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Are The Commonwealth Games No Longer Viable


LuigiVercotti

  

29 members have voted

  1. 1. Has Delhi 2010's problems killed your interest in the CGs

    • Yes
      10
    • No
      19
  2. 2. Can Glasgow 2014 save the CGs?

    • Yes
      22
    • No
      7
  3. 3. Do you see a long term future for the CGs?

    • Yes
      18
    • No
      11


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The Olympics survived Mexico City (probably the closest parallel to Delhi), Munich, Montreal, Moscow, Athens et al, and thrived. The commies have survived their own nadirs, in particular Edinburgh 86.

Most of what has been fuelling breathless coverage over the past month will be long forgotten by the time the bagpipers take over responsibilities in a few weeks.

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The Olympics survived Mexico City (probably the closest parallel to Delhi), Munich, Montreal, Moscow, Athens et al, and thrived. The commies have survived their own nadirs, in particular Edinburgh 86.

Most of what has been fuelling breathless coverage over the past month will be long forgotten by the time the bagpipers take over responsibilities in a few weeks.

Rols, comparing the Olympics with the Commonwealth Games is like comparing apples and oranges. The Olympics are seen as the pinnacle of major sporting festivals and they are coveted the globe over. And the IOC as an organisation has been able to manipulate the modern Olympic movement in such a way that it is now a hugely successful and financially viable conglomerate that rolls on with continuing attention through out the world not just every four years, but at worst on an annual basis.

The Commonwealth Games on the other hand are financially weak, they are limited in appeal, non-global and as shown by the disastrous preparations for the Delhi games a burden that most developing nations (who form the bulk of the Commonwealth) would struggle to justify holding or actually could be incapable of supporting. With the next games being in an Anglo country and the better than even chance the 2018 iteration will be down under where is the opportunity for the CGs to break out of the same old host nation cycles. It's a bit like rugby league, rugby union or cricket...there are the core nations who have demonstrable capabilities whereas the vast majority of nations outside this small club are either less capable, uninvolved or not associated with the games.

Plus throw in the growing shift in athletes being either unwilling or uninterested in actually attending the CGs...no athlete who could turn up at a SOGs would miss the opportunity if it was presented to them. On the other hand unless your in the same league as a lawn bowler from Guernsey or a shooter from the Cook Islands the CGs are going to be way down on your priorities.

And I wouldn't be surprised after the Delhi Games we won't see certain delegations/nations falling into one camp or the other, either excoriating the Indians and wanting the CGs to never go through such a debacle again, or vigorously demanding that because the games were held no matter the problems then the likes of Hambantota should be awarded the rights to continue to restore some perceived racial balance to the games. It's happened with the ICC and world cricket and it's possible to see similar conditions replicated in the CG movement.

What no doubt will be crucial will be the actual games in Delhi themselves and then the vote next year for 2018. Plus long term here's hoping a South African city or Singapore thinks about lodging a bid.

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:( In the current format, the games are just too big for what they are worth. Prehaps an eight year cycle for some of the more expensive sports?

Why we have to build massive new venues for a third tier event is beyond me. Mould them to fit the host city. It's time to get back to the CWGs essence, the friendly games...

Need to get a good 'Manchester' ballance, which I hope Glasgow and no doubt Gold Coast will provide.

:( Heres Hoping. :(

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:( In the current format, the games are just too big for what they are worth. Prehaps an eight year cycle for some of the more expensive sports?

Why we have to build massive new venues for a third tier event is beyond me. Mould them to fit the host city. It's time to get back to the CWGs essence, the friendly games...

Need to get a good 'Manchester' ballance, which I hope Glasgow and no doubt Gold Coast will provide.

:( Heres Hoping. :(

I like your thinking regarding the reuse of existing facilities Alex, however where Delhi has really fallen down is the organisational capability across the board. Considering that Delhi has been placed into the hosting role just as much as a reaction against the endless cycle of Anglo games their dismal performance in getting things ready for 2010 will lessen the desire to venture away from the likes of Australian/UK/Kiwi/Canuck host cities. And how many times can the CGs draw interest and support from repeatedly hitting up the likes of Cardiff, Adelaide, Christchurch, Hamilton etc etc in say the 2020s and beyond?

Must say though that whole friendly games vibe for the CGs seems to have dissipated in the rush to show off certain countries and cities. Methinks this started with KL and ballooned further since. Perhaps the Auckland or Victoria model is where the CGs need to go, with the likes of Durban, Singapore and maybe even Accra serving as 'new frontier' hosts

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The CWG Fed is trying to host a major event, yes, its major, by applying fewer resources than hosting a world champs in one sport.

As has been established in other threads it's not so much the CGF that is trying to do the hosting with smaller resources its trying to administer the organisational infrastructure and oversee the development of a host city's facilities and venues that is part of the problem. Considering the budget blow out in Delhi money has not been the problem, nor has the bureaucratic effort from the state and national government. If anything the flood of cash and decision makers has led to a confusing and maze like drain of funds with little cohesion.

Now if the CGF can't take a stronger leadership or oversight role in the hosting of forthcoming games then they will need to rely time and time again on the efficiency of the host's OC. In Glasgow and possibly in the Gold Coast that can be expected to deliver much like the model for Melbourne, Manchester and KL in the past. Problem is the CGF can't keep hawking it's diminished product around the same cities and countries without becoming more and more anachronistic and irrelevant.

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As has been established in other threads it's not so much the CGF that is trying to do the hosting with smaller resources its trying to administer the organisational infrastructure and oversee the development of a host city's facilities and venues that is part of the problem. Considering the budget blow out in Delhi money has not been the problem, nor has the bureaucratic effort from the state and national government. If anything the flood of cash and decision makers has led to a confusing and maze like drain of funds with little cohesion.

Now if the CGF can't take a stronger leadership or oversight role in the hosting of forthcoming games then they will need to rely time and time again on the efficiency of the host's OC. In Glasgow and possibly in the Gold Coast that can be expected to deliver much like the model for Melbourne, Manchester and KL in the past. Problem is the CGF can't keep hawking it's diminished product around the same cities and countries without becoming more and more anachronistic and irrelevant.

By resources I meant people, bodies,expertise. It doesn't seem to have the sort of oversight team or setup that matches the scale of the event, even for a developed country.

Why do we have to hear things from Hooper like "I've been alone here for 3 years" but I take zero responsibility for anything.

No wonder Kalmadi wanted him out of the country.

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By resources I meant people, bodies,expertise. It doesn't seem to have the sort of oversight team or setup that matches the scale of the event, even for a developed country.

Why do we have to hear things from Hooper like "I've been alone here for 3 years" but I take zero responsibility for anything.

No wonder Kalmadi wanted him out of the country.

Mo, Kalmadi wanted Hooper and any trace of the CGF away from his feudal chaotic committee to make sure they could get away with even more delays, more botched jobs, more intransigence and more obfuscation. And I suspect that Hooper's comments are a simple cri de couer from a man who has been unsupported by the people who have been promising and promising time and time again to do the right thing and haven't.

And the CGF model had worked in developed countries...since Edinburgh 1970 there have been nowhere near the amount of fiscal extravagence, undelivered or delayed venues, dozens of deaths in the construction of venues etc etc. These games have been blighted in a way that is irrevocably linked to the Indian organisation of their development and implementation, not by the CGF being understaffed or without the structures that an IOC or FIFA could apply.

If the CGF needs some kind of institutional revision that improves their capability to oversee games organisation for Glasgow and perhaps the Gold Coast (or god forbid Hambantota) then I'm all for it as would many lay people. However the problem is that once you have a weak organisation with a marginal product trying to restrict the implementation of their product you will either get a decline in interest or an abasement of the original proposition. The simple answer is to avoid the Delhis and the Abujas of this world...

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I'm the last person to defend Kalmadi, its just the attitude of Hooper I've been picking up on watching India News.

For a developing country bid perhaps they have been understaffed. I'm not suggesting an IOC version in terms of staff or amount of staff at all but I do feel they need to take some of the responsibility, even if its 2%. We all know why many of the messes have occurred, and its not Hooper who created the lack of planning between the 19 disjoint authorities delivering the venues, but if there duty was oversight, they have failed.

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I'm the last person to defend Kalmadi, its just the attitude of Hooper I've been picking up on watching India News.

For a developing country bid perhaps they have been understaffed. I'm not suggesting an IOC version in terms of staff or amount of staff at all but I do feel they need to take some of the responsibility, even if its 2%. We all know why many of the messes have occurred, and its not Hooper who created the lack of planning between the 19 disjoint authorities delivering the venues, but if there duty was oversight, they have failed.

Fair enough. Which then prompts the questions can the CGF become a body with enough power to actually develop and implement a meaningful oversight or coordination body for future games (which I don't believe it can) and either with or without these instrumentalities can the CGF continue to cycle through the same countries or risk another developing nation and host city.

So...how about Durban, Jo'burg, CT or PE 2022? Mo, this is where South Africa could really stand up and deliver something meaningful and productive on the path to an SOGs via an assist with the CGF...

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I don't see South Africa going from World Cup to Commonwealth Games. Its also probably not worth the effort going for the Commies first, which are quite a large event too.

PE won't be hosting anything anytime soon.

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I don't see South Africa going from World Cup to Commonwealth Games. Its also probably not worth the effort going for the Commies first, which are quite a large event too.

PE won't be hosting anything anytime soon.

So if SA has no interest in a CGs bid for at least the next two or three cycles where does that place the long term future of the games? Returning to Canada? NZ? Wales? Or looking at another non-Anglo option like Nairobi, Abuja, Accra, Kingston, Kandy etc etc Considering all those African, Asian or Carribean potential hosts could have similar problems if not catastrophic drawbacks akin to Delhi's therein lies a big problem for the CGF. How do you keep shopping the same diminished games around a constricted circle of capable hosts that may be considered political anathema to the majority of the Commonwealth which are developing countries.

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But it's not fair to judge Asians, Africans and Caribbeans based on what's happening in Delhi. We can't exactly predict who will fail. Chaos is quite a cultural value in India if you take the transit of some cities as a reference. And India is such a peculiar country on it own it's almost impossible to compare it with anybody else.

I'm not posting this to prove anyone right or wrong. Just to make sure no one besides India and CGF take the blame and the punishment of the troubles in Delhi.

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But it's not fair to judge Asians, Africans and Caribbeans based on what's happening in Delhi. We can't exactly predict who will fail. Chaos is quite a cultural value in India if you take the transit of some cities as a reference. And India is such a peculiar country on it own it's almost impossible to compare it with anybody else.

I'm not posting this to prove anyone right or wrong. Just to make sure no one besides India and CGF take the blame and the punishment of the troubles in Delhi.

I concur in terms of not wishing to propagate stereotypes but let's be realistic. India's Delhi games was and is seen by many both within and without the CG context as a huge market with untapped potential and a passion to deliver an excellent games as part of a national surge. These were undoubtedly interests and key parts of the appeal to the CGF when the vote was taken in 2003. And in the case of so many of the non Anglo potential future hosts they would be trading on similar principles if not exactly the same when looking to get up for say a 2022 Abuja or 2026 Port of Spain. They won't be able to demonstrate organisational capabilities similar to a Gold Coast, Glasgow, Melbourne or Manchester which are all within the framework of countries and societies that have the runs on the board in terms of delivering a CGs. And the membership when they vote will be so bruised from Delhi anything that smacks of a similar ilk to the chaotic nature of a developing world games will probably be avoided at all costs. The CGF is caught between a rock and a hard place; stay within the stultifying cycle of the traditional powers of the Commonwealth or risk expanding to hosts that share so many of the attributes of Delhi's bumbling preparations. And most likely on the same if not less resources that are in place now.

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But it's not fair to judge Asians, Africans and Caribbeans based on what's happening in Delhi. We can't exactly predict who will fail. Chaos is quite a cultural value in India if you take the transit of some cities as a reference. And India is such a peculiar country on it own it's almost impossible to compare it with anybody else.

I'm not posting this to prove anyone right or wrong. Just to make sure no one besides India and CGF take the blame and the punishment of the troubles in Delhi.

Whether fair or not those are the facts - for now the CWG can not take the risk, and there needs to be big changes within the CWG Federation to enable such countries to host the games again.

And people have to remember the games come first - as risking another Delhi might mean long term there are no games for such cities to host.

Now, I might be wrong here but I believe the IOC has much closer links to events like the Asian Games. Is it possible now that the CWG Fed is simply too small to survive on a world stage and could actually benefit from closer links with the IOC? (Obviously corruption is never an issue with the IOC! :rolleyes:)

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Whether fair or not those are the facts - for now the CWG can not take the risk, and there needs to be big changes within the CWG Federation to enable such countries to host the games again.

That's exactly the thing: it is unfair because that's not facts, but very early assumptions based on a general idea of a "disorganized yet predictable third world pattern" of hosting that doesn't make sense.

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That's exactly the thing: it is unfair because that's not facts, but very early assumptions based on a general idea of a "disorganized yet predictable third world pattern" of hosting that doesn't make sense.

Fairness has never ever had a role in selecting a host for a major multi-discipline sporting festival. And in the Commonwealth India was and is the leading underdeveloped country with any pretensions to having the ability to host the CWGs, and they have stuffed up their opportunity big time.

Of course we could all be politically correct and sensitive to the developing world but guess what...in the CG context you can't risk a potentially dying concept of a sports festival being awarded to locations such as Abuja, Dhaka, Karachi, Nairobi, Harare, Dodoma or Windhoek. None of the developing countries in the Commonwealth have the sporting, political, economic, organisational or security structures in place to do justice to the CGs.

However if you want to see the CGs wiped out as a quadrennial festival sure...let's take them to Lahore where there is an insidious Islamic extremist terrorist movement which has been responsible for suicide bombings and attacks against foreign interests. Or put them on in Kampala where the Ugandans have been battling the Lords Army, a very nasty militia that has all the attributes of a cult and uses rape and child soldiers as their weapons of fear. The CGF could always think about Port Moresby, capital of Papua New Guinea (where the local government has been sustained by Australian aid since independence in 1975 and there have been security problems with rascal gangs and potential issues with tropical diseases and inadequate infrastructure).

Victor, I understand that as a Brazilian you have a vested and passionate interest in seeing countries such as yours be given a better and more equitable deal in hosting major sporting events. For the IOC Rio was a choice they could afford to make. And FIFA was to be congratulated in working with South Africa to bring in a very good World Cup. But the Commonwealth Games have limited appeal in a group of nations with limited capabilities and India's botched effort in hosting Delhi 2010 will undoubtedly end any viable hopes of successful CGs going to even smaller and less developed nations in this relic of the British empire.

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The CWG IMO should;

before any of the below, secure Gold Coast as 2018 host.

1. Re-brand by hiring a branding company

2. Establish a formal Games commission

3. Market the event by doing a road-show on the bid process

4. Then open the 2022 and 2026 bidding simultaneously, by mentioning a preference for candidates with little work to do e.g. Toronto and opening 2026 to a "new frontier" which may have more work to do.

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That's exactly the thing: it is unfair because that's not facts, but very early assumptions based on a general idea of a "disorganized yet predictable third world pattern" of hosting that doesn't make sense.

It's nothing to do with the "third world" though. After Atlanta many people had similar feelings about America hosting the Summer Olympics again in the near future. These things happen and organisers have to move on and learn the lessons from them - it would be stupid just to take the attitude that these things won't happen again - or should the games turn out ultimately to be deemed a success write off all the problems to history.

In some ways Delhi hid behind the legacy from Athens - they weren't ready, but let the CWG Fed take the view that Athens turned it round, so Delhi probably will too.

Fairness has never ever had a role in selecting a host for a major multi-discipline sporting festival. And in the Commonwealth India was and is the leading underdeveloped country with any pretensions to having the ability to host the CWGs, and they have stuffed up their opportunity big time.

Of course we could all be politically correct and sensitive to the developing world but guess what...in the CG context you can't risk a potentially dying concept of a sports festival being awarded to locations such as Abuja, Dhaka, Karachi, Nairobi, Harare, Dodoma or Windhoek. None of the developing countries in the Commonwealth have the sporting, political, economic, organisational or security structures in place to do justice to the CGs.

Victor, I understand that as a Brazilian you have a vested and passionate interest in seeing countries such as yours be given a better and more equitable deal in hosting major sporting events. For the IOC Rio was a choice they could afford to make. And FIFA was to be congratulated in working with South Africa to bring in a very good World Cup. But the Commonwealth Games have limited appeal in a group of nations with limited capabilities and India's botched effort in hosting Delhi 2010 will undoubtedly end any viable hopes of successful CGs going to even smaller and less developed nations in this relic of the British empire.

I'm not quite sure who decides this, but is there a "second world"? South Africa and Brazil IMO are clearly one step above the likes of India and many other Commonwealth countries at least in terms of having a proven ability to host such international events. I certainly have nothing like the concerns for Rio as I had about Delhi, and also I'm sure any South African bid for either Commonwealth or Olympic games would be a safer bet than a bid from elsewhere in Africa.

Mo Rush - rebrands benefit nobody other than the folks dishing out the marketing spiel, but a root and branch review of the CWG Fed is certainly required. And I agree with you about making the next bidding round be for for 2022 and 2026 concurrently. Hopefully this would attract around 5 prospective hosts, and I'm sure it'll be easier to find 2 hosts out of 5 than 1 host out of 2 or 3 as most bidding processes seem to be - plus doubling the chances of winning the games will hopefully attract the bigger cities.

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:mellow: I believe that a double bidding should take place. It's probibly too late to latch on the 2022 bid to next year's 2018 sign off, but why not have an extra ordinary bid in 2013 for '22. Then the CGF can wait till 2019 to decide '26 and '30. This would really help those cities we all talk about hosting, especially african cities.

It also makes for good foward planning in what will be the Post Elizabethan Era, and we have to get real about that. There is a very good chance that the Commonwealth as we know it will probibly break up further.

It's unfair to blame KL98 for oneupmanship, they were the first games to have team sports en-mass stepping into the unknown. Manchester seemed to get it right, but IMO Melbourne was over the top using quasi-olympic venues, and thats probibly what gave India a false expectation. The booby trap seems to be in transport infrastructure and accomodation. (why these hosts attempt build a stack of 5 star towers...) As I mentioned earlier, fit them to suit, Glasgow has a good idea of it and Gold Coast will probibly have a 'Manchester' ballance. Most cities and countries could afford those.

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Perhaps the CWG fed do need a "bigger is better" approach to survive. What if the Delhi Games publicity sees more cities vying for 2022.

IMO if the CWG Fed gets two decent 2022 bids unlike 2018, with only one, it should give first place the 2022 Games and second plan the 2026 Games. Makes an executive board decision if you have to.

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Perhaps the CWG fed do need a "bigger is better" approach to survive. What if the Delhi Games publicity sees more cities vying for 2022.

IMO if the CWG Fed gets two decent 2022 bids unlike 2018, with only one, it should give first place the 2022 Games and second plan the 2026 Games. Makes an executive board decision if you have to.

If anything the Commonwealth Games do not need to go bigger is better. That will further isolate them from the reality of host capabilities within the Commonwealth, draw even more spotlight on their inferior status contrasted with the Olympics, the various world championships, the Asiad and Pan Ams, and ultimately kill off the concept quicker than you can say 'Kalmadi you idiot'.

Without having a clear solution certainly the biggest strength of these games have been the traditional roles of giving a more relaxed and communal environment within the context of smaller states doing far better at the games (when's the last time Botswanans, Manx or Naurean athletes have won gold at the SOGs or world champs?), plus highlighting young talent emerging from the major players (e.g. Thorpe and Hackett in KL). Throw in the rivalries between England Vs Australia, Scotland Vs England, Australia Vs NZ etc and the importance accorded sports such as netball and lawn bowls then there are the core values of the CGs. These are where the CGF need to focus on first, then stop trying to turn them either through their own commission or that of the host city's OC into an Olympic sized bun fest.

As for projecting out as far as 2022/2026 we first off have to assume that Australia, any of the UK cities, India and Malaysia will be out of the running (as they have all hosted and have or will be looking at major sports bids that will be factored into the long term plans of the relevant sporting and governmental bodies). That leaves Canada, NZ, South Africa and perhaps Singapore. Sri Lanka may try again after Hambantota gets knocked off by the Gold Coast for 2018 but that'll be a fairly risible bid. Mo, you have already said that South Africa would be highly unlikely to bid plus the quest for the first African SOGs will muddy the waters for either a 2022 or 2026 games. Hamilton might want to put its hand up again for Canada but why would they after being so shabbily treated by the CGF in 2003. Therefore the options get skinnier and skinnier.

So all up if I was in the threadbare offices of the CGF I'd be looking into the long term planner and cursing the Indians for fecking things up so extravagantly.

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A short , light hearted opinion piece from the New Zealand Herald in regards to the relevance of the Coms in todays society.

Games have tradition, but mostly bloody good fun

By Dylan Cleaver 5:30 AM Saturday Sep 25, 2010 Share Email

Print

Colored lights at Jawaharlal Nehru Stadium. Photo / APIt can't be great walking into a room to find a dog has vacated its bowels in the corner, to see wiring protruding from sockets and rusty nails and construction detritus left in piles.

But to suggest those nails should be used to bang the lid shut on the Commonwealth Games' coffin is a (collapsed) bridge too far.

The Commonwealth Games are an anachronism. They could be seen as a bit of puff and pageantry from the good old days when the sun never set on the Union Jack.

Then the Empire changed to a Commonwealth, the Brits looked across the Channel to Europe for companionship and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone under the age of 40 who has heard of the Singapore Declaration, let alone what it provides the framework for.

But who cares?

The idea that we should abandon the Commonwealth and align our sporting interests with Asia suggests that the Games are some sort of geo-political football.

Article continues below

The Commonwealth Games have a history and tradition of their own that has outlived the imperial age. Most of all, they're bloody great fun.

For two weeks every four years, a bunch of disparate nations that speak the same language and once had a monarch in common get together to hurl stones, shoot targets, run around a track and generally have a whale of a time.

It no longer sits at the top table of sporting events - it never really did - but if you recalibrate your expectations in line with its diminishing importance, you'll still have a blast following it.

The beauty of sport is competition and the Commonwealth Games provide it in spades: rugby fans might like the NPC less than Super rugby because quality is lower, but we still like it. The Commonwealth Games' legacies may carry less gravitas than those left by the Olympics, but the images remain indelible.

Richard Tayler's limbs-akimbo celebration around QEII Park; Walker and Bayi's battle in the sun at the same Games; Graham May resembling a toppling kauri; Snell's supremacy in Perth; Sylvia Potts tripping a few metres short of gold in Edinburgh.

Remember Craig Barrett's knock-kneed demise in Kuala Lumpur, or the smiles of 14-year-old golden girl Nikki Jenkins or 52-year-old silver medallist Millie Khan at the 1990 Games?

For many of those athletes, the Commonwealth Games represented the pinnacle of their careers. That might not have Coca-Cola and Kodak queuing to buy the rights like they have for the Olympics - good.

In the immortal words of Steve Allen, let's "Join Together, let laughter fill the air ..."

Even if we're not entirely sure what we're joining together for.

I really do think the Gold Coast will continue the work of Glasgow and deliver a template of sorts which will hopefully return the Games as a more accessible entity to more nations of the Commonwealth. It will always be an event that is out of reach for many, but it certainly still has the potential to grab the bidding attention of more than just 3 or 4 nations - which it is now in danger of doing (and pretty much has done).

The template was floated in Wellington's bid for 2006, there was a stark contrast there between the Capital and Melbourne. But I think that perhaps forward way of thinking is now finding alot more friends.

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