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The Great Southern Challenge


Alexjc

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It's pretty clear from these boards that there's a a fair bit of grass roots support for the Winter Games to be held in the Southern Hemisphere.

It's also pretty clear from the realists and the critics, that this is a pretty tough task to achieve, if indeed it can  be achieved at all.

It's not as if there's a shortage of candidates _ Santiago de Chile, Bariloche (Argentina), Christchurch or elsewhere in NZ to name just the ones often mentioned here. And there's been some good suggestions made about how each can be achieved (and also a lot of points to shoot them down).

Anyway, I just thought I'd try to bring some of these ideas together into a new thread and try to get some suggestions about how the south can break the Northern Hemisphere monopoly. For example, is timing really an insuperable obstacle (winter athletes often, after all, come down south to train in the northern summer)? Or do any locations in the south have the ability to hold the games in the January-March period (year-round snow anywhere?)

Maybe it all is just too hard to do, but there's a lot of us on the bottom half of the globe who would like to think otherwise.

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Drag asorted 'wintery' landmasses (ala: Aotearoa, Chile) north of the equator placing them next to the friendly Norwegians . LOL.

I dunno.

I don't think it will happen unless the IOC makes a decision (much like the 'Africa for 2010' move from FIFA) to actually give the Southern Hemisphere bidding rights for a particular year.

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Basically until a Southern Hemisphere city bids, we wont be 100% certain to what the IOC will do.  Is a Winter Games in the last week of March for instance going to derail athletes preparations - since it will only be a few weeks outside the normal end of the Northern ski season??

Could Chile or NZ organise a Games and have sufficient capabilities to mobilise the moving of vast quantities of snow if the slopes are bare?  Will the IOC allow an artificial snow?

Until a city tries, we wont know.

Santiago, and Christchurch/Queenstown seem the likely candidates at this time.

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Ironically, about artificial snow, yes. Calgary, of all places, had artificial snow for the 1988 Winter Olympics. As a record (if you want to call it), Calgary was the warmest city to ever host the Winter Olympics at that time, no thanks to the Chinook winds. However, who knows what the IOC has to say about that now.
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As long as the artificial snow doesnt restrict athlete movement what does it matter?

It may be the only hope for some Southern Hemisphere countries.

Rule out Australia though - even in April the Australian Alps can get temperatures in excess of 20 degrees celcius.  Its NZ, or South America.  South Africa seems as long a long shot as Australia.

NZ has the courses, the resorts and the infrastructure.

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I think that the only time a Sthrn Hemisphere country will host is if the World Cup is held down here in the same year....a Feb/ Mar or Oct/ Nov World Cup leaving the door open for Australia, NZ, Chile or Argentina to host during June, July, August, September when their will be no problems with snow (hopefully).
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I think that the only time a Sthrn Hemisphere country will host is if the World Cup is held down here in the same year....a Feb/ Mar or Oct/ Nov World Cup leaving the door open for Australia, NZ, Chile or Argentina to host during June, July, August, September when their will be no problems with snow (hopefully).

An interesting and possibly feasible propsal. I wonder if a bidder would be able to make such a proposal as part of their bid?

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Could become political eg. Chile supports Argentina's bid for the WC, if they support Chile's bid for the WOG. Same goes for Australia and NZ... 'a memorandom of understanding' regarding the dates and other things could be reached. Maybe a deal could have been struck with SA for 2010, but its too late now.
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Well, since no Southern Hemisphere city has yet to bid for the OWG, it is unproven, but the timing of the season would be odd.  The Southern equivalent to the Northern Winter in January and February is June and July.  That's the middle of Summer in the more populous North and could very seriously conflict with the World Cup.  A Winter Game in September or October when it is Fall in the North and Spring in the South is an option, but that's the beginning of another winter season and would put the OWG 5 seasons away from the previous OWG (unless held at the start of the season in which case it would be Santiago 2017, not Santiago 2018, for example).
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Could become political eg. Chile supports Argentina's bid for the WC, if they support Chile's bid for the WOG. Same goes for Australia and NZ... 'a memorandom of understanding' regarding the dates and other things could be reached. Maybe a deal could have been struck with SA for 2010, but its too late now.

Going by that scenario, 2014 with the World Cup going to South America is the only chance for a while. It's probably far too soon, however, for South America to get a winter games bid up. I'm not holding my breath for Oceania to get a "turn" in the WC rotation. Despite Australia's ambitions for a WC, I reckon FIFA will manage to wrangle out of it someway _ maybe suggest Europe be given Oceania's turn in exchange for some deal on qualification (which will then get watered down again anyway).

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According to a source on another board FIFA will probably dump the rotation system after 2014 (2018 will already have been awarded though) so that Europe can host out of turn, then South America again as both these continents can hop into bed with each other and do what they like - with their superior voting numbers, they can force any changes they want. Also Sth America owes Europe a favour after they supported the Sth Americans tantrum over Oceania's qualification.
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I think the WOG are going to need a change, and going to the Southern Hemisphere would be the perfect change for them.....

So what if they are in June, lol mroe people actually have time to watch the Olympics in the Summer then in the middle of Winter

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Actually, you are wrong...more people watch way more TV in the winter than they do in the summer months.  That's why TV viewing ratings are ranked in February ("Sweeps Month")...that's also the time you have the Winter Olympics and its also around that time you have one of the biggest TV events in the USA - the Super Bowl.  In fact, one of the highest ranking TV events of the 1990's was the Women's Figure Skating competition at the Lillehammer Olympics (thanks Tonya Harding) - over 45 million Americans tuned in.
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A WOG in April is definantly an option for NZ - I can assure you all (Matty G - back me up!) its cold enough for the outdoor events and for decent snowfalls.

As for the WC - Oceania would get shafted very easily - FIFA if they continue the rotation will simply say - 2022 will go to Asia/Oceania and China will wipe out Australia/NZ.

Oceania is a pisshole soccer wise - and FIFA wont waste a rotation on us.

If they ditch the rotation - there is no way Australia will win over Argentina or England for instance.

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April would probably be fair enough compromise. And if artificfial snow was possible as a backup (and I've checked, it's been used at a few WOGs), Christchurch/Mt Hutt is starting to look like a bit more serious of a contender. Would NZ fork out the money for a refrigerated bobsleigh track?

How would the US TV networks (NBC) view it, though? Is April a good rating month, and would they want another time-delay situation like they had with Sydney?

It seems to me that a Southern WOG is shaping up as NZ versus Chile (Santiago). Maybe Santiago would win the IOCs favour as a way to give a games to South America without risking a Summer Games.

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A WOG in April is definantly an option for NZ - I can assure you all (Matty G - back me up!) its cold enough for the outdoor events and for decent snowfalls.

quote]

Yeah, I think some people always see New Zealand as a country in the South Pacific and assume that we walk around the place in grass skirts on the beach all day.

hmmm, not the case, it gets bloody cold down in the South Island during winter.

Infact, it gets bloody cold up here where I am too, not to the extent of snowfall , but still cold.

Infact, they've had some big snowfalls quite recently down in the South.

2227-15.jpg

Queenstown

I just hunted out my copy of 'The Case for Hosting the 2006 Winter Olympics in New Zealand' put together by the Christchurch 2006 'Winter Games Promotions' committee chaired by Bruce Ullrich (involved in the organising committee for the 1974 Christchurch Commonwealth Games).

A few points .

- Alpine Skiing: Mt Hutt  (research was undertaken by international experts and it was decided that it did have capabilities to hold these events). The vertical drop potential would have to be increased, but that could be done, with the addition of snow making facilities lower down. There is already a natural amphitheatre for finishing area.

- Freestyle Skiing : Mt Hutt / Porters Heights

(Coronet Peak, Cardrona and Treble Cone have also been mentioned for possible venues)

- Cross Country Skiing: Waiorau Nordic Ski Area, Pisa Range, Wanaka. An appropriate venue, with a good water supply available for snow making facilities, although there is just a prudent measure.

- Biathlon: Waiorau Nordic Ski Area, Pisa Range, Wanaka.

- Ski Jumping: Cardrona Range

- Nordic Combined: Pisa Range, Wanaka

- Bob/Luge : Mt Hutt, Christchurch.

- Figure Skating/Short Track : Christchurch

- Speed Skating: Lyttelton/Wigram area (with the possibility of using this as a temporary venue and after the Games turning it over to the Airforce Museum)

- Ice Hockey: Christchurch

- Ceremonies: Christchurch (Jade Stadium(40,000) or QE2 Stadium(with the addition of temporary seating) )

jade.jpg

stadium.jpg

Jade Stadium

Image2.gif

QE2 Stadium

westpactrust-centre.jpg

Westpac Centre (seating capacity : just under 8,000)

pic.jpg

Hanmer Springs near Christchurch

452ccm3.jpg

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Yeah, I think some people always see New Zealand as a country in the South Pacific and assume that we walk around the place in grass skirts on the beach all day.

I wish :P

I just hunted out my copy of 'The Case for Hosting the 2006 Winter Olympics in New Zealand' put together by the Christchurch 2006 'Winter Games Promotions' committee

:ooh: were did you get ahold of that   :shocked:

I think April would be pushing it. IMO Mid may.

Im going down to sth island in about 3 days with my school so it will be interesting to see what the snows like now only 3 weeks after corenet peak opeaned Im going to chch, mt hutt, dunedin and queenstown ive never been south of hanmer springs were my family has a house

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I got a photocopied version of the Christchurch report sent to me a number of years ago.

It's rather thick. LOL.

Hmmmm, I'm heading down to the South Island in early September on a uni fieldtrip - so that should be pretty cool . We're going to Wellington, Nelson, Kaikoura, Christchurch and then ax the Southern Alps on the Tranz-Alpine to Greymouth.  :grinning:

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I would just wish that by the time a Southern Hemisphere country decides to bite the bullet and bid (and it's bound to happen sometime), NZ and Santiago don't decide to bid at the same time and split whatever southern voting bloc there may be (I'm guessing a southern bid could get some sort of sympathy vote from the non-winter countries in Africam South America and Asia)
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A WOG in April is definantly an option for NZ - I can assure you all (Matty G - back me up!) its cold enough for the outdoor events and for decent snowfalls.

quote]

Yeah, I think some people always see New Zealand as a country in the South Pacific and assume that we walk around the place in grass skirts on the beach all day.

hmmm, not the case, it gets bloody cold down in the South Island during winter.

Infact, it gets bloody cold up here where I am too, not to the extent of snowfall , but still cold.

Infact, they've had some big snowfalls quite recently down in the South.

2227-15.jpg

Queenstown

I just hunted out my copy of 'The Case for Hosting the 2006 Winter Olympics in New Zealand' put together by the Christchurch 2006 'Winter Games Promotions' committee chaired by Bruce Ullrich (involved in the organising committee for the 1974 Christchurch Commonwealth Games).

A few points .

- Alpine Skiing: Mt Hutt  (research was undertaken by international experts and it was decided that it did have capabilities to hold these events). The vertical drop potential would have to be increased, but that could be done, with the addition of snow making facilities lower down. There is already a natural amphitheatre for finishing area.

- Freestyle Skiing : Mt Hutt / Porters Heights

(Coronet Peak, Cardrona and Treble Cone have also been mentioned for possible venues)

- Cross Country Skiing: Waiorau Nordic Ski Area, Pisa Range, Wanaka. An appropriate venue, with a good water supply available for snow making facilities, although there is just a prudent measure.

- Biathlon: Waiorau Nordic Ski Area, Pisa Range, Wanaka.

- Ski Jumping: Cardrona Range

- Nordic Combined: Pisa Range, Wanaka

- Bob/Luge : Mt Hutt, Christchurch.

- Figure Skating/Short Track : Christchurch

- Speed Skating: Lyttelton/Wigram area (with the possibility of using this as a temporary venue and after the Games turning it over to the Airforce Museum)

- Ice Hockey: Christchurch

- Ceremonies: Christchurch (Jade Stadium(40,000) or QE2 Stadium(with the addition of temporary seating) )

jade.jpg

stadium.jpg

Jade Stadium

Image2.gif

QE2 Stadium

westpactrust-centre.jpg

Westpac Centre (seating capacity : just under 8,000)

pic.jpg

Hanmer Springs near Christchurch

452ccm3.jpg

I was just looking at the suggested venues, don’t you think that some are very far away from each other it looked to me that most venues were based around to towns: Christchurch and Queenstown which are about a 400km apart and a 7 hour drive from each other. I problem is that Christchurch has the population but the Queenstown – southern lakes area has the snow. What do you think? Is it feasible to have venues so far apart?

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I was just looking at the suggested venues, don’t you think that some are very far away from each other it looked to me that most venues were based around to towns: Christchurch and Queenstown which are about a 400km apart and a 7 hour drive from each other. I problem is that Christchurch has the population but the Queenstown – southern lakes area has the snow. What do you think? Is it feasible to have venues so far apart?

Well, if Helsinki can seriously consider a bid with some events taking place in Norway (Lillehammer) or Sweden, I don't see why not.

Sweden actually has a bit of the same problem. While it's a winter sports power, it has had to propose bids with facilities split between far-flung venues (Ostersund, Are, Falun etc). Also, the Albertville games in France were fairly widely dispersed as well. I think the IOC is willing to consider such proposals more for a winter games than a summer _ they know there's not a lot of compact locations that offer every facility needed for a Winter Games.

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Why does a 400km trip take 7 hours?

I'm sure as long as there are shuttle flights for IOC members, the press and athletes - with a sub-village at Queenstown- it wouldn't be a problem.

Queenstown and Christchurch would be similar to Vancouver and Whistler (further apart I admit..) - two seperate towns/cities with seperate facilities hosting the same event.

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