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Durban 2020


Rafa

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More importantly, when are we going to hear from important IOC members with stature related to the executive board or previous significant influence in past winning bids? So far the only ones to address any potential SA bid either directly or indirectly are Jacques himself, Sepp (no surprise there) and Nawal El Moutawakell. Where do the likes of Rana, Pound, Bach, Coates, Gilady etc etc sit re Durban? If there's going to be a hope for Durban it needs to already be getting some key IOC members talking about it...

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Sam Ramsamy is on the executive so I don't see an issue.

I'm hoping for some info. from some alleged confidential documents in the next few weeks, but the IOC being in Durban in 2011, followed by presidents from most nations for the UN Climate Change summit, exposure is certainly no longer an issue.

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Sam Ramsamy is on the executive so I don't see an issue.

I'm hoping for some info. from some alleged confidential documents in the next few weeks, but the IOC being in Durban in 2011, followed by presidents from most nations for the UN Climate Change summit, exposure is certainly no longer an issue.

Ramsamy is a key (and obviously home town) supporter within the IOC. His role in the dismantling of the barriers associated with SA's exclusion due to the apartheid era was paramount and of course this will draw a lot of support from African IOC members.

Question is how will he be able to offset and lobby against the influence of Mario Pescante (assuming there isn't a great split amongst leading European members with a Madrid bid).

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More importantly, when are we going to hear from important IOC members with stature related to the executive board or previous significant influence in past winning bids? So far the only ones to address any potential SA bid either directly or indirectly are Jacques himself, Sepp (no surprise there) and Nawal El Moutawakell. Where do the likes of Rana, Pound, Bach, Coates, Gilady etc etc sit re Durban? If there's going to be a hope for Durban it needs to already be getting some key IOC members talking about it...

Way too early to start worrying about that yet. We still have just under a year till the 2018 vote, and about a year till the applicant's list for 2020 gets finalised. Another year after that for the candidate's list to get finilised, and THEN we can start expecting the hard sell and messaging to get going in earnest.

And anyway, when it comes to talk about 2020, it's South Africa that's already sparking nearly all the early comments and speculation. Where's all the talk from key IOC members about Rome, Tokyo, Madrid et al?

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Where's all the talk from key IOC members about Rome, Tokyo, Madrid et al?

If they're wise, they should sit up and put their ear to the ground. It'll save them a lot of pain, heartache and expense. If any of those cities launch a 2020 bid, it'll be a warm-up to a more serious 2024 run.

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Here are some of the hotels in Durban:

1. Southern Sun Elangeni - **** - 450 rooms - built 1971 and 1973

2. Garden Court South Beach - *** - 411 rooms - built 1972

3. Garden Court Marine Parade - *** - 344 rooms - built 1985

4. Durban Hilton - ***** - 327 rooms - built 1997

5. Southern Sun North Beach - *** - 280 rooms - built 1978

6. Royal Hotel - ***** - 272 rooms - built 1979

7. Blue Waters Hotel - *** - 265 rooms - built 1972

8. Umhlanga Sands - *** - 237 rooms - built 1977

9. Cabana Beach - *** - 218 rooms - built 1976

10. Suncoast Hotel - ***** - 180 rooms - built 2006

Accommodation issues for a bid from Durban for the 2020 Summer Olympics.

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Here are some of the hotels in Durban:

1. Southern Sun Elangeni - **** - 450 rooms - built 1971 and 1973

2. Garden Court South Beach - *** - 411 rooms - built 1972

3. Garden Court Marine Parade - *** - 344 rooms - built 1985

4. Durban Hilton - ***** - 327 rooms - built 1997

5. Southern Sun North Beach - *** - 280 rooms - built 1978

6. Royal Hotel - ***** - 272 rooms - built 1979

7. Blue Waters Hotel - *** - 265 rooms - built 1972

8. Umhlanga Sands - *** - 237 rooms - built 1977

9. Cabana Beach - *** - 218 rooms - built 1976

10. Suncoast Hotel - ***** - 180 rooms - built 2006

Accommodation issues for a bid from Durban for the 2020 Summer Olympics.

Nnnngggggghhh! Get ten of the 2,000 cabin cruise ships, and you'll automatically have 20,000 rooms for 3 weeks there!!

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Here are some of the hotels in Durban:

1. Southern Sun Elangeni - **** - 450 rooms - built 1971 and 1973

2. Garden Court South Beach - *** - 411 rooms - built 1972

3. Garden Court Marine Parade - *** - 344 rooms - built 1985

4. Durban Hilton - ***** - 327 rooms - built 1997

5. Southern Sun North Beach - *** - 280 rooms - built 1978

6. Royal Hotel - ***** - 272 rooms - built 1979

7. Blue Waters Hotel - *** - 265 rooms - built 1972

8. Umhlanga Sands - *** - 237 rooms - built 1977

9. Cabana Beach - *** - 218 rooms - built 1976

10. Suncoast Hotel - ***** - 180 rooms - built 2006

Accommodation issues for a bid from Durban for the 2020 Summer Olympics.

Go away!

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The issue of hotel rooms has been covered so many times before. That list is also very out of date. 2200 extra hotel rooms have opened in the city in the past 12 months and a further 700 are also currently under construction and a further 700 have firm plans to start construction next year. This is in 2010. 2020 is a long way away, alot more hotels will come on stream. And yes cruise ships will obviously be part of the plan.

Yes we are low on hotel specific rooms, but if you take into account guesthouses and massive supply of holiday homes and timeshare the picture is not overly bleak

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I think current figures put Durban at about 6,600 hotel rooms in the required 3-5 star category.

No doubt it will take a knock given the accommodation weighting but building hotels is not the solution. A combination of housing villages, media villages and cruise ships would contribute towards meeting the 40,000 room 3-5 star requirement.

Been looking at the venues for the past week, and one really does wonder by Delhi built things like "rugby stadia" and "archery fields" and "wreslting/weightlifting halls".

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  • 1 month later...

I feel that I have been discussing the Durban plan in the wrong thread.

Does anyone like dysan1 and Rafa could provide an idea of what should be the overall concept? Where the OV and the MV would be located? General venue plan? Where new accommodation would be likely to be made available? What is the transport concept? How would the athletes get access to the city (airport)?

It is not that I don't trust you to have a good plan, but there are too many doubts for me in regards to Durban being ready.

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That's what many said 4 years ago about Rio, too.

And if anything, I think events happening for Durban seem to be on a more rational and even pace in terms of lead-time and getting things done than Brazil-Rio.

As the article linked on the other thread says, 2004 was the year Durban hatched and launched its 2020 Olympic master plan. So

2004-2010 - prep for the World Cup

2011 - hosting the IOC and the UN Conferences; coordinating w/ Pretoria for the financing; lining up other world championships;

2012 - full throttle with the 2020 campaign

2013 - crunch time

2019 - test events time

2020 - showtime

At least Durban/RSA has a 10-year breathing time between what they accomplished for 2010 and then the 2nd big hurrah for 2020 unlike the 2 year gasp for Brazil 2014 and Rio 2016. With RSA's experience from 2010, HOW CAN they not have all the right things ready for 2020?? Danny Jordan (RSA's architect for 2010) apparently dreamt of the RSA hosting the World Cup right after USA 1994 -- so that was a 16 year gestation time period.

Durban has set its Olympic dream scheme in motion since 2004. Sixteen years dreaming and executing the World Cup plan worked the first time; don't see why just 1 city now can't profit from that 1st experience (and the other 3 soccer satellite cities are ready to go at the drop of a hat).

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That's what many said 4 years ago about Rio, too.

And they were right. To convince the IOC that Rio was ready it took a lot of meetings and presentations. It required a lot of travel around the world by the Rio bid team and by the government officials behind the plan. Moreover, the plan was carefully built to offset the weaknesses of the city and the people assigned to present it was properly prepared to answer the main questions.

I am not doubting Durban, I just don't know what they are planning. They can offset the risk of the airport by flying a lot of people through Jo'burg. They might plan to receive an extensive number of cruise ships during the SOG with a big refurbishing of their passenger terminals at the port. They might be planning a new convention center or to erect temporary facilities to host the vast majority of the indoor events and/or to host the IBC/MPC facilities.

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And if anything, I think events happening for Durban seem to be on a more rational and even pace in terms of lead-time and getting things done than Brazil-Rio.

As the article linked on the other thread says, 2004 was the year Durban hatched and launched its 2020 Olympic master plan. So

2004-2010 - prep for the World Cup

2011 - hosting the IOC and the UN Conferences; coordinating w/ Pretoria for the financing; lining up other world championships;

2012 - full throttle with the 2020 campaign

2013 - crunch time

2019 - test events time

2020 - showtime

At least Durban/RSA has a 10-year breathing time between what they accomplished for 2010 and then the 2nd big hurrah for 2020 unlike the 2 year gasp for Brazil 2014 and Rio 2016. With RSA's experience from 2010, HOW CAN they not have all the right things ready for 2020?? Danny Jordan (RSA's architect for 2010) apparently dreamt of the RSA hosting the World Cup right after USA 1994 -- so that was a 16 year gestation time period.

Durban has set its Olympic dream scheme in motion since 2004. Sixteen years dreaming and executing the World Cup plan worked the first time; don't see why just 1 city now can't profit from that 1st experience (and the other 3 soccer satellite cities are ready to go at the drop of a hat).

There is just one big problem with this story. The WC was a result of political maneuvering more than anything. Blatter and his crew organized everything for RSA to get the WC in 2006. In the last moment, though, an Oceania ExCom member did not cast his vote, giving the victory to Germany. To make sure that this wouldn't be repeated, FIFA created the continental rotation rule that lived only enough for it to pay its debt to the main operators of the 2006 vote (AFC and Conmebol/CBF).

Neither Brazil or RSA would be likely to be elected to host the WC if FIFA used the same approach as does the IOC, with continental rotation being just an unwritten rule and with a rather open bid process and a diverse electorate.

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And they were right. To convince the IOC that Rio was ready it took a lot of meetings and presentations. It required a lot of travel around the world by the Rio bid team and by the government officials behind the plan. Moreover, the plan was carefully built to offset the weaknesses of the city and the people assigned to present it was properly prepared to answer the main questions.

Not sure how this is an obstacle. ANY city bidding for the games has to do this. Why do you see it as such a huge obstacle for Durban only?

I am not doubting Durban, I just don't know what they are planning.

You also don't know what Rome, Tokyo, or even possibly Madrid or Berlin are planning. Yet, somehow that "not knowing" only affects Durban? Biased much?

Fortunately for Durban they don't have to convince someone like you, who has never been there and probably couldn't find it on a map. They only have to convince 50% of the IOC - all who will have been to the city.

There is just one big problem with this story. The WC was a result of political maneuvering more than anything. Blatter and his crew organized everything for RSA to get the WC in 2006. In the last moment, though, an Oceania ExCom member did not cast his vote, giving the victory to Germany. To make sure that this wouldn't be repeated, FIFA created the continental rotation rule that lived only enough for it to pay its debt to the main operators of the 2006 vote (AFC and Conmebol/CBF).

Neither Brazil or RSA would be likely to be elected to host the WC if FIFA used the same approach as does the IOC, with continental rotation being just an unwritten rule and with a rather open bid process and a diverse electorate.

There's just one big problem with your interpretation: There are those who believe that one vote swung to Germany BECAUSE of political maneuvering. Hence the introduction of the rotational system: SA losing the vote in 2006 was a huge embarrassment to Blatter, and he wanted to take political maneuvering OUT of play in 2010.

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Not sure how this is an obstacle. ANY city bidding for the games has to do this. Why do you see it as such a huge obstacle for Durban only?

Well, I don't think you consider that cities from the developing world have to work harder to prove themselves capable than cities from the developed countries.

You also don't know what Rome, Tokyo, or even possibly Madrid or Berlin are planning. Yet, somehow that "not knowing" only affects Durban? Biased much?

Actually, for Tokyo and Madrid, they are probably going to present something very close to what was presented for 2016, which should ensure them a pass to the short list. Rome has made the cut not so long ago and has a lot of existing venues and a vast tourist infrastructure to support the event. Anyway, traffic will be an issue. Regarding Berlin, I don't know if they are planning to bid, but a German backed bid would also benefit from the credibility of the German organization, not mention all the infrastructure it holds.

Fortunately for Durban they don't have to convince someone like you, who has never been there and probably couldn't find it on a map. They only have to convince 50% of the IOC - all who will have been to the city.

I can point Durban pretty well in a map. Well enough to look for the birds eye view through Google Earth and look for sports arenas, available space, rail road lines and so on. By the way, the photos of Durban are quite recent, since they already feature the Moses Mabhida Stadium ready with the grass and all.

I also used something called Google to research their Transport Plan for the metro area and to understand how the city is distributed and where the people live and work. I have looked thoroughly for their main sports venues and it all turns out that they don't have much. I could only find the ICC Arena which takes part of the ICC complex, including the exhibition center. The airport capacity is very low (7 million) and it is not connected to the main international airports (only Doha has a direct flight).

I am not convinced for a very good reasons:

1. The city is well below the benchmark for hotel rooms.

2. The airport is smaller than all recent Olympic hosts.

3. I can see the vast open land in the Kings Park precinct and I do recognize the existing big stadia (Abbsa and Moses Mabhida), but I don't see where they are going to fit all the indoor sports and IBC/MPC, since there is only one Arena which is part of the main Convention Center of the city and does not have enough capacity to host either Artistic Gymnastics or Basketball. Are they going to build temporary venues? Normally this is not a problem because most of the recent Olympic hosts already had arenas and big convention centers.

4. Most of the residential areas seem to be made of houses, so I wonder how the legacy plan for an OV would be worked out. Are they going to sell the apartments? How are they going to build them? Besides, where the OV would be placed? For the plan to be really compact, the OV would also have to be built close to Kings Park.

5. If they are going to resort to the existing infrastructure and maybe temporary for their bid, what kind of legacy they are planning to pitch to the IOC?

There's just one big problem with your interpretation: There are those who believe that one vote swung to Germany BECAUSE of political maneuvering. Hence the introduction of the rotational system: SA losing the vote in 2006 was a huge embarrassment to Blatter, and he wanted to take political maneuvering OUT of play in 2010.

There was political maneuvering on all sides. The German did what they had to do to win. However, RSA finally got the WC only after FIFA ruled that 2010 would be in Africa, preventing bidders from other continents to present themselves. As a result of this policy, FIFA has awarded the WC with very low requirements in the bid phase and has put forward quite high requirements during the preparations. This is true both for RSA 2010 and for Brazil 2014.

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