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LuigiVercotti

Where To If The Bid Fails

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Are there any solid indications Paris will bid again in the future Frenchy? I suppose with Annecy in the mix for 2018, we won't find out until they've won or lost I guess?

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Are there any solid indications Paris will bid again in the future Frenchy? I suppose with Annecy in the mix for 2018, we won't find out until they've won or lost I guess?

You've got it in one Rob!

No need to speculate until WOG2018 is chosen....

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By sexy I do not mean pretty. I mean X-factor.

London had it. Sochi had it. Rio had it.

IMO Munich has it this time. Annecy is definitely not.

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Nice try Tulsa!

Fooling the ioc into thinking that Paris has lost the will to fight in order to strengthen the Annecy 2018 bid.

Crafty but, unfortunately, it won't work! ;)

The "Grand Paris" project mainly concerns interlinking isolated towns around Paris into the capital's transport system in order to open them up to the rest of the world. It's a transport oriented programme and not a housing one although housing does have a role to play.

http://www.gouvernement.fr/gouvernement/les-projets-pour-le-grand-paris (in French)

Concerning the mayor, I don't remember him saying anything about Paris not wanting to bid for a fourth (not third) time.

What I think he said was that he would not be leading a future bid and would leave it to someone else.

He, no doubt, had a reality check and understood that being a socialist, gay and not an English speaker didn't really endear him to a majority of the ioc's members....

It's the reality Paris won't bid for 2020 or 2024... And if you follow news about France and Paris, you will can see : Paris don't think about SOG for a long time... And Annecy is the best chance for France to have Olympic games for next decade (2020)

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By sexy I do not mean pretty. I mean X-factor.

London had it. Sochi had it. Rio had it.

IMO Munich has it this time. Annecy is definitely not.

:lol: What is sexy in Munich Bid? Have ever visit Munich?

If you are objective Annecy is more beautifull than Munich... just have look with picture on Google and compare...

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^Exactly. What is 'sexy or the x-factor' in Munich's bid? Again, it could all be subjective.

I'd say PyeongChang has the x-factor in this race. Munich, in a way, is more of a been-there, done-that candidate. The bid mostly calls for existing infrastructure (i.e. like Salzburg 2014), so in that respect, there's not much room for legacy.

PyeongChang is offering a new horizon & opportunity for the Winter Olympics. That right there is the x-factor akin to Rio's, Sochi's & Bejing's.

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And now, ironically, there's another x-factor in the 2018 race: the 2020 SOG bid by Durban.

As I said in the Durban thread, the only threat to the SOG going to Africa could be a potential Tokyo bid... something that could be sidetracked if the WOG are awarded to PC.

48 hours ago, I was calling this a horse race with Munich at the tape. Now? I'm starting to wonder if the stars (and politics) are finally coming into line for PC.

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It's the reality Paris won't bid for 2020 or 2024... And if you follow news about France and Paris, you will can see : Paris don't think about SOG for a long time... And Annecy is the best chance for France to have Olympic games for next decade (2020)

Links?

("Il y a loin de la coupe aux lèvres!")

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By sexy I do not mean pretty. I mean X-factor.

The so called X-factor is just some sad excuse for Simon Cowell to line his pockets...

:P

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I think the fact that this is PC's 3rd try and the fact that they've lost so narrowly on both previous attempts will definitely impact the decision. This is not Istanbul. The IOC will need an excellent reason to prolong this "always the bridesmaid" syndrome any further.

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Like Beijing's extremely narrow loss for 2000. The IOC made damn sure that wouldn't the case for 2008 for the Chinese.

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There is enough of a good reason to not go to Pyeongchang as is. The craptacular hostings of major world cups and world championships, the poisonous relationship with the IOC and the IFs, the growing dislike of Samsung as a sponsor due to the events of 2014 and the lobbying of both the Chinese and Japanese.

The Russians have debts to repay to Japan for their support for Sochi. The only major powerblock that will be behind PC is the Italians to secure the possibility of Rome in 2020.

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There is enough of a good reason to not go to Pyeongchang as is. The craptacular hostings of major world cups and world championships, the poisonous relationship with the IOC and the IFs, the growing dislike of Samsung as a sponsor due to the events of 2014 and the lobbying of both the Chinese and Koreans.

The Russians have debts to repay to Japan for their support for Sochi. The only major powerblock that will be behind PC is the Italians to secure the possibility of Rome in 2020.

How do you know what goes on in 115 minds, faster?? :blink:

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Nothing I said is incorrect and is support by other well-informed posters here. Korea is not a pill the IOC will easily swallow.

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Stuttgart? :blink:

If Stuttgart had a problem getting past Leipzig for 2012 and then Leipzig went down quicker than a Garuda airliner in the race won by London (not even getting over the first hurdle), then the German NOK will be totally verrückt to think that Stuttgart would be a viable candidate for 2020. Berlin, Hamburg or maybe Munich on the rebound perhaps but Stuttgart...nein :P

Leipzig was an attempt to bring much needed economic recovery to the Eastern side of Germany, as well as becoming a symbol for the reunification (where the mass rallies had started and such). Too bad it didn't make it to the candidate stage, even if it had the 6.0 needed. Perhaps if it bids in the future, it will make it to the candidate stage, but realistically, I'd probably go for a Berlin bid if Germany wants another Summer Games, even though a Leipzig one would be symbolic and more importantly, economically beneficial to the region.

http://lorddavid04.deviantart.com/art/Leipzig-DDR-2012-Olympic-Logo-81766633?q=gallery%3ALordDavid04%2F22381&qo=32

http://lorddavid04.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d2g6nay

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Faster cited some good reasons for the IOC to bypass PC a third time. I'm still not convinced it will be enough to bring them down. It's definitely a two-horse race and the margin of victory will be narrow. According to Tony Blair's new book, the Italians with their large contingent of IOC members were instrumental in London's victory. Who's to say they won't be instrumental in Munich's defeat? Plus, what other European nations may harbor aspirations for 2020?

Regarding the X-Factor... apart from Beijing, has ANY Asian host ever seemed to have the X-Factor? Certainly not Nagano. Not Seoul either. I wonder if the expectations are slightly different for Asian bidders....

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Faster cited some good reasons for the IOC to bypass PC a third time. I'm still not convinced it will be enough to bring them down. It's definitely a two-horse race and the margin of victory will be narrow. According to Tony Blair's new book, the Italians with their large contingent of IOC members were instrumental in London's victory. Who's to say they won't be instrumental in Munich's defeat? Plus, what other European nations may harbor aspirations for 2020?

Regarding the X-Factor... apart from Beijing, has ANY Asian host ever seemed to have the X-Factor? Certainly not Nagano. Not Seoul either. I wonder if the expectations are slightly different for Asian bidders....

I just wonder where is the main strength of the PC lobbying for 2018 coming from within the upper echelons of the IOC? Is it perhaps a bid that will appeal to the members who come from Asia and Africa simply to balance out the Europeans and maybe Americans? If South Korea had more of their own folk up in the top command area of the IOC to balance out the likes of Thomas Bach then it'd be a lay down misere for them to trot back in after 2 failed bids. But as Detroit, Ostersund and Istanbul know just because you front up for the big game time after time doesn't mean you'll get the prize for punctuality or frequent attendance. And as shown time and time again, where the third place votes leak to after their rejection will guide the winner. PC needs to win in the first round or I think it'll be out of luck again.

Um, by it's very nature it's hard to say whether or not Asian host cities had an X Factor. Perhaps there was the ineffable quality to Tokyo thanks to its unique status as the first Asian Olympics, whilst Sapporo could lay claim to the first Asian winter games. Seoul...well it did have that whole cachet of South Korea's economic miracle as well as the oft proclaimed (but scarcely believed) quality of the IOC opening up Korea politically. Nagano perhaps is the most pedestrian of the Asian games, which in itself is no big issue. Thing is will PC be another Nagano?

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But as Detroit, Ostersund and Istanbul know just because you front up for the big game time after time doesn't mean you'll get the prize for punctuality or frequent attendance.

Y do some people try to lump PyeongChang with these losing cities. Unlike PyeongChang, Detroit & Istanbul have lost by very large margins. Even Ostersund lost by a landslide to Salt Lake. And the Turks seem to be under the simple impression that their chances are much better this time around simply because of Rio's success.

If anything, I'd say PyeongChang is more like Paris. Losing by a very small margin after a few attempts, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the IOC is not interested the next time around.

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Y do some people try to lump PyeongChang with these losing cities. Unlike PyeongChang, Detroit & Istanbul have lost by very large margins. Even Ostersund lost by a landslide to Salt Lake. And the Turks seem to be under the simple impression that their chances are much better this time around simply because of Rio's success.

If anything, I'd say PyeongChang is more like Paris. Losing by a very small margin after a few attempts, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the IOC is not interested the next time around.

Simple...because like Detroit, like Manchester, like Istanbul, like Buenos Aires, like Ostersund and all those other cities PC has fronted up for multiple bids and lost on multiple times. It is not a reflection on the voting pattern, where it sits in the trends of narrow loses versus huge failures or the quality of the bid...it's a simple bloody historical truth. Until PC gets the gong it is in the same ranks as these losing cities.

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Incheon should be most prepared for SK, I would think after their Asian Games. Also, has anyone mentioned Lyon. I know it isn't right cap. but new soccer stad. prop. looks massive!

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Problem with Marseille though, is that it's too small now for the Summer Olympics of today. Even smaller than Barcelona. Marseille's metro pop. is only 1.6 million.

And from what you're saying, it seems that a future Paris bid is far more uncertain than whether or not South Africa is going to throw their hat in the ring for 2020. Seems like the IOC has really lost out on a Paris Olympics for a long, long while going by your post.

Lille would be in same category, too?

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France should do their homework first.

For instance have a French guy in the executive board of the IOC or at the head of major IFs (NOT fencing). There is no French heavyweight in the IOC. No French athlete has ever been elected by the athletes for the IOC... I could continue.

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Here's my take. First of all i see the 2018 race as a very close one between Pyeongchang and Munich and at this point it could go either way. Annecy's problems have been mentioned so I won't rehash them.

Munich - They seem to be a go if they don't win 2018 which could make the race for 2022 very interesting especially if Norway, Switzerland, and Sweden (if they can ever get the government support needed) decide to throw their hats into the ring.

Pyeongchang - As has already been discussed, I highly doubt Pyeongchang would give it another try if they don't come through this time. I would suspect Korea would turn its attention to SOG.

Annecy - I think a lot determines on what happens in Durban. If Annecy is elminated in convincing fashion on the first ballot (as I suspect) then I doubt you will see another Annecy bid anytime soon. It's really anybody's guess as to what France will do after that.

Again, it''s all speculation of course until the vote in Durban, but I do think a Pyeongchang win will lead to several European candidates going for 2022 especially if there's the thought that South Africa could be a tough one to overcome in the 2020 race.

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I still think it's PC's to lose. Over the last few awarding of the Games:

2016: sexy choice but the bid was based on delivering outstanding Games.

2014: unsexy choice, but the bid was based on delivering outstanding Games.

2012: The bid was based on delivering outstanding Games.

2010: The bid was based on delivering outstanding Games.

2008: The bid was based on delivering outstanding Games.

None of these bids had a significant flaw or issue. For 2014 and 2012 and 2010 there were 2 bids that were of a decent enough standard to win on merit. 2018 is the same.

The only derailer I see for PC is the North Koreans. Other European Games aspirations mean a number of derailers for Munich. But I didn't see London's win coming at all! :P

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