popular with Internationals than Dallas. Dallas is a good city for tourists from other parts of the country though. The Dallas Cowboys have fans all over the country and there would be people from all over the country who will go watch the Cowboys inside that world class stadium. Other than that stadium, there isn't really anything the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex has that can attract internationals. I live in Dallas and while there are some very attractive things about the area (DFW, not just Dallas proper) such as the museums and the theme parks as well as that stadium, its not an international city.

Forgot to add Washington DC.

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oh good god....

Dallas has history, culture, art, lifestyle, cuisine, architecture, neighborhoods, sports, nature, recreation, religion, diversity, shopping, society etc etc etc all on par with most "glamor" capitols. Why do you think they have such an enormous economy...because it's dust bowl out in the middle of Texas with only a 7-11 and a Piggly Wiggly??? Duh! It AIN'T the sticks y'all.

I will say there is no beach and summer can be humid, that's probably the worst of it. But as far as modern culture, big city lifestyle and , and anything you would find in any major world city Dallas has it all...or more.

And some people think of Texas and the West in somewhat romantic terms, but that's obviously not your cup of tea.

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I don't understand your hostility when I'm being genuine about wanting to learn more about Dallas, but whatever.

I will say that Cowboys Stadium is a very impressive venue, I've heard loads of cool things about the music and culture scene in Austin and I've always had a fascination with El Paso and the surrounding area.

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Can a Dallas Olympics use the Cotton Bowl stadium? Or would a new athletic facility need to be constructed?

No doubt a Dallas bid both locally and internationally will be marketing itself on it's primary worldwide known asset, that Dallas TV series (which appropriately is making a return). I can easily see a bid video based on the Dallas TV show title, where the actors are replaced by well known American and more specifically Dallas sportspeople who are sponsors of the bid. Heck, why not add a bit of RoboCop while your at it. :P

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Can a Dallas Olympics use the Cotton Bowl stadium? Or would a new athletic facility need to be constructed?

No doubt a Dallas bid both locally and internationally will be marketing itself on it's primary worldwide known asset, that Dallas TV series (which appropriately is making a return). I can easily see a bid video based on the Dallas TV show title, where the actors are replaced by well known American and more specifically Dallas sportspeople who are sponsors of the bid. Heck, why not add a bit of RoboCop while your at it. :P

The new Dallas Cowboys Stadium would be used for the opening and closing ceremonies as well as the medal round in soccer. The Cotton Bowl would probably be used for Soccer preliminaries and probably hosting the medal round in Women's Soccer.

The venues would be like this:

Dallas Cowboys Stadium- Opening and closing ceremonies. Also possibly for medal round in soccer. Also possible for medal ceremonies. Jerry Jones has stated his stadium could host swimming.

Cotton Bowl Stadium- Men's Soccer Preliminaries. Possible for medal round in Women's Soccer.

American Airlines Center- Men's Basketball most likely. Also a possible venue for Womens Basketball.

Pizza Hut Park- Women's Soccer Prelims, possible for Field Hockey and/or Rugby Sevens.

Those would be the four main venues. I know that baseball and softball are no longer Olympic sports, but Rangers Ballpark would likely be in the plans as they've hosted beach volleyball before. Of course, as with all USA Summer Bids, there would have to be a venue for the track and field events. Texas at Arlington's Mavericks Stadium has a track but it only holds 15,000 and would need significant upgrades. North Texas' Fouts Field holds 30,000 and has a track surrounding it, but that stadium is going to be torn down in favor of a football only stadium.

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