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danfla
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Ok then, so if some report say all the Guanabara Bay suffer from the same problem and all of its water are equally polluted, and despite the fact my family lives in Flamengo (at the entrance of the bay), where sailing is planned to be hosted, I must forget what I know about the neighbourhood I spent most of my life to just trust some "document obtained by a foreigner journalist" otherwise you will make another post about how much I'm naive or whatever...

Ok, then. As soon as some other foreigner journalist writes about the bay we get back to discussion. So far, I'm just ignoring all I know about my home place just to agree with you... #not

The sewage problem exist. The bay in certain points is just disgusting/nasty. But there are two places being discussed as one.

Check the shape of the bay. See where the sailing is expected to be hosted, then check where most of industries and favelas without sewage are places. It's truly not hard to understand my point and the point defended by Torben Grael, sailing medalist. He complains a lot that, probably, they will do a surface cleaning of south part of the bay for the Olympics, leaving the waters to an acceptable level of pollution and no legacy will be left.

So there won't be benefits for the population.

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___

Again, I'm not saying Guanabara Bay is in shape to host the games or will be alright to do it in 2016. The challenge is huge.

I only don't like the same-old-same-old pictures of a zone of the bay far dozens of miles from the spot planned for the Olympics, this one in the picture.

baiadeguanabara_ascom_95.jpg


The possible Plan B for the Olympic is Buzios region, 150 km east from Rio.

buzios-Aerea-Ferradura-9971-divulg.jpg

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All of this because somebody in Canada said "My England" will not win the World Cup or "My England" is not seen as home of football outside England?

hahahahaha

Tony, you are ridiculous... That's a real "End of".

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Ok then, so if some report say all the Guanabara Bay suffer from the same problem and all of its water are equally polluted, and despite the fact my family lives in Flamengo (at the entrance of the bay), where sailing is planned to be hosted, I must forget what I know about the neighbourhood I spent most of my life to just trust some "document obtained by a foreigner journalist" otherwise you will make another post about how much I'm naive or whatever...

Ok, then. As soon as some other foreigner journalist writes about the bay we get back to discussion. So far, I'm just ignoring all I know about my home place just to agree with you... #not

The sewage problem exist. The bay in certain points is just disgusting/nasty. But there are two places being discussed as one.

Check the shape of the bay. See where the sailing is expected to be hosted, then check where most of industries and favelas without sewage are places. It's truly not hard to understand my point and the point defended by Torben Grael, sailing medalist. He complains a lot that, probably, they will do a surface cleaning of south part of the bay for the Olympics, leaving the waters to an acceptable level of pollution and no legacy will be left.

So there won't be benefits for the population.

I live in Flamengo. There are people swimming in the waters around Flamengo's park. It amazes me how you take everything that is on news as truth. As Danny said thousands of times, there's a huge difference between the situation of the bay around Gloria, Flamengo and Botafogo (the area chosen for the olympics) and other parts. You saw it here in real pictures.

Tony, you are extremely ethnocentric. I could spend some hours here giving you lessons of how "Your England" is what it is, but books are there for the ones able to understand. I am not saying the UK is evil. It was a historical process. It's ridiculous when one isn't able to understand that countries have a path dependence, they have a historical process. Otherwise you might think, Brazilians tend to admire a lot the development countries in Europe, the US, Canada, Australia and others have achieved. It's really admirable. But future is ahed of us. Brazil, Russia, China, India, South Africa, Nigeria, Mexico, Indonesia, Argentina, among others, are on their own path towards their own way of development. I think the opportunity that was given to Brazil shows we are on the right path, despite of the problems that are now known worldwide. It does not excuse anyone from not fullfilling what was promised both to Fifa and to the IOC, but one has to understand the obvious differences between a country such as Brazil, that has "just" got out a process of a dictatorship, it's on its longest period of democracy EVER and has just recently started its process of adressing our inequality problems, and others as the UK.

But well... what to expect from a spoiled child...

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I live in Flamengo. There are people swimming in the waters around Flamengo's park. It amazes me how you take everything that is on news as truth. As Danny said thousands of times, there's a huge difference between the situation of the bay around Gloria, Flamengo and Botafogo (the area chosen for the olympics) and other parts. You saw it here in real pictures.

Tony, you are extremely ethnocentric. I could spend some hours here giving you lessons of how "Your England" is what it is, but books are there for the ones able to understand. I am not saying the UK is evil. It was a historical process. It's ridiculous when one isn't able to understand that countries have a path dependence, they have a historical process. Otherwise you might think, Brazilians tend to admire a lot the development countries in Europe, the US, Canada, Australia and others have achieved. It's really admirable. But future is ahed of us. Brazil, Russia, China, India, South Africa, Nigeria, Mexico, Indonesia, Argentina, among others, are on their own path towards their own way of development. I think the opportunity that was given to Brazil shows we are on the right path, despite of the problems that are now known worldwide. It does not excuse anyone from not fullfilling what was promised both to Fifa and to the IOC, but one has to understand the obvious differences between a country such as Brazil, that has "just" got out a process of a dictatorship, it's on its longest period of democracy EVER and has just recently started its process of adressing our inequality problems, and others as the UK.

But well... what to expect from a spoiled child...

I'm sorry that you feel that way. I can assure you I am not ethnocentric. I have absolutely nothing against Brazil. If Madrid had Won 2016 and they were delayed, I would of criticised them, just like I criticised Sochi. Brazil is improving fast. I hope to Visit Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo and Brasilia one day. I'm a huge fan of Multiculturalism. I probably am over passionate about my Country, I can't help it. But I'm not ethnocentric and I'm a fan of Multiculturalism.

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I'm sorry that you feel that way. I can assure you I am not ethnocentric. I have absolutely nothing against Brazil. If Madrid had Won 2016 and they were delayed, I would of criticised them, just like I criticised Sochi. Brazil is improving fast. I hope to Visit Rio de Janeiro, Sao Paulo and Brasilia one day. I'm a huge fan of Multiculturalism. I probably am over passionate about my Country, I can't help it. But I'm not ethnocentric and I'm a fan of Multiculturalism.

I really hope, for your own sake, that it's true. But try to realise it's not what you have been doing here. It is really ok to be over passionate about your country. I think I am for mine too. But it can't be done, in my opinion, despite of other countries. Do you get it? I mean, people have already said here that my English sucks, but I think you can understand.

I'm sure you are a nice kid just trying to prove your points, but really... take some care.

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Thor we need to have a beer or coconut water in Flamengo Park someday (smelling that polluted waters of Guanabara Bay :rolleyes:.

My family lives at Edifício dos Bancários, that big one between Senador Vergueiro and Marquês de Abrantes.

As soon as I travel to Rio I make you know.

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Thor we need to have a beer or coconut water in Flamengo Park someday (smelling that polluted waters of Guanabara Bay :rolleyes:.

My family lives at Edifício dos Bancários, that big one between Senador Vergueiro and Marquês de Abrantes.

As soon as I travel to Rio I make you know.

Sure, Danny! :)

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Brazilians wake the phuck up and smell the damn roses, even your precious Pele is disgraced from your preparations. It does not matter if the picture was wrong or not, what matters is that the whole bay is a literal **** hole. Please stop with these, "That's not the REAL Rio" or "Western Media is painting us badly" or "We are developing differently", it's sounds worse then Tony's ethnocentric BS. Face it that your nation is in terrible shape, your economy is slowing down, and you have two years until the largest sporting event in the world and Rio is not ready.

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You realize what a total jackass you sound like??

Yeah I realize that and I honestly at this point do not care

I hope the Brazilians here don't take anything that Mr. Bernham just said seriously. In fact, you should all be very offended.

They should be offended that their government has put them in this position

Before non-educated people or simple slackers for not reading the news, I don't think the Brazilians won't be offended. Anyway, it's just a clueless American.

Yeah I never read the news that's how I never saw this article: https://theweek.com/speedreads/index/261889/speedreads-soccer-legend-pele-blasts-brazils-world-cup-preps-as-a-disgrace . I'm not a clueless American, I'm realistc, Brazil and Rio are in tough shape and I'm personally sick of coming to this thread checking for news and just seeing flame wars about how those pictures are not the real Rio and crap like that. When that happens we miss actual news.

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Yeah I never read the news that's how I never saw this article: https://theweek.com/speedreads/index/261889/speedreads-soccer-legend-pele-blasts-brazils-world-cup-preps-as-a-disgrace . I'm not a clueless American, I'm realistc, Brazil and Rio are in tough shape and I'm personally sick of coming to this thread checking for news and just seeing flame wars about how those pictures are not the real Rio and crap like that. When that happens we miss actual news.

First, I don't undestand why you got a cholerical reaction from nowhere. You have been nice so far. Anyway.

Never said the pictures are not from Rio. They are and, indeed, they are all recent.

I said the pictures are from a place really far from the spot planned to host sailing event. Which is a fact. The sailing event is expected to be placed near Sugar Loaf mountain in the very entrance of the bay (South), not in near Governador Island or Magé (like all the pictures we see here). It's like showing a picture of Clearwater Beach and say, "hey, this is Tampa Bay Downtown" (the distances are similar and I'm only talking about distances in this example).

Our government sucks, I said this several times. Our political system sucks, our bureaucracy suck aswell. There is no news on it. Brazilians are really tired of it. Did you read something about big protests last year? Anyway, leave our problems to us.

Face it that your nation is in terrible shape, your economy is slowing down, and you have two years until the largest sporting event in the world and Rio is not ready.

1. No, Brazil is not in terrible shape. We were in the 80s. When inflation rates could reach 2,700% per year, unemployment 20%, our external debt was bigger than the GDP and more than 40% of Brazilian lived below poverty line.

Our inflation rate now is 6% (yes, not good, but it's decreasing after lot of measures, some really not popular), unemployment 4,5%, we don't have external debt (in fact, 4th biggest creditor of the USA) and less the 6% lives below poverty line. I think, despite some cyclic crisis we are living now, Brazil is doing pretty well. It's maybe the first time we can deal with crisis without breaking the country apart.

Could Brazil do better? For sure but this a subject to be discussed by Brazilian electors before National Elections in October.

2. Rio is not ready. Yes, Rio is not! Where did somebody said it is? I really missed.

Two years for the games and I said I'm worried about some works (subway specially, no BRT tender for Barra so far and my list goes on).

Bernham, trust us, we live here (in my case for my entire life) and somehow I know how Brazil works. Be sure I'm not proud of this karma to get everything done at last minute. I don't like our politicians (all morons), I don't like even our administration system (I wished Brazil had something similar to counties like USA) but you overreacted, buddy.

I wish I could pay you tickets to Rio to show how big is Guanabara Bay, to show you the place where sailing was planned to be held and then take you 1 hour by car to Magé to see the place International Media goes to take pictures of a really nasty place with dirty waters.

I'm sure you will understand all of this.

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I got this map to make things clear

a13fig01.gif

The 1, 2, 3, 31 and 25 are the spots where International Media goes to take pictures.

The sailing event was planned to be held at 15, 16.

The area north of Sao Gonçalo is truly disgusting.

By the scale you can measure how enourmous is the bay.

Edited by Danny El Tico
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The main reason I'm mad is that many Brazilians are missing my point (and other peoples as well). We don't care if the bay is huge or smaller than an atom, the main point is that it's in bad shape along with Rio itself, and instead of having these petty arguments (looking at you Tony) we need to report real news. My earlier post was a climax point after several days of seeing this thread debate media (again) and the fact that this VERY important piece of news (Pele's disgrace) not being reported.

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The main reason I'm mad is that many Brazilians are missing my point (and other peoples as well). We don't care if the bay is huge or smaller than an atom, the main point is that it's in bad shape along with Rio itself, and instead of having these petty arguments (looking at you Tony) we need to report real news. My earlier post was a climax point after several days of seeing this thread debate media (again) and the fact that this VERY important piece of news (Pele's disgrace) not being reported.

Bernham, Rio is not in bad shape. Sorry, it's not mandatory to agree with you, specially, being here and living here.

We are showing another POV. Media tend to be sensationalistic, even the Brazilian one. If you watch ESPN Brasil reports.... They are utterly against the Olympic Games in Rio.

At no moment I said the bay is in good shape. But the reality is: the bay is huge and like the city of Rio or Rio preparation, we MUST not generalize saying "everything is in bad shape". That's my opinion.

No matter what International media says, they now are saying Brazil is bad shape. I never saw so many new cars in the streets, so many works being done, so many people travelling abroad (air tickets sales grew 600% in the last 6 years), so many residential buildings being erected and people buying new houses...

Sometimes we even laugh at some reports from abroad because they use to get one perspective and sell it as "this is entire Brazil". Anyone with some brain can think that a 200 million people country with more land area than continental USA will have different realities, sometimes even inside one given city... Detroit is not the same of San Francisco, right. This is not hard to understand.

About Pele, ask any Brazilian outside the threads what they think about his opinions, despite the fact he is right at this very one.

Edited by Danny El Tico
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You can not claim all the bay is in bad shape, simply because it's not.

How can you explain Vermelha Beach in Urca neighbourhood (entrance of the bay) is green-flaged for swimming?


Yes, part of Guanabara Bay

62__praia_vermelha_pao_de_acucar.jpg

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This is Flamengo Beach, also in the entrance of the bay, this beach have red-flags from times to times due pollution.
This is the very place Sailing event is expected to be held

6903135209_f24fbe6abc_z.jpg

Of course, this picture was taken in a day of green flags, otherwise nobody would be swimming.


Danny they do not mean that Rio is a crap town, they mean that in preparations for the World Cup AND Olympics the city is in very bad shape.

Again, I don't agree.
Despite the International Airport, which is a really shame right now because of the process to send it from government to private operation (which is not an excuse). The rest of preparations for the World Cup were all done in the time for the event.

Even the BRT line from International Airport to Barra, delayed as hell, is ready.


For the World Cup, Rio only promised.

- Maracana Stadium (done for Confederations Cup)

- International Airport Renovation (not done, will be ready for the Olympics under Changi operation)

- Media Center - done, and operating

- BRT TransOeste - done and operating

- BRT TransCarioca - done, starts operation in 15 days

- FIFA Fan Fest - under montage, in schedule.

- Copacabana Beach 10 TV studios for FIFA licensed broadcasters - done and operating

- Qualifiers Draw structure - It was a success at the time

- Maracana Subway station renovation - final works, to be opened 1 week before first match


Bumpy preparations: For sure.

Rio is in really bad shape to the World Cup: I don't think so.

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Brazilians wake the phuck up and smell the damn roses, even your precious Pele is disgraced from your preparations. It does not matter if the picture was wrong or not, what matters is that the whole bay is a literal **** hole. Please stop with these, "That's not the REAL Rio" or "Western Media is painting us badly" or "We are developing differently", it's sounds worse then Tony's ethnocentric BS. Face it that your nation is in terrible shape, your economy is slowing down, and you have two years until the largest sporting event in the world and Rio is not ready.

You mean the "City of Rio" or "State of Rio de Janeiro"? What Danyel is saying is that the bay is not located within the Rio city, but many cities and that the part of Rio is the less polluted of the bay. The situation of the Bay "as a whole" is bad but the sailing competitions will not occur in the "whole" bay, just part of it, as the olympic games will occur only in Rio, not across the huge state (not by our standards, but larger than some european countries). You are generalizing a problem we all are aware, much more than you. I cross the Rio-Niteroi Bridge every week and I can say that the pollution is visible. But the problem of the bay is much more complex than you realize. Seven municipalities dump their sewage on it. There is no way for the federal or state government to simply "clean up" the whole bay. If each of the seven municipalities don't do their part by increasing its oversight of the disposal of garbage and sewage, the situation of the bay (as a whole) will not improve. This problem will only be solved in many years, but in 2016, we will not see pictures of boats between tires and plastic bottles. The (...) press will have to move to places very far of the competition venues to make their images.

(...) Just for Tony not bother.

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You mean the "City of Rio" or "State of Rio de Janeiro"? What Danyel is saying is that the bay is not located within the Rio city, but many cities and that the part of Rio is the less polluted of the bay. The situation of the Bay "as a whole" is bad but the sailing competitions will not occur in the "whole" bay, just part of it, as the olympic games will occur only in Rio, not across the huge state (not by our standards, but larger than some european countries). You are generalizing a problem we all are aware, much more than you. I cross the Rio-Niteroi Bridge every week and I can say that the pollution is visible. But the problem of the bay is much more complex than you realize. Seven municipalities dump their sewage on it. There is no way for the federal or state government to simply "clean up" the whole bay. If each of the seven municipalities don't do their part by increasing its oversight of the disposal of garbage and sewage, the situation of the bay (as a whole) will not improve. This problem will only be solved in many years, but in 2016, we will not see pictures of boats between tires and plastic bottles. The (...) press will have to move to places very far of the competition venues to make their images.

(...) Just for Tony not bother.

I'm not talking about the bay, I'm talking about the preparations in general.

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Yes, big part of the preparations for the Olympic Games "in general" is delayed. But every single Brazilian here already said that.

What's matter then?

(...) Just for Tony not bother.

He won't

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Yes, big part of the preparations for the Olympic Games "in general" is delayed. But every single Brazilian here already said that.

What's matter then?

I was mad that this thread has evolved into flame wars between you and Tony, and that Pele's opinion on these matters (the preps) went completely unreported.

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