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danfla
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Well, they were, at least from my point of view and many others on this board and out there. Besides Maracana which was ready for the event because of the WC, there were many delays on the construction of the rest of the venues, specially at the Velodrome (many of them caused by workers strikes, on a similar fashion to Montreal and Athens), water pollution, last minute details which were hard to miss (such as the bad setting of the Look of the Games).  

Yeah, the actual games were actually decent and I myself enjoyed watching them as there weren't so much problems as feared (the Zika thing was exagerated tbh), but this still doesn't changes the fact many in both Brazil and the IOC were yanking their hairs at all the problems before the games, and that the post-games times have quickly became one of the worst if not the worst in a long time.  

South Korea political situation at the moment is far from good, with an impeached president who abused of power/nepotism/whitewashing the image of her father. But the difference is the economic situation is far from worse as Brazil's which experienced the second worst economic fallout in the region, only surpassed by my country. 

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Yeah, but "high mess" is a total exaggeration. All the venues were finished on time - some cutting it very close and missing optimistic deadlines, but not something that was exclusive to Brazil or Rio's games (there are many cases - from Atlanta to Athens, of venues only coming together properly at the last moments - or Montreal, where they actually didn't complete the major showpiece structure). There was an hysterical over-reaction to many issues - like the water in the sailing area or the zika scare - that failed to materialise to the shock scenarios before the event. The "look" was mere cosmetic, didn't affect the delivery of the games was perfectly fine and serviceable at the end and only a bit lacking for those like us here who nit-pick over every detail of signage or graphics. They were what I would have expected or hoped for from any developing nation - Brazil couldn't or should't have ever been expected to deliver a Swiss clockwork games. I'm already missing the laid back latin delivery and expectations of them. 

And political turmoil? Well, in hindsight and perspective you gotta say from a western democratic liberal tradition and point of view, it was a pretty peaceful and constitutional "crisis". Definitely an improvement and evolution from the previous Latin American mode of operations which tended to involve violent coups, military actions and dictatorial crackdowns and oppressions. 

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On 2/12/2017 at 8:24 PM, Tulsa said:

Rio like Sotchi, Peyongchang 2018, and Beijing 2022 is a fail : Maracana is a new white elephant, only 6 months after the end of games... 

Like every time with this kind of bid. 

Why do you think PyeongChang 2018 and Beijing 2020 is a fail? since those Games are still in the future event..

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3 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

Yeah, but "high mess" is a total exaggeration. All the venues were finished on time - some cutting it very close and missing optimistic deadlines, but not something that was exclusive to Brazil or Rio's games (there are many cases - from Atlanta to Athens, of venues only coming together properly at the last moments - or Montreal, where they actually didn't complete the major showpiece structure). There was an hysterical over-reaction to many issues - like the water in the sailing area or the zika scare - that failed to materialise to the shock scenarios before the event. The "look" was mere cosmetic, didn't affect the delivery of the games was perfectly fine and serviceable at the end and only a bit lacking for those like us here who nit-pick over every detail of signage or graphics. They were what I would have expected or hoped for from any developing nation - Brazil couldn't or should't have ever been expected to deliver a Swiss clockwork games. I'm already missing the laid back latin delivery and expectations of them. 

And political turmoil? Well, in hindsight and perspective you gotta say from a western democratic liberal tradition and point of view, it was a pretty peaceful and constitutional "crisis". Definitely an improvement and evolution from the previous Latin American mode of operations which tended to involve violent coups, military actions and dictatorial crackdowns and oppressions. 

I guess it's a thing of culture differences. Many outside here like us for our laidbackness and taking everything on a happy note. But in all honesty, some like myself are growing tired of this reputation and want to aspire for more. I'm sorry if i can be very nitpicky about Rio, though. I guess i'm dissapointed the post legacy is far from what most of us would had wanted and I still pray the venues can be rescued. I still want developing countries to host the games besides the typical powerhouses but the IOC always has to be demanding and greedy about everything.  

Btw, I never said the political turmoil was violent. In fact i was glad everything was solved in a peaceful manner and the games weren't tarnished beside a couple of booes to Temer .

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48 minutes ago, Ikarus360 said:

 I guess i'm dissapointed the post legacy is far from what most of us would had wanted and I still pray the venues can be rescued.

The thing is, barely six months out from a games is still far, far too early to make any judgements about its legacy. Six months out from Sydney's games and also there was lots of hand wringing and snap judgements that the legacy was a failure. Four years on from the games and there was still criticism that Stadium Australis was a huge white elephant and Olympic Park was a dismal ghost town. Now, 17 years on, Stadium Australia is highly profitable and regular hosting major events in a range of sports. Olympic Park is a thriving working location attracting heaps of businesses to its locale. The indoor arena is now our major concert venue. We're in the midst of a huge new period of infrastructure spending and development. How long did take London to sort out its legacy from its Olympic stadium? Rio's barely had time to take stock of what it achieved, much less start pronouncing the verdict on its legacy. The Maracana, a successful and iconic stadium for more than 60 years, is now not suddenly a white elephant because of the Olympics. In the midst of an economic downturn, putting away the temporary venues is hardly high on the list of priorities for any government. Judge Rio 10 years down the track, not on some easy headlines mis-reading the situation now.

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9 hours ago, budse said:

Why do you think PyeongChang 2018 and Beijing 2020 is a fail? since those Games are still in the future event..

It's the worst choice possible to host WoG, Beijing isn't a winter place like Peyonchang. Nobody wants this kind of winter games. 

When I see the environmental and democratic situation in China, it's a shame for the olympic spirit and for sportsman to go there. 

Korea is democratic countries but politics are corrupted and probably they gave bribes to IOC to host WoG, moreover they don't have winter sport culture, popular fervor. They don't have good venues for Alpin ski, nordic ski and acrobatic ski and they won't have snow. 80% minimum of the snow will be artificial, PC will be artificial and probably the worst WoG.  

Excepted Japan, Asia can't host in good condition WoG, it's fact. 

Now think these choices nobody wants host WoG in Europe, WoG are dead, it's time to switch WoG and purpose something different without IOC who are unable to do a smart choice.  

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10 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

In the midst of an economic downturn, putting away the temporary venues is hardly high on the list of priorities for any government. Judge Rio 10 years down the track, not on some easy headlines mis-reading the situation now.

If the temporary venues have an economic value, then maximising that value probably should be high on the list of priorities, as should minimising value-reducing vandalism at permanent venues.

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15 hours ago, Tulsa said:

It's the worst choice possible to host WoG, Beijing isn't a winter place like Peyonchang. Nobody wants this kind of winter games. 

When I see the environmental and democratic situation in China, it's a shame for the olympic spirit and for sportsman to go there. 

Korea is democratic countries but politics are corrupted and probably they gave bribes to IOC to host WoG, moreover they don't have winter sport culture, popular fervor. They don't have good venues for Alpin ski, nordic ski and acrobatic ski and they won't have snow. 80% minimum of the snow will be artificial, PC will be artificial and probably the worst WoG.  

Excepted Japan, Asia can't host in good condition WoG, it's fact. 

Now think these choices nobody wants host WoG in Europe, WoG are dead, it's time to switch WoG and purpose something different without IOC who are unable to do a smart choice.  

with all your conditions then no country could host Olympic Games..

all countries must have the same opportunities regardless their political view, they should win the host right based on their merit. and regarding environmental issue, IOC should encourage the improvement as this one directly affected to the athletes and public health. 

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11 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

So they can compete, and win medals. Some even gold. But they better not think of hosting.

 

Yep, definitely an #alternativefacts

And yet, looked at in a different, non-political way, it does illustrate the problem. Finland, part of which is within the Arctic Circle, has hosted a Summer Olympic Games, but is barred from hosting a Winter Olympic Games. Narrow eligibility criteria, combined with high economic impact, have shrunk the pool of possible hosts dangerously close to zero.

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1 hour ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

And yet, looked at in a different, non-political way, it does illustrate the problem. Finland, part of which is within the Arctic Circle, has hosted a Summer Olympic Games, but is barred from hosting a Winter Olympic Games. Narrow eligibility criteria, combined with high economic impact, have shrunk the pool of possible hosts dangerously close to zero.

In what way though? There's places that geographically can't host a summer games either - Doha was knocked back for climate and much of the Southern Hemisphere is now out of the question for the time window - as it is for the WOGs as well. That sucks, but it's a physical restraint. That's different to saying they're undeserving of hosting because they don't fit your personal desirability criteria. Both China and South Korea perform well and win medals at the WOGs - yet some people would have it that they're still unfit to host because somehow winning on ice makes them more underserving than winning on snow. Just as it was important to take the summer games to Rio, it's important the WOGs go to new areas like Korea and China (as distasteful as I myself also find Beijing getting 2022) - the games belong to the world, not a select cadre of subjectively designated "worthies".

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23 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

In what way though? There's places that geographically can't host a summer games either - Doha was knocked back for climate and much of the Southern Hemisphere is now out of the question for the time window - as it is for the WOGs as well. That sucks, but it's a physical restraint. That's different to saying they're undeserving of hosting because they don't fit your personal desirability criteria. Both China and South Korea perform well and win medals at the WOGs - yet some people would have it that they're still unfit to host because somehow winning on ice makes them more underserving than winning on snow. Just as it was important to take the summer games to Rio, it's important the WOGs go to new areas like Korea and China (as distasteful as I myself also find Beijing getting 2022) - the games belong to the world, not a select cadre of subjectively designated "worthies".

Yes, it is a different issue, but it's a related issue which the IOC still needs to tackle. Purely geographical constraints should be minimised just as firmly as any other constraints, by modifying the IOC's criteria as much as possible. Alternatively, maybe it is time to abandon bidding altogether, and establish, say, three permanent venues in North America, Europe and Asia for summer and three more for winter. But personally, I think the permanent venues approach is just a route to a different type of disaster.

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1 hour ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

Yes, it is a different issue, but it's a related issue which the IOC still needs to tackle. Purely geographical constraints should be minimised just as firmly as any other constraints, by modifying the IOC's criteria as much as possible. Alternatively, maybe it is time to abandon bidding altogether, and establish, say, three permanent venues in North America, Europe and Asia for summer and three more for winter. But personally, I think the permanent venues approach is just a route to a different type of disaster.

No, I don't consider them related at all. One we're talking about geographical constraints. The other is just a matter of bigotry - or in this case the bigotry of one person who considers a couple of countries not worthy of hosting a winter games for completely subjective reasons. When the IOC has indeed awarded those countries anyway. It's not a constraint on them, it's a matter of offensive attitudes by members here.

On to your geographical constraints. Well, to a certain degree, one just has to accept them and use some common sense. It's not like Fiji or Havana are grossly wronged because they can never host a winter games and that the IOC has to modify their requirements to allow them that possibility. On the other hand, yes, you have given the example of Finland which indeed would be a worthy and deserving WOG host. But then again, the IOC HAS attempted to tackle and modify their criteria to make such hosting possible. One of the specific recommendations of Agenda 2020 pertaining to both the summer and winter games was to allow dual hosting across borders where it makes sense - which gave rise to the Krakow bid which involved (I think it was) Czechoslovakia, and would allow Finland to bid with a neighbour (as they did already once before the 2020 modifications with Norway. Or as Salzburg tried to do with Berchtesgaden). Agenda 2020 also floated the allowability of more regional bids, easing the way, for example, for Sweden to have a chance for a WOGs (on of my last great Oly hosting wishes for my lifetime) despite its distance handicaps for downhill venues. Or which in the summer arena has already given rise for Brisbane to now investigate a 2028 regional bid involving greater south-east Queensland.

I'm more concerned about the timing window constraints myself. The July-Sept window of allowability for the SOGs, and the Jan-Feb window for the WOGs. Which in both cases effectively knocks off a lot of otherwise willing, aspiring, deserving and attractive hosts from the southern hemisphere. I've been on my hobbyhorse before about how it eliminated an otherwise obvious host like Melbourne, or in South Africa where it limits the choices with Capetown and Jo-burg both constrained by their climate, or Buenos Aires in South America. Not to mention the chances of NZ, Chile, Argentina or even Oz perhaps spring to a WOGs which they could otherwise physically handle .I still maintain it was an unwise precedent for the IOC to use that criteria to eliminate Doha (or was it Dubai) from 2016 (or whenerever it was). Now THAT's a constraint that could easily be remedied with a bit of flexibility - but then again, we'd then be told that that is mightily unfair on the broadcasters - how dare anyone suggest winter sports can be televised in the US in July, or that the summer games be allowed to interfere with the fall sweeps period for US ratings!

Lets not get into the permanent hosting locations debate. An entirely different can of worms.

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9 hours ago, Sir Rols said:

I'm more concerned about the timing window constraints myself. The July-Sept window of allowability for the SOGs, and the Jan-Feb window for the WOGs.

I wonder how NBC would react if the Jan-Feb window was made allowable for a southern hemisphere Summer Games, or July for a Winter Games. B)

Discovery in Europe might well be quite pleased.

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15 minutes ago, JMarkSnow2012 said:

I wonder how NBC would react if the Jan-Feb window was made allowable for a southern hemisphere Summer Games, or July for a Winter Games. B)

Discovery in Europe might well be quite pleased.

For summer, it wouldn't need to be that drastic - extending the September deadline on to October or November at a pinch would suffice for most instances.

 

Not much we could do about winter. But then again, not much anyone can do about the Winter Games if global warming continues.

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Just to be a geography geek for a second...

Czechoslovakia disbanded 25 years ago. The proposal was for a joint Poland/Slovokia bid, which I still think would be awesome. 

There are no mountains in Finland anywhere near where people live. There are no mountains regardless of country anywhere near Helsinki. There are many imposed restraints on the WOG that could be lifted (need for lots of 5* hotel rooms, the calendar, etc.) But a ski-able mountain is pretty much non-negotiable. Helsinki, despite having territory north of the Arctic Circle ain't hosting a WOG. Of the eight countries north of the AC, six have already hosted (including summer-only Sweden and Finland) with Iceland and Greenland/Denmark not likely to host (baring a climate change apocalypse). 

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  • 1 month later...

Former Rio de Janeiro mayor investigated for alleged Olympics-related bribes -LA TIMES

Wednesday’s news further tarnishes the legacy of the troubled Rio Olympics, which took place during an economic crisis in Brazil and ran short of funds at the last minute.

Since last summer, there have been reports of some venues built at great cost going unused or falling into disrepair since the Games ended, which runs counter to the IOCs stated goal of leaving host cities with facilities that will benefit the populace long after the competition is over.

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Rio Olympics can't pay debts, offers used air conditioners instead

With 100 million reais ($32 million) in outstanding debts, the organizing committee is trying to pay off suppliers with stuff — air conditioners, portable energy units, electrical cables — in lieu of or in addition to cash.

Andrada said Cabral and others jailed in Rio may be using some of the furniture from the Athletes Village after mattresses and blankets were sent to a local prison for former police officers.

 

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  • 1 month later...

London 2017 World Championships vows medals are made to last – not to rust like Rio 2016 prizes did

Winners at this summer’s London World Championships have been assured they will be able to pass on their medals to their grandchildren after news that more than 100 won at the Rio 2016 Olympics and Paralympics had begun to disintegrate.

tumblr_o6bytgCyZe1ud9semo1_250.gif

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  • 4 weeks later...

The reported cost of the Rio games.....

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2017/06/14/ap-analysis-rio-de-janeiro-olympics-cost-13-1-billion/102860310/

Since the misinformed public thinks a winter games costs at least $50 billion, they will most certainly be somewhat confused by this number.

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15 hours ago, BTHarner said:

The reported cost of the Rio games.....

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2017/06/14/ap-analysis-rio-de-janeiro-olympics-cost-13-1-billion/102860310/

Since the misinformed public thinks a winter games costs at least $50 billion, they will most certainly be somewhat confused by this number.

Wasn't cleanup for the Guanabara Bay largely ignored?

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  • 4 weeks later...

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