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The Great Southern Challenge


Alexjc

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A question for the Kiwis _ in that preliminary bid that Ullrich was planning for 2010, what time of the year was he thinking of holding the games? Had planning got that far?

PS: I agree with Guardian _ I hope Christchurch puts in a bid soon for the World Figure Skating Championships.

dunno, but Matty might know.

he has a copy of Ullrich's case study.

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Was in 2000

Went to Nice, France...

I think it was a story of TV rights ?

I think it was more about the Goodwill Games than that story about TV rights. 2001 was the year the last Goodwill Games was hosted. What was in those Games? Figure Skating. Which city hosted those Games? Brisbane. Get my meaning here??

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A question for the Kiwis _ in that preliminary bid that Ullrich was planning for 2010, what time of the year was he thinking of holding the games? Had planning got that far?

PS: I agree with Guardian _ I hope Christchurch puts in a bid soon for the World Figure Skating Championships.

Tokyo has the 2007 edition. Then, there's Moscow 2005 and Calgary 2006, too. It is up in the air, but a 2008 or 2009 bid could be in the works, if it wants to.

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I guess a World Figure Skating Champs would help showcase the area as a Winter Sports destination. I don't know much about the sport, but I can't imagine the event would be much larger than, say, the Softball World Cup held in the city last year.

I don't know if the timing would be that much of a problem. It's in the top 5 sporting events in the world, I'm sure it would be accommodated nicely. As long as there is some suitable period of a few weeks anywhere between May and September...

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So if the Southern Hemisphere were to put up a city for 2014? Who should it be? Christchurch or Santiago?

Here's how I see it (I may be dead wrong)

Christchurch, New Zealand

Pros: New Zealand is percieved (rightly or wrongly) as having a more stable economy than Chile. NZ has a positive worldwide image (in no small part owed to the Lord of the Rings movies). It's already done the planning for the Olympics. It'd get the Commonwealth vote for the Games.

Cons: Christchurch is much smaller than Santiago. New Zealand is smaller than Chile. It's remote and the timezone difference with the US goes against it. Infrastructure (in general) is smaller. It's very remote from the rest of the world. Limited hosting experience. Tepid government support.

Santiago, Chile

Pros: Large city with a better airport than Christchurch. In a decent timezone for US coverage. Fairly accessible to the rest of the world.

Cons: Is the Chilean economy strong enough? Hasn't (yet) done it's homework and planning. Arguably more question marks than Christchurch.

I think Christchurch should go for it in 2012. It looks like it'd be competing against an Asian bid (Harbin and/or Pyongchang) which bodes well.

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So if the Southern Hemisphere were to put up a city for 2014? Who should it be? Christchurch or Santiago?

Here's how I see it (I may be dead wrong)

Christchurch, New Zealand

Pros: New Zealand is percieved (rightly or wrongly) as having a more stable economy than Chile. NZ has a positive worldwide image (in no small part owed to the Lord of the Rings movies). It's already done the planning for the Olympics. It'd get the Commonwealth vote for the Games.

Cons: Christchurch is much smaller than Santiago. New Zealand is smaller than Chile. It's remote and the timezone difference with the US goes against it. Infrastructure (in general) is smaller. It's very remote from the rest of the world. Limited hosting experience. Tepid government support.

Santiago, Chile

Pros: Large city with a better airport than Christchurch. In a decent timezone for US coverage. Fairly accessible to the rest of the world.

Cons: Is the Chilean economy strong enough? Hasn't (yet) done it's homework and planning. Arguably more question marks than Christchurch.

I think Christchurch should go for it in 2012. It looks like it'd be competing against an Asian bid (Harbin and/or Pyongchang) which bodes well.

u put that very well  :)

I have been looking at the airports of Christchurch

You can fly to christchurch via Air New Zealand from:

Europe:

London

America:

Los Angeles

San Francisco

Vancouver

Toronto

Asia:

Hong Kong

Nagoya

Osaka

Singapore

Taipei

Tokyo

Dubai

Africa:

Cape Town

Johannesburg

Australia:

Brisbane

Perth

Sydney

Melbourne

Adelaide

Canberra

(and many more smaller cities in New Zealand

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So if the Southern Hemisphere were to put up a city for 2014? Who should it be? Christchurch or Santiago?

Here's how I see it (I may be dead wrong)

Christchurch, New Zealand

Pros: New Zealand is percieved (rightly or wrongly) as having a more stable economy than Chile. NZ has a positive worldwide image (in no small part owed to the Lord of the Rings movies). It's already done the planning for the Olympics. It'd get the Commonwealth vote for the Games.

Cons: Christchurch is much smaller than Santiago. New Zealand is smaller than Chile. It's remote and the timezone difference with the US goes against it. Infrastructure (in general) is smaller. It's very remote from the rest of the world. Limited hosting experience. Tepid government support.

Santiago, Chile

Pros: Large city with a better airport than Christchurch. In a decent timezone for US coverage. Fairly accessible to the rest of the world.

Cons: Is the Chilean economy strong enough? Hasn't (yet) done it's homework and planning. Arguably more question marks than Christchurch.

I think Christchurch should go for it in 2012. It looks like it'd be competing against an Asian bid (Harbin and/or Pyongchang) which bodes well.

I agree with the Pros/Cons of Christchurch...

About Chile's Cons... I think the chilean economy will be strong to host an Olympic Games in 2018 and beyond. I think we must solve internal economical problems but the bases are strong. I think the most important problem of a chilean bid is the Chilean Support (from the govt. and the people)

I like a NZ bid for 2014, but I don't think two games will be to the South Hemisphery. So, I want Christchurch don't host the games, sorry...  :D  But, if Santiago can't do it... Go NZ!!!  :D

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So if the Southern Hemisphere were to put up a city for 2014? Who should it be? Christchurch or Santiago?

Here's how I see it (I may be dead wrong)

Christchurch, New Zealand

Pros: New Zealand is percieved (rightly or wrongly) as having a more stable economy than Chile. NZ has a positive worldwide image (in no small part owed to the Lord of the Rings movies). It's already done the planning for the Olympics. It'd get the Commonwealth vote for the Games.

Cons: Christchurch is much smaller than Santiago. New Zealand is smaller than Chile. It's remote and the timezone difference with the US goes against it. Infrastructure (in general) is smaller. It's very remote from the rest of the world. Limited hosting experience. Tepid government support.

Santiago, Chile

Pros: Large city with a better airport than Christchurch. In a decent timezone for US coverage. Fairly accessible to the rest of the world.

Cons: Is the Chilean economy strong enough? Hasn't (yet) done it's homework and planning. Arguably more question marks than Christchurch.

I think Christchurch should go for it in 2012. It looks like it'd be competing against an Asian bid (Harbin and/or Pyongchang) which bodes well.

I agree with the Pros/Cons of Christchurch...

About Chile's Cons... I think the chilean economy will be strong to host an Olympic Games in 2018 and beyond. I think we must solve internal economical problems but the bases are strong. I think the most important problem of a chilean bid is the Chilean Support (from the govt. and the people)

I like a NZ bid for 2014, but I don't think two games will be to the South Hemisphery. So, I want Christchurch don't host the games, sorry...  :D  But, if Santiago can't do it... Go NZ!!!  :D

Oh thanx....hehehe

KRATK, I can see that we both feel really passionate about seeing the winter games in our counties. You most likely think that Santiago is the better choice and I think that Christchurch is the better choice (of course we are being bias, hehehe).

I still stand by my debate that Christchurch is the number 1 choice, but I would be naive to think that Santiago could not host over New Zealand. New Zealand and Chile have practically equal skiing facilities so I think it will come down to other things e.g the counties economy and financing.

It is no secret that New Zealand is in a stronger economic position than Chile.

And Chile is in a stronger position when it come to population and it’s a bigger country.

I don’t know a lot about Chile so I’m only take my opinion of Santiago from stats. I know that you will not agree with me but I still think and hope with all my heart that New Zealand will host the first winter games in the SH.

I just wonder if Santiago was to go up against Christchurch for the same games. Which one would win?

New Zealand has really strong chance. I’m not going to say stronger than Chile, because who am I to speak for the IOC.

It going to be interesting.

Which city will bid, get shortlisted and even maybe win.

Santiago or Christchurch.

But for now I’m going to say:

CHRISTCHURCH-WANAKA for the Winter Olympic games.

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Yes, a pretty good summary Troehl _ my only quibble would be with your saying Christchurch has limited hosting experience _ its had a very good Commonwealth Games and regularly now hosts major Rugby tests _ I don't think they'd have much troubles.

I'd just passionately love to see the Winter Olympics come to the Southern Hemisphere! I would really hate it if Christchurch and Santiago came up directly against each other in a bid war _ I would find it very hard to choose between them if I had to. I'm an Aussie, so I feel a great affinity to the Kiwis, I work with lots of Kiwis and have lots of Kiwi friends, NZ is a stunningly beautiful country and I even learned to ski in NZ. On the other hand, my partner is Chilean, I've travelled throughout Chile and seen that it's economy is much better than many people think, have friends there and it is also a very beautiful country. I agree, though, that if one of them gets a Winter Games, the other would have to wait a long time for their next chance.

If any Southern Hemisphere country (and that includes Argentina _ though I'd prefer NZ or Chile) made a bid for the WOGs, it would have my full enthusiastic support. In the meantime, I'd just like to see both NZ and Chile work towards the position where they will actually make bids.

Viva Cile!

Onya New Zealand!

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It would be great Christchurch 2014 and Santiago 2018... I hope one of this cities could host the WOG soon.

If Santiago or Christchurch enter in a bid war, I really don't know which city could host the games. And I want this don't happen.

What about a bid of Santiago-Christchurch... The Games of the South Pacific??  :P  :P

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I would love also to see the games in NZ and Chile. but for me its a matter of honor (sorry for my NZ friends) getting them first. Becouse it would be shocking getting the first WOG of the southern hemisphere. That country (Chile or NZ) would be free of that stupid prejudice of the northern people (southern hemisphere people that live in the middle of a tropical jungle, specially the south americans). Winter tourism would be boosted at a very high level, becouse the country who get the games (Chile, Nz and even argentina) will be considered as a winter nation among the northern countries.

I think the real battle will be for getting the FIRST GAMES OF THE SOUTHERN HEMISHPERE, later maybe many southern bids can be succesful, but they will not have the same impact.

I´ts  like the first ski world cup that took place in the Southern Hemisphere. Portillo (chile) must have been a very shocking venue for nothern people in those times (1966).

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I guess a World Figure Skating Champs would help showcase the area as a Winter Sports destination. I don't know much about the sport, but I can't imagine the event would be much larger than, say, the Softball World Cup held in the city last year.

I don't know if the timing would be that much of a problem. It's in the top 5 sporting events in the world, I'm sure it would be accommodated nicely. As long as there is some suitable period of a few weeks anywhere between May and September...

Timing should not be the problem. Figure skating is held in an indoor ice arena nowadays. The real problem is just trying to make the ice cold and optimal for the figure skating events. Besides, if Tampa Bay could host NHL's Stanley Cup Finals in June at an indoor ice arena with the kind of Florida weather outside at that time, then why not? That is, in the case of having the World Figure Skating Championships in the month of March (around there) in New Zealand.

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A question for the Kiwis _ in that preliminary bid that Ullrich was planning for 2010, what time of the year was he thinking of holding the games? Had planning got that far?

PS: I agree with Guardian _ I hope Christchurch puts in a bid soon for the World Figure Skating Championships.

dunno, but Matty might know.

he has a copy of Ullrich's case study.

Sorry, have been on a fieldtrip and didn't hear me being summonsed, LOL - funnily enough, the fieldtrip included Christchurch for a couple of days.

Neway, I haven't actually seen the revised study which was done for 2010, however in the 2006 case study, it simply lists the possibility of hosting in July/August of 2006.

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  • 4 weeks later...

As well as wanting to keep this thread alive for a bit longer, I've just been pondering a bit lately about the timing issue of a southern WOG _ when would be the best time to hold a games down south?

This seems to be the biggest objection from the nay-sayers up north when it comes to  floating the idea of a Southern WOG. Their assumption usually is that they would have to be held July-August, which they object to on the grounds that it is 1) In the northern summer, during which the delicate petals would have problems watching ice sports; 2) Out of TV ratings times; 3) out of season for winter athletes; and 4) clashes with other events.

While it's all very tempting to say "stuff them", a bit of compromise could help the south's chances, and might even make better sense in the long run.

On consideration, I would propose September-October as the best times for the following reasons:

1) While August might be the peak of the southern snow season, the later part of the season would probably be more reliable in terms of snow cover. In Oz, September-early October usually brings some of the best snow cover. A friend of mine just retrurned from skiing in Argentina and he reported that the best cover was at the end of his trip (late September). I'd assume it's probably the same for NZ. It's also a late enough time for southern countries to possibly consider bringing forward daylight savings a few weeks earlier. Meanwhile, up north it would be starting to get into Autumn, where sensitive northern souls would be less horrified in having to watch snow sports.

2) By September-October, the start of the northern TV ratings periods has kicked in _ the networks are introducing and bedding in their new program schedules etc and the TV players are well and truly into ratings war mode. What better time could you get for the national TV rights holders to slot in an Olympics _ it's a time when the can promote their new seasons schedules as well as put a damper on their competitors' offerings. Good time for winter equipment manufacturers also to advertise theior products for the coming northern ski season.

3) It gives a longer southern season for for winter athletes to adjust their training schedules and acclimatise _ they would have all of June, July and August to keep training and compete. Indeed, a southern bid for these months might also be able to negotiate with the likes of the FIS to have a special Southern Skiing World Cup schedule in the Olympic year _ say, in July-to-August, have a series of world cup events in Chile, Argentina, NZ and Australia in the lead up to a late September-early October WOG. Ski World Cup events have certainly been hosted down south in those months before. The indoor winter sports are less of a problem (the recent hockey world cup, for example, was in September).

4) It avoids scheduling clashes with other events. In the SOGs, Tokyo, Seoul, Melbourne and Sydney were all held in the Sept-Nov time spans. The FIFA Soccer World Cup of the same year would probably be in the July-August slot (earlier if it is an southern hemisphere WC). The US Baseball World Series seems to be second half of October. And the US Open Tennis is early September. Late Sept-early Oct is an open slot that has been used for Olympics before.

Anyway, thems' my views. Any comments?

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In Chile something is different... The peak of snow is in July... but in June there are a lot of it, especially if its a rainy year... I think Chile's best option is early July because in August it will be at same time as FIFA World Cup I think...

I don't know.... I think northern people is so delicated... they can't understand WOG in Summer, they couldn't train in this time, their ratings will down, it will be nearly of WC, etc, etc... You could do an excellent WOG in July-September...

This year we saw the Euro2004, the Copamérica and Athens in three months!!!! And all while we're in winter...

If the ratings down in the summer season, the Olympic Games are a success?? Why this couldn't happen with an Winter Olympic Games??

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Very good points, roltel.

IF, a big IF, you could swing the various Winter Sports federations to accommodate a schedule leading up to a late Sept-early Oct Games-time, then indeed you would have overcome the most salient NH (northern hemisphere) objections.

I think you will meet the greatest resistance from the most powerful winter SF - the ISU.  Unfortunately, their season is built around culminating with the Winter Games and their World Championships.  

1.  Make sure the WC that year ends in mid or late July at the latest.  That would give advertisers' budgets some breathing room before they buy time for a late September-early October WOG.  

2.  The US network that'll carry the WOG telecast will really have to adjust its schedule so that indeed, that year's WOG is a springboard ramp for its fall TV schedule to immediately follow.  

3.  Time the WOG for a sweeps rating week in the US.

If you can get the all-powerful ISU to jiggle their schedule to start the Grand Prix series w/ the Olympics (which means having all the ice skaters train through the summer), then all the rest of the pieces may fall into place.

But this will be a long hard sell -- especially, you can't have the IOC members travel to Bariloche or wherever.  And of course, there will be the northern sites which will say - if you go with them-- then you don't have to reinvent the WOG wheel.

Another consideration: by moving the training schedule to peak in late September -- what will happen to the rest of the season for the skiing sports, the Nordic sports, etc.

I think giving Ulan Bator the SOG would be easier than moving WOG to the southern hemisphere.

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These are some great points rotel :)

I know that New Zealand does have the longest running ski season in the SH. The New Zealand season start in late May - early June and ends in late October - early November.  I would say the hosting mouths would be May, June, July, and August.

I think the earliest time possible which would be May/June for NZ, Chile and Argentina.  

SH major ski resort seasons are:

Mount Hutt (NZ): May to October

Coronet Peak (NZ): June to October

Treble Cone (NZ): June to October

Cardrona (NZ): June to October

Whakapapa (NZ): June to October

Turoa (NZ): June to November

Portillo (Chile): June to October

Valle Nevado (Chile): June to October

Termas de Chillán (Chile): June to October

Antuco (Chile): June to October

Lagunillas (Chile): June to October

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Thinking more about this, I think the only realistic way for a Bariloche, or a Santiago or a CHristchurch to snag a WOG is to:

1.  just bribe your way thru, including:

 a.  bribe the 1st-cut evaluation committee

 b.  selecting the 55% of the voting IOC members who will retire anyway; and buy them outright; and

 c.  make sure your northern competitors are the weakest and ugliest cities running ever.

Seriously, that's the only way for the WOGs to go south.

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:) As we all know bribing is a dirty Northern Hemisphere tactic.

If NZ, Chile, Australia, or Argentina put up a plan, why not?

New Zealand stands a good chance as the first Southern Hemisphere WOG host as they have a winter ski culture and some spectacular venues to host them.  Queenstown, Wanaka, and Christchurch are already planing a combind effort to host 2014. :)

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:) As we all know bribing is a dirty Northern Hemisphere tactic.

If NZ, Chile, Australia, or Argentina put up a plan, why not?

New Zealand stands a good chance as the first Southern Hemisphere WOG host as they have a winter ski culture and some spectacular venues to host them.  Queenstown, Wanaka, and Christchurch are already planing a combind effort to host 2014. :)

Christchurch/Queenstown bid???? But there is a good 500km between the cities. Christchurch could handel it by itself, and has a more then adequate ski resort.

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That's the big question. While the IOC doesn't seem to mind a bit of distance between venues when it comes to the WOGs (eg Vancouver-Whistler) it is a fair haul between Chrischurch and Queenstown. I suppose they'd have to orgamise some air shuttle service between the two for "Olympic Family" members.

I suppose the options would be:

Christchurch only: Okay, Methven/Mt Hutt for Alpine skiing. Are there venues already nearby also for nordic skiing etc?

Christchurch-Queenstown: Pretty well all the sports venues are covered, but would distance between the two be a turn-off.

Queenstown only: Beautiful location, but would Queenstown alone have the facilities for the ice events etc. Is it big enough to act as the anchor city?

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I suppose the options would be:

Christchurch only: Okay, Methven/Mt Hutt for Alpine skiing. Are there venues already nearby also for nordic skiing etc?

Christchurch-Queenstown: Pretty well all the sports venues are covered, but would distance between the two be a turn-off.

Queenstown only: Beautiful location, but would Queenstown alone have the facilities for the ice events etc. Is it big enough to act as the anchor city?

The problem is that it would be hard for just Christchurch/Mount Hutt games or a Queenstown/Wanaka. Canterbury doesn’t have great Nordic skiing facilities. The Snowfarm is the SH premier commercial cross-country venue and it is located in Cardrona, Wanaka about 50km from Queenstown. Queenstown/Wanaka have the Skiing (Alpine skiing at treble one) but lacks the infrastructure or experience.

I think that it should be:

Christchurch: Indoor events, Village, OC and CC

Mount Hutt: Alpine skiing, Luge/Bobsleigh  

Porter Heights: Freestyle skiing, Snow boarding

Snowfarm: Cross-Countries, Biathlon

Queenstown: Ski jumping, Village

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