F1 2011 - The Official Thread

[gotosy 493]

Turkey GP qualifying:

1. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m25.049s

2. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m25.454s

3. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m25.574s

4. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1m25.595s

5. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m25.851s

6. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m25.982s

7. Vitaly Petrov Renault 1m26.296s

8. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1m26.646s

9. Nick Heidfeld Renault 1m26.659s

10. Felipe Massa Ferrari No time

11. Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1m26.764s

12. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m27.027s

13. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1m27.145s

14. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1m27.236s

15. Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1m27.244s

16. Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m27.255s

17. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m27.572s

18. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1m28.780s

19. Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1m31.119s

20. Jerome D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1m30.445s

21. Tonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 1m30.692s

22. Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1m30.813s

23. Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1m31.564s

24. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari No time

[gotosy 493]

Vettel leads Red Bull one-two in Turkey , Alonso secures first Ferrari podium of the year

Turkish GP:

Classified:

1. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1h30:17.558

2. Webber Red Bull-Renault + 8.807

3. Alonso Ferrari + 10.075

4. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes + 40.232

5. Rosberg Mercedes + 47.539

6. Button McLaren-Mercedes + 59.431

7. Heidfeld Renault + 1:00.857

8. Petrov Renault + 1:08.168

9. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari + 1:09.300

10. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari + 1:18.000

11. Massa Ferrari + 1:19.800

12. Schumacher Mercedes + 1:25.400

13. Sutil Force India-Mercedes + 1 lap

14. Perez Sauber-Ferrari + 1 lap

15. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth + 1 lap

16. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari + 1 lap

17. Maldonado Williams-Cosworth + 1 lap

18. Trulli Lotus-Renault + 1 lap

19. Kovalainen Lotus-Renault + 2 laps

20. D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth + 2 laps

21. Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth + 3 laps

22. Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth + 5 laps

World Championship standings:

Drivers:

1. Vettel 93

2. Hamilton 59

3. Webber 55

4. Button 46

5. Alonso 41

6. Massa 24

7. Petrov 21

8. Heidfeld 21

9. Rosberg 20

10. Kobayashi 8

11. Buemi 6

12. Schumacher 6

13. Sutil 2

14. Di Resta 2

[Rob. 2040]

Great races, boring WDC.

[Faster 545]

Great races, boring WDC.

I am sure it wouldn't be so boring if it was Hamilton or Button with a 34 point lead.

[Rob. 2040]

Yeah, it would be. I'd be enjoying it more, but it'd be just as boring.

Three races wins and only one overtake from Vettel this season. It does make the WDC boring when there is one very dominant car with a driver capable of gettng the most out of it - the first half of Button's 2009 season was the same until a couple of other teams caught up with Brawn's pace, a few seasons with Schumacher in a dominant Ferrari were like that, and Häkkinen was a man who was also blessed with a dominant car towards the end of his career.

It's not Red Bull's fault and certainly not Vettel's. It's up to the other team's engineers (and Webber as a driver in an equal car) to catch up with them. But the WDC will be boring until they do.

[Bezzi 249]

Horrible race for Schumacher and Massa.

[gotosy 493]

Silverstone unveils new pit and paddock complex ahead of British GP

(CNN) -- Silverstone, the host of the British Grand Prix, has unveiled a multi-million dollar revamp of their pit lane and paddock facilities called "The Wing."

The $43m development began after Silverstone secured a 17-year contract to stage the British Grand Prix back in 2009.

Part of the agreement stipulated the circuit must be upgraded and five former British world champions, including current McLaren driver Jenson Button, were on hand to help launch the new building.

It has three floors and a distinctive wing at one end. Designed by the architects who were behind the London 2012 Olympic Stadium it includes 41 garages, a new media center, hospitality suites, a conference center and a new VIP spectator area.

Button was joined by former British champions John Surtees (1964), Sir Jackie Stewart (1969, 1971, 1973), Nigel Mansell (1992) and Damon Hill, the 1996 title holder, and head of the British Racing Drivers' Club (BRDC) which runs Silverstone.

John Surtees, Jackie Stewart, Nigel Mansell, Damon Hill and Jenson Button

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/SPORT/motorsport/05/17/motorsport.formula.one.silverstone/

[gotosy 493]

Spain GP' qualifying:

Mark Webber takes his first pole of the season

1. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m20.981s

2. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m21.181s

3. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1m21.961s

4. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m21.964s

5. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m21.996s

6. Vitaly Petrov Renault 1m22.471s

7. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m22.599s

8. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m22.888s

9. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1m22.952s

10. Michael Schumacher Mercedes

11. Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m23.231s

12. Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari 1m23.367s

13. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m23.694s

14. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1m23.702s

15. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1m25.403s

16. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercede 1m26.126s

17. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercede 1m26.571s

18. Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1m26.521s

19. Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1m26.910s

20. Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1m27.315s

21. Tonio Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth 1m27.809s

22. Narain Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth 1m27.908s

23. Jerome D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1m28.556s

24. Nick Heidfeld Renault No time

[gotosy 493]

Vettel may have won, but great job by Heidfeld from the back to 8th. Good race for Button and Hamilton too.

Spanish GP

1. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1h39:03.301

2. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes + 0.630

3. Button McLaren-Mercedes + 35.697

4. Webber Red Bull-Renault + 47.966

5. Alonso Ferrari + 1 lap

6. Schumacher Mercedes + 1 lap

7. Rosberg Mercedes + 1 lap

8. Heidfeld Renault + 1 lap

9. Perez Sauber-Ferrari + 1 lap

10. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari + 1 lap

11. Petrov Renault + 1 lap

12. Di Resta Force India-Mercedes + 1 lap

13. Sutil Force India-Mercedes + 1 lap

14. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari + 1 lap

15. Maldonado Williams-Cosworth + 1 lap

16. Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari + 2 laps

17. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth + 2 laps

18. Trulli Lotus-Renault + 2 laps

19. Glock Virgin-Cosworth + 3 laps

20. D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth + 3 laps

21. Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth + 4 laps

World Championship standings:

Drivers:

1. Vettel 118

2. Hamilton 77

3. Webber 67

4. Button 61

5. Alonso 51

6. Rosberg 26

7. Heidfeld 25

8. Massa 24

9. Petrov 21

10. Schumacher 14

11. Kobayashi 9

12. Buemi 6

13. Sutil 2

14. Di Resta 2

15. Perez 2

[gotosy 493]

Kubica could get Friday practice run

Robert KubicaRenault team owner Gerard Lopez says Robert Kubica could assess his fitness by driving in a Friday practice session at a grand prix later this year - but reckons it is highly unlikely that the Pole will be fit enough to race again during 2011.

Kubica is continuing his rehabilitation at home following the rally crash nearly four months ago that left him with multiple injuries including a partially severed right arm.

The doctors treating him have suggested it will be the summer before they can predict a potential date for his Formula 1 return, and Lopez said the door was open for Kubica to participate in a Friday practice session if it would be helpful, even if he was not up to racing this season.

...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/91677

[gotosy 493]

Monaco GP qualifying:

1. Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault 1m13.556s

2. Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes 1m13.997s

3. Mark Webber Red Bull-Renault 1m14.019s

4. Fernando Alonso Ferrari 1m14.483s

5. Michael Schumacher Mercedes 1m14.682s

6. Felipe Massa Ferrari 1m14.877s

7. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1m15.280s

8. Nico Rosberg Mercedes 1m15.766s

9. Pastor Maldonado Williams-Cosworth 1m16.528s

10. Sergio Perez Sauber-Ferrari No time

11. Vitaly Petrov Renault 1m15.815s

12. Rubens Barrichello Williams-Cosworth 1m15.826s

13. Kamui Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari 1m15.973s

14. Paul di Resta Force India-Mercedes 1m16.118s

15. Adrian Sutil Force India-Mercedes 1m16.121s

16. Nick Heidfeld Renault 1m16.214s

17. Sebastien Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m16.300s

18. Heikki Kovalainen Lotus-Renault 1m17.343s

19. Jarno Trulli Lotus-Renault 1m17.381s

20. Jaime Alguersuari Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1m17.820s

21. Timo Glock Virgin-Cosworth 1m17.914s

22. Jerome D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth 1m18.736s

[Rob. 2040]

Terrible session. Firstly, hope Perez isn't too badly injured, that's the main thing.

But Hamilton screwed over by the timing of the accident, couldn't get a hot-lap in.

[gotosy 493]

yes first I was worried as he crashes almost exact as Wendlinger, but seems Perez is Ok

Perez conscious, talking after crash

[gotosy 493]

Hamilton has been dropped from seventh to 10th on the grid for cutting chicane

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/5/12107.html

[Rob. 2040]

Oh no!

[Bezzi 249]

Hamilton have to be disqualified. He took two pilots out of race. that dirt!

[Rob. 2040]

He'll get time penalties for both because they were silly but he didn't do anything dangerous that's worthy of a DQ. This is Monaco, you get something slightly wrong and there's no margin for error; accidents always look more dramatic around this track.

I take it you're in favour of DQing Alguersuari, Di Resta and Sutil as well. They all caused crashes which caused a lot of damage as well.

Lewis was clumsy a couple of times today, not dangerous. I think you're letting your Massa-tinted glasses get in the way of what happened which was, in truth, two mis-timed overtakes, nothing more. He didn't slam anyone into a wall like Shcumacher did to Rubens last year, or deliberately shunt someone off the track, or do anything dangerous. Talk of a DQ is ridiculous.

[gotosy 493]

well it was not a boring race

1. Vettel Red Bull-Renault 2h09:38.373

2. Alonso Ferrari + 1.138

3. Button McLaren-Mercedes + 2.378

4. Webber Red Bull-Renault + 23.100

5. Kobayashi Sauber-Ferrari + 26.900

6. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes + 27.200

7. Sutil Force India-Mercedes + 1 lap

8. Heidfeld Renault + 1 lap

9. Barrichello Williams-Cosworth + 1 lap

10. Buemi Toro Rosso-Ferrari + 1 lap

11. Rosberg Mercedes + 1 lap

12. Di Resta Force India-Mercedes + 2 laps

13. Trulli Lotus-Renault + 2 laps

14. Kovalainen Lotus-Renault + 2 laps

15. D'Ambrosio Virgin-Cosworth + 2 laps

16. Liuzzi HRT-Cosworth + 3 laps

17. Karthikeyan HRT-Cosworth + 3 laps

18. Maldonado Williams-Cosworth + 5 laps

Drivers Championship:

1. Vettel 143

2. Hamilton 85

3. Webber 79

4. Button 76

5. Alonso 69

6. Heidfeld 29

7. Rosberg 26

8. Massa 24

9. Petrov 21

10. Kobayashi 19

11. Schumacher 14

12. Sutil 8

13. Buemi 7

14. Perez 2

15. Barrichello 2

16. Di Resta 2

[Faster 545]

I think the Vettel winning in multiple different situations should hush the British critiques of him and his success. Vettel drove a masterful race in being under pressure for more than 20 laps. The red flag was just the Racing G-ds saying today was Vettel's day for a superb drive in one of the most difficult races.

[Rob. 2040]

"British critiques of him and his success" - you're not going to go down that route are you? Really, you're better than that.

Yeah, he drove well, but so did Button and Alonso. Vettel's tyres had two more laps left in them after which they would have been two seconds a lap slower. In truth, his drive and Red Bull's strategy was good for 2nd or 3rd, but Vettel had a lot of luck and ended up with another win.

What you call the Racing Gods I call bloody good luck. He was able to get rid of those tyres during the red-flag and put on a fresh set. What we should have had at the end of that race was a very risky Red Bull strategy being tested to its limits by two cars on fresher tyres being driven just as brilliantly as the German was driving his - we were deprived of that. If Vettel had won under those circumstances it would have been a superb win. As it was, it was pretty much handed to him by the timing of the two safety cars and the race stoppage.

That's not to say he didn't drive well though. But this wasn't a classic Monaco win; he was handed the lead by the first safety car, and given the chance of an easy win by the red-flags.

Vettel hasn't won in "multiple different situations" either. That's where my criticism of him comes from, and by the way it's not a major one, just a point of interest. Nearly all of wins have come from leading from the start in what has been clearly the best car. I don't know how capable the guy is in a car which isn't the best, and I've seen very few overtakes of note from him. Furthermore, his pole:wins ratio last season wasn't great; he should have wrapped that title up earlier than the final race. Some of that's not his fault of course; he's been given the best car two years in a row and has done well with it, you can't ask for much more. But in my own mind I like to imagine how drivers would do if given equal cars, and I'm not sure how highly I rank Vettel in that hypothetical race yet.

[arwebb 133]

Completely agree with you, Rob. Button should have won the race and I feel Alonso would have done had the race finished naturally, i.e. without the stoppage. I don't think anybody doubts Vettel's ability, but surely given that he has had the best car at his disposal since mid-2009, one has to question his mentality when the pressure is off. That is not some anti-German critique, as Faster apparently believes. It is a realistic appraisal of facts.

[Faster 545]

Not Anti-German, just that you having two horses in the race tends to hush your criticism of Button and Hamilton. If I remember correctly Button had the best car by a country mile in 2009 and your didn't challenge his championship worth.

I also find it amusing Rob that you complain about Vettel's pole to win ration last year, but complain that he can only win from pole this year.

[Rob. 2040]

You've missed the point completely on both counts sadly.

Vettel seems to only win from poll but just because he gets poll it doesn't mean he wins! Last season he destroyed everyone in quali but often failed to capitalise, whilst this season he's destroying everyone in quali and is capitalising. That's a sure sign that's he maturing as a driver which is impressive, but as I said in my last post, I've still yet to see dominant performances from him in anything but the clearly fastest car. That's not Vettel's fault but there's a couple of drivers on the grid who have done that, so at the moment I rank them higher. I have not challenged Vettel's championship worth. He drove some brilliant races last season and was a worthy champion. My criticisms of him do not imply I think he's an unworthy champion so please get that idea out of your head!

And of Button, I defended his championship on these forums a couple of years ago because some members had the gaul to suggest he didn't deserve it because he had the superior car; something I've never ever claimed of Vettel and never will. I'm certainly no Button cheer-leader, but then again there's very little to criticise because he so rarely makes mistakes. For me though, he doesn't quite have the edge the very top drivers do. That's why he is so often out-qualified by his team-mate. He's smooth and consistent, and very fast, but not quite at the top.

---------------------------

There are two drivers on the grid I'd put above everyone else at the moment and that's Alonso and Hamilton. That's not to say neither have off days or that I won't criticise them (I said of Hamilton he was clumsy this weekend and deserved his drive-through penalties for example), but I've seen both take less-dominant cars to wins and to the brink of championships.

Below those two I'd put Vettel, Kubica, Rosberg and Button. The first three in that group, especially Vettel, have the potential for me to reach the top-table. Button has been promoted to this group in the last three seasons after winning a WDC and holding his own in the McLaren, though I'd never put him in the top group.

Below that Schumacher MK II, Webber, Massa and Barrichelo. The last three could have won Championships in their time but didn't and all have had to play #2 driver at points in their carreer. Schumacher is now being beaten nearly every week by his team-mate so goes ino this category of drivers on the wane, though in the past he's obviously been in the very top-group.

And then the rest, some of whom have potential which we have seen glimpses of (Kobayashi, Di Resta, Perez in particular) and who I expect to be given drives in better cars, and the rest who may have to luck out with a good car at some point in their careers.

---------------------------

I think that's a perfectly fair analysis of the way things stand at the moment. You might disagree, but don't put it down to my nationality. And I do criticise the Brits when it's warranted. I follow the sport closely - more closely than most - and don't want a debate about nationality.

[arwebb 133]

Not Anti-German, just that you having two horses in the race tends to hush your criticism of Button and Hamilton. If I remember correctly Button had the best car by a country mile in 2009 and your didn't challenge his championship worth.

I also find it amusing Rob that you complain about Vettel's pole to win ration last year, but complain that he can only win from pole this year.

I'm happy to debate with you when you stop alleging things which are only there in your head.

[Faster 545]

Nothing is in my head arwebb. I remember the debates while from 2009 when it was you and Rob against the other F1 watchers on this forum that said Button was an unworthy champion because all he was, was a mediocre driver in the best car. Now since it is not a Brit in the best car (even though both Hamilton and Button moved to better teams where they both thought they would have better drives) you question everything Vettel does. There has been many, many drivers over the last decade that were in exceptional cars only to lose the championships to lesser cars with better drivers. Just because someone has the class of the cars doesn't mean they will win and Vettel's dominance in the season opening races should prove this. Webber has under-performed in the same car and the difference comes down to the skill of the driver. Vettel is not the best pure driver on the circuit. Alonso is. But the fact that Vettel has used what he has been given and made it perform the way he has is an accomplishment enough and the criticism he is getting is unwarranted especially considering the amount of mistakes allegedly better drivers like Hamilton have made this season and last. And just to go further, the 2005 season is a perfect example. Schumacher and Raikkonen both had better cars then Alonso, but Alonso still won. Same with 2006.

I also remember rather well how you were critical of Raikkonen's win in 2007 against Hamilton despite Hamilton's complete collapse late-season.