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Who do you think will win?


ghost1

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And like it or not Korea is the favourite.

I'm very happy that Korea is the favourite for 2014.  Just as Paris 2012, Athens 1996, Sion 2006, Beijing 2000, Salt Lake 1998, and Moscow 1976 were all the favourites.

This will churn up the temperature and force Sofia and possibly Sochi to put in very tempting bids.

I support Sofia.

Oh, yeah. With only one nation amongst the 7 that has Winter Olympics experience, the other 6 will try to sweeten their bids big time to woo the IOC.

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A truck load of sugar and a swimming pool full of honey couldn't sweeten some of these bids.

There are only 3 to take seriously.

And we know which 3 are the ones here.

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Yeah, it's probably a dry run for the others.

P.S. After Kendegra's other thread on comparative mountain heights, it now becomes clear to me how the 2014 race will play out.  What will be the biggest liabilities for:

Salzburg - poor support from local citizenry and Austris has hosted twice;

Sofia - the distance of Bamsko from Sofia and Borovetz.   That'll make logistics quite untenable especially if PC and Salzburg will have more compact bids.

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Oy, Cordelia... :rolleyes: ever heard of spreading things around?  Who's to measure someone has more PASSION for sport than the other person?  Have you developed a system to measure it?  

Europe again?  Then they shouldn't be called the Olympic Games.  They should merely be called the European Winter Games.  Duh?

The Koreans are right up there in the short-track speedskating events - not bad for a country with barely a 60-year independent history, and ravaged by war twice in a matter of a decade.

And for passion?  Korea made it to the final 4 in the 2002 World Cup.  I'm sure there were people like you saying it should've gone to Europe because there is more passion there.  Same stupid arguement some Brits here have used in wanting to promote a 2018 WC bid -- when just this very week, the soccer powers-that-be in Britain pretty much ruled out a 2018 WC bid.  So that killed that argument.  

Salzburg?  The local citizens there don't even want the Games.  Now, there are scientific cold facts for that.  So why should it go to them?  Besides, Austria's hosted it twice -- so same lederhosen/Sound of Music theme??  

Get with it, Cordy.   :o

    Dear Baron you're precisely comparing what's not comparable. I acknowledge Korea showed a great enthusiam for 2002 Soccer World Cup but you seem to have forgotten that soccer had always been a popular sport in South Korea, practiced by thousands of people; a soccer player playing for the national team is even of the biggest stars over there, for he's not only soccer player but also model etc...

    So is that surprising to see a nation overwhelmed by passion when it is hosting a competition of one of its most popular sports? The answer is no. But I'm afraid you should open your eyes and realize that apart from speed skating and short track, Korea's interest for winter sport and, above all, Korea's know-how for organizing winter sports events is close to 0. There's no need to be some devine to guess that there will be no passion in a potential (and regrettable) PyongCheang 2014. If you think I believe olympic winter games should also be hosted by European nations you didn't understand a single thing of what I said. I even think that Canada and USA have hosted better olympic winter games than Europe so far.

      I don't know where you got the information that Austrian people didnt support their city, but I can tell you it's wrong for having been there to ski last winter. My ex-boyfriend is Austrian by the way, and he was so sad when Salzburg lost

Now Hektor:who are you to say what I say is crap? I don't just assert things I quote facts to support my logical statements. I never said alpine skiing was the only olympic winter sport, but can you quote me any olympic winter sport where Korea can win medals apart from short track?? As for ski jumping, Korea's far from being one of the best nations. I'm afraid you should watch ski jumping competions more often, and you'll see European nations win them all. Ask the Korean people what they know about winter sports, and you'll see they know (almost) nothing. Can we give the games to such people? I dont think so.

      Again, I have to say that I'm not biased or prejudiced since I'm not particularly linked with any of the country taking part to the race; I dont even absolutely want ONE city to win.  I'm just supporting Salzburg because I want what's the best for olympic winter games.

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Cordelia, I see what you are saying about support and passion.  But those aren't the only factors that determine the awarding of host city status.  

I too think a Salzburg Games would be nice - thematically, but you have to think global.  The mindset is: where should the Games go next.  It's about spreading out the 2 moments of global unity.  There are other factors like massaging the corporate sponsors that pay for the Games.  

Uhmmm, remember that Samsung is not only a TOP (The Olympic Program) Partner, paying $50 million a quadrennium to the IOC for worldwide licensing fees and the use of the rings, but with Coca-Cola, Samsung throws in another $15 mil, on top of the original $50 mil, to underwrite the Olympic Torch Relay as well.  Surely, the IOC will want to retain Samsung's company.  Now, if there were an Austrian conglomerate to replace Samsung, then it would be a whole different ballgame.  

See this link for the whole discussion on Salzburg support:  Earlier discussion on the low local support for Salzburg's 2014 bid.  

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I think that the comparison between Paris and PyeongChang is wrong... because obviously the IOC, the sport federations or the sport and media industry had no peculiar interest in selecting Paris over say, London or Madrid.

For PyeongChang, they have the opportunity to tap into the huge potential of Asia, the area in the world with the largest economic growth. If they can put the Chinese and Korean middle class on skis, snowboards and skates, they will get a lot of $$$...

Indeed, I think they would have gone for Harbin if it was ready, but Beijing will have to wait for its 'Sapporo' for one more decade.

Salzburg, this is Europe there, and not the most dynamic part of it.

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The Games in PyeongChang will be more spread out because PyeongChang is not a city, it is a region.  From what I can find, they currently only have a 4000 seat ice arena and small mountain with 16 trails.  They also lack the proper hotel infrastructure.  And what about the training facilities?  It will take huge capital investment on the part of the Koreans to turn PyeongChang into the kind of Games we saw in Salt Lake and what we're about to get in Torino and Vancouver.  And then after the Games, what the bloody hell do you do with all these new arenas and empty hotels?  Nagano struggles with that and PyeongChang will as well.

Salzburg appears to have a more compact bid plan in the development and they have the infrastructure for tourism.  The venues can also be reused, if carefully planned.

Sofia is the biggest city in this race with 1.5 million and could potentially offer a bid that is similar to what Vancouver offered.  I don't know the highway system in Bulgaria, but sounds like transportation won't be a major headache.

The Olympic Winter Games have grown and the IOC is willing to accept that ski resorts can be a bit more distant from the main Olympic celebration.  It is easier to accomodate a few skiers in a tiny village than thousands of tourists, journalists and sporting officials.  Calgary, Nagano, Salt Lake, Torino, Vancouver - all offered this type of arrangement.

The concern should not be about spreading Olympic sport to far flung corners of the world, it should be about organizing Games that are good for the athletes, limited in their risk, friendly to the environment and leave a responsible legacy.

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For once, I agree with you Baron. You've just demonstrated that if PyongCheang win, it would only be thanks to a matter of money and sponsors. Salzburg has many assets that make her almost an ideal city to host olympic winter games and what does PyongCheang have? Well...Samsung....

    I'm afraid the IOC will, once more, choose money instead of passion and olympic enchantment. If things keep going this way, we'll never have the occasion to be enchanted again by this very special "winter olympics spirit", which was a mix of sport, olympic spirit, enchanting sights full of ice and snow. As perfect illustrations of this kind of winter games we can quote Albertville, Lillehammer, or Salt Lake. (I wasnt old enough to see Calgary and former games and I personally didnt find this in Nagano). If PyongCheang it will be sponsoring's victory (which has absolutely nothing to deal with olympism) over enchantment.

  Kendegra, I totally agree with your analysis, which also proves that Salzburg should be elected.

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I would prefer Sofia, then Salzburg.  Salzburg's low popular support concerns me (think Denver 1976). Almaty and Sochi would be next on my list...if they can prove they have the mountain facilities.  The next Asian WOG should be in China.  Yabuli near Harbin has a massive vertical drop.  Harbin itself is an interesting city with the size and infrastructure to host an excellent Winter Games and would do more for developing Asian winter sport than PyeongChang.

Once Beijing hands over the Antwerp flag to London and Shanghai finishes up Expo 2010, the next big international event for China should be the 2018 or 2022 Harbin Olympic Winter Games.

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I would prefer Sofia, then Salzburg.  Salzburg's low popular support concerns me (think Denver 1976). Almaty and Sochi would be next on my list...if they can prove they have the mountain facilities.  The next Asian WOG should be in China.  Yabuli near Harbin has a massive vertical drop.  Harbin itself is an interesting city with the size and infrastructure to host an excellent Winter Games and would do more for developing Asian winter sport than PyeongChang.

Once Beijing hands over the Antwerp flag to London and Shanghai finishes up Expo 2010, the next big international event for China should be the 2018 or 2022 Harbin Olympic Winter Games.

Well, I think that the only advantage that PC has for now is the geopolitics factor, IF taken into account by the IOC - means that the WOG wasn't a long time on the Asian continent since 1998 and that's why. But I still think that new frontiers for Olympics should be accurate only for Summer Games, since the WOG accuire specific geographical and social (practicing of winter sports) conditions.

That's why I think that the situation as of now is:

1 Salzburg - technically strongest

2 PC or Sofia - geopolitics vs. a strong bid

4 Sochi - little known, but plans for a new ressort

5 Jaca or Almaty - it all depends on what bid will the kazah have, Jaca though has limited opportunities, it's a too small village

7 Borjomi - at any means the underdog in the race

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Yeah. Nagano is experiencing problems in trying to hold onto its venues, from what I have been told some time ago. It hosted the Special Olympics winter version this year, but I can't see it having any impact on the legacies front.

So, it comes down to tradition vs. new frontier. Never mind the rest of the criteria the IOC has for its candidates.

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But why do we discuss only who will win, when the next big event is the shortlist? We should discuss who will pass, who won't.

So my prediction for the shortlist:

100% - will be in

0% - won't be in

100% Salzburg, Sofia, PC - definately

70% Sochi - if they make a good bid book and we all know that the IOC loves to satisfy the Russian OC (Moscow 2012), putting their city in the shortlist, although it has no chances. This is not the case, however it all depends, we know too litle now

50% Jaca - it's a too little village, I don't think IOC will let it, the venues aren't that good too

30% Almaty - needs a lot of luck to be in the shortlist, but who knows... anyway - it is possible

5% Borjomi - should be 1%, but there are always surprizes when it comes to shortlists

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Ask the Korean people what they know about winter sports, and you'll see they know (almost) nothing. Can we give the games to such people? I dont think so.

It's interesting that you refer to Korean people, as "those people" and "such people" as if they are ignorant people who have no interest in winter sports and have never seen a set if skiis.

I've been to several ski resorts throughout Kangwon Do in Korea and all of them are at par with the many ski resorts I've visited here in Canada. The Koreans that I've met there are every bit as passionate for their skiis and winter activities as they are here in Vancouver.

Although the winter sport tradition in Korea is new compared to Europe's that is no reason to deny them the opportunity to develop that tradition. By the time 2014 comes around, Pyeongchang will have hosted a number of internation winter sport events, further solidifying the "tradition" that Cordelia18 is looking for in a 2014 Winter Olympics Candidate.

Basically the goal of Cordelia18's comments is to spread fear uncertainty and doubt about Korea's abilities to host the Winter games. Anyone who needs to rely on criticizing an entire nation in order to prop up their own has no confidence in winning their bid on their own merit. It's contrary to the conccept of Olympism and has no place in the bid process.

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Ask the Korean people what they know about winter sports, and you'll see they know (almost) nothing. Can we give the games to such people? I dont think so.

It's interesting that you refer to Korean people, as "those people" and "such people" as if they are ignorant people who have no interest in winter sports and have never seen a set if skiis.

I've been to several ski resorts throughout Kangwon Do in Korea and all of them are at par with the many ski resorts I've visited here in Canada. The Koreans that I've met there are every bit as passionate for their skiis and winter activities as they are here in Vancouver.

Although the winter sport tradition in Korea is new compared to Europe's that is no reason to deny them the opportunity to develop that tradition. By the time 2014 comes around, Pyeongchang will have hosted a number of internation winter sport events, further solidifying the "tradition" that Cordelia18 is looking for in a 2014 Winter Olympics Candidate.

Basically the goal of Cordelia18's comments is to spread fear uncertainty and doubt about Korea's abilities to host the Winter games. Anyone who needs to rely on criticizing an entire nation in order to prop up their own has no confidence in winning their bid on their own merit. It's contrary to the conccept of Olympism and has no place in the bid process.

    Prop up my own nation? Well I'm saying for the 4th time that I'm NOT Austrian and that I'm not biased at all for I have any paticular link with any of the country taking part in the 2014 race.

    I'm not criticizing Korea at all,  I have no reason to do such things and that would be purely pointless. But I'm just objectively stating that PyongCheang would not be a good choice for 2014, and I'm not the only one here to think so, yong_sa.

   As regards to the winter sports tradition, I am glad to hear you say Korea indeed has no tradition and winter sports culture, which is normal for, as you perfectly pointed out, winter sports are NEW in your country, and European or Northern American cities have practiced them, loved them, developed wonderful, comfortable and luxurious resorts for years now. But that just confirms what I was saying. Korea has no winter sports tradition and culture and can't therefore be given the 2014 games

  What you don't seem to understand is that the winter olympic games is more than a major event. So the choice of the host city can't depend on a city's capacity to develop a winter sports tradition among its population in 7 years. I'm not denying you the opportunity to develop this tradition, and I hope you'll do it through the years. But the olympic games are not something you use to develop a culture or a tradition of sports in your country. I'm sorry to tell you this, but the fact is that you first have to develop the winter sports culture in your country TO have the games. I'm sure many people will agree on this.

    Eventually, I dont think you can honestly believe Korean people can make winter sports very popular sports in the country and develop venues that are as reliable and as experimented as in European and N-American cities. Even with the best will imaginable, this is just impossible. Some sports will always remain more popular in Korea than winter sports, (for the moment, I'm not saying the situation will never evolve) and if you have the games you can't tell the people: "ok now that we have the games, I officially decide that you, the Korean people, must all love winter sports and practice them, and get to know about them". This is just ridiculous.

   My opinion is that you want to go too fast, by bidding to host winter sports when your people dont know anything about them, barely start to be interested in them (and surely not as passionate as we are in Europe or N-America) and dont have results in winter olympics that could give you credibility (apart from one single sport, short track). I think that you should just wait, you'll probably have the winter games later in the future, but if I could give you one piece of advice if you want them: just let the interest and the passion spread in your country first.

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By reading my post I just realized I had forgotten something by accident:

The first sentance of the 5th paragraph was supposed to be "Eventually, I dont think you can't honestly believe Korean people can make winter sports very popular sports in the country and develop venues that are as reliable and experimented as in European and N-American cities IN ONLY 7 YEARS "

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Ask the Korean people what they know about winter sports, and you'll see they know (almost) nothing. Can we give the games to such people? I dont think so.

It's interesting that you refer to Korean people, as "those people" and "such people" as if they are ignorant people who have no interest in winter sports and have never seen a set if skiis.

I've been to several ski resorts throughout Kangwon Do in Korea and all of them are at par with the many ski resorts I've visited here in Canada. The Koreans that I've met there are every bit as passionate for their skiis and winter activities as they are here in Vancouver.

Although the winter sport tradition in Korea is new compared to Europe's that is no reason to deny them the opportunity to develop that tradition. By the time 2014 comes around, Pyeongchang will have hosted a number of internation winter sport events, further solidifying the "tradition" that Cordelia18 is looking for in a 2014 Winter Olympics Candidate.

Basically the goal of Cordelia18's comments is to spread fear uncertainty and doubt about Korea's abilities to host the Winter games. Anyone who needs to rely on criticizing an entire nation in order to prop up their own has no confidence in winning their bid on their own merit. It's contrary to the conccept of Olympism and has no place in the bid process.

    Prop up my own nation? Well I'm saying for the 4th time that I'm NOT Austrian and that I'm not biased at all for I have any paticular link with any of the country taking part in the 2014 race.

    I'm not criticizing Korea at all,  I have no reason to do such things and that would be purely pointless. But I'm just objectively stating that PyongCheang would not be a good choice for 2014, and I'm not the only one here to think so, yong_sa.

   As regards to the winter sports tradition, I am glad to hear you say Korea indeed has no tradition and winter sports culture, which is normal for, as you perfectly pointed out, winter sports are NEW in your country, and European or Northern American cities have practiced them, loved them, developed wonderful, comfortable and luxurious resorts for years now. But that just confirms what I was saying. Korea has no winter sports tradition and culture and can't therefore be given the 2014 games

  What you don't seem to understand is that the winter olympic games is more than a major event. So the choice of the host city can't depend on a city's capacity to develop a winter sports tradition among its population in 7 years. I'm not denying you the opportunity to develop this tradition, and I hope you'll do it through the years. But the olympic games are not something you use to develop a culture or a tradition of sports in your country. I'm sorry to tell you this, but the fact is that you first have to develop the winter sports culture in your country TO have the games. I'm sure many people will agree on this.

    Eventually, I dont think you can honestly believe Korean people can make winter sports very popular sports in the country and develop venues that are as reliable and as experimented as in European and N-American cities. Even with the best will imaginable, this is just impossible. Some sports will always remain more popular in Korea than winter sports, (for the moment, I'm not saying the situation will never evolve) and if you have the games you can't tell the people: "ok now that we have the games, I officially decide that you, the Korean people, must all love winter sports and practice them, and get to know about them". This is just ridiculous.

   My opinion is that you want to go too fast, by bidding to host winter sports when your people dont know anything about them, barely start to be interested in them (and surely not as passionate as we are in Europe or N-America) and dont have results in winter olympics that could give you credibility (apart from one single sport, short track). I think that you should just wait, you'll probably have the winter games later in the future, but if I could give you one piece of advice if you want them: just let the interest and the passion spread in your country first.

I'd like to know your opinion on the Japanese Winter games and also if Harbin, China were to bid?

what your basically saying is that only North American/European cities should be allowed to host WOG? amd i incorrect?

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Ask the Korean people what they know about winter sports, and you'll see they know (almost) nothing. Can we give the games to such people? I dont think so.

It's interesting that you refer to Korean people, as "those people" and "such people" as if they are ignorant people who have no interest in winter sports and have never seen a set if skiis.

I've been to several ski resorts throughout Kangwon Do in Korea and all of them are at par with the many ski resorts I've visited here in Canada. The Koreans that I've met there are every bit as passionate for their skiis and winter activities as they are here in Vancouver.

Although the winter sport tradition in Korea is new compared to Europe's that is no reason to deny them the opportunity to develop that tradition. By the time 2014 comes around, Pyeongchang will have hosted a number of internation winter sport events, further solidifying the "tradition" that Cordelia18 is looking for in a 2014 Winter Olympics Candidate.

Basically the goal of Cordelia18's comments is to spread fear uncertainty and doubt about Korea's abilities to host the Winter games. Anyone who needs to rely on criticizing an entire nation in order to prop up their own has no confidence in winning their bid on their own merit. It's contrary to the conccept of Olympism and has no place in the bid process.

    Prop up my own nation? Well I'm saying for the 4th time that I'm NOT Austrian and that I'm not biased at all for I have any paticular link with any of the country taking part in the 2014 race.

    I'm not criticizing Korea at all,  I have no reason to do such things and that would be purely pointless. But I'm just objectively stating that PyongCheang would not be a good choice for 2014, and I'm not the only one here to think so, yong_sa.

   As regards to the winter sports tradition, I am glad to hear you say Korea indeed has no tradition and winter sports culture, which is normal for, as you perfectly pointed out, winter sports are NEW in your country, and European or Northern American cities have practiced them, loved them, developed wonderful, comfortable and luxurious resorts for years now. But that just confirms what I was saying. Korea has no winter sports tradition and culture and can't therefore be given the 2014 games

  What you don't seem to understand is that the winter olympic games is more than a major event. So the choice of the host city can't depend on a city's capacity to develop a winter sports tradition among its population in 7 years. I'm not denying you the opportunity to develop this tradition, and I hope you'll do it through the years. But the olympic games are not something you use to develop a culture or a tradition of sports in your country. I'm sorry to tell you this, but the fact is that you first have to develop the winter sports culture in your country TO have the games. I'm sure many people will agree on this.

    Eventually, I dont think you can honestly believe Korean people can make winter sports very popular sports in the country and develop venues that are as reliable and as experimented as in European and N-American cities. Even with the best will imaginable, this is just impossible. Some sports will always remain more popular in Korea than winter sports, (for the moment, I'm not saying the situation will never evolve) and if you have the games you can't tell the people: "ok now that we have the games, I officially decide that you, the Korean people, must all love winter sports and practice them, and get to know about them". This is just ridiculous.

   My opinion is that you want to go too fast, by bidding to host winter sports when your people dont know anything about them, barely start to be interested in them (and surely not as passionate as we are in Europe or N-America) and dont have results in winter olympics that could give you credibility (apart from one single sport, short track). I think that you should just wait, you'll probably have the winter games later in the future, but if I could give you one piece of advice if you want them: just let the interest and the passion spread in your country first.

I'd like to know your opinion on the Japanese Winter games and also if Harbin, China were to bid?

what your basically saying is that only North American/European cities should be allowed to host WOG? amd i incorrect?

I think this is what she's trying to say - well without success, because its'nt true - new frontiers for WOG, remember that phrase, Cordelia? The Games are for the whole world, they aren't "booked" for a special part of it. What about southern hemisphere? Christchurch, Santiago? They are all capable of hosting WOG, aren't they? OK, around the equator isn't the best place to hold WOG, but Asia - why not? This also will bring great legacy to the city, country, even the whole continent

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Cordelia, I didn't think I would read something like your prose one day on that forum.

All i can hope is that you're very young and immature and don't realize what you are writing.

This is a very sad day for me.

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Cordelia, I didn't think I would read something like your prose one day on that forum.

All i can hope is that you're very young and immature and don't realize what you are writing.

This is a very sad day for me.

For me too

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A sad day because of what? Simply because I said what my opinion was? This is just ridiculous. If hearing a point of view is sad simply because it's different as yours, then this day is sad because of YOU because that means you can't dialog and try to understand and accept people's opinions, as different from yours they can be.

  When I saw people here supporting PyongCheang I don't think I disregarded their opinions and I didnt say their opinions had brought sadness to my day. What you're doing is just so disrespectful and please let me tell you that I'm way more mature than you, simply because I can accept and tolerate other people's opinions, without insulting them which you're obviously unable to do.

     Now if I can I'm going to answer the interesting replies that are not pointless and that were let by the educated people who didnt speak for nothing like you (hektor and ghost except your 1st message).

Verdict: I enjoyed Nagano 1998 winter games even if they're not my favourite, but Japan's situation isnt the same as Korea; winter sports have much more importance in Japan than in Korea and Japanese people have developed a winter sports tradition which was already well spread when Nagano had the games. So Japanese people could easily have the necessary passion to host the WOG. Besides, Japanese cities, even if they're not as used as European and N-American cities to receiving people for winter sports and although their ski resorts are not as experimented and well-made as ours, I have to say they're acceptable and satisfying to host the WOG. Harbin is another story. The Chinese shouldnt be given the WOG for the same reasons as the Koreans, and I'm not going to repeat them here.

ghost: I'm going to answer you in spite of the blatent support your brought to Hektor's rudeness, because I'm a respectful and well-mannered person. I never said the games werent for the whole world. I never said Christchurch or Santiago were automically bad choices for the WOG, but can you please quote me any famous and talened New-Zealander or Chilean athlete who illustrated himself during the WOG? Can you quote me any winter sport where New Zealand or Chile are particularly strong? Can you HONESTLY say that New Zealanders or Chileans have a strong and long-aged winter sports tradition and culture?Do you sincerely believe New Zealanders and Chileans have an interest for winter sports as big as Europeans or N-Americans? Let's be serious.

    The question is not what city COULD TECHNICALLY host the games, because all the cities taking part to the olympic races normally have the physical capacity to host them, because the people who decide to bid have brains, they're not stupid. The Mayor of Nairobi knows he can't bid for the WOG for instance. The question is: what people want the games most, where are the sports most loved and who are the people that are the most passionate about these sports. What countries already have know-how and cities that have great facilities that are experimented in the welcoming of tourists each year, who come to do winter sports. I dont think we can organize the WOG in a country which still doesnt have a winter sports culture among its population.

     I want what is the best for the WOG and I would strongly find it insulting for them to organize them in a city where people COULDNT CARE LESS about them. It's only because I love the WOG that I find it bad to give them to Korea, and what is true for Korea is true for New Zealand or Chile since you took these 2 examples. I'm ok to give to games to the whole world, here is not the problem, I'm not saying only Europe and N-America should be given the WOG: but only the countries who have the strongest interest and the strongest passion and culture for the WOG.

      In this World there are countries that are still not ready to organize WOG, (again, in terms of people, and culture, not technically) and others who can offer us the best WOG, with the spirit, enthusiasm and everything that goes with it. I hope you know understood what I was saying, and the reason of my NO to PyongCheang. Even someone who doesnt agree with me should recognize the exactitute of my statements.

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A sad day because of what? Simply because I said what my opinion was? This is just ridiculous. If hearing a point of view is sad simply because it's different as yours, then this day is sad because of YOU because that means you can't dialog and try to understand and accept people's opinions, as different from yours they can be.

  When I saw people here supporting PyongCheang I don't think I disregarded their opinions and I didnt say their opinions had brought sadness to my day. What you're doing is just so disrespectful and please let me tell you that I'm way more mature than you, simply because I can accept and tolerate other people's opinions, without insulting them which you're obviously unable to do.

     Now if I can I'm going to answer the interesting replies that are not pointless and that were let by the educated people who didnt speak for nothing like you (hektor and ghost except your 1st message).

Verdict: I enjoyed Nagano 1998 winter games even if they're not my favourite, but Japan's situation isnt the same as Korea; winter sports have much more importance in Japan than in Korea and Japanese people have developed a winter sports tradition which was already well spread when Nagano had the games. So Japanese people could easily have the necessary passion to host the WOG. Besides, Japanese cities, even if they're not as used as European and N-American cities to receiving people for winter sports and although their ski resorts are not as experimented and well-made as ours, I have to say they're acceptable and satisfying to host the WOG. Harbin is another story. The Chinese shouldnt be given the WOG for the same reasons as the Koreans, and I'm not going to repeat them here.

ghost: I'm going to answer you in spite of the blatent support your brought to Hektor's rudeness, because I'm a respectful and well-mannered person. I never said the games werent for the whole world. I never said Christchurch or Santiago were automically bad choices for the WOG, but can you please quote me any famous and talened New-Zealander or Chilean athlete who illustrated himself during the WOG? Can you quote me any winter sport where New Zealand or Chile are particularly strong? Can you HONESTLY say that New Zealanders or Chileans have a strong and long-aged winter sports tradition and culture?Do you sincerely believe New Zealanders and Chileans have an interest for winter sports as big as Europeans or N-Americans? Let's be serious.

    The question is not what city COULD TECHNICALLY host the games, because all the cities taking part to the olympic races normally have the physical capacity to host them, because the people who decide to bid have brains, they're not stupid. The Mayor of Nairobi knows he can't bid for the WOG for instance. The question is: what people want the games most, where are the sports most loved and who are the people that are the most passionate about these sports. What countries already have know-how and cities that have great facilities that are experimented in the welcoming of tourists each year, who come to do winter sports. I dont think we can organize the WOG in a country which still doesnt have a winter sports culture among its population.

     I want what is the best for the WOG and I would strongly find it insulting for them to organize them in a city where people COULDNT CARE LESS about them. It's only because I love the WOG that I find it bad to give them to Korea, and what is true for Korea is true for New Zealand or Chile since you took these 2 examples. I'm ok to give to games to the whole world, here is not the problem, I'm not saying only Europe and N-America should be given the WOG: but only the countries who have the strongest interest and the strongest passion and culture for the WOG.

      In this World there are countries that are still not ready to organize WOG, (again, in terms of people, and culture, not technically) and others who can offer us the best WOG, with the spirit, enthusiasm and everything that goes with it. I hope you know understood what I was saying, and the reason of my NO to PyongCheang. Even someone who doesnt agree with me should recognize the exactitute of my statements.

what about the Japanese Winter games before nagano? if i'm correct i believe that winter sports were not that spread out in Japan nor was it popular at the time, however the WOG then allowed for Japan to mature in the games and host again?

I'd like to add that even though Korea doesnt get many medals, it does pretty well for its size and its relative history, so would you not give them any credit? Japan doesnt do to well either?

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Japan might not do too well either, but they still do better than Korea: they're present and do quite well in ski jump, speed skating, figure skating, snowboard. And maybe other sports that don't come in my mind right now, but that's already more than Korea's only sport where they're present, short track.

  And anyway, the performances and results made at the WOG arent the major factor for which Korea shouldnt be given the WOG. It's just a factor that confirms what I said about tradition and winter sports culture.

     Now if you ask me the question, as regards to the earlier Japanese WOG than Nagano, I'm sorry but I wasnt born yet to see them (Sapporo ..). My birth year is 1986 so the first WOG I saw were Albertville 92 (I was too young for Calgary 88   :laugh: )

so I cant answer your question, for I dont speak about what I dont know.

   Now all I still can say is that I dont fully agree with you when you say Japan's winter sports culture and tradition wasnt spread out at the time. I wasnt born but I know Sapporo took place during the early 70's, and Japan has always had a minimum of winter sports culture, and because of the Japanese lifestyle the people there always had to develop skills to practice them, be it just to be able to live in spite of the presence of the numerous mountains.

So, to answer your final question, I wont give PyongCheang any credit. A minimum of winter sports tradition and culture are necessary to spread passion and interest among the people, and a minimum of know-how about the welcoming of people coming to practice winter sports as well. All I can do now is hope the IOC members will see that (and not just the Samsung's partnership that should help the Koreans!) to spare us a possible disaster...

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