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Unclear/withdrawn past bids


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I have some questions in the engl. wikipedia it is said that New York bid for 1984 - I never heard about this before and I don't really believe that - does anybody have more information, which prove that?

I have a source which mentions that New York bid for 1904 - does anybody know about this, too?

wikipedia - Bids for Olympic Games

Furthermore are there any other withdrawn bids for summer olympics (except Berlin 1912) like Bern 2010 and/or Vancouver 1980 for winter olympics?

By the way there is a fault on the engl. Wikipedia, since it isn't possible that London 1908 was chosen at the 6th IOC session in London in 1904, since Rome was selected first and the Games were given back after the volcano eruptions of the Vesuv, which happened in April 1906 - does anybody has a good source about what happened/had been decided on the past IOC-sessions?

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For some reason I actually do have some memories of the NY bid for 1984. It's not like i was following bidding at the time (I must've been about 14) but I do have vague memories of a news report that LA had beaten NY for the right to host - maybe my interest was piqued by Montreal, it was certainly by then I was already collecting books and histories on the games. Anyway, Wikipedia has this to say on the matter in its piece on the LA 84 games:

Following the news of the massive financial losses of the 1976 Summer Olympics in Montreal, Quebec, Canada, only Los Angeles and New York City expressed serious interest in hosting the 1984 games. Given only one city per country is allowed to bid for any Games, the USOC vote for an American bid city was essentially the deciding vote for the 1984 Olympics host city. In this case, Los Angeles's bid won by a vote of 55 to 39. New York City's 1984 bid fell just 9 votes shy of winning the Games and is the closest the city has ever come to becoming a host city for the Olympics, even NYC2012.

The 1904 from my readings wasn't as much a bid, more that old De Coubertin, when he originally stated his desire for the games to go to the US in 1904, was more expecting New York to do it. But, of course, it was Chicago that was eventually decided on, before the political arm-twisting and pork barrelling in the US got the IOC to approve the switch to St Louis.

And you're right about the London/Rome timing. According to "Athens To Athens", because no real IOC session took place at St Louis (it seems only two European members even made the trip), the voting was held at Mansion House, London, in 1904 and elected Rome. By the interim Games in Athens 1906, it was clear it had to drop out, and it was there that the IOC invited Britain to step into the breach.

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Actully, it this is so funny, cuz the other day I came across an article about Los Angeles & their persistent pursuit about trying to get the Olympics. And in that article, it stated when applying for the 1984 Olympic Games to the USOC to be their candidate, they in fact had competition from 5 other U.S. cities & yes, New York was one of them.

I read in the article that the USOC vote between New York & Los Angeles was 55 to 39. ANd what was even more surprising, were the other 4 U.S. cities that were also initially interested but later withdrew their case. They were Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta & New Orleans. I was gonna post the article here, but never got around to it. I'll see if I can find it again & post it.

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Furthermore are there any other withdrawn bids for summer olympics (except Berlin 1912) like Bern 2010 and/or Vancouver 1980 for winter olympics?

Sleuth around enough (and this thread's a good pl;ace for us to pool our resources and own researches) and I'm sure I'm sure we could find plenty - like the Berlin 1968 bid that was mooted by Daume and Willi Brandt and was mentioned by a German historian just last week. Or the Teheran 1984 bid (that'd be one I'd love to know more about - how far it got etc). And depending on which lists and tables of bids one looks at, there's lots of weird and wonderful and tantalising mentions of bids from the likes of Alexandria and Karachi and others over the decades.

These days, I guess, since the applicant and candidate stages and greater interest and following of these things, it's a bit better documented and I guess we all more count bids as such only when they're more formal.

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It was actually a website about the Los Angeles Games & their quest for them.

http://www.la84foundation.org/20thAnniversary.pdf

And one of the other 4 cities was Boston, not Philadelphia.

The article's from the LA Foundation's 20th Anniversary Report of how it has done all these years. It's a rather lavish publication.

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Well aside from the holy trinity of non-finalized bids for 2000 (Tashkent, Miland, Brasilia) I've always been intrigued by the potential for the 1896 games to have been run in Budapest and not Athens. I've reviewed my personal library and the best reference I've found to it was in Mandell's "The Nazi Olympics" (p.22, Uni of Illinois Press 1987), however further net research has thrown up this reference:

During his first year at the Ministry of Culture Kemény already mentioned that joining the Olympic movement was a

good opportunity for propaganda concerning the thousand-year-old Hungarian nation and the idea of having the

Olympic Games in Hungary was also suggested. And since there were problems in Athens concerning organisation,

Coubertin suggested the idea of having the Olympic Games in Budapest in his letter written to Kemény in

November, 1894. Kemény recommended his earlier patron Albin Csáky, the previous Minister of Culture, as the

president of the organising committee. Csáky seriously considered the idea but resigned from his cultural ministership in the summer

of 1894. Thus Kemény had to turn to the new Minister of Culture, the famous physician, Loránd Eötvös in

December 1894 who, following his advisors’ view, turned down the proposal. The argumentation was that if the

Greek nation with such a tra dition in sports hesitated in the matter, the Hungarians should not take part in such a

risky business, which by the way, was a costly one. Kemény received the written refusal only as late as April 1895,

signed by the new minister, Gyula Wlassics

Source

Christopher Hill also raises the issue of Budapest as being a Coubertin-inspired back-up for Athens if the 1896 organising committee couldn't get their act together (shades of Brundage and Melbourne).

The interesting what-if about this all is would a Budapest games have had as much historical and sporting cachet as the Athens 1896 Olympics did, or if Athens hadn't got its act together could the IOC and modern Olympism survived such an early blow...

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Interesting to read that the 1st Olympic Games in Athens ran into organizational problems (ala Athens 2004), whereas a possible move of venue could be in order. What is it with the Greeks. :blink:

Well, at least they had all those fraternities, sororities and honor societies named after them. Can you imagine if they were named after the Chinese or Mongolian alphabets? :blink:

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These days, I guess, since the applicant and candidate stages and greater interest and following of these things, it's a bit better documented and I guess we all more count bids as such only when they're more formal.

... absolutely, but I think nowadays you should "count" cities as biding cities when the National Olympic Committee placed a bid with this city at the International Olympic Committee - that means that neither Berlin bid for 1968 nor New York for 1984, since neither the German National Committee bid nor the United States National Committe placed a bid officially in 1968/1984. This is comparable with Tromsoe for 2018...

The 1904 from my readings wasn't as much a bid, more that old De Coubertin, when he originally stated his desire for the games to go to the US in 1904, was more expecting New York to do it. But, of course, it was Chicago that was eventually decided on, before the political arm-twisting and pork barrelling in the US got the IOC to approve the switch to St Louis.

And you're right about the London/Rome timing. According to "Athens To Athens", because no real IOC session took place at St Louis (it seems only two European members even made the trip), the voting was held at Mansion House, London, in 1904 and elected Rome. By the interim Games in Athens 1906, it was clear it had to drop out, and it was there that the IOC invited Britain to step into the breach.

I did the article about the bids on the german wikipedia and I think that I solved this "1908 problem" better: wikipedia - Bewerbungen für Olympische Sommerspiele

Actully, it this is so funny, cuz the other day I came across an article about Los Angeles & their persistent pursuit about trying to get the Olympics. And in that article, it stated when applying for the 1984 Olympic Games to the USOC to be their candidate, they in fact had competition from 5 other U.S. cities & yes, New York was one of them.

I read in the article that the USOC vote between New York & Los Angeles was 55 to 39. ANd what was even more surprising, were the other 4 U.S. cities that were also initially interested but later withdrew their case. They were Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta & New Orleans. I was gonna post the article here, but never got around to it. I'll see if I can find it again & post it.

Sleuth around enough (and this thread's a good pl;ace for us to pool our resources and own researches) and I'm sure I'm sure we could find plenty - like the Berlin 1968 bid that was mooted by Daume and Willi Brandt and was mentioned by a German historian just last week. Or the Teheran 1984 bid (that'd be one I'd love to know more about - how far it got etc). And depending on which lists and tables of bids one looks at, there's lots of weird and wonderful and tantalising mentions of bids from the likes of Alexandria and Karachi and others over the decades.

maybe you should add another column in the articles on wikipedia of not finalised candidate/application cities like Tromsoe 2018, Teheran 1984, (Chicago, Atlanta & New Orleans Boston 1984) etc. etc.

I just wonder about the time until the 70s - I mean it is interesting how many e.g. US-cities are mentioned as candidate cities in the 60s, which might be comparable with the 84 situation - I mean maybe we should start to collect more information about the biding past - I really wonder if the protocols of the IOC sessions are available somewhere, in which the candidate cities are mentioned...

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... absolutely, but I think nowadays you should "count" cities as biding cities when the National Olympic Committee placed a bid with this city at the International Olympic Committee - that means that neither Berlin bid for 1968 nor New York for 1984, since neither the German National Committee bid nor the United States National Committe placed a bid officially in 1968/1984. This is comparable with Tromsoe for 2018...

In Berlin's case I;d probably agree. It had NOC support, but didn't really make it through to application when the 4-Powers vetoed it.

NY '84 though DID make it to an NOC vote, and would have gone on if chosen. I;d count that as bit more "official" (and at least more "official" than Teheran, which is often mentioned in the context of the '84 race).

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In Berlin's case I;d probably agree. It had NOC support, but didn't really make it through to application when the 4-Powers vetoed it.

NY '84 though DID make it to an NOC vote, and would have gone on if chosen. I;d count that as bit more "official" (and at least more "official" than Teheran, which is often mentioned in the context of the '84 race).

How do you esteem Venice's bid for 2020 or Hamburg,Frankfurt,Stuttgart,Düsseldorfs' bids for 2012?

Would you think that such national elections should be included on the wikipedia site about the Olympic Bids?

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How do you esteem Venice's bid for 2020 or Hamburg,Frankfurt,Stuttgart,Düsseldorfs' bids for 2012?

Would you think that such national elections should be included on the wikipedia site about the Olympic Bids?

I think in those cases, why not? They were all formal domestic bids, had detailed plans and got to the stage where they were being marketed ahead of a vote. And in some cases, with the 1984 race probably the best example of this, the domestic race can often be a de-facto main race. The US domestic races, in particular, are often as interesting, competitive and involved as the main IOC race. And South Africa's current domestic campaign, again, is probably of the biggest interest in the 2020 race so far.

I suppose it's up to someone keen who is on the Wikipedia contributing and editing roster (hint ;) ) whether to start getting more details of domestic campaigns in there.

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I agree. I think ANY bid that makes it to a NOC face-off should be considered.

LIke the German race for 2012 including Hamburg, Stuttgart, etc & the Italian race for 2020 including Venice, Bari, etc. As well as te U.S. races like 2012 & 2016 where you had cities like Houston, Washington D.C., San Francisco, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, Cincinnati, etc.

It's the "bids" that DON'T make it to their NOC, like Tulsa, Birmingham-AL, Pittsburgh, Hobart, Fukuoka, etc, etc, that don't really belong in the list of contenders. But it sure is hysterical reading about their delusions. :lol:

Heck, some people don't even include the bids that don't make it past the short-list phase, but we here at Gamesbids do.

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