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Africa Unlikely To Host Olympics For 20 Years - IOC Official


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An African from Morocco is even further removed from South Africa than that event was.

Africa North of the Sahara is predominantly an Arab region that has nearly no cultural or economic similarities with Sub-Saharan Africa. The differences are as stark as the differences between Brazil and the USA. Viewing this person as an "African voice" on the IOC is ludicrous. She is just as much an "outsider" to South Africa as Dick Pound is.

Right on target.

Which is why I find Nawal's comments ambiguous at best & completely bias at worst, since I really wouldn't view an Olympics in Morocco as an "African" Olympics, but rather I'd see it much more as an Arab, Muslim, Middle Eastern one. But a lot of people seem to interchange them with the rest of Africa, since as you said, to non-Africans, Africa is a big, homogenous continent, which is quite a misnomer.

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Barely a month after a successful world class event in her continent and she says that? I'd like to listen her elaborating more on that subject...

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Let's wait a little more. Maybe tomorrow she ellaborates her speach, her tought. But no one can deny she was very courageous in saying what she thinks. However, JR plans to the SOG seem very clear: he wants the games in every continent. What she said about SA is what was said about Brasil one year ago. And we all know what happened. By the way, nothing has changed in Brasil till now: time flies and things are stoped. The only thing I saw was the beggining of the construction of a metro branch. Nothing else.

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Just so we get more than the original story cited here, the following sites have additional comments from Nawal:

From: Play The Game

The most senior African member of the International Olympic Committee (IOC), Nawal El Moutawakel, has claimed that it will be another 20 years before Africa is ready to host the Games.

South African cities hoping to launch a bid later this year for 2020 will be dealt a jolt by the claim that hosting the Olympics would be more than any African country could cope with at the moment, despite the success of the FIFA World Cup.

El Moutawakel has claimed that an Olympics poses far greater challenges than a World Cup, even though Johannesburg, along with Durban and Cape Town, have been mentioned as possible contenders to bid for the Games.

El Moutawakel was quoted as saying, "Let us face it. Africa has many unique problems and other priorities to handle at the moment".

And the story as reported via Reuters on 'Around The Rings':

Olympic Newsdesk -- African Bid Premature; YOG Village Complete, Venues Questioned

7/28/2010

Africa’s First Olympics 20 Years Away

Africa likely won’t host the Olympics for at least another 20 years, an IOC member tells Reuters.

“There is a huge amount of work to be done besides political desire, hence the experts' view that any realistic chance for (hosting the) Olympics in Africa is between 2030 and 2040," Nawal el Moutawakel, who chaired the IOC's Rio 2016 coordinating committee, told the news agency.

South Africa’s recent World Cup success ignited hype in the media and hope throughout Africa that the continent was ready for the bigger stage. Or, at least, that South Africa could be ready by 2020.

"Soccer World Cup is one sport in nine cities, with 64 matches played by 32 countries in one month. Olympics is 26 sports in one city played by 10,500 athletes in three weeks and watched by billions around the world,” El Moutawakel told Reuters.

The Olympic champion hurdler did applaud the city of Durban for winning its bid to host the July 2011 IOC session, at which the 2018 Olympic host city will be announced.

A senior IOC member told Around the Rings last week that Durban is the best city in South Africa to make a strong bid for the 2020 Olympics.

El Moutawakel made the comments in the Kenyan capital of Nairobi Wednesday for the African Athletics Championships.

So to summarise Nawal's position re an African SOGs (and she doesn't pick out South Africa as being individually incapable of a realistic 2020 bid, she says Africa as a whole is unable to deliver one) she believes:

  • Africa has other issues than an SOGs to deal with before a candidate from the continent can have a realistic bid
  • The SOGs are a larger and more complex proposition than FIFA's World Cup
  • Durban is a worthy host for the 2011 session
  • She has read studies that elaborate on this divergence in African capacity and ability to deliver a games before 2030

All up her ket arguments sound eminently sensible and supportable. Whether Nawal's opinions reflect the desire of the rest of the IOC or for that matter the hopes of the continent, South Africa, individual cities or even posters here is of course highly debatable. What isn't debatable that as an IOC member with considerable prestige within the upper echelons of the Lausanne bunker her opinions will hold more weight with the membership than the supporters of an African bid from outside the IOC. The question then is how much of her opinion reflects the influence of the major power brokers within the IOC. I suspect for now it is the prevailing opinion, but as seen time and time again the internal politics of the IOC can shift bringing surprise results.

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Let's wait a little more. Maybe tomorrow she ellaborates her speach, her tought. But no one can deny she was very courageous in saying what she thinks. However, JR plans to the SOG seem very clear: he wants the games in every continent. What she said about SA is what was said about Brasil one year ago. And we all know what happened. By the way, nothing has changed in Brasil till now: time flies and things are stoped. The only thing I saw was the beggining of the construction of a metro branch. Nothing else.

Raphael, according to the schedule of Rio 2016 committe everything is on time. No stadium will start to be built before the second half of 2013.

And the agreement with Brazilian Motorsports Authority is to build a new speedway in Rio before use the actual one to set the Olympic Park.

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HATS OFF TO NAWAL EL MOUTAWAKEL!!

I am so sick of Rogge's duplicitous double-speak. Finally somebody who calls 'em like she sees 'em. I'd vote for her for president in a heartbeat. (The IOC may have other ideas...)

I find Rogge shady and disingenuous. Encouraging everybody to bid -- acting like they all have a strong chance. It's garbage. There are favorites, there are politics, there are practical realities and pretending like none of it exists is stupid. If he expects us to believe that nonsense then he's treating the public as if WE'RE stupid.

El Moutawakel called a spade a spade. She might be right. She might be wrong. But she gave concrete facts as the reason for her opinion. She certainly didn't put anybody down. Obviously she and Rogge are not on the same page (as he's been pressuring SA to bid for quite sometime). I find it very refreshing that she spoke so clearly.

I'd love to hear what she has to say about USOC/IOC relations. I'd pay attention....

Just to clarify -- I really would love to see the Games in Africa and will be 100% behind a viable African bid. (I suspect El Moutawakel would agree.) I'm not convinced, however, that there is currently an African city who can host the Games with "similar or less risk than Rio."

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I can't believe how untactful and undiplomatic she is. Like nobody will see through her own agenda? :rolleyes:

Really, kinda stupid statement. Why would Cape Town rank #3 in the 2004 voting but suddenly isn't good enough for 2020? Obviously, this woman has her own ax to grind. Shameless. :rolleyes:

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Why would Cape Town rank #3 in the 2004 voting but suddenly isn't good enough for 2020?

Yeah, but CT was never going ton win the 2004 vote. It was all encouragement.

I know I'm fond of quoting Dick Pound, but again I find his comments on the 2004 vote candid and illuminating. Make of it what you will:

"It was an interesting election. By eliminating Stockholm before Cape Town, the IOC sent a signal that some day the games would go to Africa. Almost no-one in the IOC thought, expected or wanted Cape Town to win, but it was important to show the world that Africa was not being ignored ... the main contest, however, was between Rome and Athens, with the elimination of others as mere warm-up exercises."

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Raphael, according to the schedule of Rio 2016 committe everything is on time. No stadium will start to be built before the second half of 2013.

And the agreement with Brazilian Motorsports Authority is to build a new speedway in Rio before use the actual one to set the Olympic Park.

Thanks for correcting me, Dannyel. Have a nice weekend.

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Cape Town was really just in its infancy back then and to have produced a bid of such high quality is remarkable even today.

Nobody knows when Africa will win, but when we do bid, we will go through the same process as any other city.

Whether we win or not, nobody can guarantee and perhaps not even until the 2040's.

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Thanks for correcting me, Dannyel. Have a nice weekend.

Sorry, I made some mistake when saying 2013... Maracana is expected to be ready in 2013 for FIFA Confederations Cup.

The complete schedule was posted in Rio 2016 Orkut community, so, if you have orkut:

http://www.orkut.com...278610971464757

According to this Maria Lenk Aquatic Park will have its refurbshment starting in 2011 just like Lagoa Canoe/Kayak Stadium.

In 2012 starts Deodoro's X Park and Olympic Village in Barra

All the others starts in 2013.

Sorry for the mistake.

You too. Enjoy the winter sunny days! I love this kind of weather smile.gif

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There are no cities in the UK currently fit to hot the Summer Olympic Games. Rio is not currently fit to host, in fact, quite far from it.

Whats your point?

The question is, is there a South Africa city or cities, that by 2020 can deliver successful Games.

Answer: yes.

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Just a few figures to illustrate that, notwithstanding the accuracy of Nawal's prediction regarding when Africa will be ready to host the Games (until we have seen a concrete proposal from South-Africa, we won't know how credible the bid will be), when she points out that hosting the WC and the Olympics are two different things she is right :

- WC: 8 to 10 cities

- Olympics: 1 city (+ 4 co-host cities)

- WC: 1 month

- Olympics: 2 weeks

- WC 2010: potential number of spectators: 4,000,000 (guestimate 64 matches * average stadium capacity of 60,000)

- Olympics, using Rio 2016 as an example (venues capacity rather small - e.g. 60,000 spectators for track&field): 7,000,000 tickets forecasted in bid book (could be closer to 9,000,000 in other cities depending on venue capacities)

- WC: peak requirement for spectator transportation in any of the host city: 80,000 day (no more than one game per day in any given city)

- Olympics: forecasted peak demand in Rio about 500,000 on day 7 including almost 300,000 in the Barra Cluster only (keeping in mind that Rio has a rather spread out concept)

- WC: 32 teams of 22 players plus a staff of 100 per delegation -> 4,000 people spread over 8 to 10 cities

- Olympics: close to 17,000 athletes and officials in one city and one Olympic Village

- WC: one single IBC and press centres distributed over 8 to 10 cities

- Olympics: all media and broadcasters located in a single city (accommodation required for about 19,000 people)

-WC: arrivals and departures spread over the whole tournament

- Olympics: peak departure day on the day following closing ceremony: close to 40,000 people transiting through the airport

I am not saying that South-Africa won't present a good enough bid for 2020 but seriously, all of you guys claiming that because South-Africa successfully hosted the WC, it is therefore capable of hosting the Games and anyone raising questions is either ignorant or has a hidden agenda, need a serious reality check.

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Just a few figures to illustrate that, notwithstanding the accuracy of Nawal's prediction regarding when Africa will be ready to host the Games (until we have seen a concrete proposal from South-Africa, we won't know how credible the bid will be), when she points out that hosting the WC and the Olympics are two different things she is right :

- WC: 8 to 10 cities

- Olympics: 1 city (+ 4 co-host cities)

- WC: 1 month

- Olympics: 2 weeks

- WC 2010: potential number of spectators: 4,000,000 (guestimate 64 matches * average stadium capacity of 60,000)

- Olympics, using Rio 2016 as an example (venues capacity rather small - e.g. 60,000 spectators for track&field): 7,000,000 tickets forecasted in bid book (could be closer to 9,000,000 in other cities depending on venue capacities)

- WC: peak requirement for spectator transportation in any of the host city: 80,000 day (no more than one game per day in any given city)

- Olympics: forecasted peak demand in Rio about 500,000 on day 7 including almost 300,000 in the Barra Cluster only (keeping in mind that Rio has a rather spread out concept)

- WC: 32 teams of 22 players plus a staff of 100 per delegation -> 4,000 people spread over 8 to 10 cities

- Olympics: close to 17,000 athletes and officials in one city and one Olympic Village

- WC: one single IBC and press centres distributed over 8 to 10 cities

- Olympics: all media and broadcasters located in a single city (accommodation required for about 19,000 people)

-WC: arrivals and departures spread over the whole tournament

- Olympics: peak departure day on the day following closing ceremony: close to 40,000 people transiting through the airport

I am not saying that South-Africa won't present a good enough bid for 2020 but seriously, all of you guys claiming that because South-Africa successfully hosted the WC, it is therefore capable of hosting the Games and anyone raising questions is either ignorant or has a hidden agenda, need a serious reality check.

But so what? That argument is specious.

Did Seoul, Barcelona, Sydney, Athens '04 (OK, Atlanta had the 1988 Democractic convention) have anything close in scale to hosting a World Cup? Yet they won and staged the Summer Games.

And isn't the whole point of test events the year before to fine tune the host for the real thing?

To me, that argument doesn't hold. And El Motakwal really has her own ax to grind.

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Wow, Baron. So anti-Nawal.

She was direct, but she wasn't harsh. Isn't it possible that she's just being honest and forthright? Who says she's secretly pining for Moroccan Games? It's the first time in a long while I've heard anything come out of the IOC that didn't reek of political maneuvering.

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Wow, Baron. So anti-Nawal.

She was direct, but she wasn't harsh. Isn't it possible that she's just being honest and forthright? Who says she's secretly pining for Moroccan Games? It's the first time in a long while I've heard anything come out of the IOC that didn't reek of political maneuvering.

Thanks Mate. Totally agree. This notion that one of the most respected members of the IOC now has some Machiavellian strategy to deny South Africa for half a century more to ensure that Morocco has a chance to get its sh!t together first, beggars credulity.

Anyway, she said ALL of Africa, would struggle. Ruling out quite definitely her home country in the process. And if she mentions South Africa it's precisely because it's the most likely, and expected, at the moment to reach the Olympic benchmark.

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She doesn't need a burkha to hide her ulterior motives. She is so transparent. ;)

And the objections still don't hold water. As I said, what did Seoul, Barcelona, Sydney, even Athens '04 and Beijing have in the equivalent of a World Cup as prep for their stab at the SOGs? (OK, Athens may have the 1997 IAAF Championships...but then again there goes the argument that that was merely a 1-city event.) NOTHING close to a World Cup hosting which is a 9-city event anyway.

So, other than test events the year before, those 5 recent summer hosts HAD NOTHING on a scale of (even being part of a) World Cup to have gained any staging experience. So I don't see why all of a sudden, Narwahl diminishes South Africa's experience??? :blink:

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Thanks Mate. Totally agree. This notion that one of the most respected members of the IOC now has some Machiavellian strategy to deny South Africa for half a century more to ensure that Morocco has a chance to get its sh!t together first, beggars credulity.

Anyway, she said ALL of Africa, would struggle. Ruling out quite definitely her home country in the process. And if she mentions South Africa it's precisely because it's the most likely, and expected, at the moment to reach the Olympic benchmark.

I'm with you SR, insofar as I'm struggling to believe that Nawal is employed in some kind of deeply cynical game of downplaying SA's chances for Rabat's. I am sure however she is voicing concerns that are held commonly in the IOC however that the WC2010 success shouldn't translate in the IOC's minds to instant favouritism for a SA bid. And having checked three versions of her story she never said definitively 'SA can't host or even bid for 2020' she referred to the whole of Africa and then drew comparisons and contrasts between the SOGs and the FIFA WCs. As I posted earlier I think if there is any Machiavellian game being played it's about lowering the expectations inspired by Sepp Blather and FIFA for an African SOGs. Methinks the higher ups and many of the non-football loving rank and file don't want an Olympic agenda driven by a rival international sporting federation.

But so what? That argument is specious.

Did Seoul, Barcelona, Sydney, Athens '04 (OK, Atlanta had the 1988 Democractic convention) have anything close in scale to hosting a World Cup? Yet they won and staged the Summer Games.

And isn't the whole point of test events the year before to fine tune the host for the real thing?

To me, that argument doesn't hold. And El Motakwal really has her own ax to grind.

Baron, I also tend to agree with the principles behind your arguments. Yes Nawal will have an agenda (she wouldn't be as important in the IOC if she didn't) re 2020 but I fail to see the concrete evidence for her arguing against SA bids for Rabat. Perhaps (and god strike me down if this is true) she actually has the interests of the dispossessed, the poor, the HIV affected or the starving Africans in every nation across the continent at heart instead of the minority moneyed classes, the political interest groups and the international companies which would mostly benefit from an African SOGs. Or maybe she has seen enough gigantism and bloat in the SOGs to convince her that Africans can ill afford what is ultimately a two week festival of money making, political aggrandisement and nationalism. But a simple 'Rabat = Good, Durban/Jo-burg/CT = Bad equation' for her motivation...nah.

As for the examples you cited re cities that held SOGs without having held WC's you are 100% right, insofar as they were still able to host games without prior international tournament experience. However in varying degrees each of these host cities were able to rely on other factors that potential African host cities in the main don't have. That's not to say they won't develop these other technical capabilities, but what really needs to come in on an African bid's side is a heavy hitter within the IOC's upper hierarchy. Would there have been a Barcelona in Spain without a recent WC (and there was one in 1982 don't forget) without JAS on side...probably not. Or Sydney without Kevan Gosper? Or Seoul without Mickey Kim? The causal link between a WC success and a SOG bid is potentially spurious, but what is irrefutable is the link between the bid and IOC patronage.

Bluntly, a WC is not an SOG and having one doesn't necessarily mean you'll get the other (or conversely not having one will stop you from getting the other). However an IOC president, a chief technical commissioner, a VP or a long term member who knows where the bodies and the cash lies in Lausanne on your side will give even a Bulawayo or Timbuktu 2020 bid of interest to the esteemed membership. If CT was able to bid for 2004 without much more than sentiment behind it 13 years ago then Durban 2020 will easily grab a goodly chunk of votes 2 years from now...

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but what really needs to come in on an African bid's side is a heavy hitter within the IOC's upper hierarchy. Would there have been a Barcelona in Spain without a recent WC (and there was one in 1982 don't forget) without JAS on side...probably not. Or Sydney without Kevan Gosper? Or Seoul without Mickey Kim? The causal link between a WC success and a SOG bid is potentially spurious, but what is irrefutable is the link between the bid and IOC patronage.

Bluntly, a WC is not an SOG and having one doesn't necessarily mean you'll get the other (or conversely not having one will stop you from getting the other). However an IOC president, a chief technical commissioner, a VP or a long term member who knows where the bodies and the cash lies in Lausanne on your side will give even a Bulawayo or Timbuktu 2020 bid of interest to the esteemed membership. If CT was able to bid for 2004 without much more than sentiment behind it 13 years ago then Durban 2020 will easily grab a goodly chunk of votes 2 years from now...

I quite agree with what you said, Seb. But if Nawal 'speaks the truth' and is quite the insider, then why didn't she say that So. Africa's chances would be greatly increased if they had an insider...or just simply shut up if she had nothing constructive to say? It really appears that she is 'diminishing' RSA's aspirations and chances (to the seeming benefit of her country's Olympic aspirations).

And what does she know about RSA's economy ten years down the line? Is she also a Nostradamus-Warren Buffet-Ben Bernacke??

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Whats the point in comparing the World Cup to the OG?

For years before the SWC we had to hear that the Cricket and Rugby WC were in no way near the scale of the WC,and we knew it, since we were not using those events as a benchmark to host 2010.

But those events were multi-city multi-venue events which large or small are the largest possible multi-city events a city can host to build a reputation in this regard.

I come back to the same question.

Can a South African city produce a bid of a technical standard to rival those who have hosted before it e.g. Rio, London or those who have bid before

A: Yes.

Can a South African city deliver successful Games in 2020?

A: Yes.

Will South Africa win in 2020?

A: Who knows...Africa might only actually win in the 2040's, there is no such guarantee.

Any South African city will be evaluated in the same way any other applicants are.

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I quite agree with what you said, Seb. But if Nawal 'speaks the truth' and is quite the insider, then why didn't she say that So. Africa's chances would be greatly increased if they had an insider...or just simply shut up if she had nothing constructive to say? It really appears that she is 'diminishing' RSA's aspirations and chances (to the seeming benefit of her country's Olympic aspirations).

And what does she know about RSA's economy ten years down the line? Is she also a Nostradamus-Warren Buffet-Ben Bernacke??

Mate, when does a constructive approach ever motivate an IOC member when it comes to their spouting an opinion? If you stacked up every self-aggrandising, ill-advised, unreal media release from the Lausanne bunker you'd have you're own paper mountain ready for a downhill course. And as for Nawal speculating about having an insider do you honestly believe that one of their own kind would give away the main political deal when it comes to securing the games? Just look at what happened to Marc Hodler and Dick Pound...one is dead and the other might as well be when it comes to IOC decision making.

I guess until Rabat officially puts its hat in the ring we must give Nawal some benefit of the doubt (and it does seem particularly crab-like pro-Rabat posturing to diss the entire continent's ability to mount a successful bid when unless there is going to be some huge tectonic shift Morocco is still firmly part of Africa). She doesn't have the ability to project RSA's capabilities 10 years down the track but I think that's a red herring; she does have the ability to see and reflect the unwillingness of the IOC to be drawn into a SA games because the WC was a success. Perhaps with the WOF still alive, Mandela still at the helm of both RSA and the bid and no WC to clutter the minds of Jacques minions then a CT/Jo-burg/Durban bid would have way better prospects.

I honestly believe the main target in Nawal's spiel is not RSA nor Africa...it's FIFA and Sepp Blather.

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