cost explosion

[zenica]

IOC has to push reforms also like in other big sport organisations to reduce the program. This will force the competition between the bid cities and gives regions a chance also to have OG´s without bankruptcy at the end. This will be the only chance for these regions. Other option: in future the Games will be given to an elitistic circle of about 18 countries which are rich enough. This is not in the sense of Pierre de Coubertin.

[Sir Rols]

And, to the IOC's credit, that is what they are trying to do. Already, we have seen Rogge cap the number of sports at the Summer games and drop two team sports _ baseball and softball _ from 2012. It is one policy that I believe Rogge is very sincere in his efforts _ it just remains to see if he is strong enough a leader to see it through (maybe he's too young to have the power and influence needed to really succeed)

[Stu]

The problem is that Rogge's attempts to make movements to a smaller budget for Olympic Games are being rejected by other members of the IOC.  Perhaps it's vanity but the IOC has already shown that it doesn't want "cheap and cheerful" Olympic Games it wants the construction of gleaming new venues built specifically for the Olympics that will leave a greater legacy and prevent smaller, less glamorous cities from being able to afford to bid.  

Rogge is a much more amiable character than Samaranch, but he lacks the tight, close circle of colleagues within the IOC to arm-twist on his behalf - it is therefore far more difficult for him to achieve his goals on either Olympic cost cutting or the Olympic sports programme.  It wouldn't surprise me if there was a power struggle within the IOC resulting in Rogge only serving his present term - they have already proven that they don't have the respect they bestowed upon Samaranch by  (a) voting for a 2012 bid that basically ignored a lot of Rogge's opinions on a more affordable Games rather than one that tried to follow as much as it could and ( not replacing baseball and softball with any of the other sports offered for 2012.  Softball could even be reintroduced in the Turin conference - an even bigger and visible rejection of Rogge's authority.  

Perhaps there is also an issue with Rogge for the relatively strict constraints imposed upon IOC members during the bidding process, it's obvious that many of them benefited quite well under a far more relaxed leadership and maybe quite resent the the addition of controls.

Whatever is happening within the IOC hierarchy and what future direction they may take could possibly become clearer after the gathering in Turin - perhaps even the future of President Rogge himself.

[memorabilia]

SOCHI MINI BID BOOK

9 OLYMPIC WINTER GAMES BUDGET

Structure of Olympic Winter

Games Budget

The Sochi 2014 Olympic Winter Games

budget is based on an examination of past

Winter Games’ budgets as well as Russian

economic variables which affect the budget.

We have also conducted an analysis of the

private sector’s ability to provide support for

the OCOG budget.

The OCOG budget will be structured as follows:

• 25% Government/Public Funding

• 75% Private Funding

Government Financial Commitments

The Russian Federation, Krasnodar Krai (region) and Sochi

governments have already committed to meet all fi nancial

requirements for both OCOG and non-OCOG expenses

(including all necessary infrastructure), as expressly detailed

in the “Federal Target Programme for the Development

of Sochi” (see Question 18 for a full description of this

programme). All public and private fi nancial obligations are

delineated in the programme.

The federal government also commits to cover any

economic shortfall that should arise from the staging of

the Games.

Government Contributions

The federal, regional and city governments have also

committed to provide all assurances and guarantees

required by the IOC for the hosting and staging of

the Games. Specifi cally, the relevant authorities have

committed to provide all necessary services at no cost to

the OCOG. These services include but are not limited to:

• Security, Fire and Police services

• Customs and Immigration services

• Medical services

• Waste Management services

• Traffi c Management and Control services

The commitments also include the cost-free provision of all

publicly owned sports and non-sports venues to the OCOG

for the staging of the Games, either at no cost or at a rental

cost to be pre-approved by the IOC.

All of the above guarantees are provided.

[zenica]

Sochi 2014 is a good example where government takes 25% and private is 75%. The Games are on the wrong way when increasing costs without a limit. It´s like in middleage where aristocracy built up luxurous castles nobody needs.

When Rogge wants to stay as president he has to eliminate those IOC members which are not behind him and should replace them with the right people, for him. That´s the only way not to permanently get any rejections of his ideas. He needs his own team to successfully work for IOC. And to permanently reform the organisation. I hope Torino will be a start.

[skicross]

After the elections of Torino, Beijin, Vancuver and London, big cities with enormous budgets, maybe the IOC would prefer to choose a "smaller city" like Jaca and Zaragoza (650.000 residents) to reduce costs and to give back the Games to the mountains' heart.

[zenica]

Absolutely possible. For winter games a smaller city would fit. When looking into past some of the host cities were really "villages" (Albertville, Lillehammer etc)

[memorabilia]

Absolutely possible. For winter games a smaller city would fit. When looking into past some of the host cities were really "villages" (Albertville, Lillehammer etc)

Village !!!! ????

Albertville is 17000 inhabitants and Lillehammer 19000 ...

[zenica]

compared with London, Beijing etc these are "villages", sorry

[memorabilia]

Sochi 2014 is a good example where government takes 25% and private is 75%. The Games are on the wrong way when increasing costs without a limit. It´s like in middleage where aristocracy built up luxurous castles nobody needs.

When Rogge wants to stay as president he has to eliminate those IOC members which are not behind him and should replace them with the right people, for him. That´s the only way not to permanently get any rejections of his ideas. He needs his own team to successfully work for IOC. And to permanently reform the organisation. I hope Torino will be a start.

Yes this is an example of what a candidate city should not do ...

IOC like when the OCOG budget is 99% private. The 1% is for the Paralympic games.

The public found should go to the Capital investments (road, stadium, ...).

A high level of public money in an OCOG budget is a way to have a balance budget and to hide the deficit.....

[Stu]

compared with London, Beijing etc these are "villages", sorry

I think the Summer and Winter Games are different propositions.  It's not as necessary or as possible to have such important cities to host the Winter Games as it is the summer - although the recent trend for bigger/better hosts can be seen here too - Torino and Vancouver are examples of this, as is Salzburg if they are successful.  There is a far more limited choice of cities able to host the Winter Games though so smaller places are likely to be successful.

[zenica]

Size of the bid cities is not so important. IOC has to push reforms to reduce the costs for the bid cities

[Stu]

Although Rogge and the IOC have made claims to want a low cost Games we've seen little evidence of it in the choices of city that they've been making (Torino, Beijing, Vancouver, London), and with interest in holding the Olympics at its highest level for decades, and the quality of the cities and their bids - the Olympic organisation has never been so well placed, where is the incentive to change anything?

[zenica]

But when we are talking about Games in Africa or South America they have to reduce costs to make them affordable for those countries. If IOC want to give the "small" or non so rich countries a  realistic chance IOC has to do something. High-level is ok but other areas of this planet also want to host Games.

[Stu]

I agree that something will have to be done if less well-off countries are to host the Games - but why would the IOC really want a less well-off country to host?  They had enough problems with relatively wealthy Greece, I don't see them wanting to award the Olympics to any economies poorer than that.

If cities in Africa, Latin America or anywhere else want to host the Olympics the improvements have to come from them to move up to an Olympic standard city rather than the Olympics moving down to a level that a poorer city can afford - at the end of the day it's going to be expensive no matter what and perhaps a sports festival should not be their main priority.

[Guardian]

I agree that something will have to be done if less well-off countries are to host the Games - but why would the IOC really want a less well-off country to host?  They had enough problems with relatively wealthy Greece, I don't see them wanting to award the Olympics to any economies poorer than that.

If cities in Africa, Latin America or anywhere else want to host the Olympics the improvements have to come from them to move up to an Olympic standard city rather than the Olympics moving down to a level that a poorer city can afford - at the end of the day it's going to be expensive no matter what and perhaps a sports festival should not be their main priority.

Never mind that Vancouver 2010 may have started to have financial problems. I heard in the radio last night that there will be a press conference by VANOC about something, but one of them may be how OVER BUDGET the Games may end up. We haven't even got to see Torino 2006 in action yet.

[zenica]

As we can see also the rich countries have budget problems. But in general every country should have the theoretical chance to get the Games. If we only decide on financial issues, there will be an rotation only between Europe and North America, plus guests from time to time. It´s not in the sense of Olympics to give the Games only to the rich. IOC has to work on this very soon and set clear regulations for future.

[Stu]

Theoretically all countries can have a chance for the Games - all cities are welcome to apply to be included in the shortlist, it doesn't mean that Havana, San Juan or Bangkok stand any more chance of hosting in the immediate future.  Why would the IOC want to make life more difficult for themselves when they have a city like Paris or Tokyo or Madrid that doesn't need completely rebuilding within seven years so that its infrastructure can cope with the influx of people?  As I've said before, the most celebrated cities in the world are willing to pay huge amounts of money to create brand new glamorous venues, there is absolutely no incentive to change anything at the moment.  The emerging economies of Latin America, Africa and Asia may find that they have longer to wait, although the theoretical support is there the support in reality is not as the options of New York, Berlin, Rome, etc are far too attractive and far less of a gamble.

[zenica]

That´s what we have discussed earlier. The Games will go only to the rich, no middle-developed country has a chance. Looking at Vancouver where the costs only for the venues rise up by 23% to about 580 million $ instead of 470 million - and there is a long way (4 long years) until 2010. Who knows what will happen until 2010.

Experience shows (see Montreal or Torino) that this financial problems continue until the end and over the end of the Games. Most times govenments have to help out to prevent bankruptcy. This is the money of the people which is needed for more important projects. So where is the benefit for those cities/countries? That´s why reforms have to be pushed immediately to reduce costs. When continuing that way we very soon will reach the end. IOC will have then big problems. Some day the list of the rich candidates is also empty - The Games are dead.

[Guardian]

Never mind, zenica, that some of the Vancouver residents are allegedly starting to dissent "loudly" against hosting the 2010 Games. At least, after that press conference, one man is said to be reported to start taking action against VANOC because of this.

[zenica]

I expected this as this is the usual way. When lobbyists and officials do everything to get the Games, without thinking about possible problems in next future - this is result we see. Those people are very shortsighted - mostly they don´t have the "logistic" for a project of this size. That´s why I always say that several IOC members have to be replaced with people with a more clear mind.

[Guardian]

I expected this as this is the usual way. When lobbyists and officials do everything to get the Games, without thinking about possible problems in next future - this is result we see. Those people are very shortsighted - mostly they don´t have the "logistic" for a project of this size. That´s why I always say that several IOC members have to be replaced with people with a more clear mind.

And some people, in turn, use the NIMBY factor.

[zenica]

Sure, see Samaranch for Barcelona or Nebbiolo for Torino and so on.

[zenica]

I´m hoping for the IOC session in Torino that IOC start reform to reduce costs