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LuigiVercotti

Winners & Losers from Delhi 2010

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Switching the emphasis from farcical organisational issues, who has done well out of these CGs in the actual sports and who has dudded us?

Aside from the monolithic success of the Australian team as a whole I'm intrigued by the strong showing of South Africa (portents for an even better showing 4 years from now maybe, perhaps with a future CGs in the pipeline?) whereas NZ seems to have fallen behind. Canada's CG glory days are also looking a little like a dim memory...are Canucks disengaging from the games in favour of winter sports and their recent success at Vancouver?

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Switching the emphasis from farcical organisational issues, who has done well out of these CGs in the actual sports and who has dudded us?

Aside from the monolithic success of the Australian team as a whole I'm intrigued by the strong showing of South Africa (portents for an even better showing 4 years from now maybe, perhaps with a future CGs in the pipeline?) whereas NZ seems to have fallen behind. Canada's CG glory days are also looking a little like a dim memory...are Canucks disengaging from the games in favour of winter sports and their recent success at Vancouver?

Top athletes are missing in cycling, athletics, shooting, archery, and swimming. Oh and the big one gymnastics. If we had sent our top gymnastics team that would have accounted for a fair few more medals. Plus the competition schedule is certainly gerrymandered to favour India over Canada (no mountain biking, judo, triathlon and some of the para-sport events kinda suck for us). 34 medals in shooting is ridiculous. Mind you Canada`s top shooters have yet to compete.

75 is still a realistic target. But I definately think Canada should better its gold medal count from Melbourne. And remember Canada`s 118 medal performance in Manchester was followed by a disaster in Athens. And I think what matters more is that Canada will break the 20 medal mark in London. And I certainly see more medal opportunity for Canada than India in the next couple of days.

If you added an event that drastically favours Canada like there is for Australia or India (canoe/kayaking) than the medals would be more balanced. England is really the only nation competing that excels across the board without an event that they completely dominate.

In reality we have missed about 5 medals we really should have won (almost all of them in swimming) but have also won medals that were unlikely (like the 3 in greco-roman wrestling)

Also the vastly increased coverage the games are getting now compared to 4 years ago gives me hope that the COC will focus on the CWG in 2014 as a major training point and measuring stick leading to Rio.

Edited by Faster

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Top athletes are missing in cycling, athletics, shooting, archery, and swimming. Oh and the big one gymnastics. If we had sent our top gymnastics team that would have accounted for a fair few more medals. Plus the competition schedule is certainly gerrymandered to favour India over Canada (no mountain biking, judo, triathlon and some of the para-sport events kinda suck for us). 34 medals in shooting is ridiculous. Mind you Canada`s top shooters have yet to compete.

75 is still a realistic target. But I definately think Canada should better its gold medal count from Melbourne. And remember Canada`s 118 medal performance in Manchester was followed by a disaster in Athens. And I think what matters more is that Canada will break the 20 medal mark in London. And I certainly see more medal opportunity for Canada than India in the next couple of days.

If you added an event that drastically favours Canada like there is for Australia or India (canoe/kayaking) than the medals would be more balanced. England is really the only nation competing that excels across the board without an event that they completely dominate.

In reality we have missed about 5 medals we really should have won (almost all of them in swimming) but have also won medals that were unlikely (like the 3 in greco-roman wrestling)

Also the vastly increased coverage the games are getting now compared to 4 years ago gives me hope that the COC will focus on the CWG in 2014 as a major training point and measuring stick leading to Rio.

Which sport do you think that drastically favours Australia at these CGs? Potential candidates such as Hockey, Rugby and Netball are team sports with only 1 gold medal at the games. Gymnastics was a sport at the CGs which favoured Canada and England for some time at least in men's whilst swimming was for donkey's years a battle between Australia, Canada and England. Lawn Bowls may be the best candidate for your proposition but considering England, NZ, Malaysia and Scotland are all substantive powers in the sport as well then Australia has no singular bias in their favour.

Perhaps my memory of Edmonton 1978 colours my interpretation of Canada's CG success however it seems that somewhere along the way Canada's sporting bodies have put the CGs and many summer sports into the uninterested or too hard basket. Instead of waiting for a more favourable disposition of sports as you suggest increased interest in the current games may propel better programs for 2014/2016.

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Canada's top priority summer sports

Diving

Women's Wrestling

Rowing

Canoe/Kayak

Swimming

Athletics

Syncro Swimming

And those sports are 13 of Canada's 18 medals in Beijing.

Canada is starting to adopt a model where if there isn't promising athletes in the shoot there is no money going to the program. So since Beijing equestrian has gotten some focus, as has taekwondo. Its already starting to show in equestrian with two of the three events already securing their sports in London through the WEG instead of the Pan American Games.

Swimming - Australia 30, all other countries 42.

Cycling - 11 gold medals, 10 to Australia, 1 to Malaysia

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New Zealand’s cyclists are doing well when you consider team only won one 2 silver and 2 bronze in Melbourne, compeered to the 4 silvers and 3 bronze we’ve got so far in Delhi. Plus we have real gold medal chances in the women’s individual pursuit and the road time trial.

Edited by stevie

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NZ certainly seem to have a lock on being the silver medal champions at these games.

One nice and big win for the Aussies was Geoff Huegill. Having lost over 45 kilos after coming out of retirement to win a gold medal in the Delhi pool and do it in a CG record time is not a bad effort.

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Rols, to answer the question in what sport is Australia favoured in, cycling is the main one. GB have been dominating this one for a while. Yet, the majaority of GB stars have chosen to compete in other events. Not Australia's fault, but favouring them in a big way at the CGs. They basically have little competition...

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Rols, to answer the question in what sport is Australia favoured in, cycling is the main one. GB have been dominating this one for a while. Yet, the majaority of GB stars have chosen to compete in other events. Not Australia's fault, but favouring them in a big way at the CGs. They basically have little competition...

Yes, without the best of the English, Scottish and Welsh cyclists Australia has had it very much our own way. Having said that some of the cyclists who have won golds for Aus are still relatively young and can only get better for London...and as our team found out in the transition from 2004 in Athens to 2008 in Beijing four years is a long time in track cycling.

Question for our UK contributors; has the CGs been less successful than expected for the varying British contingents? The combo of high profile drop outs and illness seems to have dented the build up for London via Delhi (assuming these CGs were meant to be a major stepping stone towards the next SOGs).

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I think the fact that Australia will likely be denied 200+ medals and the English only being about 20 medals behind Australia is proof enough that the Brits are really playing well.

I have to say, so what if India finishes ahead of Canada. Canadian medals won in Beijing - 18, Indian medals won all-time - 18.

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Yeah, I gotta say, that is one thing that has dampened my enthusiasm for these games. When London was chosen for 2012, I was really anticipating that these were going to be a hot competitive Commies with some juicy rivalry between England and Australia, Cycling especially, with the UK primed to prove a point in the lead up to London (and especially after the UK's achievement at Athens) and top the table. A good, tough, competitive battle for top spot would have been a great boost. Still, don';t want to count chickens - it could still be close.

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If the games had been in the summer or late spring (April/May) I think more of the top athletes would have shown up. Its the end of the year there is injuries and those nagging problems you put off till the off-season that have prevent some from coming. Plus there is some important championships around this time too.

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Question:

In Melbourne Canada won 11 medals in swimming, only 1 gold though. (16 total but 5 where in Para and the para events have changed) So far Canada has won 7 medals but 3 gold. What is more successful?

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Plus the competition schedule is certainly gerrymandered to favour India over Canada (no mountain biking, judo, triathlon and some of the para-sport events kinda suck for us). 34 medals in shooting is ridiculous. Mind you Canada`s top shooters have yet to compete

There were 35 gold medals for shooting in 2006 (which India easily topped with 16 golds), and 35 this year. That they should do well again is hardly surprising. I fail to see what your point is, especially if you are trying to suggest India ramped up the number of events for its personal benefit.

Plus the competition schedule is certainly gerrymandered to favour India over Canada (no mountain biking, judo, triathlon and some of the para-sport events kinda suck for us). 34 medals in shooting is ridiculous. Mind you Canada`s top shooters have yet to compete

There were 35 gold medals for shooting in 2006 (which India easily topped with 16 golds), and 35 this year. That they should do well again is hardly surprising. I fail to see what your point is, especially if you are trying to suggest India ramped up the number of events for its personal benefit.

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And they didn't? Wrestling wasn't in Melbourne, it was in Delhi and India has won 15 medals. Archery wasn't in Melbourne, India has won 4 medals there. So India certainly added sports that they would benefit from. And 35 medals in shooting is ridiculous no matter who it favours. And the only reason that is the cause is because India is good at shooting and its there to keep India happy.

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And they didn't? Wrestling wasn't in Melbourne, it was in Delhi and India has won 15 medals. Archery wasn't in Melbourne, India has won 4 medals there. So India certainly added sports that they would benefit from. And 35 medals in shooting is ridiculous no matter who it favours. And the only reason that is the cause is because India is good at shooting and its there to keep India happy.

Actually one way in which India has in the past has been able to maximize their medal standing which wasn't available these games was the awarding of separate medals for the snatch, clean and jerk and then overall total in weightlifting (this potentially making a weightlifter a 3 time gold medallist with 6 lifts in total). This is of course not how they practice at the Olympics and surprisingly Delhi 2010 has come back to the single overall weight being the sole determinant of the medals.

As for shooting the success of the Indians has certainly been the result of their efforts in the sport, not purely because there is a huge number of medals on offer. In the past the Brits and Aussies were dominant in the sport at the CGs but now the baton has passed to the Indians. No if you want to argue that there are too many medals awarded in toto across a multitude of sports perhaps that's a fair point. However the shooting program has been in its current format since at least Melbourne so you can't throw that against the Indians as a bias for their athletes.

Wrestling and archery also have a tradition of being in the CGs so it's not as if Canadians have not had the opportunity to experience or build up for their participation in the Delhi Games. The hard cold reality of these games is that Canada has slipped in its ability to match up with the major competing nations in summer sports at the CGs.

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What I am saying is that:

a) India was certainly conscious of what sports they could add that they would benefit from

B) India was also certainly conscious of what sports to not consider due to a) them not being able to do well in the sport and B) how Canada would fair (think judo)

c) India's stated goal was to finish third, to do this they most certainly made sure they would not include sports that overly favoured Canada (within reason, I know those damn Scots have denied us two gold medals due to their schedule)

d) I have a problem with the number of medals in shooting no matter who it favours. I am sorry but shooting should not have almost the same standing as swimming and aquatics

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Well considering (unlike in the Olympics) that the amount of medals on offer in swimming is inflated by the addition of 50 metre events for the non-freestyle strokes (thus nominally giving Canadian swimmers as well as Australian and the various British competitors an advantage over Indian competitors when it comes to accruing gold silver or bronze) the supposed bias in favour of the Indians in shooting is at least balanced by swimming's available medals. Plus, having looked at the CG records going back to 1994 and Victoria where Canadian shooters won 8 gold medals in shooting at those games (out of 32 on offer) it's a bit rich to start talking about the Indians have included sports that don't favour Canadians. It's blatantly obvious that Canadian shooting has not been good enough in recent games.

Ultimately both Canada and to a lesser extent New Zealand have lost ground against the likes of Australia, England and India whilst South Africa and even Malaysia have also begun to make inroads into these two countries' medal hauls at the CGs. This obviously reflects the importance placed on the CGs in Canada and NZ (perhaps justifiably) when it comes to funding and sports. In fact if it was a choice between winning 80 gold at the CGs or say 10 at the OWGs I know where my priorities would be. One has to ask where is the same drive for success that was extremely evident back in 1978 and Edmonton contrasted with today?

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One has to ask where is the same drive for success that was extremely evident back in 1978 and Edmonton contrasted with today?

Ya, the Commonwealth games are definitively seen as a B (if not C) event by the Canadian public. And to be fair, the only sports that are really competitive at the CG are Swimming and Track Cycling (well, among the Olympics sports). I mean, in the women's high jump 1.93m was the lowest you had to jump to make the final at the 2008 Olympics, and it took 2.05m to win. Guess what it took to win the CG this year? 1.91m.

I'd much rather see Canada do well in the world championship that in the CG, to be honest.

Also just noticed something: 2/3 of the medals Canada won at the '08 Olympics where in events not at the CG.

Edited by fox334

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Saw the Kiwi Sky News earlier today and they were reporting on the flood of silvers being won by NZ at the games...any good/bad vibes to be cited from our Aotearoan members? Are New Zealanders happy with the results or not that concerned?

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Saw the Kiwi Sky News earlier today and they were reporting on the flood of silvers being won by NZ at the games...any good/bad vibes to be cited from our Aotearoan members? Are New Zealanders happy with the results or not that concerned?

Yes, is the point of view that the athletes Won the Silver vs. Lost the Gold? I guess to some extent, it depends on the specific performance. If an athlete went all out and did their personal best to the maximum of their capabilities, and the medal came up Silver, what's not to like?

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Saw the Kiwi Sky News earlier today and they were reporting on the flood of silvers being won by NZ at the games...any good/bad vibes to be cited from our Aotearoan members? Are New Zealanders happy with the results or not that concerned?

I don't think people are too fussed, it's quite funny really. Still it would be great if we could get the gold in sevens and the netball. To be honest I think Kiwis are more amped to see Samoa winning 3 golds so far, pretty awesome for them.

- Also the games have been over shadowed a bit by the local body elections and a few scandals in the media.

Edited by stevie

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I saw a poll on the stuff website yesterday and the majority of people said they thought the team had performed on par average, as opposed to the other options of amazing and awful.

I'd probably agree with that. The disappointing thing has been the lack of Gold medals, but in terms of total medals won - Im really happy to be honest. We are currently sitting on 7 fewer medals that we won in Melbourne - and we sent a larger team to those games (not to mention the fact that some of NZ's more powerful sports are not appearing in Delhi that have been there in the past - Basketball, Triathlon).

With 2 or so days to go I think we will probably get over that total of Melbourne - so Im quite satisfied with that effort.

I think the feeling is that people are quite impressed with the performances of the extremely young cycling and swimming teams too - especially in the post Sarah Ulmer/Greg Henderson era.

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Wow! I gotta say, a cracker of a night watching the games last night. I'm actually starting to be a bit sad that there's only two days to go now, just as I was starting to really get into them. Sigh!

Went to the pub for dinner last night, and the netball semi (Oz versus England) was on. Really tight, close match (well, the Poms were leading until well into the third period). Netball's not something I ever watch normally unless channel surfing (not that many people do, at least those I know, outside a games), but found myself gripped by it. And the whole crowd in the pub was getting right into it as well - cheering every point (I remember one couple walking in, and the girl asking "What's on? Oh, the Commonwealth Games! They're good, arent they!"). Just so great to watch it with an interestd and enthusiastic crowd.

Then home to watch the 7s - again, great matches, such a fun, fast moving sport. Pity we lost to NZ in the final, but great to make it there as well - and we put up a good fight to force NZ to come from behind. Magic!

Edited by Sir Rols
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At least you did good. Uganda got Raped 35-0 by Australia, then 55-0 by England, then took it to Sri Lanka 33-5. At least we took it to the home team (:

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Talk about a nailbiter for the Women's Hockey Final. I really though the Kiwis were gonna take us this time.

Sh!tty way for NZ to lose on a penalty shoot-out. But, hey, I'm happy with the end result.

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