FIFA WC USA-Mexico-Canada 2026

[Quaker2001]

Regarding a possible Canadian bid, it appears to be highly excepted that a World Cup bid (not to mention a possible Olympic bid) would see construction of new stadium in Toronto that would then be home to an NFL team. I think that's not as likely as one might think. First of all, the NFL has put the brakes on future expansion. If Toronto wants an NFL team, it's going to have to be via relocation of a current franchise. Speculation over the years has focused on the Buffalo Bills and I expect that to resurface with the passing of team owner Ralph Wilson though potential owners are lining up to keep the team in Buffalo. The most likely candidates for relocation are the Jacksonville Jaguars and St. Louis Rams, but the city first in line for relocation is Los Angeles and the league has made it clear they want a team in the second largest media market in the U.S. After that, it appears London is next in line. Commissioner Roger Godell has made no secret about the possibility of a franchise in London. So while Toronto would get consideration, they seem to be second or third in line for NFL relocation. What would Toronto do with a 75-80,000 seat stadium with no NFL team? I suppose it could be the home of the Argonauts with Rogers Centre being configured permanently for baseball, but it's hard to see Toronto constructing a new stadium without a guarantee of it being the home for an NFL team after a World Cup.

It's definitely the same phenomenon we're seeing in Los Angeles.. they won't build a stadium until they know they have a team, but no team is going to move there until they know there's a stadium. Classic case of which came first, the chicken or the egg. So it is with Toronto. They aren't on the NFL's radar now. So if they build a stadium, there's no guarantee a team (let alone an NFL team) will occupy it. To say nothing of the fact that we're talking about a point in time 12 years into the future.

[Faster]

Honestly they could follow Atlanta's model. Build a stadium and than reconfigure to a baseball specific afterwards. Skydome is getting old and that part of Toronto would be prime condo and shopping real estate.

[Quaker2001]

Honestly they could follow Atlanta's model. Build a stadium and than reconfigure to a baseball specific afterwards. Skydome is getting old and that part of Toronto would be prime condo and shopping real estate.

Yea and how's that working out for the Braves. 20 years after the Olympics and they're going to move. Not because of any issues with the stadium but because of the location.

So yea, Skydome is getting up there in years, but if that location is so valuable, why would they want to leave it? Right on the edge of downtown seems like an ideal spot for them. Where would this new stadium be? Would it be in a location that's suitable and preferred by the Blue Jays? Are they interested in moving?

Remember the issue of ownership here (that often seems to be forgotten in these forums).. Fulton County Stadium was owned and operated by the city of Atlanta, not the Braves. The arrangement with Turner Field was that once the stadium was converted for baseball, it would be operated by the Braves, but it's still owned by the city of Atlanta.

SkyDome/Rogers Centre OTOH, is not owned or operated by the city of Toronto. It's owned by Rogers Communications, who of course also owns the Blue Jays. It's part of why they're talking about kicking the Argos out to make the stadium more baseball-friendly. They can do that because they own the stadium. If the city of Toronto and/or the Canada Soccer Association want to build a new stadium in order to attract the World Cup, what's the ownership situation going to be? Are the Blue Jays and their parent corporation going to move from a building they own and operate into one owned and/or operated by the city? I doubt it.

So no, an Atlanta situation probably wouldn't work here and I doubt Rogers would be enticed by the plan under they had a lot of control over the situation. Good luck with that.

Edit: that should say "unless they had a lot of control"

[yoshi]

Is there really not enough market in a city of Toronto's size to handle an 80000 seat stadium, as a home to the WC final, the Argos, the Canadian national soccer & rugby teams, & a potential Olympics?

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

Is there really not enough market in a city of Toronto's size to handle an 80000 seat stadium, as a home to the WC final, the Argos, the Canadian national soccer & rugby teams, & a potential Olympics?

Not in the same year, but maybe Canada World Cup 2026 and Toronto Summer Olympics 2032?

[ofan]

Obviously not in the same year Tony. The World Cup is in the same year as the Winter Olympics, which Toronto will never hold.

The NFL is really the only suitable option for post-World Cup. You can't really downsize it for the Argos and then build it back up for a potential Olympics.

[intoronto]

Is there really not enough market in a city of Toronto's size to handle an 80000 seat stadium, as a home to the WC final, the Argos, the Canadian national soccer & rugby teams, & a potential Olympics?

No there isn't. Canada's friendly games struggle to draw at BMO Field. The Argos barely draw over 25,000. So a stadium of that size at this point is a white elephant.

[yoshi]

So when they say TO is a hockey & baseball town, they're right...that's pretty much all the city really cares about, sports wise. To relate it to somewhere in this country (obvs on a massively smaller scale) it's a bit like Gloucester - it does have a football (soccer) team, but it's very much a second-class citizen compared to rugby. So would they have to look at a Toronto version of the London Olympic stadium, 80-90000 seats during the WC/Olys, & 30-40000 seats after for the Argos & Toronto FC?

[Quaker2001]

So when they say TO is a hockey & baseball town, they're right...that's pretty much all the city really cares about, sports wise. To relate it to somewhere in this country (obvs on a massively smaller scale) it's a bit like Gloucester - it does have a football (soccer) team, but it's very much a second-class citizen compared to rugby. So would they have to look at a Toronto version of the London Olympic stadium, 80-90000 seats during the WC/Olys, & 30-40000 seats after for the Argos & Toronto FC?

Basketball also draws pretty well there. The Raptors' attendance is in the top half of the NBA and that's with them not having made the playoffs in a number of years (although that's going to change this year). But yea, Toronto has little need for an 80,000 seat stadium. As int noted, the primary tenant for such a stadium would probably be the Argos and they don't need that large of a stadium. At this point, SkyDome/Rogers Centre is more than adequate at around 50,000 for baseball and other events.

[Team USA]

New to this thread when are they picking the host and is the USA in the running Sorry if this was answered before

[intoronto]

So when they say TO is a hockey & baseball town, they're right...that's pretty much all the city really cares about, sports wise. To relate it to somewhere in this country (obvs on a massively smaller scale) it's a bit like Gloucester - it does have a football (soccer) team, but it's very much a second-class citizen compared to rugby. So would they have to look at a Toronto version of the London Olympic stadium, 80-90000 seats during the WC/Olys, & 30-40000 seats after for the Argos & Toronto FC?

Its a stretch to even call it a baseball town. Its hockey town nothing else. Not sure if MLSE will be interested in moving TFC 10 years later to a new stadium when they are making a $90 million investment in its current ground.

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

Fair enough Toronto don't require 80,000 Seats, but for example do what Qatar 2022 (I realise that's a bad example), but Lusail Iconic Stadium will hold 86,250 Seats during the Fifa World Cup in 2022, afterwards will hold 20,000 Seats. So Temporary Seating is the solution.

[Durban Sandshark]

We're at a seemingly a golden age for Toronto basketball with the city always being the epicenter of rising young Canadian basketball talent in recent years (both male and female) playing in colleges, high schools, and in the pros that can translate into mainstays on the Canadian national basketball programs. The Raptors' presence certainly helps in getting local youth, many from Toronto's multicultural and immigrant communities, hooked onto the sport

Even the NLL indoor lacrosse team, the Toronto Rock, draws well at the Air Canada Centre and earns decent local media coverage up there. And lacrosse has a sizable following in Canada, like up in Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, Hamilton, Ottawa, and Vancouver.

[Quaker2001]

Fair enough Toronto don't require 80,000 Seats, but for example do what Qatar 2022 (I realise that's a bad example), but Lusail Iconic Stadium will hold 86,250 Seats during the Fifa World Cup in 2022, afterwards will hold 20,000 Seats. So Temporary Seating is the solution.

Qatar 2022 is a bad example. In Qatar, they have a seemingly limitless supply of money and available land. That's not the case in a major city like Toronto. Easier said than done to say that temporary seating is the solution. London made their Olympic plan work for the city. Could be a tough sell for Toronto to do the same for an Olympics or a World Cup and for such a stadium to leave a lasting legacy.

[Tony E Loves Architecture]

Qatar 2022 is a bad example. In Qatar, they have a seemingly limitless supply of money and available land. That's not the case in a major city like Toronto. Easier said than done to say that temporary seating is the solution. London made their Olympic plan work for the city. Could be a tough sell for Toronto to do the same for an Olympics or a World Cup and for such a stadium to leave a lasting legacy.

Yes, but if your going to Host a World Cup and you don't need a high Capacity Stadium afterwards, then that is the solution.

[thatsnotmypuppy]

For fuckk sake Tony - no-one is denying that. The point that is being made is that in Toronto there is nowhere really to just slap down a down-sizeable stadium in a central location. Regardless of what capacity the stadium ends up being it will need a massive land footprint in the primary event mode. Furthermore Toronto has enough stadiums and venues for it's forseeable future needs. Canadians will not put up with another Montreal 76.

[Faster]

I have been thinking about the Toronto stadium issue. I believe the biggest hinderance to the public supporting any stadium is what happened with the Skydome. Skydome was built for 570 million, debit bought out and sold for 151 million by the Ontario government. it is still an issue with many in Toronto. I cannot imagine Torontoians being willing to spend 1 billion for a stadium to have Rogers, who whomever swindle it out of the city for 4% of construction costs.

[stryker]

Regarding the temporary stadium solution, we have really yet to see either a World Cup or an Olympics where a stadium in the 80,000 capacity range is successfully scaled down to a manageable size of 20-25,000. West Ham stepped in and took over the London Olympic Stadium. As for Qatar, they say that the majority of the stadiums are composed of temporary structures that will be scaled down and the parts donated to help football infrastructure in poorer countries. I'll believe that when I see it. Deciding what to do with the dismantled part of a stadium is about as great of a headache as finding a tenant for a larger permanent one which leads me back to my original argument, Toronto is not going to build an 80,000 seat stadium without an NFL franchise.

[Lord David]

12 venues in 12 cities for 4 groups of 3 venues. Sounds good to me.

Does Moncton need an athletics stadium? Could you remove the track and make a proper stadium bowl? Make this at 25,000+ with 15,000 temporary seats.

[Mexico2026]

The US is to busy trying to the the 2024 summer olympic

Games and I don't think they will bid for the

World Cup, instead Mexico will host it for the 3rd time!

[Mexico2026]

Mexico 2026

[Quaker2001]

The US is to busy trying to the the 2024 summer olympic

Games and I don't think they will bid for the

World Cup, instead Mexico will host it for the 3rd time!

The vote for the 2024 Summer Olympics occurs in 2017. Pretty good chance the United States will NOT have 1 of their cities selected as host. The 2026 World Cup bidding likely will not start til after then. Even if it didn't, it's a completely different organizational body that deals with a World Cup bid as opposed to an Olympic bid. If you're counting on the 2024 Olympics to prevent the United States from bidding for the 2026 World Cup, I think you're going to be sorely disappointed.

[Nacre]

Fair enough Toronto don't require 80,000 Seats, but for example do what Qatar 2022 (I realise that's a bad example), but Lusail Iconic Stadium will hold 86,250 Seats during the Fifa World Cup in 2022, afterwards will hold 20,000 Seats. So Temporary Seating is the solution.

You still have to pay to remodel the stadium afterwards, though. A temporary stadium requires you to spend several hundred million on a stadium that you will only use for a few weeks, and Canadians won't be stupid enough to fall for any shenanigans with the main stadium after what happened in Montreal in 1976.

And, of course, you still need to find the land.

If they got the Bills to relocate to Toronto from Buffalo then it could work, though. If the Bills can sustain a 72,000 capacity stadium in Buffalo I'm sure an 80,000 capacity stadium would work in Toronto. And the Bills are currently for sale . . .

Qatar 2022 is a bad example. In Qatar, they have a seemingly limitless supply of money and available land.

Completely off topic, but this may not be the case for too long. Their debt has exceeded their GDP, IIRC.

[stryker]

I don't think the Bills are going anywhere. First they just extended their lease by 10 years at Ralph Wilson Stadium. That gives new ownership time to get the long desired waterfront stadium built. The two frontrunners for new ownership are former Bills quarterback Jim Kelly (his health is a serious issue though) and the current owner of the Buffalo Sabres. The more likely candidates to relocate are the St. Louis Rams and the Jacksonville Jaguars, though Los Angeles is at the top of the list for relocation in the NFL.

[Faster]

I don't think the Bills are going anywhere. First they just extended their lease by 10 years at Ralph Wilson Stadium. That gives new ownership time to get the long desired waterfront stadium built. The two frontrunners for new ownership are former Bills quarterback Jim Kelly (his health is a serious issue though) and the current owner of the Buffalo Sabres. The more likely candidates to relocate are the St. Louis Rams and the Jacksonville Jaguars, though Los Angeles is at the top of the list for relocation in the NFL.

Ralph Wilson specifically extended the lease so that any new owner would have to stay in Buffalo until 2020. After that all bets are off. The economics of the Buffalo Bills will not make sense with a new owner. The city of Buffalo does not have the money to finance a new stadium and any new owner is not going to spend 870 million on the team and than another billion on a new stadium when the economics of the city will mean that owner will never see that money again.

St. Louis isn't going anywhere either. Kroenke spent a lot of years trying to get control of the Rams, he's a local boy and he is not going to move the team anywhere, especially since his other city already has a team.