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OK, we know Durban and Rome will be the 2 sure ones. Anyone else will be sheer amateurs (including Madrid and Tokyo) for entering the fray very un-analytically. But the IOC needs a nice cast of players...

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OK, we know Durban and Rome will be the 2 sure ones. Anyone else will be sheer amateurs (including Madrid and Tokyo) for entering the fray very un-analytically. But the IOC needs a nice cast of players...

i agree about Madrid and Tokyo (which do not have chances) but I thnk also Istanbul - if they do bid - will play a big role.

My idea is that currently chances are

1) Durban

2) Istanbul

3) Rome

Rome has against it 2 things: we are the "normal" bid of a normal european city and we do not have many large financial means. Rome SOG could only be austerity games, using existing or already built venues, a few news, using the charme of the city to cover the downsize of the cost. This is bc we have 120% ratio Debt/GDP and the city and region administration of Rome are very much indebted already

They could be the first "post-crisis" games, the only issue being that in 2013 the world - especially the emerging world- will be likely full of money.

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^^

Here is a solution. Confiscate some of the countless Vatican treasures and sell it? They would generate enough cash to finance Olympics for the next century! B)

Welcome 2015, btw. Are you by any chance from Milan? :D

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i agree about Madrid and Tokyo (which do not have chances) but I thnk also Istanbul - if they do bid - will play a big role.

My idea is that currently chances are

1) Durban

2) Istanbul

3) Rome

Rome has against it 2 things: we are the "normal" bid of a normal european city and we do not have many large financial means. Rome SOG could only be austerity games, using existing or already built venues, a few news, using the charme of the city to cover the downsize of the cost. This is bc we have 120% ratio Debt/GDP and the city and region administration of Rome are very much indebted already

They could be the first "post-crisis" games, the only issue being that in 2013 the world - especially the emerging world- will be likely full of money.

Hmmm, intriguing to hear that Roma has such a large issue with municipal/regional debt. The question then has to be who steps in to assist with any funding of both the bid and the required infrastructure upgrades. How does the national government sit with public expenditure? Is there much potential for the private sector to pick up the cost? How wealthy is CONI (politically rich but Euro poor?).

It certainly sounds less promising for Rome if it has to present itself to the IOC as the austerity bid; political influence at the IOC board can be negated if you don't have the cash (just ask Annecy).

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the chance of Istanbul depends on the international diplomacy of our government to be honest... even tough Turkey has a very good reputation towards in old Ottoman lands and some other Turkic and Muslim countries too right now. altough i can count 15 guarantee votes from under these diplomacy circumstances.

but it wont help to get 2020 ....

the eu votes can go to rome or divide into 2 with madrid also latin american ones

asian ones can go to tokyo

africa especially subsaharan ones will support durban

and gulf region and other arab countries like egypt shall support doha if they can be in short list if not these votes can go to istanbul too...

need to know the members of the IOC who gonna vote and their citizenships to have a basic calculation...

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Hmmm, intriguing to hear that Roma has such a large issue with municipal/regional debt. The question then has to be who steps in to assist with any funding of both the bid and the required infrastructure upgrades. How does the national government sit with public expenditure? Is there much potential for the private sector to pick up the cost? How wealthy is CONI (politically rich but Euro poor?).

It certainly sounds less promising for Rome if it has to present itself to the IOC as the austerity bid; political influence at the IOC board can be negated if you don't have the cash (just ask Annecy).

The country has the financial means to finance an olympics even with the large debt. We are still the 7th largest economy of the world with a very powerful and diversified economy. Privates are probably going to finance already part of the necessary infrastracture upgrade of the city (Metro D) and many parts of the project could be realized in PF.

CONI used to be wealthier but it surely not broke

Situation is not horrible, however Italy and Rome cannot afford surely a lavish display of grandeur.

^^

Here is a solution. Confiscate some of the countless Vatican treasures and sell it? They would generate enough cash to finance Olympics for the next century! B)

Welcome 2015, btw. Are you by any chance from Milan? :D

I am, but (---) I fully support Rome2020. Support thought is not blind: we have some strengths (like a airport which is actually already an hub with almost 40 million passengers and a city that does not need to dock any cruise ship to meet any room requirements from the IOC) but Italy's bid (which barely escapes the PIGS classification) has some weakness too

The country has the financial means to finance an olympics even with the large debt. We are still the 7th largest economy of the world with a very powerful and diversified economy. Privates are probably going to finance already part of the necessary infrastracture upgrade of the city (Metro D) and many parts of the project could be realized in PF.

CONI used to be wealthier but it surely not broke

Situation is not horrible, however Italy and Rome cannot afford surely a lavish display of grandeur.

I am, but (---) I fully support Rome2020. Support thought is not blind: we have some strengths (like a airport which is actually already an hub with almost 40 million passengers and a city that does not need to dock any cruise ship to meet any room requirements from the IOC) but Italy's bid (which barely escapes the PIGS classification) has some weakness too

Besides these will be the problems any western bid from 2020 onwards will have with the emerging (emerged?) world. USA and EU will have to adapt to a very, very different landscape tomorrow (today?)

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I am, but (---) I fully support Rome2020. Support thought is not blind: we have some strengths (like a airport which is actually already an hub with almost 40 million passengers and a city that does not need to dock any cruise ship to meet any room requirements from the IOC) but Italy's bid (which barely escapes the PIGS classification) has some weakness too

isnt it too early for rome after torino ?

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isnt it too early for rome after torino ?

No

Italy has had only one SOG in 1960 (a wonderful one, BTW) and 2 WOG (which is normal for such an important player in winter sports). 60 years after Rome 1960 I think it's enough

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No

Italy has had only one SOG in 1960 (a wonderful one, BTW) and 2 WOG (which is normal for such an important player in winter sports). 60 years after Rome 1960 I think it's enough

3 games in 1 country :) well dont be greedy :)

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3 games in 1 country :) well dont be greedy :)

2 of which, as I said, are due to the peculiar fact that there are just a handful countries capable of hosting WOG in the world.

Besides, it's Europe. Another fact which we cannot forget is that the IOC is euro-centric. It's perfectly normal for a european country to have had 1 SOG and 2 WOG and wishing to get another one

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The country has the financial means to finance an olympics even with the large debt. We are still the 7th largest economy of the world with a very powerful and diversified economy. Privates are probably going to finance already part of the necessary infrastracture upgrade of the city (Metro D) and many parts of the project could be realized in PF.

CONI used to be wealthier but it surely not broke

Situation is not horrible, however Italy and Rome cannot afford surely a lavish display of grandeur.

Besides these will be the problems any western bid from 2020 onwards will have with the emerging (emerged?) world. USA and EU will have to adapt to a very, very different landscape tomorrow (today?)

All sounds good in terms of being able to deliver a solid and technically competent bid. The next question will be how will the domestic (i.e Roman/Italian) audience respond to going into at least some more public debt for the Olympics plus how will Rome be able to sell itself to an IOC which has recently shown a predilection for the extravagant and the lavish.

By the way who exactly pushed or is behind the Rome bid? Are we talking city politicians, businessmen, CONI, the national government, ordinary people? Any gauge yet on the popularity of the bid in Rome?

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2 of which, as I said, are due to the peculiar fact that there are just a handful countries capable of hosting WOG in the world.

Besides, it's Europe. Another fact which we cannot forget is that the IOC is euro-centric. It's perfectly normal for a european country to have had 1 SOG and 2 WOG and wishing to get another one

well we dont have any sog or wog for 100 years :)

or hungary or ireland or romania :) it meaningless to give the games to the same countries always on the otehr hand there are new potentials and countries can handle this event... isnt it?

by the way i love rome and sure it will be again great games if they win.. dont take it offensive. but if a country host already once or twice its enough for that country for me.. thst why i dont like to see or support usa ones or uk or france... too much games given o those countries.

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All sounds good in terms of being able to deliver a solid and technically competent bid. The next question will be how will the domestic (i.e Roman/Italian) audience respond to going into at least some more public debt for the Olympics plus how will Rome be able to sell itself to an IOC which has recently shown a predilection for the extravagant and the lavish.

By the way who exactly pushed or is behind the Rome bid? Are we talking city politicians, businessmen, CONI, the national government, ordinary people? Any gauge yet on the popularity of the bid in Rome?

Rome is pushed mainly by local politicians and CONI with very good connections however with the national level (on all sides). Oppositions may come from the north of the country (which perceives Rome as a rather waistful hole in the country) escpecially among the Lega Nord, the dominant force of today's politics in the north. Some - especially in Veneto region - are still grumpy at the decision to prefere Rome over Venice for 2020 SOG. Greens, nimbys are also strong in the country and they did much damage to the 2004 bid.

All that having being said the fact that the Major of Rome renounced to the already troubled project of bringing F1 to Rome (as I wrote earlier) was perceived very well in the north and Milan in particular

well we dont have any sog or wog for 100 years :)

or hungary or ireland or romania :) it meaningless to give the games to the same countries always on the otehr hand there are new potentials and countries can handle this event... isnt it?

by the way i love rome and sure it will be again great games if they win.. dont take it offensive. but if a country host already once or twice its enough for that country for me.. thst why i dont like to see or support usa ones or uk or france... too much games given o those countries.

Hungary, Romania and Turkey cannot realistically host a WOG and only Turkey has any chance of getting a SOG

It's not our fault that we are a large economy and a middle-sized country and Hungary, Romania and - in the past - Turkey are not

All having being said, I think Istanbul has a great potential to get 2020 or 2024 if 2020 do not go to Europe. Neither Asia nor Europe, Muslim yet secular, a bridge among words (literaly) and a booming city in a booming country...time shall be ripe.

Istanbul has to make a competent bid and they have very good chances of getting 2020, more than Durban-where-the-hell-it-is-that in my opinion (no offence to Durban)

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Rome is pushed mainly by local politicians and CONI with very good connections however with the national level (on all sides). Oppositions may come from the north of the country (which perceives Rome as a rather waistful hole in the country) escpecially among the Lega Nord, the dominant force of today's politics in the north. Some - especially in Veneto region - are still grumpy at the decision to prefere Rome over Venice for 2020 SOG. Greens, nimbys are also strong in the country and they did much damage to the 2004 bid.

All that having being said the fact that the Major of Rome renounced to the already troubled project of bringing F1 to Rome (as I wrote earlier) was perceived very well in the north and Milan in particular

Hungary, Romania and Turkey cannot realistically host a WOG and only Turkey has any chance of getting a SOG

It's not our fault that we are a large economy and a middle-sized country and Hungary, Romania and - in the past - Turkey are not

All having being said, I think Istanbul has a great potential to get 2020 or 2024 if 2020 do not go to Europe. Neither Asia nor Europe, Muslim yet secular, a bridge among words (literaly) and a booming city in a booming country...time shall be ripe.

Istanbul has to make a competent bid and they have very good chances of getting 2020, more than Durban-where-the-hell-it-is-that in my opinion (no offence to Durban)

owwww dont say that :) The SA guys can react fiercly for that lol:)but i cant see a real support at italy for rome 2020 or in other applications like euro 2016 or f1 race.. cant see the italian passion for sporting applications like in 2004 or before

owwww dont say that :) The SA guys can react fiercly for that lol:)but i cant see a real support at italy for rome 2020 or in other applications like euro 2016 or f1 race.. cant see the italian passion for sporting applications like in 2004 or before

ah by the way Turkey has the hghest level in all europe :) altough we are hosting winter universiade in erzurum this year ... we have that potential but not the athletes

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Turkey is going to bid for 2020 .. That's for sure. I found a video (but can't find it anymore on my computer, had to categorised in my favourites) somewhere on internet and the president of the Youth and Sports Department was giving briefly information on the focus for the 2020 issue.

But I think that they are waiting for the ending of 2 important organizations to come and after that they will use these well-orgnised sports organizations as a back-up for the candidancy.

27.01.2011 till 05.02.2011 ==>> The Winter Universiad in Erzurum

23.07.2011 till 30.07.2011 ==>> The 2011 Eyof (European Youth Olympic Festival) The European Leg of the YOG actually.

And in 2013 the Metro Line-Tunnel MARMARAY under the Bosphorus will be operational in 2013. This line will have sub links to all directions and to the Olympic Park/Stadium. The Olympic Park Line is also finished and the metro test will be run for a few months. The only thing where I am sticking is a Metro-Line from the Airport to the Olympic Park. But the Government has anounced about a month ago that there will be built a 3rd Airport for about 60 million capacity. Now the plans are likely that the Line Under the Bosphorus will be lenghten towards the 3rd aiport. It is also likle that this will also go trough-under the Olympic Park.

The Government has ambitious projects with Istanbul. We need more information from internet sources about the rail-network plans on internet sources, how those lines will serve the venues. I did research about more than 6 months about where the venues will be build. But I couldn't find clear intentions how the venue plan will be arranged. The Istanbul Metropolitan government and Youth-Sports Department (Sports Minister) are keeping it as a secret.

As I mentioned above .. answers on those questions will be higly made after those 2 organizations. ;) (that's my thought tough)

regards

fatih

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Turkey is going to bid for 2020 .. That's for sure. I found a video (but can't find it anymore on my computer, had to categorised in my favourites) somewhere on internet and the president of the Youth and Sports Department was giving briefly information on the focus for the 2020 issue.

But I think that they are waiting for the ending of 2 important organizations to come and after that they will use these well-orgnised sports organizations as a back-up for the candidancy.

27.01.2011 till 05.02.2011 ==>> The Winter Universiad in Erzurum

23.07.2011 till 30.07.2011 ==>> The 2011 Eyof (European Youth Olympic Festival) The European Leg of the YOG actually.

And in 2013 the Metro Line-Tunnel MARMARAY under the Bosphorus will be operational in 2013. This line will have sub links to all directions and to the Olympic Park/Stadium. The Olympic Park Line is also finished and the metro test will be run for a few months. The only thing where I am sticking is a Metro-Line from the Airport to the Olympic Park. But the Government has anounced about a month ago that there will be built a 3rd Airport for about 60 million capacity. Now the plans are likely that the Line Under the Bosphorus will be lenghten towards the 3rd aiport. It is also likle that this will also go trough-under the Olympic Park.

The Government has ambitious projects with Istanbul. We need more information from internet sources about the rail-network plans on internet sources, how those lines will serve the venues. I did research about more than 6 months about where the venues will be build. But I couldn't find clear intentions how the venue plan will be arranged. The Istanbul Metropolitan government and Youth-Sports Department (Sports Minister) are keeping it as a secret.

As I mentioned above .. answers on those questions will be higly made after those 2 organizations. ;) (that's my thought tough)

Fatixx, I don't think those are 2 are terribly important in terms of Olympic candidacy. They're not like a PanAms, Asians, or Commonwealth Games. They're just kinda junior-type Games. But if Turkey f*cks up on those, then they will be a liaiblity on Istanbul's candidacy.

Edited by baron-pierreIV

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But coming from a country like Turkey, which has NEVER hosted, I can understand that everyone bidding for 2020 having already hosted before might be consider greedy.

You know who I'd support if they finally bid, but apart from them, at these early steps of the process, if the 2020 Games were to be held in Europe, I'd prefer Istanbul.

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But coming from a country like Turkey, which has NEVER hosted, I can understand that everyone bidding for 2020 having already hosted before might be consider greedy.

You know who I'd support if they finally bid, but apart from them, at these early steps of the process, if the 2020 Games were to be held in Europe, I'd prefer Istanbul.

for once is acceptable.... but some countries make it like a routine organisation that must held every 50 years in their lands... thats greedy

how many time usa host? or France ?

even brazil gets its first chance and china .everytime a " developed" country ( which i never understand the word , like st the others living in caves) that hosted many many times attend to host again and again... 3 times london???? toooo much for olympics and humanity. but its a race and the best bids get it so i cant judge or say anything... but my opinion is the same.. if it belongs to all humanity so give it and share it

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I think, as has been alluded to before, the 2020 games really depends on if Durban bids or not. Yes it seems very likely, but if we dont, then that opens up a whole other can of worms...And we really will not know if Durban is officially bidding until after the IOC congress here

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That remark should be directed at Spain -- not Italy.

I think there is a very peculiar reason why Madrid keeps bidding against all odds and common reason.

The fact is that the first Olumpic games in Spain were not held in Spain but in Catalunia. That's how Catalonians perceive them, that's how most Madrilenos and most other spaniards perceive them.

For Madrilenos especially it's a shame that the Olympic games went to their arch-rival, separatist and perceived second city before the grand ciudad. Madrid HAS to correct this wrong asap.

Of course the world has a very different perception, but I think this is the ideological spin behind Madrid bidding so close to Barcelona and even against all odds (like during last 2016 bid, where everyone knew there would not be a second european host after London)

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for once is acceptable.... but some countries make it like a routine organisation that must held every 50 years in their lands... thats greedy

how many time usa host? or France ?

even brazil gets its first chance and china .everytime a " developed" country ( which i never understand the word , like st the others living in caves) that hosted many many times attend to host again and again... 3 times london???? toooo much for olympics and humanity. but its a race and the best bids get it so i cant judge or say anything... but my opinion is the same.. if it belongs to all humanity so give it and share it

Emre, Sometimes I think the same way as you do. But we have to face it that the Olympics are not a simple game. It requires some really heavy and comprehensive organizational skills from the city and the country who is bidding.

I had a chance to examin all the previous bidbook of Istanbul, and have to say that we lacked always on 2 itmes. Transportation and waterwasting issues. (for exemple) .. And with each new bid you have to bring new challanges to your bid, because the IOC introduces new criteria and so on. Cities which have hosted 60 or 100 years ago do have now in this millenia the possibilities to cope with huge transportations and accomodation. And waterwasting issues are strong developed in those countries.

Paris must hava a chance after after 100 years in my opinion, because new generations must have the opportunity to enjoy Paris Olympics in my view though. Madrid still is a wonderfull city and will be a new region-City in Europe never held before.

it is not simply give it to other developing cities and countries and regions. It is about the be technically strong and Olympic Competitive with precise deadlines in the first place, what lacked in the previous Istanbul Bids. The Oriental Flavour of a Bicontinental Bid always will amuse the ears of much of people in the Olympic circuit, because Istanbul still sounds mysterious in the ears as it is the Oriental door to the middle east.

I'm waiting for a wonderfull and competitive bid from Istanbul, if not with realistic travel times and so on. Plus hoping from new passionate inn-bring of Olympic related new values that Istanbul can offer in the Cultural Olympic frame. If not, we will still lack in that issue.

Last but not least the second phase will be to get the votes of the voting IOC members. But our IOC member Ugur Erdener, aka FITA president (world achery federation) is not a charming man, nor he will have much influence as 5 italian members in the IOC. So that part must be strengthen up maybe by a female person who is charm enough with languageal skills and in promoting Istanbul as a (Bicontintal) strong technical background and historical overview of our Bid.

So much details, to run it smoothly we must have the competent skills in the house to take it .. in stead of waiting that somebody wants to give it..

Much of work to do .. the games are not simple .. not a child game .. it is more about to see and plant every detail in your plan with a smooth presentation.

regards

fatih

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so let IOC over the candidature procedure than and just 15 countries and their main cities automaticlly host the organisation... if u dont give a chance to show others u cant say anything if they can or they cant...

like eu member greece over the sport facilites at last day at 2004. but beijing built them 2 years ago or st like that

rio will be an experiment for the games if big megapolisis with lack of infrastructure then 5 star cities can make it or not...

and i dont see durban will get the games... if it was cape town ican say 1 of my favorites but icant say that for durban just will cut the votes till they eliminate if they get the list .

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I think there is a very peculiar reason why Madrid keeps bidding against all odds and common reason.

The fact is that the first Olumpic games in Spain were not held in Spain but in Catalunia. That's how Catalonians perceive them, that's how most Madrilenos and most other spaniards perceive them.

For Madrilenos especially it's a shame that the Olympic games went to their arch-rival, separatist and perceived second city before the grand ciudad. Madrid HAS to correct this wrong asap.

Of course the world has a very different perception, but I think this is the ideological spin behind Madrid bidding so close to Barcelona and even against all odds (like during last 2016 bid, where everyone knew there would not be a second european host after London)

No, that's not the main reason, believe me. Maybe a 5% of the reasons for Madrid to bid is this you're pointing out, but there are several more reasons why Madrid wants the Olympics.

Well, first of all, let me correct the statement "the first Olympic games in Spain were not held in Spain but in Catalonia": the first Games in Spain were held in Spain. No matter what they want to make us believe. I can assure that more than 85% of Catalonians feel Spanish and want to be part of Spain. And from the other 15%, not everyone supports independence - basically only politicians and friends with their mysterious interests.

Now, IMO, the main reason why Madrid wants the Games as soon as possible is because they don't like being the most important European capital that hasn't hosted the Olympics yet. I guess they believe the Olympics would help to establish Madrid as reference in Europe and the rest of the world in terms of tourism, economy and sport.

Madrid supported Barcelona 1992, and Barcelona has supported the recent Madrid bids, so rivalry isn't going that way. Troublemakers are really few people, but sadly, they're the ones who make the loudest noises.

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