The Maracana Cluster

[DannyelBrazil 703]

The Maracanazinho Gymnasium, the volleyball venue, was built in only 5 months from April to September of 1954. A concrete-franmed structures isn't supposed to be constructed that fast.

Well, the gymnasium is still there...

Received lately the FIFA World Cup Futsal and FIVB World League finals...

Lame.

[Feheva 5]

That's Brazil's problem.

Exactly!

[DannyelBrazil 703]

Exactly!

Yeah Yeah Yeah... Brazil is a country that should be bombed or destroyed by a huge space rock, since nothing here is good... Nothing!!! Right, OTO???

---

Feheva, I totally disagree about your comment that Brazil is putting the World Cup in higher priority than SOG... I really think the organization of the Olympics are in better hands than the World Cup one.

Indeed, probably, we already have more developments in Rio 2016 than about World Cup 2014...

I'm not saying that people in Rio 2016 committee are saints, but if compared to the "cartolas" (soccer/football people)...

Edited May 4, 2010 by DannyelBrazil

[Rafa 43]

Thats a very spread out "cluster".

[OneTimeOnly 171]

Yeah Yeah Yeah... Brazil is a country that should be bombed or destroyed by a huge space rock, since nothing here is good... Nothing!!! Right, OTO???

Who said that? You, not me.

[DannyelBrazil 703]

Who said that? You, not me.

Between the lines you are saying every single post you do

Nothing is good for you in Rio plans, and not only about 2016, in other threads too...

I still don't know why you are here on GamesBids and not in the presidency of IOC!!!

Thats a very spread out "cluster".

I'd say Engenhao is out of this cluster... Since it's almost in the middle way from Maracana to Deodoro Cluster

The other venues in Maracana cluster are not that far...

[Feheva 5]

Yeah Yeah Yeah... Brazil is a country that should be bombed or destroyed by a huge space rock, since nothing here is good... Nothing!!! Right, OTO???

---

Feheva, I totally disagree about your comment that Brazil is putting the World Cup in higher priority than SOG... I really think the organization of the Olympics are in better hands than the World Cup one.

Indeed, probably, we already have more developments in Rio 2016 than about World Cup 2014...

I'm not saying that people in Rio 2016 committee are saints, but if compared to the "cartolas" (soccer/football people)...

I didn't say anything you wrote above. Read carefully my previous posts again and turn "Irony mode" on for the last one.

I'm actually defending your point of view... It's a mater of chronology, not priority or competence...

[DannyelBrazil 703]

I didn't say anything you wrote above. Read carefully my previous posts again and turn "Irony mode" on for the last one.

I'm actually defending your point of view... It's a mater of chronology, not priority or competence...

Hmmm, you agreed with OTO, Feheva, that Brazil's problem (or Maracana one) is World Cup 2014.

If not, I ask apologies for you, but it's clear to me this opinion.

[Feheva 5]

Hmmm, you agreed with OTO, Feheva, that Brazil's problem (or Maracana one) is World Cup 2014.

If not, I ask apologies for you, but it's clear to me this opinion.

It is Brazil's problem, isn't it?!

I wrote 5 words in two posts and you assumed a hole bunch of opinions.

You need start reading carefully.

Post:

OTO - I suggest your planning committee start ripping out seats and reconfiguring now.

My answer:

World Cup 2014...

Means: start reconfiguring seats now would be impossible before World Cup 2014

Then:

Post:

OTO - That's Brazil's problem.

My answer:

Exactly!

Ironically means: Yes, it is Brazil's problem, so whatever you say here changes nothing.

Do you get it now?

[aluz 36]

Thats a very spread out "cluster".

Yes, the most spread out. Actually it is JH stadium which falls out of place. Maracanã, Sambódromo and São Januário make a kind of triangle with 3 km on each side. However, all the venues are permanent and existing. It was defined as a cluster to justify the use of these venues and the cluster was sold as the most densely populated area of the city. If you remember the venue plan presentation, each cluster had a particular social-economic feature to justify its use. It was a way to portray that Rio 2016 will reach all the social groups that make up the population of Rio.

JH stadium, however is well connetced to the OV through the Linha Amarela highway. By the way, unlike what Danny said, it is far from being midway to the Deodoro cluster which is pretty far from there.

[gotosy 493]

By the way, yesterday a proposal to move some new venues to the Port (near Cidade do Samba) was also proposed. They would also be in the Maracanã cluster, around 3.6 km away.

seems that theres a proposal to relocate the media village as well the boxing, weightlifting, table tennis and badminton venues that was originally planned for the Barra Cluster.

are there the available land area in the Port zone as mentioned in the article? would IOC agree with this proposal?

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/rio2016/mat/2010/05/02/prefeitura-do-rio-pedira-ao-coi-transferencia-de-instalacoes-dos-jogos-olimpicos-objetivo-revitalizar-regiao-central-916480149.asp

[aluz 36]

seems that theres a proposal to relocate the media village as well the boxing, weightlifting, table tennis and badminton venues that was originally planned for the Barra Cluster.

are there the available land area in the Port zone as mentioned in the article? would IOC agree with this proposal?

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/rio2016/mat/2010/05/02/prefeitura-do-rio-pedira-ao-coi-transferencia-de-instalacoes-dos-jogos-olimpicos-objetivo-revitalizar-regiao-central-916480149.asp

That's the proposal that I meant. Apparently those venues would be moved to old warehouses and to the structures used to build the cars for the Carnival parade. However, I think it would have a dreadful impact on travel times for athletes.

[Dinhu4ever 27]

Yes, the most spread out. Actually it is JH stadium which falls out of place. Maracanã, Sambódromo and São Januário make a kind of triangle with 3 km on each side. However, all the venues are permanent and existing. It was defined as a cluster to justify the use of these venues and the cluster was sold as the most densely populated area of the city. If you remember the venue plan presentation, each cluster had a particular social-economic feature to justify its use. It was a way to portray that Rio 2016 will reach all the social groups that make up the population of Rio.

JH stadium, however is well connetced to the OV through the Linha Amarela highway. By the way, unlike what Danny said, it is far from being midway to the Deodoro cluster which is pretty far from there.

While Deodoro is pretty pretty far from JH, they (and Maracanã, Sambadrome and São Januário/São Cristovão) are connected through Supervia trains. Even though the Deodoro line is the stopper, I believe an express line will be developed to connect both clusters.

[OneTimeOnly 171]

seems that theres a proposal to relocate the media village as well the boxing, weightlifting, table tennis and badminton venues that was originally planned for the Barra Cluster.

are there the available land area in the Port zone as mentioned in the article? would IOC agree with this proposal?

http://oglobo.globo.com/rio/rio2016/mat/2010/05/02/prefeitura-do-rio-pedira-ao-coi-transferencia-de-instalacoes-dos-jogos-olimpicos-objetivo-revitalizar-regiao-central-916480149.asp

The Barra Cluster is the best one! WTF? What for?

And the Rio bid starts to go haywire.....already.

[DannyelBrazil 703]

JH stadium, however is well connetced to the OV through the Linha Amarela highway. By the way, unlike what Danny said, it is far from being midway to the Deodoro cluster which is pretty far from there.

I was meant to say it's in the way, not near... But of course, it's more near of Maracana venues than Deodoro ones... Much more near.

It is Brazil's problem, isn't it?!

I wrote 5 words in two posts and you assumed a hole bunch of opinions.

You need start reading carefully.

I told you guys so. I don't get sarcasm and irony in English. And, it's preety useless in tough discussions with ******* people here.

But now I get 100%, what you said, Feheva, and I ask apologies again to you.

You don't need to draw it...

Edited May 5, 2010 by DannyelBrazil

[Dinhu4ever 27]

The Barra Cluster is the best one! WTF? What for?

And the Rio bid starts to go haywire.....already.

Actually, the Barra Cluster is the major target of criticism from most of the urban planners in Rio. They believe is totally dumb to concentrate so many sports in just one cluster to accommodate the interests of real state funds. This is. in my opinion, a rather simplistic view. Sure, real state money played a big part on why most things were build there for the PanAm and will be built for the OG, but there's a lot of space there and the area is easily connected with most parts of the city.

However, I'm quite fond of the idea of relocating certain events and installations to the port area. Travel times will be slightly longer for the athletes, but nothing too drastic. You can easily get from Barra to the Praça Mauá (where the warehouses supposed to be used are located) in under half an hour (of course, considering that an intelligent plan for giving official vehicles priority and exclusive lanes is designed). It's also a great deal for the media personel. That would reduce their travel times to Maracanã and Copacabana clusters significantly.

[DannyelBrazil 703]

Actually, the Barra Cluster is the major target of criticism from most of the urban planners in Rio. They believe is totally dumb to concentrate so many sports in just one cluster to accommodate the interests of real state funds. This is. in my opinion, a rather simplistic view. Sure, real state money played a big part on why most things were build there for the PanAm and will be built for the OG, but there's a lot of space there and the area is easily connected with most parts of the city.

However, I'm quite fond of the idea of relocating certain events and installations to the port area. Travel times will be slightly longer for the athletes, but nothing too drastic. You can easily get from Barra to the Praça Mauá (where the warehouses supposed to be used are located) in under half an hour (of course, considering that an intelligent plan for giving official vehicles priority and exclusive lanes is designed). It's also a great deal for the media personel. That would reduce their travel times to Maracanã and Copacabana clusters significantly.

I really liked the first plan presented. IOC seems to like too... I don't know what interest ($$$, of course) mayor Paes have on Port Area, since he wants to change everything to there.

I'm favourable to send some minor venues to there, for example, to build a multi-event arena in Port Area, that later can be used for shows and events. During the games could host the basketball matches... This would be nice...

Barra is far, ok, but it's a place that can be controled about security, since there are few entrances and the Olympic Village in Barra Cluster IMO is the best choice.

Edited May 5, 2010 by DannyelBrazil

[aluz 36]

Actually, the Barra Cluster is the major target of criticism from most of the urban planners in Rio. They believe is totally dumb to concentrate so many sports in just one cluster to accommodate the interests of real state funds. This is. in my opinion, a rather simplistic view. Sure, real state money played a big part on why most things were build there for the PanAm and will be built for the OG, but there's a lot of space there and the area is easily connected with most parts of the city.

However, I'm quite fond of the idea of relocating certain events and installations to the port area. Travel times will be slightly longer for the athletes, but nothing too drastic. You can easily get from Barra to the Praça Mauá (where the warehouses supposed to be used are located) in under half an hour (of course, considering that an intelligent plan for giving official vehicles priority and exclusive lanes is designed). It's also a great deal for the media personel. That would reduce their travel times to Maracanã and Copacabana clusters significantly.

The problem with the urbanists is that they do not consider the financial aspect of it. The choice of Barra is the most logical due to several issues. First, no place can hold more events than Barra, since Rio Centro, Maria Lenk and the HSBC Arena are all there. Second, the area is one of the few places where you can build and easily sell a residential compound to the middle class, which will attract private investors, saving government money to build an OV. Third, it is in an area where it would be easier to implement a security plan.

However, the mayor has great expectations in the Port and wants to promote this change. Indeed, the renovation of the Port area will yield much more dividends to the city than the investments in Barra. However, the Port is mostly a bet and it is not clear if the area will be a successful business or residential pole. It seems more likely that it will become a comercial area, since it is adjacent to the downtown Rio, which has nowhere to grow. So, the decision to move events to the Port might be interesting, but it will be more expensive.

Looking at the aspect of the mobility of athletes and media, the move to Port will be irrelevant to the media, but will increase by more than 10% the average travelling time for the athletes. So, it is a significant change especially for the events planned to be moved, which in several cases demand a big number of athletes to be transported early in the morning. To worsen the situation, there are not solid plans regarding mass transit to the Port. In the Olympic proposal, the plan to build a tram line was not mentioned and there are no BRT or subway lines reaching the Port.

[DannyelBrazil 703]

My biggest fear is about the discussion... They can't lose years deciding if Port or Barra is better... This should be a quick decision, and IMO the decision was already taken when Rio won with the current project (more Barra less Port).

[aluz 36]

My biggest fear is about the discussion... They can't lose years deciding if Port or Barra is better... This should be a quick decision, and IMO the decision was already taken when Rio won with the current project (more Barra less Port).

They are not. They have already come up with the plan and it will be pitched to the IOC in the next meeting. If the IOC accept it, changes will be made, otherwise the original plan will be implemented.

[DannyelBrazil 703]

They are not. They have already come up with the plan and it will be pitched to the IOC in the next meeting. If the IOC accept it, changes will be made, otherwise the original plan will be implemented.

I hope in any case that the defeated people accept it and don't come in few months with a new plan and new arguments.

[Rafa 43]

If 3-7km away can form a cluster, then in Cape Town we could have lots of venues in a "cluster".

[DannyelBrazil 703]

If 3-7km away can form a cluster, then in Cape Town we could have lots of venues in a "cluster".

I really don't know the area of Cape Town, but Rio de Janeiro area is little bit big...

To go from Downtown to the Grumari beach (both inside Rio city) is more than 60 Km driving...

And Rio is a very spread city since we have mountains and an entire national park in the very middle of the city.

Also we can not forget that Rio have lots of lagoons, rocks, hills and a curvy shore... All of this makes lenghts bigger

Edited May 5, 2010 by DannyelBrazil

[Rafa 43]

I'm not saying its a bad thing at all. Each city has its own topographical /geographical characteristics.

I'm just saying that in a cluster e.g. Maracana, not divided by a mountain or a geographical feature, that venues 3-7km away can form a cluster, just means that in Cape Town e.g. venues in the Southern Suburbs, could be considered a cluster.

[DannyelBrazil 703]

I'm not saying its a bad thing at all. Each city has its own topographical /geographical characteristics.

I'm just saying that in a cluster e.g. Maracana, not divided by a mountain or a geographical feature, that venues 3-7km away can form a cluster, just means that in Cape Town e.g. venues in the Southern Suburbs, could be considered a cluster.

I understand you Mo. I didn't see your comment as a critic

I think Engenhao was placed in a far and isolated area (about having other sports venues near). I never understand why don't they build the Olympic Stadium in Barra... Well, it's already past.

But the other venues in Maracana Cluster are not that far.

Sambadrome, for example is just 5-10 minutes by car far from Maracana. Or Sailing will take place in Marina da Gloria, just 10-15 minutes far by car, from Maracana...

The same can be told about Copacabana Cluster the lenghts can be done in less than 10-15 minutes...