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Get it through their heads: Maracna will never be a true Olympic Stadium.

This is true, it won't be. Brazil and Rio's Olympic Stadium will be Jao Havelange, but a lame, second rate one, since it will not have also held the ceremonies. The ONLY way for Brazil and Rio to have a true Olympic stadium would be for them to have ONE stadium for both the Athletics *and* the ceremonies. Unfortunately, we all know that is NOT going to happen.

Thinking about the stadiums for Olympic Ceremonies. The tradition was already broken or bended.

Athens 1896 had its ceremonies in Panathinaiko Stadium, a venue that have a different shape in comparision with the now-a-days stadia.

More, the athletics competitions changed a lot (no more "pass-through-barrels" for races), even the distance of so-traditional Marathon was changed to make British people and royal court happy (for me, much worse than sending ceremonies to Maracana).

If we go deep on olympic traditions, the games should be held every 4 years in Athens with no soccer, no sailing, no table tennis, no basketball and also no war in the World during the games.

More rationalizations to make Rio feel better.

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I think the fact that the IOC have given it's approval for it to be the olympic stadium sort of defeats your argument.

By checking wikipedia and other media online, Maracana has been considered the Olympic Stadium for the games over Joao Havelange...

This will generate lots of polemics... Hope to IOC make a clear position soon. Which one is the Olympic Stadium? Both? None? Maracana?

IOC will say it so. Meanwhile, all said here are only opinions.

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Won't be complaining about Joao Havelange hosting ceremonies because its capacity is slightly larger than Barcelona's Olympic Stadium. And it should not make perfect sense to hold Olympic ceremonies in a football-only stadium, whether it's larger or smaller than the athletics venue. If there is no ceremonies for Maracana, then the cauldron should not be at Maracana. They sould be reserved for the Engenhao Stadium only. Also, coming up with excuses about this will get us nowhere. If Maracana does host Olympic ceremonies, then a curse will be put on any future Olympic City, especially one who has a football-only stadium and no large multipurpose athletics stadium.

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Won't be complaining about Joao Havelange hosting ceremonies because its capacity is slightly larger than Barcelona's Olympic Stadium. And it should not make perfect sense to hold Olympic ceremonies in a football-only stadium, whether it's larger or smaller than the athletics venue. If there is no ceremonies for Maracana, then the cauldron should not be at Maracana. They sould be reserved for the Engenhao Stadium only. Also, coming up with excuses about this will get us nowhere. If Maracana does host Olympic ceremonies, then a curse will be put on any future Olympic City, especially one who has a football-only stadium and no large multipurpose athletics stadium.

Go away.

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Won't be complaining about Joao Havelange hosting ceremonies because its capacity is slightly larger than Barcelona's Olympic Stadium. And it should not make perfect sense to hold Olympic ceremonies in a football-only stadium, whether it's larger or smaller than the athletics venue. If there is no ceremonies for Maracana, then the cauldron should not be at Maracana. They sould be reserved for the Engenhao Stadium only. Also, coming up with excuses about this will get us nowhere. If Maracana does host Olympic ceremonies, then a curse will be put on any future Olympic City, especially one who has a football-only stadium and no large multipurpose athletics stadium.

You mean like...errrrrr......London?

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then a curse will be put on any future Olympic City, especially one who has a football-only stadium and no large multipurpose athletics stadium.

And so what? We already had things like this in other multi-sports events related to IOC.

Indianapolis Speedway hosted opening ceremonies for the PanAmerican games! And if you watch the footage, the Olympic flag was there in the ceremony! In a motorsports venue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

At least soccer is part of Olympic programme and soccer is played in a stadium, not in a speedway.

And, gosh, Mickey Mouse was the theme of the ceremony!!!

You know what? It was great! Very american and in a meaningful place for that host. I don't care, really.

Many people abroad will love to see the ceremonies in Maracana. You're probably american, so soccer is irrelevant, but for many, Maracana is a sports temple, hosted many sports there (yes, not only soccer) and it's so meaningful for Brazil.

Just because the stadium does not have an athletics path, you can't make a lot of stupid arguments.

Stop complaining. You will not change this.

IOC already decided.

Ease up guys, I think Jim20329u34233248 knows what is right more than the IOC and ROCOG... DUH!!

LOL!

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I've said this before and I'll say it again: Rio KNEW it was going to be bidding for the 2016 Olympic Games when it built Jao Havelange. It should have also known what the traditional requirements were for an Olympic Stadium. Seems to me they built the least they could to get by, coupled with this attitude of disregard for Olympic Stadium tradition because some asswipes in the Rio Organizing committee wanted to hold the ceremonies in Maracrapa. Rio having two stadiums is either typical Brazilian incompetence, or Brazilian hubris, or more likely, BOTH.

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Or they didn't see any need for a very large athletics stadium, so built one which could be expanded to IOC requirements if they won an Olympic bid, but would stay at 45,000 otherwise?

The JHS is not too small for Olympic ceremonies at its expanded capacity and I'd imagine Rio 2016 were in dialogue with the IOC throughout as to whether to repeat their PanAms plan or stick to tradition. In the end the PanAms plan won the day, but if the IOC didn't like it they could easily have forced Rio to change tac. As Jim rightly points out, ceremonies have taken place in similar sized stadiums before, so it's not like Rio built anything too small. Rio has the stadiums the city needs, and the IOC is happy enough for the ceremonies to be in the bigger of the stadiums.

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Or they didn't see any need for a very large athletics stadium, so built one which could be expanded to IOC requirements if they won an Olympic bid, but would stay at 45,000 otherwise?

The JHS is not too small for Olympic ceremonies at its expanded capacity and I'd imagine Rio 2016 were in dialogue with the IOC throughout as to whether to repeat their PanAms plan or stick to tradition. In the end the PanAms plan won the day, but if the IOC didn't like it they could easily have forced Rio to change tac. As Jim rightly points out, ceremonies have taken place in similar sized stadiums before, so it's not like Rio built anything too small. Rio has the stadiums the city needs, and the IOC is happy enough for the ceremonies to be in the bigger of the stadiums.

I'd wager, however, that even though JHS meets IAAF requirements for Athletic competitions, the IOC knew that even an expanded JHS would not be enough for the amount of demand there would be for OC tickets, so they merely conceded to having the OC's in Maracrapa because at that point, they had no other choice in terms of a stadium that could handle the expected demand for tickets. Everyone wants to try to say that the IOC really likes this idea, which, I doubt. I really think it was more of a concession on the IOC's part.

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I'd wager, however, that even though JHS meets IAAF requirements for Athletic competitions, the IOC knew that even an expanded JHS would not be enough for the amount of demand there would be for OC tickets, so they merely conceded to having the OC's in Maracrapa because at that point, they had no other choice in terms of a stadium that could handle the expected demand for tickets. Everyone wants to try to say that the IOC really likes this idea, which, I doubt. I really think it was more of a concession on the IOC's part.

You might be right, but it was obviously a concession they were more than willing to make given the landslide victory Rio eventually enjoyed.

I'm not particularly enamoured with the two stadium plan, but I don't think it's down to hubris or incompetence and nobody but Jim thinks it'll RUIN these Games. :lol:

Few hosts in the future will find themselves in the position of Rio - having to quickly build an athletics stadium for an upcoming regional Games, possibly keeping in mind IOC minimum requirements for athletics with half an eye on a future Olympic bid but with that only as a very distant pipe dream given your continent's previous bidding history, whilst at the same time having an already exisiting stadium which is bigger than any athletics stadium your city will ever need. It's quite a unique situation.

That's why I think Jim's fear of this being a blueprint for future cities (he used the word curse rather than blueprint) is wrong. Most cities will build a brand new stadium, either permanent of downsizeable or renovate an existing stadium - and in both cases the cities will make sure the stadium is big enough for ceremonies and athletics. Rio made sure their stadium was big enough for athletics, but with the Maracana already in existance didn't need to go any bigger than a 45,000 stadium expandable to 60,000. It would have been beyond the city's needs.

As for demand, an Olympic Opening Ceremony could sell out a 200,000 seat stadium easily. No stadium will ever be big enough for such an event. The IOC chose more money ahead of tradition - but that needn't be a problem if things are worked out ok, though I'm concerned about how the cauldron situation will play out.

Do you think, if Barcelona had offered the Nou Camp for ceremonies or London Wembley, or Mexico City the Azteca, the IOC would have done the same? Perhaps not in London's case as the difference in capacities certainly doesn't outweigh the convience of the Olympic stadium as a venue, but in other cases it's interesting to contemplate.

Edited by RobH
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You might be right, but it was obviously a concession they were more than willing to make given the landslide victory Rio eventually enjoyed.

I'm not particularly enamoured with the two stadium plan, but I don't think it's down to hubris or incompetence and nobody but Jim thinks it'll RUIN these Games. :lol:

Few hosts in the future will find themselves in the position of Rio - having to quickly build an athletics stadium for an upcoming regional Games, possibly keeping in mind IOC minimum requirements for athletics with half an eye on a future Olympic bid but with that only as a very distant pipe dream given your continent's previous bidding history, whilst at the same time having an already exisiting stadium which is bigger than any athletics stadium your city will ever need. It's quite a unique situation.

That's why I think Jim's fear of this being a blueprint for future cities (he used the word curse rather than blueprint) is wrong. Most cities will build a brand new stadium, either permanent of downsizeable or renovate an existing stadium - and in both cases the cities will make sure the stadium is big enough for ceremonies and athletics. Rio made sure their stadium was big enough for athletics, but with the Maracana already in existance didn't need to go any bigger than a 45,000 stadium expandable to 60,000. It would have been beyond the city's needs.

As for demand, an Olympic Opening Ceremony could sell out a 200,000 seat stadium easily. No stadium will ever be big enough for such an event. The IOC chose more money ahead of tradition - but that needn't be a problem if things are worked out ok, though I'm concerned about how the cauldron situation will play out.

Do you think, if Barcelona had offered the Nou Camp for ceremonies or London Wembley, or Mexico City the Azteca, the IOC would have done the same? Perhaps not in London's case as the difference in capacities certainly doesn't outweigh the convience of the Olympic stadium as a venue, but in other cases it's interesting to contemplate.

Great post.

And about the post you've quote, RobH, the person who called Brazil hubris about building a stadium is totally out-of-this-world. To say that meanwhile the country is building 14 new ones at this very moment seems childhood.laugh.gif

Not 12, it's 14, because Palmeiras and Gremio are also building stadiums that won't be part of the World Cup.

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Great post.

And about the post you've quote, RobH, the person who called Brazil hubris about building a stadium is totally out-of-this-world. To say that meanwhile the country is building 14 new ones at this very moment seems childhood.laugh.gif

Not 12, it's 14, because Palmeiras and Gremio are also building stadiums that won't be part of the World Cup.

Hubris in that the OC's MUST be in Maracana, just because it's some bullshit soccer stadium.

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  • 2 weeks later...

If they left it there on the field, then that would've blocked off a whole section of seats??

There was an water cascade behind the cauldron. I'm seeking for pics. Soon I'll post it. I've been there and had no viewing problems due the cauldron.

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  • 2 weeks later...

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